Will you please answer two questions I have about the two state solution for Israel and the Palestinians?

Without getting too bogged down in the details that will surely follow, my gut is:
1) Nope. I imagine most may even stay in Israel if they’re welcome since Israel’s economy is in far better shape.
2) Can’t happen. The most basic requirements for a nation-state (if I remember college correctly) are land, identity and recognition by other sovereign states. There simply won’t be enough states to recognize their sovereignty, even if Israel will somehow cede their claim on the land (also won’t happen).

No, I read in the Huffington Post last week that Israel made it a rule/law that to be a citizen you must declare you are jewish. That would prevent dual citizenship, I would think.

these are great questions, but no one knows. Ideally a Palestinian Israeli would get to choose, but the way Israel has been getting very reactionary in its citizenship recognition lately, it would not surprise me to see the Palestinians expelled.

One problem is the Palestinian state will probably not be contiguous.

While I think a mandate from the UN would be easily passed (if the US did not veto) the current territory is not under the same status as Palestine was in 1948. I think Israel would not go along peacefully.

I don’t think that the UN is authorized to parcel out land. These days, it’s all spoken for; I’d hate to think that they think that they have the power to do that.

@MissPoovey You misread; Israel is about to rule on whether one has to pledge allegiance to Israel, a democratic and Jewish state. Obviously, the Couple of million Muslims and Christians as well as Druze and other (there a re a few other religions that actually serve in the army, as do the Arab Druze) do not have to clain they are Jewish. That would be ridiculous.

The law hasn’t passed yet and it is very controversial, but no-one will have to convert to remain a citizen. It’s not unlike the US pledge of allegiance, just for Jewish State. With over 1.5 billion Arabs in the world, with almost all of the land in the whole Middle East, and a soon-to-be Palestinian State – I say they should go elsewhere if they can’t agree to a little place the size of New Jersey as a refuge for the Jews – especially after the Holocaust.

OP: Dual citizenship? Let’s start with a State, first. Meanwhile Israel wants and needs nothing from them, only vice versa. Many Palestinians living in the west bank actually get welfare and other benefits from Israel, ironically.

Goin to the UN and asking for a state? They were given half of the country in 47 – and then together with Egypt Syria Jordan and Lebanon (plus support from Iraq and Iran) attacked Israel from within – and lost – the rest is history.

Then again in 67. And again in 73 – during the fast of Yom Kippur.

Now they are suffering the consequences – and both they and Israel arepaying the price. Israel hasn’t been 100% pure and innocent – but “returning” land conquered for peace is a very delicate task – especially when there is pressure from different parties who believe in different things, e.g., that Israel is in fact on holy land given by God some 5500 years ago.

It’s complicated – but in the end – there will be a Palestinian state. But in Gaza – they elected Hamas and threw thousands of rockets on Israel as soon as Israel seceded the land and left it completely. A Palestinian state right on the border of Israel is something that has to be thought out very carefully, from a strategic and security standpoint.

I do wish for a Palestinian State – and I hope it prospers and all Arabs that consider themselves Palestinian (a little like Quebecois – they didn’t really exist until it was fashionable and Jordan didn’t want them) will go there – and leave Israel the fuck alone.

@seazen I know it might seem I am jumping ahead, but it seems like a detail that would need to be considered. My gut feeling is that it might be a more important question to the Palestinians than the Israelis ironically, but I always feel rather underinformed about the middle east and the situation in Israel, having never been there, and having an American perspective of things. Anyway, the way I see it, I would think the new Palestine would require a loyalty oath to become a citizen of their country, denouncing other allegiances, prohibiting other citizenships, much like the US during the cold war, but I made that up in my head off of assumptions. Maybe if there is a peaceful solution for dividing the land in the end, the dual citizenship will not be a big deal? Seems theoretically you can pledge to honor Israel as a Jewish state, be Palestinian, and live in a new Palestine as a citizen also.

Do you think Christian Palestinians will be more likely to want to live in Israel?

People want to live where the economy is good. No-one is ploughing the land and drying up with Eucalyptus trees anymore. It’s a global village – and one can run a multi-national company from one’s basement.

I personally neither object to a Palestinian State, nor even Jerusalem being “divided” – which I put in quotes because it already is de facto divided. No Israeli in his right mind thinks that annexing the East part is a good idea – demographically. There are so few Jews in Israel – about 5–6 million – and the birth rate is 1.8 – 2.1 – the Arabs are at around 4. It’s just a question of numbers and time before they simply vote the Jews out of their Democratic gov’t – and they know it.

