If North and South Korea ended up at war, what would it mean for the world as a whole?

China no longer likes to affiliate themselves with North Korea, especially with Kim Jung Il holding the reigns.

I doubt Russia would get involved either, but you never know what goes on in Putin’s head.

North Korea would probably stand alone this time around, everyone is more or less sick of, at the very least, Kim Jung Il.

The UN would be involved technically as they have a few people over there as well.

But in all honesty I think it’d be N. Korea with their piece of crap, antique, obsolete, military against the US and S. Korea.

As for who’s pointing what at who, North Korea, if their missiles are capable of taking off with a nuclear payload, probably has their missiles aimed at Japan. China has something pointed at everybody, as does Russia. India most likely has some pointed at various countries throughout Asia (especially Russia, China, and Pakistan) and Pakistan probably follows suit (except their aiming at India and not themselves).

As for that last statement of yours, I’m gonna kill you.

@Winters – Cheers for that! I forgot about the Pakistani nukes. I have just been reading that India has substantially reinforced its border with China!!! Why is this?

I wouldn’t blame India for that, they’re expected to exceed China’s population soon and most likely steal away the title of cheap labor nation with that. China probably feels threatened by India’s recent rapid growth both population wise and economically and India probably picked up on the tension there in hence is taking a preemptive measure to prevent China from starting a massive war/conflict of attrition.

And I’m still killing you for that last statement btw. lol

@Winters – Pls don’t kill me, tis not my fault they like KFD.

@Mat74UK we don’t like that stereotype and it only holds true for the extremely old fashioned folk.

At least we’re not China, we never had to resort to eating people in our history.

No one in the region wants bombs going off. So N Korea can play off that fear in order to create a provocation that will get the West to buy them off.

Things are really bad in N Korea, and have been for a long time. Maybe the people are getting restless. Creating a credible external threat can help them rally the people to fight together instead of fighting the regime.

Probably what the N Koreans want is food and maybe oil. A lot of stuff. Sanctions have been stiffening. The N Koreans just showed the world their uranium purification plants. That’s clearly a threat they they can make weapons. They now have attacked S. Korea.

They are playing a high stakes game. Their regime, I bet, is close to collapsing. These are desperate measures. It’s an all-in kind of thing, I think. If we call their bluff and tighten sanctions, will they send off a bomb? Do they have a bomb?

I don’t know what we should do. We could back off, but that will show them we can be intimidated. I guess we have to do nothing. No increase of sanctions. No decrease. Just wait. Stall. Maybe they will collapse before we have to do anything.

@wundayatta I don’t know if you remember this but a few years back N. Korea did successfully detonate a petite nuke (small is to big in my book to cover the size of it but it was a nuke nonetheless).

The thing is with the sanctions, they don’t exactly always hold. The US is also the #1 food donor in the world and whenever N.Korea gets struck by famine they eventually ask for help, lo and behold, we give them the food and a lot of it.

Good bye.

I’d add that you never know what China will do either. They are getting tired of North Korea’s antics but they like to be contrary to the US since they seem themselves as an upcoming superpower.

Still, I think if nukes start flying the world will rally. A nuke hasn’t been used for military purposes since 1945 and I can’t imagine the world letting it go by without severe actions.

China considers the Korean Peninsula as part of their area of control. I doubt they would let the US conduct military operations much beyond the current DMZ in Korea. Best case scenario is a joint US/Chinese operation to take out the leadership of N Korea and replace it with a less belligerent regime.

The Chinese government does not want a unified democratic Korea on its doorstep, and the USA does not want a unified Communist run Korea with nuclear weapons.

War is knocking on South Korea’s door. North Korea fired tons of artillery shells at South Korea, but alas, people never pay attention.. Unless it’s about dancing with the stars or something. Here

North and South Korea have been at war since 1952(3?); there as never been a treaty. We are aligned with South Korea, but China and Russia have a vested interest to keep North Korea in check, and have already censured North Korea. It is in their vested interest to keep things in check.

i love the way @Winters discusses nuclear obliteration so casually, as if we were making small talk about the weather, like it’s the most natural thing in the world.

