Has anyone had experience with hiring a trapper to set snares for Coyotes?

I don’t think that will solve your problem. There’s too many of them and they’re too widespread any more. Eliminating the local population will just invite other coyotes into your area. I think you’ll need to adapt to them as is.

The County Ag. trapper is definitely the right place to start. You don’t want to violate any local Fish & Game regulations and add a stiff fine to your problems.

The problem with snares is that they function without regard to species. They may do more harm than the coyotes themselves.

I’ve never worked directly with them, but I doubt that killing the alpha will help. Coyotes are survival specialists, and if there’s food and habitat in your area, they’ll still be around.

Yeah…who knows…but I have had years of a peacable kingdom over here and now I am under seige. :-(

This is a big wilderness area and there is plenty of prey but these Coyotes are staking out my place and my neighbors. We have sheep, mini-donkeys, geese, and cats and dogs and they have targeted us as easy pickin’s..I have to try something!

They’ve been like a plague here for years. We just have to coexist with them. What has changed in your area lately?

@Adirondackwannabe

There has been an explosion this season. This family in question den in my ravine and have 3 juvinille offspring right now. Just overload and they are on the prowl. I am aware that I live in a wildlife area and love that, but…since this pack is marauding so close to home I am hoping that if I thin the herd so to speak they will move on. I have never had this problem in the 18 years I have lived here., It is out of control this year!

Have you considered getting a Great Pyrenees? I grew up in a mountain area and our neighbors had these dogs which did a fantastic job policing the neighborhood coyotes.

Killing coyotes just results in more problems, as numerous studies have shown. Kill some and others will move in. All you guarantee is a job for the trapper :>(

And snares are a terribly inhumane way to go.

Have you considered a guard llama or other guard animal? When we raised goats, we got one after the 2003 fires, when lots of displaced coyotes were around our place. We never lost a goat in the four years we had him, even though we hear coyotes almost daily and see them frequently.

@Coloma

Also, did anyone see the coyotes attack?

In our area, lots of the “coyote attacks” turn out to be roaming dogs. They are far more vicious killers than coyotes can ever be.

Yes, my neighbors have a Llama that patrols my pasture and woods with his sheep, but I cannot have a big dog with my birds. I will talk with the trapper and fish & game people more before I determine if this is a method I want to employ.

I am just so bummed out with my cat being taken Sunday. and my other neighbors are up in arms too, so many pets that can be mauled or killed.

@Blueroses

The Pyrs and other livestock guardian dogs are great if you have a secure property with good fencing. They can be a liability otherwise, as they do tend to roam.

Lots of people in our area have Anatolian Shepherds as they handle heat well- now those are intimidating dogs!

@crisw I don’t have any doubt she’s dealing with coyotes. Those are some of their signature kills.

@crisw

Oh yes…I see them almost daily, scared one off my cat a few months ago and we ( neighbors & I ) have found their killing field with chciken and cat remains. It sucks!

@Coloma

Livestock guardian dogs can be trained to ignore birds.

Excuse me? There are coyotes here, you know.

Anyway, kidding aside,

Here’s a book you might be interested in: Solving Coyote Problems: How to Coexist with North America’s Most Persistent Predator.

And here’s something from the from the Massachusetts’ Department of Fish and Game about living with coyotes that has, what seems to be some helpful information on dealing with them including how to build a “coyote proof” fence, if that might be an option for protecting your animals.

@lillycoyote

Yes, I know. I have lived in this area for 18 years. Just a bad cycle this year, and this is the first time I have ever considerd hunting them. I do have sturdy weldwire fencing on my birds corral and decent field fencing around the bulk of the property but they are crafty. Beleive me, I spend a lot of time mending fences and plugging holes and filling in digouts.

@Coloma What’s changed in your area? Less farms, more land reverting to a wild state?. etc You’re probably going to have them all the time is my guess, not just this year.

@Coloma Those are some of the issues the fish and game link discusses about fencing. This is what they say.

Fencing and Husbandry Practices

Coyotes can jump over and dig under fences that are improperly built. Coyotes don’t leap fences in a single bound but, like domestic dogs, they grip the top with their front paws and kick themselves upward and over with the back legs. Their tendency to climb will depend on the individual animal and its motivation. Coyotes are also excellent diggers, therefore the type of fence you install may require barriers be built into or extending from the ground.

Eliminating the coyote’s ability to grip the top of the fence is also recommended. You can do this by installing a PVC pipe that is free to spin around a tight wire. The height of the fence should be a minimum of 6 feet in height and tightly flush with the ground. If you have a lower fence, an outward overhang of fence wire may help prevent coyotes from jumping over

And I do understand. If coyotes killed my cats I’d want to shoot them myself though I probably wouldn’t be able to go through with it.

