Do you know that Dennis Kucinich introduced articles of Impeachment against George Bush :last night?

I think it’s a shame they only air what their corporate elite landlords tell them to air. Truth is being hijacked and sheeple are in a dense fog.

I did know that and I’m torn. While I agree with it in principle, strategically it may not be the best angle for Democrats trying to win over moderates & independents in November.

I think it’s seven years too late…

I saw the headline as a “related story” on http://washingtonpost.com, but couldn’t find it later when I was ready to click-through. Do you have a link you can share?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/09/AR2008060902427.html

I feel it our duty to impeach. January is a very long time away, and all the groundwork has been set. All they need is something big to happen and we are really screwed. Get them out before they do something stupid. They have set themselves up with many options.

Seven years late is right. I hadn’t heard yet, but it’s not too surprising as I avoid most news media when I can, though I had been assaulted by some news involuntarily on http://yahoo.com today, and only learned that a Sudanese airplane had caught fire and about 100 humans died. Oh and I caught some unintentional news while looking for a weather forecast – of another fire – a nice historical building in Lyndon, Washington.

No I hadn’t heard about it yet. Thanks for sharing. As for “If you have not heard about it yet, how do you feel that you have not heard about it yet?” – I have been really busy the last two days and have kept contact to the world to a minimum (no, seriously).

You haven’t heard about it yet because it’s barely news. Even the democrats want nothing to do with this.

For those who refuse to watch mainstream news and are for an impeachment of Bush, out of curiosity, where do you get your news?

@CameraObscura did you not see the link to the Washington Post PupnTaco posted

I see mainstream news as crap entertainment noise. I get most of it from Steven Colbert, which is one of the most enjoyable sources from a relieving perspective. If I actually care to know about something, or what’s going on, I survey the Internet and pull from multiple sources, favoring mostly European sources, and if I really care, I discuss with friends and other contacts.

Kucinich tried the same thing about a year ago against Cheney. The Dems. didn’t want anything to do with that one or this one. With Cheney, when the Reps. wanted to debate about it, Kucinich withdrew it. He’s just making a statement way to late to do anything.

Did you hear that Kucinich is the biggest looney in Congress? Kucinich is a straight socialist. Our government was intended to be a capitalist federal republic, not a socialist haven. If you want more Dennis Kucinich look to Europe.

Its absolutely rediculous, W has done NOTHING to deserve this. Sure even I, a die hard conservative, would agree that Bush has made many mistakes. But crap like this epitomizes the anti American sentiment held by the left. Most would consider consider Kucinich

a Marxist anyways.

@ Zaku: ppl like you are what’s wrong with this country. Looking to Europe for American news? That makes no sense, since a vast majority of the European press is absolutely hates america, their takes are VERY bias. As for colbert he’s a joke, its fake, he’s a lib comedian making fun of true journalist

@khelms01: Was it anti-American for Bob Barr and company to impeach President Clinton over a blowjob?

@khelms01 oh man there are so many things to laugh at in your THREE back to back posts.

“W has done NOTHING to deserve this” i almost died of laughter when i read this.

Zaku is right however though you can get a better idea of whats going on in America from the Europeans than you can from American news source. Have you heard about the latest war report. You know the one that states that Bush, Cheney, and a lot of other higher ups exaggerated facts and just made stuff up to get us into this war. Hmm, no? You havent? Oh wait thats right. BECAUSE NONE OF OUR FUCKING NEWS SOURCES CARED TO MENTION IT. One did, (i forget who at the moment) but they didnt even say what the report found. That is why we look to other news sources to find out whats going on. Our media is too busy trying to find out what kind of toilet paper Britney Spears uses to tell us about whats actually going on in our god damn country.

“European press is absolutely hates america” Ever wonder why?

@ khelms – take a look at the specific charges listed in Kucinich’s presentation. I’d be curious if a “die-hard conservative” would find much to argue against.

weird! I fell asleep with CNN on, but was up till 5 something, and I didn’t hear about it!

oh well, why impeach him now? It’s just a big waste of energy. He is a lame duck President, is he not?

@ everyone who uses european sources for your news – would you mind sharing your favorite european news sites? (i agree with you, i just want to know which sites are good, so i can use them too!)

I’m a conservative that thought impeaching Clinton was not a productive course. Like khelms said he has made alot of mistakes but the reason democrats WITH a majority in congress have not tried impeaching him is they know it’s a fringe liberal issue. Clinton flitted around in Iraq, Haiti, Kosovo, and Somalia and lost men too.

