How difficult do you find it to take honest criticism here?

Depends on how they word it! If I read the intent as honorable, not a problem.

Is it “truly” useful? If it is,then I send them a lovely parting gift.;)

It depends on who says it and how much I value their opinion. (as in, consider the source).

I really haven’t noticed a double standard here. Of course, I want you to tell me what you’ve seen – but that would be modded away. ;-)

But is there a pattern? And are you sure that the double standard isn’t confirmation bias?

I give a cheeky & yes mischevious wry grin whilst singing “If I were a rich man, yabba dabba dabba dabba dabba dabba dabba dum! All day long i’d…...well you get the picture! :¬)

@iamthemob Another user here hates it when I criticise their comments like “this question has already been asked” on every other question. This person can’t take it and runs whining to a mod to have my criticism removed. Yet I have flagged a few of this person’s comments previously as “unhelpful” or “off topic”, and every comment remains. Apparently when you make tight friends with a mod, you call the shots.

So…this is really more of a personal issue rather than a general wonderment?

Hmm. Alright…personal, yes…but still frustrating. And also subject to less confirmation bias more than likely.

I haven’t seen a lot of critical comments.

So you’re asking if the moderators act with favoritism and/or discrimination? It’s a slippery slope. I’m sure that it’s human nature to be able to identify with your friends and more likely to agree with them. I think the moderators do their best to be unbiased but they aren’t perfect.

I don’t like seeing flags used as discussion weapons. Mainly because it disrupts the thread and I hate coming across “Response Moderated” and I want to know what was said that was so bad.

I did see an example of heavy-handed moderation yesterday on @iamthemob ‘s question that had a troll posting. This didn’t seem to be a typical troll but gave the impression of being someone familiar with the forum and the users, possibly probably a recently banned member. I didn’t see this person post anything more offensive than the typical light-hearted teasing the collective dishes out, but every single post was stricken only because the user was who he was, not because of what was said. It seemed to me more punitive than moderate.

I wandered off, but that’s what I thought of when I read your question.

@Blueroses – I only saw one of them get moderated (weird…)

I wouldn’t mind honest criticism at all. That’s what debating is all about.
However if the criticism became personal then I wouldn’t be happy about it.

I welcome honest criticism and just means less Christmas Cards I have to send out! :)

I’ve easily been modded over 100 times. Probably 97 of those I fully expected because I knew I was ‘breaking the rules’, so as far as I’m concerned the mods have cut me a lot of slack. Go Fluther mod team, go! Thanks for not sending me a nasty PM saying “would you PLEASE stop posting ‘social’ style comments in the General section? Enough already!!” that I know I deserved about 8 or 9 months ago.

I talk to Augustlan in PM’s every single day probably, but despite our friendship she doesn’t hesitate for a moment before nuking my posts that are nuke-worthy. She doesn’t show favoritism.

I agree with @FutureMemory – I have a good relationship with the mod team but they have no issue w/modding me and I have no issue with them doing so.

I’m not sure what kind of critical comments you are talking about. Are they the kind where someone tell you you are wrong? Or are they the kind where someone tells you you smell like 100 cows pressed into a small area on a really hot day?

It’s pretty easy to take care of the latter. Clearly someone ain’t got nothing. It’s also not hard to deal with the former, so long as you are willing to listen and try to understand the other person’s point. I can deal with that with little difficulty.

Or is there something else you are talking about?

It’s times like this where it might be useful to take a step back, take a good look at yourself, and see if there’s anything about your behavior that might account for this supposed target on your back.

I don’t know how many times I’ve been modded, but almost everyone of the answers I’ve been modded for start off with an apology to the mods. The rules are pretty clear and I repect the mods for what they do. If somebody has something to say to me that’s sincere, I have no problem with it.

@wundayatta The kind where someone tells you you’re wrong. It’s not a personal vendetta here… it’s that I see other comments from people saying things like “if you don’t like it that it’s a duplicate question, then don’t read it and quit telling me what to do” and various sniping comments in that nature. When I comment like that towards this particular user, they have their mod buddy remove my comment because it was a “personal attack”.

I didn’t name call, I used honest criticism and flat out said all the “this question has been asked before” was whiney, unhelpful, repetitive and annoying. If that’s a “personal attack” then fluther can ban my ass right now, because I have no intention of stopping calling a spade a spade.

@ Xena There’s a target on my back only because of this specific user, who can’t take criticism so instead has a mod friend kill my comments to them. It’s pathetic, kindergarten behavior.

