General Question

seazen's avatar

Do the Jews get any preference when it comes to issues of racism?

Asked by seazen (6123points) October 20th, 2010

Antisemitism should include Arabs (Muslims) as well – but it usually refers to the Jewish faith. Anti-Islam, or Islamaphobia is what it’s normally called.

Bigotry, Racism against Blacks and Latinos, Indians and whomever – do the Jews get preferential treatment?

Read this article first by Rupert Murdoch.

The war against the Jews
By RUPERT MURDOCH
18/10/2010
When people see a Jewish prime minister treated badly by an American president, they see a more isolated Jewish state.

We live in a world where there is an ongoing war against the Jews. For the first decades after Israel’s founding, this war was conventional in nature. The goal was straightforward: to use military force to overrun Israel. Well before the Berlin Wall came down, that approach had clearly failed.

Then came phase two: terrorism. Terrorists targeted Israelis both home and abroad – from the massacre of Israeli athletes at Munich to the second intifada.

The terrorists continue to target Jews across the world. But they have not succeeded in bringing down the Israeli government – and they have not weakened Israeli resolve.

Now the war has entered a new phase. This is the soft war that seeks to isolate Israel by delegitimizing it.

The battleground is everywhere: the media, multinational organizations, NGOs. In this war, the aim is to make Israel a pariah.

The result is the curious situation we have today: Israel becomes increasingly ostracized, while Iran – a nation that has made no secret of wishing Israel’s destruction – pursues nuclear weapons loudly, proudly, and without apparent fear of rebuke.

For me, this ongoing war is a fairly obvious fact of life. Every day, the citizens of the Jewish homeland defend themselves against armies of terrorists whose maps spell out the goal they have in mind: a Middle East without Israel. In Europe, Jewish populations increasingly find themselves targeted by people who share that goal. And in the United States, I fear that our foreign policy sometimes emboldens these extremists.

THERE ARE two things that worry me most. First is the disturbing new home that anti-Semitism has found in polite society – especially in Europe. Second is how violence and extremism are encouraged when the world sees Israel’s greatest ally distancing itself from the Jewish state.

When Americans think of anti-Semitism, we tend to think of the vulgar caricatures and attacks of the first part of the 20th century.

Today it seems that the most virulent strains come from the Left. Often this new anti-Semitism dresses itself up as legitimate disagreement with Israel.

Back in 2002 the president of Harvard, Larry Summers, put it this way: “Where anti-Semitism and views that are profoundly anti-Israeli have traditionally been the primary preserve of poorly educated rightwing populists, profoundly anti-Israel views are increasingly finding support in progressive intellectual communities. Serious and thoughtful people are advocating and taking actions that are anti-Semitic in their effect if not their intent.”

Mr. Summers was speaking mostly about our university campuses. Like me, however, he was also struck by alarming developments in Europe.

Far from being dismissed out of hand, anti-Semitism today enjoys support at both the highest and lowest reaches of European society – from its most elite politicians to its largely Muslim ghettoes. European Jews find themselves caught in this pincer.

We saw a recent outbreak when a European Commissioner trade minister declared that peace in the Middle East is impossible because of the Jewish lobby in America. Here’s how he put it: “There is indeed a belief – it’s difficult to describe it otherwise – among most Jews that they are right. And it’s not so much whether these are religious Jews or not. Lay Jews also share the same belief that they are right. So it is not easy to have, even with moderate Jews, a rational discussion about what is actually happening in the Middle East.”

This minister did not suggest the problem was any specific Israeli policy. The problem, as he defined it, is the nature of the Jews. Adding to the absurdity, this man then responded to his critics this way: Anti-Semitism, he asserted, “has no place in today’s world and is fundamentally against our European values.”

Of course, he has kept his job.

Unfortunately, we see examples like this one all across Europe. Sweden, for example, has long been a synonym for liberal tolerance. Yet in one of Sweden’s largest cities, Malmo, Jews report increasing examples of harassment. When an Israeli tennis team visited for a competition, it was greeted with riots. So how did the mayor respond? By equating Zionism with anti- Semitism – and suggesting that Swedish Jews would be safer in his town if they distanced themselves from Israeli actions in Gaza.

You don’t have to look far for other danger signs: The Norwegian government forbids a Norwegianbased, German shipbuilder from using its waters to test a submarine being built for the Israeli navy.

Britain and Spain are boycotting an OECD tourism meeting in Jerusalem.

In the Netherlands, police report a 50 percent increase in the number of anti-Semitic incidents.

MAYBE WE shouldn’t be surprised by these things.

According to one infamous European poll a few years back, Europeans listed Israel ahead of Iran and North Korea as the greatest threat to world peace.