The issue that people should be worrying about is that EVERY president is having us go and be the world police instead of first being tough on enemies of the United States before going to war. Unfortunately Europe doesn’t help with issues like Oil for Food in Iraq, dealings with Iran, etc..

If Bush should be criticized for something it’s that the people in charge of the war weren’t fully prepared to deal with what the war was. Had we adapted to our problems and fixed what needed to be fixed, it would only be fringe democrats i.e. people that vote for Barbara Boxer and Dennis Kucinich that would be angry.

I use several sources for news. Every article I seem to find important, always ends up on http://rawstory.com. It was even mentioned several times during Kucinich’s speech. I read about Scott McClellan about six months ago via that site. No mass media reported on it, so he was forced to write a book.

@khelms01: Actually neither CameraObscura nor I mentioned looking for news about America but I would be interested in European news sources for that since I’d generalize that it would tend to be more intelligent and less invested in agendas. I find Canadian news preferable as well. It’s interesting that you’d read that in. One almost has to look to foreign sources to find information about anything outside America, which would be, most of the world…
As for Colbert, of course he’s a comedian but I’m able to factor that in (whoa, radical huh?) and I find him to be a superior journalist and source of information compared to American TV news in general.

@ chris – thanks! i really like that site :)

I’m just appreciating the discussion on this. Appreciating the passionately held views – and so different! Amazing. Curious to see if khelms will respond.

Its facinating to find out that there really are individuals who feel like khelms. Although I have to say that I never met any. Incredible.

@khelms

Please explain your conservative values.

I recently heard something I liked, ” republicans are now liberal, and democrats are now socialists.”

I certainly can’t speak for those of you who’ve expressed interest in recieving alternate, European sources of news but at some point you’ve really got to ask yourself whether it’s news, or reinforcement you seek.

We’ve already got a liberal, agenda driven media in the United States and the idea that it’s not quite leftist enough may say something as to your interest in recieving genuine “news” versus talking points and ammunition for your already leftist views.

Again, I’m not trying to specifically implicate anyone here (as I don’t know you) but
really… http://www.rawstory.com’s (the only link posted) top three articles consist of two pro-Bush impeachment and one anti-Walmart stories… none of which make the front page of the lefty New York Times, hence “barely news”.

If you don’t even attempt to diversify your news, your world is going to look awfully small (and in the case of liberal news, pathetic and grim) and anyone with a genuine interest in politics will see through it.

@ trustinglife What is there to respond to, its just typical lib rhetoric. If u think your’re worldview is the majority then u are vastly mistaken, where do u live San Fran, Berkley, or Austin. The shortsightedness of the American left is what’s going to destroy this GREAT country.

as for European news media if u don’t think they’re agenda driven and anti American then u are incredibly naive

@ khelms: let me know if you get a chance to review those specific charges. I mean, really read them and find something specific you object to.

@ khelms, I’m genuinely curious: what do you love so much about our country?

I love the fact that u can come from nothing and become whatever u want to be. Its impossible to fail in this Capitalist country if u make the correct choices and have PERSONAL RESPONSIBLITY. I’m sure u would be much more in favor of a socailist, cradle to grave government hand out sociaty.

Trustinglife, are you implying there’s not much to love?

@Camera, I realized after I posted the question that it was probably going to be misconstrued, so I appreciate your checking it out with me.

I think there is plenty to love about our country. Just that we can have this discussion in freedom is a privilege that many people throughout the world would love to have. The reason I asked is khelms referred to how great this country is in each of his answers, and I wanted to hear some more about why he thought that. I’m sure we each have different perspectives on what makes this country great.

and yet u still failed to mention a single thing u love about this country… Typical leftist

If you read my post again, you would see that I wrote the following: “Just that we can have this discussion in freedom is a privilege that many people throughout the world would love to have.” Maybe I needed to spell it out more clearly that this is something that I appreciate about our country.

Freedom of expression is one of the things I most value about our country. The president you defend has eroded that freedom by removing habeas corpus, among other things.

You said, “Its impossible to fail in this Capitalist country if u make the correct choices and have PERSONAL RESPONSIBLITY.” You said earlier that W did nothing to deserve this – do you have any evidence for this? The president you defend has been charged with impeachment. That is a serious accusation. Do you have any real response, or are you going to continue using names like “typical leftist, marxist, socialist” and accuse me of ruining our nation?

