General Question
How do I fight a divorce case with no money?
My spouse put me out on the street and filed for divorce, no warning. She left me without a cent, disabled, no job, no home, and won’t pay spousal support either. She has a $90k/year job. She knows I can’t afford a process server and have nobody to serve her a court order and am homeless, doesn’t care. How does anyone get justice in my situation?
35 Answers
She’d been abusive, already – sorry, I can’t give personally identifiable information here. As a guy, I expect people to assume I’m the abuser, but she was the abusive person in this case and one day just decided to lock me out. She hadn’t spoken to me for a long time beforehand and hasn’t spoken to me since, nor given any reasons, nor do I expect her to. She has a lawyer she pays to ignore me too. The why doesn’t really matter, I don’t bear a grudge, I just need to survive somehow.
If you are disabled, you need to show up at your local social welfare department and explain the situation. If you have been a dependent on your spouse and they have kicked you out, you should qualify for support for housing at least. I don’t know what state you live in… (or country for that matter… I’m assuming US) Find an advocate.
Depending on where you live some lawyers provide the first hour of advice for free. If you can find one maybe they can advise you at least on how to proceed, find someone to take this pro bono, etc…
First check with the local legal aid office, they might be able to give you some assistance. If that doesn’t work, is there a law school close by? I know that at least one law school around here has a legal clinic where their students, guided by professors of course, help clients who cannot afford legal assistance. Also, in our courthouse there is a self-help desk that can help you gather and prepare whatever paperwork might be required. Good luck.
Listen to all… especially @cazzie.
Tough I’m a bit confused… How did she succeed in putting you “out on the street”? Did she change the locks? Did she pick you up and carry you out the door? How did she accomplish kicking you out of your own home?
When it comes to the homeless situation you can get involved in a shelter and they can assist you with filing papers for public assistance and also housing… Only because you are disabled does not mean that she has to take care of you unless there is more to the story.. But legal aid should assist you with a lawyer…
Curious… How can someone that loved you in the past have such negativity for you and leave you out in the street???
Also I ave heard of the male being abused, this is 2010 anything can happen, sorry yu are going through such hard times..
Also depending on the state she can’t just put you out, for instance in Texas its a 50/50 until you are completely divorced and the money and the material things are separated into two parts.. you need a lawyer… why is your family? Parents??
If you have identification that states you live in the house, then you have every right to break down the door and stroll right back inside. Surely your name is on the lease, deed, utility bills…
@RealEyesRealizeRealLies: Agreed there has to be more to the story than told because if disabled how did she accomplish such and why doesn’t he have disability??? Also maybe everything was under her name, but the thing is he has the right to break into his own house for they are married… Wow love to know the rest of this story… Wow, this is a tough story.
—@RealEyesRealizeRealLies and @Marodr13. I don’t know if it’s fishy. People have different types of disabilities, mostof them not requiring that a woman be able to life your body weight and physically toss you out of the house; and sometimes when a spouse tells the other spouse to “get the eff out of my house,” or whatever she said, they just go. It may not be the time to stand there and enumerate your legal rights to your spouse, no, legally she didn’t have a right to essentially “evict” him.
You should’ve called the police. You can’t just throw someone that lives in a place out. It’s illegal and there’s lots of laws about it. Even the most krap renter gets a 30 day notice. If your’e married, it’s a whole different deal. You shoulda called the cops. And by the way, maybe you can get a lawyer from legal aid, but they still want some money.
@lilycoyote: I see your view, in the predicament that this individual is speaking about I feel that you may be right, but one thing is the action and the other the laws behind it.. right?? i feel that if I were in this situation I would get help and make sure that I am in a place where I can really think about what is going on.. In ways I feel this individual is still wanting to be with his wife and in reality she does not have to be with him, regardless that is her right but to be as cold as it seems is also not right.. I feel he needs help and to speak with someone that knows the laws.. what do you think about that??
@Marodr13 I think that: @sanjochris, you need to find an attorney. You can get divorced without one but that only works out if either the two parties are in agreement with each other about how it’s and if it’s not a complicated situation.
Here are a couple of links for you:
This is a list of organizations, etc. that provide free legal aid services in California.
and
this is a site that has links to resources and organizations that can help you get/find free or low cost legal services.