Firstly, I totally agree that one should not randomly kill wildlife. However, as the owner of a significant amount of acreage on which wildlife populations are well managed I can tell you from experience that there is such a thing as “nuisance animals” that must be kept in check in order for the land to remain suitable for species you wish to protect (family pets included).

Coyotes are one such animal, feral hogs are another. However, rather than setting out traps, around here we use the age old tradition of “varmint hunting” to keep those populations in check. Frankly, a well placed shot from a rifle is quite a bit more merciful an end than the indignity of being trapped in a share, plus (with minor apologies to those who are less comfortable with the order of nature) it can provide significant recreational value.

@lillycoyote

Good tips most certainly. @Adirondackwannabe
The only thing thats changed is the population is waaay up this year, obviously a banner year for the prey cycle, but now they are coming in for domestic pets and livestock.

There is an abundance of squirrels, deer, rabbits, turkeys, but…a matter of discovery and a numbers game I think.

I know that it is impossible to eliminate the population as a whole, but..culling a few of the more agressive animnlas might help, and certainly can’t hurt.

If by eliminating a few I gain another huge block of time, like years..well…it’s worth a try.

I was reading that the fish&game in South Lake Tahoe culled some aggressive Coyotes after two attacks on toddlers in their own yards in the last few years.

I had no idea that they could be people aggressive but there are dozens of cases of adults, children and people walking dogs being attacked.

It is sad, but, my animals have a right to be safe in their own yard too.

@lillycoyote

“If coyotes killed my cats I’d want to shoot them myself though I probably wouldn’t be able to go through with it.”

I lost quite a few animals to coyotes.

All were my fault. The cat that went out afer dark, the guinea hens that were free-roaming, the chickens in the coop that had wire that was too big of a mesh so they could stick their heads through.

All my fault. And I feel bad about it, but I could never harm a coyote because of it.

I moved in to the coyotes’ territory. They were here first. And, the way I look at it, I cannot ever possibly blame them or harm them for being coyotes.

@YoBob

Yes, my neighbor just ordered a ranch rifle with night scope…at this point me, nature and animal lover of the planet has no qualms about shooting a few of these guy’s. I am over $500 in on dead cats in the last 3 months and cannot turn my other animals out without constant supervision.

Exactly…‘nuisance animals’...meaning the most aggressive may get theirs. lol

@YoBob

I will admit, right off, that I despise “varmint hunters” with a fierce passion. They make me sick. Slaughtering predators for kicks is nauseating.

And it doesn’t work. Again, wildlife research agrees on this. Random killings just cause the remaining coyotes, sensing the population drop, to reproduce faster, younger and with larger litters. And, if you kill coyotes that are doing no harm, the newcomers that will certainly move in may not be so harmless. Coyotes are territorial, and “good” coyotes keep the others out.

The only methods that work are those that don’t focus on killing- responsible livestock husbandry.

I agree with it not being the coyotes ‘fault’ and I do take major precautions. My Marley ran out the door when I was on my way to lock up the barn on Sunday night at 7 o’ clock. I couldn’t round him up and now he is gone. I don’t blame the Coyotes but this situation is out of control so I am being forced to look at alternatives that I would not normally consider.

@Coloma

Just to make clear- I can’t object to targeted removal of coyotes that have definitely killed livestock. It’s random killing that I object to.

@crisw

I agree 100% I despise ‘sport’ killing, but as I said…I am at my wits end and figure that maaaybe taking out a couple of them might break the cycle.

@crisw I am not talking about “sport killing” just for the sake of killing something. I am talking about population management. I am, however, pointing out that the act of population management carries a recreational value as a side effect and is quite a bit more humane than the snares originally proposed.

As one who has spent the past 40+ years watching the ebb and flow of various predator/prey populations on a small (couple of hundred acre) family ranch I can tell you that it has been my experience that selective population management of predator species has been quite effective on that particular piece of the earth. I am curious to hear about the first hand experience upon which base your assertions regarding “good” coyotes keeping others out or that “responsible livestock husbandry” will somehow magically keep the “fox out of the hen house”.

@YoBob

I tend to agree with you. The ‘good’ Coyotes are the ones that keep their distance and prey upon natural prey populations and not household pets and livestock.

Sooo, IMO while one cannot label an animals natural disposition as good or bad for every ‘problem’ Coyote out here there are many more that walk on the wild side and do not cross the line into predation on pets and livestock.

Once the animal has discovered easy prey you can’t blame it, but you can eliminate it.

This is the principal I am operating under.

@crisw I understand the issues and I would never actually kill a coyote but I love(d) my cats too. I was just trying to say to @Coloma that I understood, at least I think I do, what got her to this state of mind, where after 18 years of trying to coexist with them, she feels like she’s out of options. I don’t necessarily think she is. But I do understand “where she’s coming from” as they used to say.

@lillycoyote

Thanks, I appriciate that.