War in that region is unthinkable, America should stop publicly humiliating North Korea and relentlessly pushing their buttons. N. Korea is like a cornered animal, unpredictable and nasty. Leave them be. Things will change gradually, by a process of osmosis.

@mammal North Korea makes shows of their power and ability in order to convince people to cave to their demands. Most likely, the incident from earlier today was one of those shows of power. They do that so that people will give in to what they want in negotiation talks. Letting them be to change gradually will not happen. They have no desire to change, only to pursue their interest in South Korea (and who knows what after that). North Korea likes to force the South into negotiations in order to get aid from South Korea. This article talks about their tactics some and about the famine they have and why they need the aid. They’ve asked China for aid twice this year and only received a little bit of aid from China.

@Seaofclouds so what then, kill every man, woman and child, or learn to tolerate, ideologically differences. America says something stupid, N. Korea does something stupid, people die for stupid reasons. There is a pattern emerging here wouldn’t you say? America must learn that Communism isn’t illegal, it isn’t banned under the Geneva convention. Personally i wouldn’t fancy living in North Korea, but it is what it is, leave them be. We all know South Korea is never going to retaliate, next time it will stop conducting outrageously provocative drills in sensitive areas. South Korea are far too soft to engage in any full scale war. China will never tolerate American invasion, the world would be turned upside down if the North invaded the South. so it would be wise to let the tension stagnate.

@mammal The tension won’t stagnate. And from what I read today, the US urged South Korea not to do anything at this time, so how exactly are we being the ones to blame for this?

@Seaofclouds by making outrageous demands on a sovereign state and intervening in their domestic affairs, as per usual, and by bolstering the South and tacitly encouraging military posturing along the disputed border regions. Again what would you have? an insane war is that what you are after? Now America will back down and the South will back down, that is the reality.

@mammal No I don’t want a war. All I’m saying is that the North is not going to suddenly stop trying to start a war. If we were to leave them be 100% and leave South Korea on their own to defend themselves, North Korea would not stop. They use their tactics to get what they want. I’m sure it will continue to work for them because no one wants there to be a war in that area right now. Pulling out and leaving South Korea on their own when we said we were committed to their defense would be wrong in my opinion. We said we would help them defend themselves and I think we should stick to that. That does not mean we just suddenly attack and start a war with North Korea. As it stands right now, we are trying to get the UN to put more pressure on the to stop with their attacks, including some pressure from China. They’ve been sanctioned before and they will most likely be sanctioned again.

What is the answer in your opinion? Pull all our troops out and let North Korea just walk all over South Korea?

@mammal hahaha, it’s probably because of how I’m borderline existentially nihilistic, if they all launched tomorrow, I wouldn’t have a care in the world.

@BarnacleBill okay, if you want to be politically correct, we’ve been in an international police action since 1950 in Korea, it’s not a war unless Congress approves. lol, gotta love all those loopholes.

@Seaofclouds Despite the small size of the South Korean military, I doubt that North Korea would be able to simply walk all over South Korea, South Korea is fairly well advanced technologically speaking with their weaponry and they’ve been training alongside our soldiers for almost 60 years now, they’d be able to put up a fight, for a while. Also, North Korea has a 2 kilometer thick border to cross which has around 10 million US mines and god knows how many ROK mines. Have fun walking through that.

@Winters I’m not saying it would be a walk in the park, but North Korea does have more power than South Korea (especially if we just abandon them). According to this article North Korea maintains one of the largest standing armies in the world at more than 1.1 million troops lined up opposite a force of 687,000 South Koreans and 28,500 U.S. troops, according to the Institute of Foreign Affairs and National Security. So, take away the U.S. troops, North Korea has almost double the troops that South Korea has. Not to mention they are working on nuclear weapons. I’m not saying we should just jump to war, but I think we should stay were we are and stay committed to South Korea’s defense.

@Seaofclouds I’m not saying that we shouldn’t stay, just that numbers don’t mean nearly as much today in modern warfare as they used to, especially when one side is still using what could be considered as ancient soviet technology (T-72, I laugh – and fart – in your .general direction).

Also, I doubt that North Korea would ever be willing to use nukes on South Korea especially since both sides want to be reunited, it’s just that they don’t agree on what kind of government should be in charge, they, for the most part, do see each other as fellow Koreans.