In Europe today, some of the most egregious attacks on Jewish people, Jewish symbols, and Jewish houses of worship have come from the Muslim population.

Unfortunately, far from making clear that such behavior will not be tolerated, too often the official response is what we’ve seen from the Swedish mayor – who suggested Jews and Israel were partly to blame themselves.

When Europe’s political leaders do not stand up to the thugs, they lend credence to the idea that Israel is the source of all the world’s problems – and they guarantee more ugliness. If that is not anti-Semitism, I don’t know what is.

That brings me to my second point: the importance of good relations between Israel and the United States.

Some believe that if America wants to gain credibility in the Muslim world and advance the cause of peace, Washington needs to put some distance between itself and Israel. My view is the opposite. Far from making peace more possible, we are making hostilities more certain. Far from making things better for the Palestinian people, sour relations between the United States and Israel guarantees that ordinary Palestinians will continue to suffer.

The peace we all want will come when Israel feels secure – not when Washington feels distant.

Right now we have war. There are many people waging this war. Some blow up cafes. Some fire rockets into civilian areas. Some are pursuing nuclear arms. Some are fighting the soft war, through international boycotts and resolutions condemning Israel. All these people are watching the US-Israeli relationship closely.

In this regard, I was pleased to hear the State Department’s spokesman clarify America’s position last week. He said that the United States recognizes “the special nature of the Israeli state. It is a state for the Jewish people.”

This is an important message to send to the Middle East. And when people see a Jewish prime minister treated badly by an American president, they see a more isolated Jewish state. That only encourages those who favor the gun over those who favor negotiation.

Back in 1937, a man named Vladimir Jabotinsky urged Britain to open up an escape route for Jews fleeing Europe. Only a Jewish homeland, he said, could protect European Jews from the coming calamity.

In prophetic words, he described the problem this way: “It is not the anti-Semitism of men,” he said. “It is, above all, the anti-Semitism of things, the inherent xenophobia of the body social or the body economic under which we suffer.”

The world of 2010 is not the world of the 1930s. The threats Jews face today are different. But these threats are real. These threats are soaked in an ugly language familiar to anyone old enough to remember World War II. And these threats cannot be addressed until we see them for what they are: part of an ongoing war against the Jews.

Edited from a speech Rupert Murdoch gave in New York last Wednesday at an Anti-Defamation League dinner.

Your thoughts?

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17 Answers

The_Idler's avatar

Anti-Israeli govt. =/= Antisemetism (i.e. “Anti-Jew”)

All the Jews/Israelis I’ve ever met disagreed with a lot of the internationally contentious behaviours of the Israeli Govt.

And, also, Murdoch? I wouldn’t trust anything he says, he’s a natural power-monger. Sounds like he’s buddies with the expansionist Israeli politicians.

jaytkay's avatar

Opposing apartheid, ethnic cleansing and collective punishment isn’t Antisemitism.

Yes, there is a surplus of Klan-worthy eliminationist belief and action among Palestinians and other Muslims.

But that doesn’t excuse the Israeli right-wing.

seazen's avatar

A quote from the article, and one I find relevant and pertinent here: “Back in 2002 the president of Harvard, Larry Summers, put it this way: “Where anti-Semitism and views that are profoundly anti-Israeli have traditionally been the primary preserve of poorly educated rightwing populists, profoundly anti-Israel views are increasingly finding support in progressive intellectual communities. Serious and thoughtful people are advocating and taking actions that are anti-Semitic in their effect if not their intent.”

LostInParadise's avatar

As mentioned above, you have to distinguish between anti-Semitism and opposition to Israel. As an ally and Western nation, Israel comes in for added criticism for trying to maintain a Jewish state. Adding to the difficulties is the fact that Israel has a large and growing Arab population that is projected to eventually be in the majority. What will Israel do then? It will have a choice between being a Jewish state and remaining a democracy.

cazzie's avatar

I don’t agree that being anti-Israel makes you an anti-Semite. If you take the religion out of it, you simply have a group of people that have occupied and forcefully taken over a tract of land and displaced and mistreated the group whose land it was. Since when does an ethnicity give you the right to do that?

The_Idler's avatar

@cazzie The problem is that you can’t take the religion out of it. The whole justification for expansion is based on Deus Vult, just like Jihad and the Crusades, all of which are, for that reason, anathema to the civilized world (i.e. violence based on warped, contrived logic).

I really think there is a big problem with expansionist Zionists accusing their political opponents of racism. Seeing as the most infamous man and organization of the century were anti-semetic, there are serious implications to such accusations, especially when they are utterly unjustified and contrived to be simply an ad hominem in politics.