It’s a hard call and I have strong convictions about the stae of affairs of displaced wildlife and encroachment.

However I am also pragmatic enough to know that sometimes one has to bring out the big guns so to speak.

I am simply weighing all my options short of building a compound of motion detectors and razor wire.

@YoBob

“the act of population management carries a recreational value as a side effect ”

Treating the killing of any animal as something that can be done for fun and games, as something that is enjoyable, is something that fails to show respect for that animal.

“it has been my experience that selective population management of predator species has been quite effective on that particular piece of the earth”

Quite effective at doing what, exactly? Promoting the goal of a balanced, varied, healthy ecosystem or forwarding some goal- such as increasing the number of game animals- that is intended to benefit humans?

“I am curious to hear about the first hand experience upon which base your assertions regarding “good” coyotes keeping others out or that “responsible livestock husbandry” will somehow magically keep the “fox out of the hen house”.”

I don’t act on anecdotes and hearsay, I act on research and scientific validity. Here are some studies for you:

• Random killing of coyotes not involved in depredation may increase depredation by opening up territories for new breeders.

• Coyotes are very territorial, and keep out other coyotes.

• The number of coyotes killed has nothing to do with reduction in depredation, and few coyotes actually kill sheep. Only removing just the sheep killers had any effect in reducing depredation.

• Non-selective coyote control increases coyote reproductive rates.

That’s a start (my computer crashed as I was working on this!(- plenty more is out there if you want more.

@crisw Actually, I suspect we are closer to agreement than not.

I do not advocate the indiscriminate killing of animals for pleasure. I do, however, understand the role of predation in maintaining a healthy ecosystem. As for the “recreational side effects”, I do not believe that finding pleasure in the role that one plays in maintaining balance as a good steward is in any way disrespectful (quite the opposite, in fact).

Regarding the promotion of healthy ecosystems or the goal of increasing the number of game animals, the two are one and the same. To take this concept one step further, I would argue that reduction of predator species to promote a friendly environment for game animals is quite a bit closer to maintaining a healthy ecosystem than removing predators simply because they are killing livestock (or pets).

So… how does one make the determination of when it is acceptable to remove a few predators? IMHO, the equation is quite simple, when they become a problem it’s time to thin them out. In the original posters case, a problem clearly exists. Just because Billy Joe Bubba Bob might take pleasure in his ability to fling a small projectile over 150 yards with adequate accuracy to address the issue does not make that any less valid a solution than hiring the agricultural department to set out a snare. In fact, I would argue, (in fact, have argued) at the end of the day it is actually more humane.

@YoBob

“Regarding the promotion of healthy ecosystems or the goal of increasing the number of game animals, the two are one and the same.”

Hardly. We’ve seen, over and over again, the imbalances caused by managing for increasing the number of game animals. The trophic cascade caused by wolves in the Rocky Mountains is a prime example of a part of this. We had decades of management for large numbers of deer and elk. (We still have a governor in Idaho who recently called ungulates “Idaho’s livestock.”) So what happened? Well, as one small strand in the web, elk overbrowsed willows and aspen, which meant that the number of beavers decreased, which meant that the number of small ponds decreased, which meant that the amount of riparian vegetation decreased, which meant that numbers of songbirds decreased. Put the wolves back, and what happened? Not only did wolves reduce elk numbers, they kept them from sitting around and having a 24-hour aspen buffet. So the aspen and willows regenerated. Then the beaver returned…and do on down the strand.

But what has the reaction of hunters been? Outrage that the wolves dared eat “their” elk. Demands that elk numbers be kept artificially high so that hunters can more easily get “their” elk. Insistence that hunter needs, not ecosystems, be kept as the primary focus of wildlife management. Calls for wiping out huge numbers of wolves in areas where elk numbers have fallen. And so on and so forth.

The wolves do a better job at “managing” elk than humans can ever do, but in our hubris we want that role for ourselves and to hell with what’s best for the ecosystem.

Managingh for game animals suits human needs, not ecosystem needs.

@YoBob

A couple more points:

“So… how does one make the determination of when it is acceptable to remove a few predators? IMHO, the equation is quite simple, when they become a problem it’s time to thin them out.”

So who makes the decision of what a “problem” is? Wolves eating elk is not a “problem.” Foxes eating non-native ringneck pheasants is not a “problem.”

As far as what I consider a problem- an animal that attacks humans, or one that attacks livestock on private property is a problem. If the owner of the livestock has done everything that is prudent to protect the livestock, yet there are still predator problems, I can condone removing the offending predator.

I cannot condone killing predators to increase game numbers, or killing predators on public lands for the benefit of public lands ranchers.

“As for the “recreational side effects”, I do not believe that finding pleasure in the role that one plays in maintaining balance as a good steward is in any way disrespectful”

One problem here is that those who kill for fun will be motivated to keep the regulations such that they can continue killing for fun.