I don’t think really want to do this without a lawyer.
Good luck.
If you live in one of the nine community property states, a married couple each own exactly half of the marital assets.
If not, go to the nearest police station and file a complaint of wrongful eviction and ask for help from social services.
Whose computer are you using? If they can loan you a computer, they can probably help you find the help you need.
Local legal aid would help you serve her with divorce but it may not help much in terms of fighting for whatever financial splits to property you think you might be do but you should at least use them to gain whatever information you can. But even legal aid costs roughly $50. When you go make sure they show you what forms to fill out to claim half of her retirement benefits and whatever other retirement benefits she has access to (example: 401K) as well as health insurance and viable assets….cars, homes, investment property, stocks, bonds etc. As far as alimony, you can only get it for a short period of time…enough time to train or educate to enter the work force yourself. If you can sit at a computer and read and write you will be considered able bodied enough to sustain yourself through work and therefore only able to receive alimony for about 5 years.
If you’re in California then you should be able to get assistence from the county, a court appointed agent to walk you through your rights and filing procedures. Also, it’s not about what she wants or doesn’t want to pay, the courts will award you support and protections by your rights.
Contact legal aid. There are plenty of places abused spouses can turn to for legal protection. Fluther is not going to be able to help you.
Wow, what a range of answers, thank you for all the feedback and the many suggestions. I will answer everyone as best as I can. Bear with me for a long response as I have to answer several points, mainly personal ones that I wasn’t going to bring into this but now have to, to respond to your questions.
Firstly, this is a true story, it’s something that is happening to me right now and without diminishing the help I sought and continue to seek for myself, part of the reason I posted it was to try to expose the loopholes an abusive spouse can slip through, too. People assume that obtaining their legal and human rights in a modern society is relatively simple, and that one only needs to point to one’s rights to have the law immediately leap in to enforce them. I know that’s what I thought, once. Not true.
To answer one comment, I don’t have family of my own. Any old friends there were, are also friends of my spouse, and I couldn’t possibly expect anyone to betray one of us to help the other. The couple of others I know, who also know my situation, don’t want to go anywhere near my spouse in person and I can’t say I blame them.
To answer some more of people’s main points:
I live in San Jose, in California, an urban area with at least the usual social problems: a mixed ethnic community, poverty, homelessness, mental health issues and so on. It is a place in which one might expect many organizations to be working to help the community. In other words, I am not out in the countryside living up a tree, I’m in a place where there ought to be extensive social resources.
However, as a result of financial cutbacks by the State and I guess, just about every other funding organization, the agencies which once provided pro-bono legal support across a wide area of family law are no longer able to do so. The state is so broke there has even been a call to withdraw benefits that people already rely on.
The principal pro-bono service, though still advertising the services they once had, will no longer offer any facilities to people in divorce unless they are female and with children. It’s important to note that just because a service is advertised on a web site, doesn’t mean it still exists. This is often the case.
The law schools have nothing other than a meager grant which is spent immediately, and they too no longer offer the support they once did. When I called I was told to call back maybe next year.
Organizations which provide legal help for immigrants or those with mental health issues are able to do so only within their mandates; divorce does not fall within those mandates and therefore they are not permitted to represent people whose cases, even if there is an immigration or health issue underlying them, have any association with divorce matters.
There is no such thing as free legal aid for family law cases, though there is a court facilitator who can help with completing the paperwork. There are also paralegals who, for a fee, will help complete paperwork, but they are not allowed to offer legal advice or representation, which only qualified attorneys are permitted to do. I can handle the paperwork, that’s not my problem.
Additionally this isn’t a matter for social services, and to the person who mentioned shelters, they won’t get involved in anything other than providing food and a bed and sometimes not even that. One of the two shelters here no longer even provides a bed for more than one night a year, and there is a public lottery for beds there beyond that. They do not feed anyone who doesn’t have a bed. The other provides both bed and meals but nothing beyond.
The local church support group that once helped with food and clothing and other resources for the homeless and poor, regardless of gender or status, no longer does so but will only help single women with young children. The emergency support facility for abused women, and the independent mental health shelter and advocacy organization here, do not offer legal aid in divorce cases.