It’s not going to happen. Neither side has anything to gain by going to war. Just the North rattling their sabres, as is their want.

North Korea’s actions remind me of a child having a tantrum because his toy has been taken away. Except, it’s a nation and its access to resources have been taken away. Clearly they must be suffering.

The nuclear refining plant and the attack on a defenseless island are bluffs designed to get the West to lift the sanctions. Personally, I don’t think we should. I don’t think N. Korea is going to do anything serious, unless they have a suicidal streak. I think we should be tolerant parents and just hold the child until it calms down. No concessions; no escalation; no actions at all, really.

@wundayatta they always launch these attacks when they want food, watch, in a little while N. Korea is going to be asking for food and we’re gonna give it to them, just as we have before.

If North Korea took over South Korea, would they then have plenty of resources to be a closed nation? If they need food and other basics, does South Korea have an abundance of what they need? Or, do they just want the land?

@JLeslie possibly, South Korea is like the 12th top producer of rice. and I know they’re part of the donating effort when North Korea is experiencing famine.

The big thing here though is not land, or food, but reuniting Korea as a whole (okay, so sort of land). Both sides want the Koreas back together again, they just can’t agree on an isolated version of a communist dictatorship or a semi twisted democratic republic capitalist society or any other form of government/economy.

@Winters I think we should try not giving in this time. See what happens. I don’t think they really want a war. So what are they going to do?

@wundayatta what happens if we don’t “give in” is more people are probably going to starve to death than normal in North Korea however, there are several other countries that will probably donate food (including South Korea) so us not giving in won’t really have an effect (presuming that this is their normal “We need food and want attention cry out to the world). It’s just interesting to see that these last few attacks have been much more violent than what’s normal for North Korea.

But yes, it seems that large scale military action is the last thing that will occur. My money is on that North Korea is playing really its only card as they are an isolated nation state to draw worldwide attention to themselves, reminding the world that the little pain in the ass Kim Jung Il is still alive and kicking, unfortunately.

@Winters I think it is also relevant that N Korea is undergoing a regime change. Little Kim may be trying to show how tough he is. I.e., there’s an internal audience as well as an external audience.

We’ll see if you are right about other countries being willing to donate food if the big ones don’t. We’ll see if those donations can make it past any blockades that might be set up.

Mass starvations in N Korea in the past didn’t trigger enough help to stop the starvation as soon as possible. I don’t know if people in much of the world really care if the N Korean people starve. I’m pretty sure some governments see it as a chance to get the regime toppled.

China has given North Korea aid twice this year alone. Granted it wasn’t as much as North Korea would have liked, but they’ve still given aid. South Korea has given food in the past and invested in some North Korea companies to try to smooth things over. I completely agree that North Korea is acting like a child throwing a tantrum and also that it is a way for Little Kim to show he is going to follow along with more of the same we’ve seen from Kim Jung II.

Kim Junior is not the head of state in North Korea yet, he’s just Kim Jung Il’s heir apparent, he has no real power as of yet.

@Winters Actually they have started giving him power. I forget exactly what, but they have started putting him in charge of various things to gain support of him taking over for Kim Jung II. He’s not head of state, just in charge of some things. In the article I posted above, it says “Kim Jong Un has been named to some high-level posts recently, an indication he is being groomed to succeed his father, experts say. “Because Kim Jong Un just took power, he wanted to show to the North Korea army and the people he is brave, firm and persistent, and gain more support from the army,” said Shi Yinhong, professor at Renmin University’s School of International Relations and director of its Center for American Studies.”

If you read under the succession part of the wiki about him it talks about different positions he’s been given recently such as: “Kim Jong-un was made a Daejang, the equivalent to an American Four-Star General,[7] on 27 September 2010, a day ahead of a rare Workers’ Party of Korea conference in Pyongyang, the first time North Korean media had mentioned him by name and despite his having no previous military experience.[42][43][44] Despite the promotion, no further details, including verifiable portraits of Jong-un were released.[45] On 28 September 2010 he was named vice chairman of the Central Military Commission and appointed to the Central Committee of the Workers’ Party, in an apparent nod to become the successor to Kim Jong-il.[46]” There are a few others as well.