@crisw

Right, I agree with all you say and I appriciate all the info. but…I am asking about actual EXPERIENCE not armchair debate or emotional arguments.

I want to know if anyone has eliminated a few extremely aggressive animals and the outcome of that over a particular period of time.

Every situation is unique, I just want to know if anyone has ‘taken care of’ a problem animal and if by doing so they experienced a decrease in predatation for a certain amount of time.

Like I mentioned, I have been co-existing for 18 years in a wildlife area and have never experienced the magnitude of issues that I have in the past 6 months over here.

If killing a couple of coyotes means I may experience years of no issues again I opt for that at this particular moment in time.

@Coloma One other thing you said was rattling around in my head. You said leader of the pack. That’s what has changed around here. Coyotes used to be solitary, but they have learned in the last few years to hunt in packs much more often. They can bring down larger animals, making their food supply larger. That’s also why killing a few doesn’t have any impact on the number in an area, in my experience. The packs are mobile and less tied to a particular area. Killing the aggressive ones in your area will not help your situation.

@Adirondackwannabe

Yeah…no tellin’ what to expect…I am just contemplating options as I said, short of buliding a moat around my property…not a bad idea if I had a million dollars. lol

Quick..close the drawbridge, Coyotes coming!

I wonder how much Alligators cost?

@Coloma
a guard dog is probably cheaper and more effective! :>)

@Adirondackwannabe

Are you on the East Coast, I presume?

Recent studies have shown that your coyotes actually have some wolf genetics, which is why they are far more inclined to go after deer than our scrawny Western critters.

All coyotes are social and live in family groups if they can. Heavily persecuted populations just have their social structure messed up by constant removal of group members.

@Coloma

I did give you my individual experiences as well- guard animals work. That’s the best advice I can offer for a long-term solution.

@crisw

Yes, I think the eastern populations seem even more agressive from what I’ve read, but, who knows.

The dog thing is a great idea except that I don’t want a dog. I am trying to simplify my life.

Maybe just a good lookin’ farm hand in a thong with pepper spray.

Barn boy, I need you. lol

Our eastern coyotes have all kinds of things mixed in to their genes, they’re aggressive, and they’re getting huge. I have a picture of one that must have been at least 100 pounds. The thing was enormous. It’s next to a fence post so I got a good reference for the size.

Here’s some interesting info on Eastern coyotes. It doesn’t look like any coyotes have gotten near 100 pounds.

Coyotes look much larger than they really are. They are built much like greyhounds- all legs and snout.

Here’s a paper on record coyote sizes – the largest female ever recorded weighed 55 pounds, the largest male weighed 74.8.

@crisw I’m not sure what was in the coyote’s gene pool. It was heavy bodied, alot more than the typical coyote,and it was huge. I’ve been around animals all my life and this one was at least 100 pounds.

@Adirondackwannabe

Could that have been a wolf?

@crisw

Are there any coyote-wolf hybrids?

@Brian1946 It had the typical coyote shaped head and face, not a wolf’s shape. Believe me I looked closely at that.

@Brian1946

See the links I posted- Eastern coyotes are in reality coyote-wolf hybrids.

@Adirondackwannabe

Are these pictures available anywhere? Where were they taken? Was the animal in question weighed by anyone? The Internet is filled with stories of people who overestimated animal size from a photo; it’s notoriously unreliable.

@crisw Just wanted to say that I agree with you regarding removing predators on public land for the sole purpose of increasing game species. What I am referring to in my little neck of the woods far more resembles protection of livestock than it does the Elk example you cite. I would categorize the removal of feral hogs (a non native species) to decrease competition for food resources or thinning larger predators such as coyotes or bobcats in those very rare years when the white tail deer population is low and the predator species numbers are high (as evidenced by their increased visible presence) as good stewardship rather than the sort of self serving and irresponsible behaviors you describe.

For what it’s worth, one of my favorite sounds when I sleep out at the ranch is the sound of the coyotes cutting loose just after sunset.

@Adirondackwannabe Are you sure you are not seeing a large (perhaps feral) domestic dog with coyote like features?

This thread reminds me of the ongoing struggle here between ranchers and the dingos. Although there are virtually no pure dingos left on mainland Australia, they are all mixed with feral dogs as mine is. It is a crime that people do not have their animals desexed. The pure native animal here would not present nearly the problems that these dingo/dogs do.

The common solution here is to bait and poison. I am not a poison expert but I understand the death from this poison is not particularly quick or painless. There is a bounty on them in most states but they are cunning creatures and not many have the inclination to get out there and outsmart them.

Don’t know what the answer is but it is a sad situation. And I know if my dogs and critters were in danger, I would want to do something to protect them. There were a couple of dingo fences built but their effectiveness was dubious.