I have spoken at length with, and been advised by, at least two social workers. I have gone places and attempted to do things on the basis of information that qualified and responsible social workers have given me. They have not helped. In most cases they don’t have current information and, or, have been fed the wrong information by other government agencies. I’ve been through a number of County officials none of whom had the correct information about their own services but thought they did, or just guessed.
So, to the person who wrote “There are plenty of places abused spouses can turn to for legal protection”, yes, I believed there would be, too. It is so easy to make sweeping statements when one has no idea at all of the facts, isn’t it? I appreciate your taking up your time to enter the conversation, but really, you are not a part of the solution if you don’t understand the problem. You may be correct in that Fluther is not going to be able to help, but I would observe that Fluther is not an entity, it’s a community, and people in that community have their own individual ways of supporting others and the right to choose whether they become involved or not. Since I have to assume that you’ve not been appointed representative of the entire community, I would respectfully suggest you don’t take it upon yourself to act as its spokesman unless you have the community’s mandate to do so. Anything else is arrogance. And your lack of knowledge in this doesn’t qualify you, in my opinion anyway, as a candidate to represent anyone.
Moving along, I had to decide at a very early stage that I would have to defend myself. So I did a lot of homework, and to cut the story short I have been able to raise the paperwork for myself and progress to my present position without benefit of an attorney. As someone commented, in an uncontested divorce it is pretty easy and most people do represent themselves these days. With no income it was simple to obtain a fee waiver, too, so that there were no fees to file papers or obtain copies from the court.
However, I had not predicted that my spouse would contest the divorce. In hindsight maybe this was foolish of me, but I thought that since she was the one who had filed, she would be the one to want to settle. It did not occur to me that she would fight over the divorce which she unilaterally decided she wanted. That’s how it’s worked out though, and in the months since this all began, neither she nor her attorney has communicated with me, or served me any papers, or indeed done anything whatsoever. This has proved to be a very smart course of action, as they know I have no money and can’t hope to be able to fight once it gets to the stage of throwing court orders around.
To answer those who have wondered how it was even possible to get into this situation, yes, I know it’s not what you’d expect. For a start, you’d expect the police to jump in there right at the start, and you’d expect the law to prevail. Wrong.
When the first event took place, I was already aware that a person could not be legally ejected from their home of many years, regardless of who owned that home. Even if they had no financial share in it, even if their name was not on the deeds, the other party would have to go to the court and obtain an order for independent possession before taking any action.
The reality, is different. In practice, if a person is able to prevent access, just by the simple expedient of locking the doors and padlocking the gates, even though that’s illegal, they can get away with it and that’s that. Since it is a civil, rather than criminal offense, the police will take no action other than suggest the ejected party gets a lawyer. But by then, they are already out and can’t get back in. Trust me on this one, because it happened to me and it was me that had called the police. I was on the property but not in the house, and it was a simple matter of having all the doors locked and padlocked against me while I was looking the other way. It doesn’t take more than a few minutes to secure a building, someone could do it to you while you’re out watering the lawn.
The police also have the power to permit a person who has been ejected in this way to enter his or her home, accompanied by them, in order to get some personal effects. But they’ll deny it. When I asked if I could be allowed to get any of my things, they told me no. This despite them telling me that they knew I had not been responsible for any domestic violence myself. At no time was I accused of any mistreatment of anyone. But the police just said “you need to get a lawyer” and off they went.
So, yes, despite it being illegal, you can be turned out of your home without warning or explanation and the police won’t do a thing. Not their jurisdiction.
What is in their jurisdiction, and to answer another comment above, is violence against property. I was told that (should I be considering it) were I to attempt to use any force in order to get back into my own home, I would be arrested for using violence against the building.
Now, about attorneys. Yes, they will give you an hour, pro-bono, during which they’ll examine your case, tell you that you’re in the right, and that for $4000 they’ll fix all your problems in a month. To the question “what help do you offer to someone without $4000”, they can only answer “nobody, but nobody, will take a divorce, pro-bono. Nobody”. And that turns out to be exactly right. I’ve been told by attorneys several times now, that nobody works pro-bono on a divorce, and in general, nobody works pro-bono at all unless they can see they’ll get paid out of the proceeds of a case – i.e. where they are getting their hands on a trust fund, or similar assured value. I have written to many lawyers who have not even bothered to reply. I have given up emailing attorneys, because they never reply. They can’t be bothered, unless there’s money up front. It’s very frustrating, and it’s a disrespectful way to behave toward people who are asking for help.