@ khelms: I’ll make it easy, here’s the text of the articles of impeachment against Bush. Let us know which ones (if any) you believe Bush didn’t do and why.

Article I
Creating a Secret Propaganda Campaign to Manufacture a False Case for War Against Iraq.

Article II
Falsely, Systematically, and with Criminal Intent Conflating the Attacks of September 11, 2001, With Misrepresentation of Iraq as a Security Threat as Part of Fraudulent Justification for a War of Aggression.

Article III
Misleading the American People and Members of Congress to Believe Iraq Possessed Weapons of Mass Destruction, to Manufacture a False Case for War.

Article IV
Misleading the American People and Members of Congress to Believe Iraq Posed an Imminent Threat to the United States.

Article V
Illegally Misspending Funds to Secretly Begin a War of Aggression.

Article VI
Invading Iraq in Violation of the Requirements of H. J. Res114.

Article VII
Invading Iraq Absent a Declaration of War.

Article VIII
Invading Iraq, A Sovereign Nation, in Violation of the UN Charter.

Article IX
Failing to Provide Troops With Body Armor and Vehicle Armor.

Article X
Falsifying Accounts of US Troop Deaths and Injuries for Political Purposes.

Article XI
Establishment of Permanent U.S. Military Bases in Iraq.

Article XII
Initiating a War Against Iraq for Control of That Nation’s Natural Resources.

Article XIIII
Creating a Secret Task Force to Develop Energy and Military Policies With Respect to Iraq and Other Countries.

Article XIV
Misprision of a Felony, Misuse and Exposure of Classified Information And Obstruction of Justice in the Matter of Valerie Plame Wilson, Clandestine Agent of the Central Intelligence Agency.

Article XV
Providing Immunity from Prosecution for Criminal Contractors in Iraq.

Article XVI
Reckless Misspending and Waste of U.S. Tax Dollars in Connection With Iraq and US Contractors.

Article XVII
Illegal Detention: Detaining Indefinitely And Without Charge Persons Both U.S. Citizens and Foreign Captives.

Article XVIII
Torture: Secretly Authorizing, and Encouraging the Use of Torture Against Captives in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Other Places, as a Matter of Official Policy.

Article XIX
Rendition: Kidnapping People and Taking Them Against Their Will to “Black Sites” Located in Other Nations, Including Nations Known to Practice Torture.

Article XX
Imprisoning Children.

Article XXI
Misleading Congress and the American People About Threats from Iran, and Supporting Terrorist Organizations Within Iran, With the Goal of Overthrowing the Iranian Government.

Article XXII
Creating Secret Laws.

Article XXIII
Violation of the Posse Comitatus Act.

Article XXIV
Spying on American Citizens, Without a Court-Ordered Warrant, in Violation of the Law and the Fourth Amendment.

Article XXV
Directing Telecommunications Companies to Create an Illegal and Unconstitutional Database of the Private Telephone Numbers and Emails of American Citizens.

Article XXVI
Announcing the Intent to Violate Laws with Signing Statements.

Article XXVII
Failing to Comply with Congressional Subpoenas and Instructing Former Employees Not to Comply.

Article XXVIII
Tampering with Free and Fair Elections, Corruption of the Administration of Justice.

Article XXIX
Conspiracy to Violate the Voting Rights Act of 1965.

Article XXX
Misleading Congress and the American People in an Attempt to Destroy Medicare.

Article XXXI
Katrina: Failure to Plan for the Predicted Disaster of Hurricane Katrina, Failure to Respond to a Civil Emergency.

Article XXXII
Misleading Congress and the American People, Systematically Undermining Efforts to Address Global Climate Change.

Article XXXIII
Repeatedly Ignored and Failed to Respond to High Level Intelligence Warnings of Planned Terrorist Attacks in the US, Prior to 911.

Article XXXIV
Obstruction of the Investigation into the Attacks of September 11, 2001.

Article XXXV
Endangering the Health of 911 First Responders.

Gotta love those last three. What, what, what?!?!?!

If anyone still had any doubt that Kucinich was a LOON, then all that BS should remove all doubt.

But do you disagree with any specific point, and if so, why? Let’s hear it.

when I get home to my computer I’ll go through each one

I do disagree with ALL of them.

on what grounds?

any of those resolutions that mentions “violation of the rules UN” might as well be saying “violation of the laws of satan” because I hold the UN just about the same level. If the UN and Satan all-stars competed in league bowling I would cheer for them to break out into a war of throwing bowling balls at each others nads.