@WillWorkForChocolate – what did you DO to these people!?!? ;-)

@Simone_De_Beauvoir It’s both. I’ve noticed this a few times where some people are left alone when they make sniping remarks, yet others are modded quickly. And one thing I’ve noticed is that the ones who don’t get modded are usually very friendly with the mods. I only asked about it now because I’m stuck in this loop where none of this particular user’s comments get modded, even though I and a few others have flagged them as unhelpful and off topic, yet my comments regarding it get removed immediately. And that user is really tight with the mods.

@iamthemob Not a blasted thing.

@WillWorkForChocolate I’ve never noticed this kind of issue but perhaps I am biased in that I am okay with the mods – however, I do know that they’re very good with separating their mod and personal personas when they speak to me…I can get pms from the mods that will be marked that they are talking to me as mods and unmarked if they’re talking to me as friends…so while I don’t know all mods as much as I know some of the mods, I do think they’re able to separate these two activities in their lives. Besides, every one of the mods generally sees what the rest are doing – the kind of bias you speak of wouldn’t be unnoticed and in general, talk to Augustlan.

life is unfair to everyone.

that makes it fair.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir Thanks for that answer love, but I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. In my experience, people in power of anything, even small power over website comments, will always be biased when it comes to people they are friends with, and people they don’t really care for as much.

I do honestly see what you’re saying, and I don’t technically have a problem with the mods in general, I just think those of us who haven’t gotten as friendly and personal with them get the shaft sometimes.

@WillWorkForChocolate Well, I can’t argue with perceptions – your fluther experience might be different from mine.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir I’m sure everyone’s experiences here are different! :) That’s what makes this a great place to be. Usually, anyway.

I just want to say I love the name of the above poster!!!

I’ve decided to let comments remain, unless it’s name calling or directed towards my family. I wanted to flag an answer directed towards me today, but decided not too. Let everyone see what an ass this person was being. ;)

I avoid all of this stuff by not flagging anything other than spam. Even if someone were to call me “a fucking bitch” out of nowhere, I probably wouldn’t flag it. Last night someone called one of my questions “stupid and…” (I can’t remember what else right now), so I just said “fuck you, asshole”. I then edited my response, but whatever. I behave toward others how they behave toward me, pretty much. If they acted like a jackass, I prefer their comment remain so that others can see their behavior.

You guys read way too much into things. No one is out to get you, no one on the mod team is abusing their powers and there is no purposeful double standard. However, I must say, if I were a mod and I continued to see questions like this asked rather than for the individual to reach out to the mod team/staff/etc., then it would be difficult to not want to play the double standard card.

@free_fallin then it would be difficult to not want to play the double standard card

and seeing that you are really tight with the staff and mods, I sure hope that type of thinking doesn’t rub off onto them ;)

@jonsblond heh Not sure I’d say I’m “tight” with them, but I definitely don’t envy their job. I’m a fair person so I doubt I’d ever actually do that, but the thought would cross my mind.

Two words for you guys: lesbian cabal. Shhhh.

However, I must say, if I were a mod and I continued to see questions like this asked rather than for the individual to reach out to the mod team/staff/etc., then it would be difficult to not want to play the double standard card.

Not necessarily. I’ve been a volunteer in organizations where I had power over others, and despite the abuse we took, we were selected to be the members-with-power-over-others because of our high integrity. There were people I can honestly say I hated in the organization, but when decisions were made concerning those members I didn’t let my personal feelings affect my ‘mod’ duties.

Like Michael Corleone said, “it’s business – never personal.”

@Xena LOL!

@Xena omgosh, lol, am I part of it? wait a second, who’s a lesbian on the mod team? tell me!

@Xena I thought it was “those 3 Fluther lesbians”?

@Simone You’re a cabal all by yourself.

[mod says] Having the inside knowledge behind this question, I’ll answer it as fully as I can without violating member privacy.

@WillWorkForChocolate The particular answers from this other member that have been flagged as ‘unhelpful’ are not viewed as such by the mod team. While posting a link to a duplicate question might be annoying to some, it can actually be helpful… pointing the asker of the newer question to more answers. So, they don’t get removed unless they also contain a personal attack or something. In several of these cases, a snippy remark or outright personal attack on the link poster has followed, and this behavior has spread across several threads. Harassing another member is not acceptable, under any circumstances. That’s why those comments get removed.

Once an answer has been flagged, the community has to trust the mod team to handle it appropriately. Flag it and walk away. Don’t make it a personal mission to stop someone’s ‘annoying’ behavior. If it falls outside of the guidelines, we’ll handle it… no matter who the member is. There is absolutely no link to “being close to the mod team” and getting away with bad behavior. I have personally modded many mods and even site founders, and have had to ban personal friends.