The first attorney I spoke to looked at the details of the case, described my spouse as “a psycho” and declared confidently that I could be getting thousands in spousal support within a couple of months. Fantastic. All I had to do was hand over $4000 in cash and it would all be easy. OK, since it was so easy, would the attorney accept the $4000 as a deferred fee, taken out of all the thousands he was about to get for me? Nope. Did he think anyone else would? Nope.
See, the thing is I DO understand what everyone is suggesting and I’m not claiming that anyone is being intentionally unhelpful just because they’re suggesting things that don’t work. We are all of us, me included, brought up to believe the law protects us, and that when bad people do illegal things to us, those people will be punished. It’s a fundamental pillar of our society. We like to think that when a person claims a policeman has beaten him, he is either lying, or the policeman must have had some good reason. We want to believe in the law. We want to believe that if we’ve been living in a home for ten years, we can always be sure that it’ll be there tomorrow. We want to believe that abuse doesn’t happen, or at least, happens to people in different situations from us. You know, common people, stupid people, aggressive people, anyone other than normal people like us. When someone says they’ve been abused, and assuming that anyone believes them, the first question people ask is “why? What did you do to deserve it?” There is no “why”. There is no rational explanation for why a person treats another in anything other than a humane way. But most people’s reaction, initially, is to wonder whether the person doing the accusing is telling the truth. We are brought up to believe that normal people are good and abnormal people are bad, and we think we can tell the difference. We are encouraged to believe that anyone who complains about anything is weak, or wrong, or both, because all anyone has to do is ask the establishment for help, and there it is. Complainers are whingers, who don’t have the moral fiber to tackle their own problems. I know. These are things we want to believe and we’re encouraged to believe. I hear you.
Sorry this took so long. And even now, I’ve not got around to my current problem anyway, which is how to raise money to pay process servers and get to and from a court in another town, when there are no funds. But perhaps its more important to highlight the shortcomings of the system in general. People assume they’re protected by a legal safety net which actually isn’t there. They assume, as I did, that there’s a yawning chasm between “us” and the poor, and that, as I’ve heard said, people “choose to be homeless”. Maybe some do – I’ve never met one, but maybe they exist. In any case, that yawning chasm is actually a very fine line.
So I’m still left with wondering where are your disability checks being delivered, and whose computer are you using?
I’m sure it was cathartic to write all that, but you’re not going to solve your problem by talking to Fluther. Contact your local legal aid societies and get some free legal help.
@yarnlady, please explain why you wonder about such things? I am at a loss to understand the relevance.
@Dominic a cathartic experience wasn’t what I was looking for, any more than I sought a patronizing response. If I wanted catharsis I wouldn’t seek it here or expect others to tolerate that need. Has it occurred to you that by repeatedly telling us that Fluther isn’t going to help, you’re insulting those people who have already tried to be helpful?
People other than yourself were thoughtful enough to ask relevant questions that deserved answers, or wanted to hear more of the story. I’ve responded to those people in a way that I hoped would show my respect for their interest.
@Dominic That’s a little cold. A disabled man has, without warning, been told by his wife, a wife that is apparently the breadwinner in the family, that she has filed for divorce and is now throwing him out of the house. If nothing else convinces him that he can only find answers contacting legal aid rather than wasting his time on fluther it would be your rather snarky ” “I’m sure that was cathartic for to write all that.” A little tough love for the guy? Not your place.
@sanjochris I don’t mean to patronize you. No one here can help you file injunctions, or foot the bill for process servers, or tell you how to protect what assets you still have, or give you any real legal advice. A legal aid society can do that, and if your situation is half as desperate as it sounds, you desperately need it.
@lillycoyote If my snark convinces him to seek some local legal help that can keep him from slipping through the cracks of society, I’ll sleep soundly tonight.
Because it seems to me that you have the use of a computer, which requires money and you say you are disabled, so you should be able to find a rental.