What do you think is evil about the UN?

@ khelms: thanks for making my point about clear-headed, rational, and intelligent discussion between “conservatives” and the rest of the country.

LOL.

The only point you’ve made is that you’re willing to jump on board with the other people
in this thread who saw an obvious, easy target. It was clear this guy had no substance to back up his argument from his first post. You’re talking big for someone who’s biggest contribution to this thread has been your copy and paste of someone else’s ideas. Bravo to you, sir…you are right. What an outstanding victory transpiring before our eyes for liberals all over America.

Of course there are things I disagree with in Kucinich’s articles. Not everything, but most of it. I don’t have the time or interest to go through and dissect all of them and lay out for you the other half of the country’s military and political philosophy but I’d suggest you consider the idea that perhaps you should already have an understanding of this. I understand the argument behind Kucinich’s point, we just have a completely different philosophy.

Perhaps if you all would put down your liberal rags (which make mainstream news look Reaganistic) and actually make an attempt to understand the other side’s argument and realize that just because your senator/congressman/presidential candidate has a “D” next to his name, he may not always be right about everything. I know republicans are not right about everything. I disagree with most of their social idealology. However, all I see on this site is a group of people so eager to tote the party line and pat each other on the back. Do you (any of you) disagree with anything your democratic politicians support?

“Do you (any of you) disagree with anything your democratic politicians support?”
—- Yes.

Great chatting with you.

The reason I’m still following this question is that I’m interested to try to understand the argument of those who disagree with Kucinich. I’m still waiting.

I don’t belong to any political party and would like to see both the US Democrat and Republican parties dissolved.

I belong to the pirate party!

Wow, so much hostility from the “conservatives” – I’m shocked!

Of course I disagree with Democrats as well. I recognize your attempt at deflection and will restate my question: find one specific contention in Kucinich’s list and tell us why you disagree. Let’s see some reasoning skills from the right.

p.s. It’s “toe the line.”

Loved this…

But leave me out.
~laffin

I see that this is an old thread, but I can’t resist a few marks.

If there were really a liberal bias in the press, how come so many conservatives don’t know about the illegal things George W. has done during his administration or why they are important.

Bruce Fein, the conservative constitutional scholar who wrote the articles of impeachment for Clinton’s impeachment has written new articles of impeachment for George W. Bush, whom he views as a far greater malefactor, because Bush has done more than any president since Nixon to destroy our system of constitutional checks and balances between the Legislative and Executive branches of government.

Fein was interviewed on Bill Moyer’s Journal, where he laid out the very serious charges against Bush and Cheney, and a rationale for why we still need to go ahead with it before Bush leave office. This isn’t so much to blame or punish Bush for his very real crimes (as personally satisfying to me that this would be) as it is to undo the institutional power grab by the Executive Branch and restore the representative democracy that has been usurped from the Legislative Branch.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07132007/profile.html

As you may recall, George W. refers to himself as the “wartime president” and acts as if he is the Commander-in-Chief of the Nation (when, constitutionally, he is only the Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces). This may seem like a trivial picayune difference to blindly loyal conservatives but, if it is not set right, the Presidency will become more and more like a monarchy, the Legislative Branch will become more and more beholden to corporate interests in the military-industrial complex, resulting in an increasingly militarized state, and a military-backed dictatorship down the line.

Currently, over 40% of the military budget is off the books in black-ops type budgets, so the military has already slipped out from under civilian oversight and control, but add to that the suspension of _ habeas corpus_, domestic spying, and laws enabling the President can declare anyone an “enemy” and have them “disappeared” into some place like Guantanamo, we are only one disaster away from martial law and a full-blown dictatorship.

I don’t see how conservatives can say they love this country and remain so oblivious to what is going on. Maybe they think that these new arrangements will lead to smaller government and lower taxes. Well, just wait till they get the bill. We have yet to pay for our trillion dollar Iraq war, and we have just had to cough up $700 billion for a bailout of Wall Street fat cats, plus another $150 billion in earmarks and sweeteners to get folks to go along; so if they think this is going to result in smaller government or lower taxes, they must be smoking some kind of crack.

Unfortunately, any impeachment trial must be held in the Senate, where the Democrats have only a one-vote majority (any one of whom can put the kibosh on the whole thing).

@Monty

GA

You really have a lot to contribute here.

@Monty: Was it $150 billion in earmarks, or $150 million??

billion, with a b. The total cost of the bailout is now up to $850 billion.

Well that’s just sad.