This card has been played over and over, and people are conscious enough to realise it. It’s either a filthy tactic, or extreme paranoia, and whichever it is, I wouldn’t want these kind of people anywhere near nuclear weapons, especially not within a stone’s throw of the prophecised locale of the Battle of Armageddon. Makes me nervous.

————

Justifying actions via Deus Vult? Playing the racism card as if it were a “Yo Mamma” insult?
Expect to be opposed by “progressive intellectual communities” & “Serious and thoughtful people”

————

Just think about all these arguments, they’re all just jumping from [Lots of thinking people are now “anti-Israel”] to [anti-semitism is rampant amongst the liberal intelligentsia!]

All they’re saying is:
“If you don’t support the Israeli Govt, you are an anti-Semite, whether you mean to be or not”

i.e. “anti-Semitic in their effect if not their intent.”

Now, sorry for not making the ‘leap’, but someone is going to have to explain that logic to me, because I’m confused about all the anti-Semitic Jews I’ve met….

flutherother's avatar

Legitimate disagreement with Israel is often anti -Semitism dressed up says Mr Murdoch. Now that is a large part of the problem. I can understand why Jewish people are extremely touchy and defensive of their country given the history of the last century but they have a country now and they should respect UN resolutions. Where they do not follow internationally agreed rules they can expect criticism, like any other country, and calling it anti -Semitism just doesn’t wash.

cazzie's avatar

@The_Idler hear hear. Well said.

Flavio's avatar

There is no doubt that anti-semitism is alive and well. The decrease in pogroms etc has more to do with the growing political clout of jewish communities than with the growing civility/enlightenment of non-jews. I do believe Iran poses an existential threat to Israel. That said, there is also no doubt in my mind that Israel’s actions violate international law and their critique, when anchored in a humanist framework, is NOT anti-semitic.

From the article,
“Today it seems that the most virulent strains come from the Left. Often this new anti-Semitism dresses itself up as legitimate disagreement with Israel.”
Let us be clear that both the Israeli state and Hamas are led by extreme right-wing fanatics. Both sides lump xenophobia, religion, jingoist nationalism into a political ideology. It is the fear on both sides that promotes the continued victory of corrupt and cynical politicians on both sides. There are no good guys in this conflict, only criminals and civilian victims on BOTH sides. We need more leftists on both the israeli and palestinian side. Thank GOD there are leftists in the jewish diaspora who can provide a cogent critique against the vulgar zionism currently espoused by the Israeli state.

I believe the world is still a dangerous place for jews, but Israel certainly does not help matters for the diaspora.

seazen's avatar

If you all only knew what it was like to be so small and surrounded by Hizballah in Lebanon, Hamas in Gaza and Iran supplying them all weapons. Armchair warriors – haven’t you learned anything from 9/11?

Israel is a democracy – imperfect – but then so is the US – and England, too.

The countries you are referring to are far, far from democracies – and have instigated war after war with Israel since day one in 1948.

I won’t convert or convince anyone here – and the Idler and Cazzie et al’s opinions are well established. I just like hearing people’s thoughts on the issues – and always wonder why people blindly believe the words of the Arabs – whom they have never met, do not understand – and can’t be bothered to learn English. They are not democracies, and slowly, by way of Shariah and well-placed mosques – perhaps even at ground zero – will take over the West if we allow it.

If you do not learn from the past, you are doomed to repeat it. Never Again.

I won’t argue with anyone – I can’t be bothered anymore. Think what you will.

flutherother's avatar

@seazen I don’t blindly believe the words of the Arabs or anybody else, I look at what is going on in the world and I make my own mind up. All of us here are capable of doing that.

seazen's avatar

@flutherother I don’t think you represent all of fluther. Shouldn’t everyone respect UN resolutions? Like not lobbying 10,000 rockets into Israel after the pullot from Gaza.

But first – how old are you? Have you been to the Middle East? Have you been abroad at all? Where do you get your information from? Any Jewish friends growing up?

I like to know whom I’m having a discussion with – especially someone who represents all of fluther.

If you don’t feel inclined to answer my questions first – just fuck off – or rant – I’ll be ignoring you. I can’t be bothered with the mindlessness of anti-Israel without any real knowledge. Copy/paste from “news” sources – and we saw how the almighty Reuters doctored photos recently – any nitwit can do. 30 seconds of news from Israel on TV isn’t knowledge. Go talk to an Israeli – like Tali or someone else here – if you really want to hear the other side.

The_Idler's avatar

I didn’t form my opinions on Israeli policy by “blindly believ[ing] the words of the Arabs”

They would probably not be presenting what I would consider a balanced and objective opinion on the matter.