My sister and sons mother-in-law and are both disabled, and their checks are running around $850 a month, plus they get food stamps. Sister lives in a boarding house with other SSI people, and MIL lives with Sonny. I see ads in the newspaper for rooms renting for $400 a month.
Also puzzling, when my son got a divorce, all the was required was to send the papers registered mail. There was no process server or expense involved, beyond a modest filing fee. We printed the forms off the internet, got a free legal aid to help fill them out, went to the court house and filed. Six months or so later, the divorce was final.
@sanjochris exactly what kind of legal help are you seeking? Are you seeking spousal support? Are you wanting to contest her filing for divorce? If you are hoping to get money or another kind of support from this woman, your energy might better spent in looking for a place to live and a way to start over again.
I am pretty sure @YARNLADY asked where your check is being sent by way of wondering about what permanent address. It seems as though she is thinking that if you have an address where you receive this check, you must have some kind of roof over your head. @YARNLADY, @sanjochris could be using a computer to access the internet at a local public library or even university library.
@sanjochris exactly what kind of legal help are you seeking? Are you seeking spousal support? Are you wanting to contest her filing for divorce? If you are hoping to get money or another kind of support from this woman, your energy might better spent in looking for a place to live and a way to start over again.
I am pretty sure @YARNLADY asked where your check is being sent by way of wondering about what permanent address you might have. It seems as though she is thinking that if you have an address where you receive this check, you must have some kind of roof over your head. I think this is a valid question. @YARNLADY, @sanjochris could be using a computer to access the internet at a local public library or even university library.
Everyone who responded in this thread did so with the best of intentions whether or not their advice proved helpful to you. Good luck to you @sanjochris.
She shouldn’t be able to hold up the divorce. Find out if you can get it ordered on basis of abandonment.
Hello folks, sorry for the delay but I wanted to take the advice given and see what happened before I responded.
So since I was repeatedly being told to contact legal aid by @Dominic, I sent an email to the local Legal Aid client support address, since one has to make contact by email or phone in the first instance and I don’t have a phone. I explained my situation briefly but comprehensively as possible in a small space, and I specifically asked that they reply, whether they felt able to help me or not.
They did not reply. This was on November 2nd, 16 days ago.
My feeling about @YARNLADY and her comment is simply that she was not even trying to answer my question, and the rule here is “Responses must be helpful and on-topic”. So what’s the point of contributing at all? If I had wanted a critique of my ability to convince others of my honesty I would have asked for one. No offense to @YARNLADY because I don’t know her at all, nor her motivations, but I asked a question, seeking help, and being challenged to prove my entitlement to ask is just incredibly unhelpful.
However, since the questions were asked then here are the answers. Firstly I am not entitled to any sort of disability benefits. I don’t have to explain why not. I just don’t qualify, and you may choose to believe that or not, as you wish.
Secondly there are more ways to post to the internet than owning your own computer, as I think someone else has already pointed out. But even if I have a laptop, which incidentally can be had here in Northern California for $50 – $100 in thrift stores, that’s not exactly a demonstration of great wealth and therefore proof that you should treat me with suspicion. So, yes, I rescued my old $50 laptop because it just happened to be with me when I was locked out, and am sitting at a free wi-fi hotspot in a FedEx store typing this. Does that make me a suspicious person?
Thirdly, I have a mailing address. It is a box in a wall and I have to scrape up $15 a month to keep it, which is a challenge but so far, I’ve kept it for three months. I had to get it, so that I had something to put on legal documents and there was someplace I could be served by mail.
With regard to the ease of getting a D-I-Y divorce in California, yes, @YARNLADY is mostly correct in that about 80% of people with uncontested, friendly divorces can do it themselves and that’s what I hoped to do. But this one is contested, and it is impossible for me to get either my spouse or her attorney to even acknowledge I exist. They will not reply to mail and have done nothing.
@cazzie, at the mandatory case conference at the start of this month, I told the judge that I am abandoned, broke and homeless and had no clue what my spouse’s side were doing. Her attorney then admitted that yes, they had done nothing and weren’t planning on doing anything, to which the judge replied, OK, fine, see you next year. End of ‘conference’.