It’s time to male peace – give them the land they’re already on – annex Ariel and the land where a quester million Jewish settlers are on – in exchange for land equal in territory adjacent to the West Bank. Jerusalem can be the eternal capital of all faiths – and the UN can run it as far as I’m concerned.

Anything to stop the bloodshed. It’s only land, and it’s 2010 – for heaven’s sake.

@seazen People don’t change. Oh, we’ll contort ourselves to adapt to our circumstances, but it’s the rare person indeed who’s actually happy about not getting his way.

@seazen I had this crazy idea that the rich Arab countries that hate Israel should pony up trillions of dollars, and the US or some other country give the Israelis land, and let the Israelis all re-settle and form a new Israel.

@JLeslie Uganda, perhaps? It’s time to read a little bit of history. How about the 1.5 billion oil rich arabs give the money, and land – which they have most of on earth for that matter – to their “brothers” the palestinians – and get the fuck off this tiny piece of land the size of New Jersey which has been Jewish/Israeli for 5500 years?

I have agreed to a two-state solution, to arabs who call themselves something that didn’t exist 60 years ago – who have waged war on the same amount of people who were exterminated in the Holocaust and who dried the swamps and made the desert bloom – who invented among other things the disk-on-key enabling you to write from your laptop right now – and you suggest we move. Let’s examine who has a right to this land: Historically, the Jews pre-exist the Muslims by about 2700 years. Israelis are back for a third time to the land “given to them by God” – but more importantly, settled the land and were given independence by the United Nations some 60 years ago – like India and other countries around the same time. There was nothing in Israel – swamps in the north, desert in the south – and all this on a strip of dirt you could drive from east to west in a half hour, north to south in 5. And who are the palestinians anyway? Really. Besides the misfits that Jordan doesn’t want any part of, that even Egypt closes the border to and then elct Hamas – root for Saddam in the war against Iraq, and cheer for Bin Laden.

I even suggested a multi-national Jerusalem, for heavens sake.

Let’s hear from some arabs and palestinians here: why does it seem I’m always debating American Jewish princesses here – and no muslims ever seem to come on fluther? Maybe it’s because they hate America too?

Self-deprecating humour is one thing; self-loathing I can’t tolerate.

What if your neighbours concluded they didn’t like the Jewish girl in their neighborhood and collected money to pay you to move? How about a nice place in lower Hymietown?

@seazen I could not agree with you more. I was not trying to suggest Israelis move, I was trying to say that if israelis want out of the crap, out of protecting their borders as a constant theme, are willing to give up the land, to be a safe nation, then maybe a deal could be brokered. I was thinking the US, a piece of land here, where the Israelis could have their own Nation but if they wanted be a territory of the US much like Puerto Rico or Guam. Enjoy the ability to be Israelis and Americans. I know it is not realistic. If it did happen I would blow up the infastructure of Israel after the last Jew left, give its new inhabitants of the land what the Jews started with, nothing more.

You said the people mean more than the land, I so feel that way, and I completely agree with how you see things. I fully support Israels right to exist, I believe Israel was created under legitmate circumstance, and I am disgusted that the other Arab countries do not give the Palestinains land to call their own. I am in favor of the two state solution. I want them to leave the Israelis the fuck alone also. I am not being the JAPpy American girl trying to tell Israelis what to do, I was only interested in how you might see the proposal after your comments. I know it is probably a completely unrealistic possibility, not only because Israelis would not want to leave, but also because it seems historically even America does not step up enough for the Jews. Does not always let them into the country when they need safe haven. I think part of the reason Europe was in favor of Israel originally was so the Jews would leave their own country. I don’t see the creation of Israel as a completely altruistic act on the part of the UN to be honest. I feel it was geopolitically advantageous to have an ally in that part of the world, I think many people were antisemitic back then, and I do think there was some compassion for our people.

I also agree with you that it is really annoying that we never seem to get Arabs on this site wiling to debate the issue. Every so often there is a non-Arab who sympathasizes with the Palestinians, but has little to say except hateful words about the Jews and Israelis, typically not willing to discuss a solution for dividing the land.

I hope we are not fighting. I think you are fantastic you know :). Sorry if my words came across poorly, or were misunderstood.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaGHUZ-8DWw&feature=player_embedded