When you say “The Arabs… will take over the West” Don’t you think you’re superimposing the policies of violent, expansionist governments onto a vast and varied group of ordinary people?
Now… that wouldn’t be right, would it?

If perhaps an Arab said “slowly, by way of strategic alliances and well placed ‘Settlements’, the Jews will take over Palestine if we let them” I’d bet £100 on what the first word out of your mouth would be.

Flavio's avatar

@seazen
It is strange to me for you to demand @flutherother ‘s jewishphile credentials to discuss with you. Is it not written that jews are the people of the book? Is the right-wing of Israeli politics not able to take on the legitimate arguments of Israelis, diasporadic jews, and others who are deeply concerned about the human rights violations in the occupied territories? Why is it that in your last comment you evade legitimate points raised by flutherother and others and resort to attacks about worldview and news-sources?

To me, your reactions exemplify your critique. Personally, I feel reasonably well informed on the issue and have come to very different conclusions from you. I take issue with your generalization of Arabs. I wonder where you get your information about what happens in the Arab world.

It’s interesting, I have a lot of family in Israel. A few of my cousins have opinions that may be similar to yours. Their minds are crystalized by fear and hate, their psyches tormented by a collective trauma that distorts their view of humanity. They hate and distrust all Arabs (including Israeli Arabs) and even non-Ashkanzi jews. They wake up afraid, go to bed afraid, and live all their actions in reaction to their fear. Most of my cousins however, are able to put this conflict in perspective. They understand that both the leadership of Hammas and the leadership of Likud and Yisrael Beiteinu are comprised of either extreme ideologues or cynics who stay in power by promoting violence, fear, and atrocities. Kadima and Avoda are marginally better, but that’s because they have more cynics than extremists. Not to mention that all of the major israeli parties are rife with graft, nepotism, and corruption (which is probably also the case with Hamas, although a news story about this has not crossed my desk). They affirm that the only way for there to be peace is for both sides to make concessions and that the primary project of all parties ought to be affirming human dignity, irrespective of what the other side(s) is/are doing.

You may ask if my cousin’s views depend on where they live. More or less. The more reactionary folk lived close to the Golan and received their fair share of rockets. Now they live closer to tel aviv but maintain their world view. A few of my other more progressive cousins also received their fair share of rocket fire, but maybe they were more resilient to begin with. I don’t know. They don’t discuss this for obvious reasons.

Remember, never again, especially by us.

mattbrowne's avatar

In Germany they do.

Racism is taboo in Germany like in any civilized country. Antisemitism is yotta, zetta, exa, peta, tera, giga, mega taboo. Not tolerated whatsoever. Not even a little bit. Nada. Which is a very good thing. Most educated Germans are very proud of this.

ronove73's avatar

In America, it is a perfect nation for Jewish people, as we really have no standing nationality or heritage. What I mean by this,and this is tantamount to a Jewish person’s success, is that a) there is plenty of opportunity and b) there is no age-old resistance to the culture, hence lack of xenophobia (we DO have freedom of religion after all). If you want to question whether Jewish people have more potential for success in the U.S. than elsewhere (barring Israel), I would say a resounding “Yes!” but so could anyone. Jewish families, like many other ethnic families, are tight knit. An American of fourth generation Christianity is more likely to kick the kids out at 18 and say: “Ok, Son or Daughter. Time to work the land. Good luck.” Conversely, a Jewish child may tend to get more attention in terms of college tuition (NO LOANS!) help or business connections help because of the strength of his or her family.
As for potential for success, there is another factor that may account for Jewish success and that is preclusion. Jewish families have benefitted in America for the reasons I’ve mentioned earlier for generations. After generations of being in a business, be it Hollywood or the graveyard, there does seem to be a preference to position their progeny in those Jewish-controlled industries. What I can give as an example is: If two applicants for a position boast resumes of equal qualitiy and one is that of a gentile and the other of a Jewish person, If the industry is owned by a Jewish person, the Jewish applicant does have a more likiler ace in the hole of securing said postition. Humans are visual animals and we group like things and people. This phemomenon would happen if the owner was Hindu and the Euro was against another Hindu. The power lies in the ability to PRECLUDE gentile potential. Yes, many lawyers at prestigious firms are Jews because the contributing partners are Jews, as this has been established generations ago. Yes, an Irishman or an Englishman will have a tougher time getting hired for that juicy spot at Horowitz and Horowitz LTD. if up against a Jew of equal ability. Does that make sense? I suppose you can’t curse one for human nature. If Armenians ran many prominent industries in America, you would have to ask “Do Armenians get preferential treatment?” It all boils down to birds of a feather. Many cops are Irish, because they will get hired by thier uncles. Many firemen are Italians, Contractors Poles, etc…

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