@Dominic, who I think is a law student(?), will tell you that I need something called an OSC to get my wife to pay me temporary spousal support. According to the self-help books which I bought with money I borrowed for the purpose, this requires personal services on both her (twice) and her attorney (once) and at least three trips for me to court, which is a 25-mile round trip each time. And even then, she will no doubt show that she has so many expenses that she cannot afford to pay me. I think she’d probably rather go to prison than put her hand in her pocket. And to be frank, I’d rather not need to be dependent on someone who vocally wants to see me dead but I have to do my best to survive.
@SuperMouse, “Looking for a place to live and a way to start over” is something I am trying to advance by writing this and asking for advice: having some financial security might lead to a way to start over, and maybe yes, even find a home. But it has always been the case that the homeless are given less than they need to start over, hence the term “poverty trap”, meaning that even with the help on offer, one will never get quite enough to rise out of the hole one has been dropped or fallen into. And since there will never be enough, far too many people turn to spending most of what they do have on alcohol and drugs. They don’t see it will make any difference. I’m not one of them, incidentally, but believe me I know that the line between one kind of existence and another is thinner than we believe. By sheer good fortune I’m not attracted to drink or street drugs, but I might well have been and I can see why some people fall down those holes, too.
I’m sorry, this has been another long posting but my excuse is that It’s also been more than 2 weeks during which I have kept uncharacteristically silent!
I really appreciate everyone’s attempts to help, and I really do hope that I am serving to highlight and expose the realities of how the legal system fails for people who fall through the cracks. You aren’t in the least uncommon in believing there are services out there that simply don’t exist any longer, nor are you exceptional in not wanting to believe that a person cannot get help in a society that is supposedly caring and supportive. Your first response may well be, as @YARNLADY responded, that this person is not telling the truth and must be hiding something, since people don’t have such experiences in the Real World. Believe it, we do. Don’t even start me on how the Social Services department treats people, you wouldn’t believe that either.
If I give anyone cause to re-examine their beliefs about poverty, it’s worth every word I’ve written, long-winded as I may be and I’m sorry about that. But the question I asked remains. Despite the claim by the courts that justice should be available to everyone, how do I get it?
I am going to re-send that mail to the Legal Aid office and see if they ever reply.
Thank you for your reply. I have responded by requesting more information because I do not appreciate wasting my time trying to help people who are asking hypothetical questions, and yours sounded fishy.
Here in Sacramento, we have an organization called Loaves and Fishes that helps indigent people. With your access to a computer, you can do searches for social services in your area, and just make the rounds of the various organizations.
Another suggestion is to contact your political representative, mayor or state or federal level. The aid in their office might have some tips for you.
When my son was getting his divorce from a woman who had absconded with everything they owned while he was on an aircraft carrier, we saw many people simply sitting in the court house waiting room, waiting for help. Perhaps a sit in of sorts would work for you.
Which legal aid society did you email? I have a phone. I’ll call them myself. If one didn’t answer their client email, you can try another; getting in touch with any actual lawyer in California, even if they’re not necessarily local, would give you much-need information.
If you were thinking of serving your wife personally, note that in California, parties to a suit are not capable of serving one another. That is, you need a third person to serve your wife with process. As for the rest of your response to me, that’s about whether you win your divorce case, not how to fight it.
So, you’re an immigrant to the US? Not a citizen? Is this getting in your way? Do you have a medical report stating that you are unable to work and permanently disabled?
I’d make a special effort to call and make an appointment and then show up early and often until you get the help you need.
Also, download Skype and use it as a telephone on your pc if you can. It’s gotten me out of a jam or two when my cell phone was dead. www.skype.com
In the mean time, try contacting some charitable organisations for some immediate and temporary help. Churches, abused spouse organisations (don’t be too proud, you won’t be the first man they’ve seen, surely). I’m not exactly sure where you are…..... but here’s a quick list of what I was able to find in California:
http://www.charity-charities.org/charityinfoNF.php?ID=395490&page=2 (work and housing for the disabled)
http://www.charity-charities.org/charityinfoNF.php?ID=396038&page=2 (Trust set up to provide temporary funds for the needy)
http://www.charity-charities.org/charityinfoNF.php?ID=395612&page=2 (Food Bank)
I’m sure you could go through the list of charities on these pages and make some contacts. You might even find someone in an organisation that can help you with transport.
Good luck.
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