That said, we are not infallible. We are only human, after all, and we make mistakes, too. If someone feels that is the case, the best course of action is to contact a mod directly.

@FutureMemory I completely agree. Perhaps I should have added the ~ behind my last statement as it was said sarcastically.

I just want to step in and remind people to flag.

Sometimes we are busy (we all have real jobs and school etc) and only have time to evaluate the quip that has been flagged. Then action is taken on just the flagged quip without us having time to read the whole thread.
This is just us being busy- there is no bias or favoritism at all.

Please flag anything you think is inappropriate- even if it is several flags in one question.

The idea of the mod team having double-standards and playing favorites is really flawed. There are fifteen of us. fifteen. Plus five staff members. (For a reminder, Here is the list of mods. Staff is Andrew, Ben, Timtrueman, Richardhenry, and Camertron) And I promise you, we do not all run in the same social circle.

Even if I were to personally vow I would never moderate @Simone_De_Beauvoir (hi!), there are still fourteen other mods who can look at her quips and judge for themselves.
But there is no user whom I refuse to moderate. Sure, there are users I am more reluctant to moderate, based on how much they tend to contribute to the community, but there are no users whom I would not moderate.

It’s obvious that there are a lot of pairs of users who have problems with each other. But it seems like they get blinded with their rage at the user and don’t even realize what the post they made meant. Additionally, it seems like one of the users is a lot more vile with their distaste than the other one is. The nastier you are, the shorter the leash you are on the “Personal attack” moderation button.

I’d like to see this lesbian cabal. Don’t worry, I won’t interrupt, only watching.

I’ll admit it, I have a problem with people online criticizing me, even if it’s constructive. I mean, nobody on here knows me, and the perception that one has of another online I don’t think is quite accurate of how the person really is, unless you’ve been speaking to them quite often beyond participating on here, so unless the criticism applies to suggested website or forum rules and etiquette, I don’t wanna hear it lol. I always get pissed and go like, who the hell does this person think they are, to so judge and criticize me this way? What makes them think they know me so well?
For this I’m going more along the lines of people nitpicking at views and opinions and thinking I could improve or look at things in other ways…as I said, as far as behaviour and stuff like that goes when it comes to website rules, I’m all for it and will listen to the criticism.
I don’t wanna go on a whole rant about this, it just seems to me that ’‘criticism’’ online is not real, and is often some washed up attempt by a person to bash you or elevate themselves through your faults, mistakes or whatever. The hell with that. And even if it is real, as I said, you don’t know me, get lost lol.

As far as mods being biased, that’s been discussed so many times, and most likely will again. I’ll skip on it.

@Symbeline – Good SHOW on admitting that. I think you’re the first person on the thread to admit that, regardless of merit, you get offended when criticized.

I’d like to say I don’‘t. I try really hard not to show it, at least.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir – Do I need to get a bigger rainbow flag?

I have no problems with criticism. Y’all can say what you want about me.

As for the bias in moderation, I’ll say what I’ve said when the issues comes up: it’s better than what it used to be, but it is still not (and will never be) perfect. I used to flag a lot, particularly in General (not as much lately because I’ve been busier and because I became somewhat disenchanted with the whole helping-to-improve-the-site idea after this question). During the course of my flagging, I noticed that some posts remained, some because there was (what I’d concede was) a difference of opinion, but some times some posts were, IMO, clearly unhelpful or “moddable”. This latter category was usually posted by long-time users. Coincidence? I don’t think so. Proof of a major conspiracy to only mod some people? No.

@augustlan I’m sorry, but I don’t see all the MANY MANY comments about “see this similar question” or “this has already been asked” to be helpful at all. I really don’t. Nor do many other users here. It happens so often that it’s just gotten repetitive and annoying. Who really cares it it’s a question that’s been asked before? Many people like to ask similar questions to get different answers and opinions from whoever didn’t comment on the previous one.

And let’s not forget that there are constantly new users on here, who haven’t seen the “similar question”. And posting “see this similar question” repeatedly does nothing but irritate people who just want to answer the current version of the question.

Now I’d like to draw attention to the fact that there was a disagreement in the last couple of days because someone on a different question said “this has been asked in the past”. Several comments flew back and forth and you could tell they were angry/frustrated comments. None of those were modded; they were left alone. Yet when I commented to a specific user that their similar comment was unhelpful and nothing short of irritating, I was the one who got modded. Sorry, but I DO see a double standard there.