@Winters When countries give food and other help to North Koreans, what are the people told? Do they know it is from the generousity of other nations? From what I understand North Korean society is very closed, I assume they do not have world wide web access, and are spoon fed information about the world in general through their media.

@Seaofclouds true, but any action of that nature would have to be approved of by his father, which implies that old man Kim is still running the whole show up top. Also I doubt that Little Kim currently has been able to do much with his power as he is been receiving surgery for a while now to get him to look more and more like Kim Il Song.

@JLeslie I think that some people are aware that something is definitely not right as there are many North Koreans that escape every year and either settle down in China or make the very long journey to South Korea (They have to go through China to a Southeast Asian country where they seek refuge in a South Korean Embassy who then get them a life in South Korea).

@Winters Interesting. I was unaware they get out. I know very little about North Korea. Are families split? Do they have relatives in South Korea? I don’t know the history behind how the country was split.

@JLeslie – This recent British Channel 4 documentary may help: Dispatches – Undercover in the secret state of North Korea this is part one make sure you watch all five.

It means that the general population of Koreans would drop drastically. :)

@JLeslie Yes there are many families that are split, can’t remember the exact year but in the 90’s there was a very touching reunion between a guy and his mother who had been split for over 40 years, I think it was fairly big news worldwide.

The country was split because after WW2, and the conquests of Japan were split up, the commies got the Northern half of Korea while we occupied the Southern half, hence the communist and capitalist influences on those halves that still exist today. Pretty simply, war broke out because much like today, both sides wanted to be back together but didn’t know which government was the legit one of Korea so the North came swooping in pushing South Korean and present American forces all the way back down to around Pusan. When more forces were able to muster, we pushed North Korean forces all the way too and slightly past Korea’s border with China under a year’s time. That’s when China involved their military and we were stuck at more or less of a standstill at the 38th parallel until a ceasefire was called at which point the DMZ was established.

Also something to note is that both the North and the South went as far as to draft men off the street for the war. Thus as you can imagine there are especially many sons, husbands, and fathers split from the rest of their families.

@Winters I remember them talking about taking young teen boys off the street to fight on MASH. You say the commies got North Korea, is that under Russian occupation? Like East Germany? But, the North Koreans have their own government. I thought what happened in Germany was the Russians finally left, when the wall came down (maybe they still have some military bases there? And, the Germans obviously wanted a democracy, to be what I think they considered German, like the west. The people I know who grew up in East Germany hated the Russians. I don’t know any North Koreans, I would guess very few Americans do. I did know quite a few South Koreans growing up, but never talked politics or country with them, I was a teeanager.

I don’t see why North Korea would ever agree to unite with South Korea; it seems you would need a revolt among the people against its’ own government. The way I imagine it is Noth Korea would have to move towards being a democracy first, and then eventually maybe it could unite with South Korea.

@JLeslie There was Soviet influence, but not any true soviet control, more like establish an independent communist nation and then leave.

And you’re probably more or less right about North Korea agreeing to join South Korea, which is the same for South Korea joining the North. It would take one or the other government to fall whether to a coup or something else.

@Winters Thanks for the info :)

@JLeslie no problem

The US and NATO would be drawn into the conflict. And China would think it’s not worth the effort to get involved. North Korea would lose and the surviving people would be free at last and probably vote to get reunited with the South.

But the price is too high: Such a war would kill hundreds of thousands of innocent North and South Koreans. Just thinking of Seoul getting nuked is beyond our limited imagination.

The North Korean perverts can continue their play and there’s not much we can do about it. That’s the problem with nukes. They give dictators the power to blackmail others. The same will happen in Iran. The psychopaths will get their nukes unless Israel intervenes. And the consequences of that would make the conflict in Korea look like a minor skirmish.

i think what is sad is that the South decided to invest in an industrial complex in the North…Southern know-how, Northern workforce…not an unreasonable and tentative move toward a co-operative economic arrangement. Now then, i’m thinking who could possibly be opposed to such an arrangement, hmmm… let me think… who could possibly fathom this new found initiative as inappropriate, i wonder…..?