As to the dual sided nature of flagging and such- when a person begins making the “similar question” and such comments to a specific user, totally out of spite, those comments can also be construed as a personal attack if you want to be perfectly technical about what a “personal attack” is. Yet none of the comments I flagged as such were removed. Only mine were.

And I’ll admit I’ve been pissy about the mods in the past, so I never made any friends there. Maybe if I’d kissed a little more butt and refused to question authority, it wouldn’t be such an issue. My bad.

@WillWorkForChocolate Do you still have your receipt? Maybe you can get your money back.

In every single question like this, the OP ends up making a ridiculous assumption and ending with a rude remark, like you did, @WillWorkForChocolate. None of the mods have been ugly to you on this thread, nor have any of us users. Calm down, step away from fluther and think before you type.

Part of the social experiment here @WillWorkForChocolate is to determine if the new users can be encouraged to use the search feature first, and contribute to an already established thread. That’s the way it works on Frostcloud, where threads have been alive for years with thousands of responses.

But Fluther is definitely different than Frostcloud, as it seems to invite off the cuff questions that do nothing more than start up casual conversations… for the sake of company. Not all questions mind you, but many are ill conceived out of boredom rather than genuine inquiry. I am probably the most guilty of all at this.

“Sorry, but I DO see a double standard”

I did too. And still do sometimes. But the longer I stick around here I fully realize and appreciate the underlying goal to keep Fluther troll free, and to encourage actual thought going into a question. The search engine is there for a reason, and I’m consistently updated with new answers to very very old questions that I’m still following.

I took it personally sometimes too. And honestly, I still feel that sometimes it was. But I earned Fluther’s lack of trusting me, actually getting banned a couple of times for three months. Soon enough I discovered that Fluther is not my personal playground. There are flowers here previously grown by others. The gardeners simply want to protect those flowers, whilst encouraging new users to plant their own. We’re all free to start our own personal garden if we don’t like this one.

Don’t take it personally. It’s not, mostly. And in the rare cases it may be, consider the benefits of developing a thicker skin and not being so sensitive. Different guards in the guard tower have slightly different methods of watching over the yard.

I think a whole bunch of people on this thread should really be communicating via PMs rather than airing a whole bunch-a dirty whatnots. ;-)

names please

I don’t see a “double standard”. My views on many issues are probally more in the minority then anybody else’s and by a long shot while I’m at at. I made sure I had read the majority of posts on here before I joined so I was fully aware that my beliefs and opinions were in the minority. I don’t mind different viewpoints and debating them. Dam I do this all the time.

@iamthemob Anytime you’re ready, pal. I got a mod or two in my back pocket – you feelin’ lucky? Well fire off those PM’s and make-my-day.

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies The main problem with using the search feature is that even if you do find an older question that you want to answer, you hardly ever get a response. Some of the “similar questions” are two years old. Kind of hard to resurrect them and get new responses, except from people who are still following them. There again is another problem, many users who follow questions remove those questions from their activity after a while.

Sometimes it’s good to ask a question that was asked previously, simple because it has been so long and there are many people who never saw the original one to begin with. And besides, what’s wrong with getting new points of view? People’s opinions on various subjects are liable to change at different points in their life anyhow. You could answer a question one way, then months or even a year or two later see a similar question, and you have since changed your mind.

I agree. Think of how classy it would be if both of us started new repeating Q’s with “Inspired by this old Thread”…

Alas, that would be a hassle. Nothing wrong with new points of view. Nothing right about not considering the older ones.

@everyone else above- I don’t really care if what I said in my comment to augustlan sounded rude. It was intended to because I’m not a sheep and when I see double standards and injustice (yes, even slight injustice on a website) I don’t just mill around with my head down. I speak up because it really “gets my goat”.

And I consistently see questions where specific users have an argument and nothing is done about it, and yet other questions where someone makes an argumentative comment and it’s modded. Usually the unmodded ones are from long time users who have a sort of “seniority” and from people who are chummy with the mods. Whether the mods choose to see it or admit it as a double standard or not, it is.

no need for rudeness, unless you’re speaking to me

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies That one wasn’t directed at you.

Remember this day @WillWorkForChocolate. Mark my words, when you hit 15K or so you will find someone else talking about the very same things that you are right now. The mods have heard it all and so have the 10K plus members. You will too, and when you do, you’ll just roll your eyes and sigh.

And yes, I know your comment wasn’t directed at me… but if it was, could you please be a wee bit more rude next time… thank you very much

People keep mentioning this “seniority” stuff, but honestly, can the people who keep saying that tell me, exactly, what qualifies someone to fall into that position? One year? Two years? Three years? And how can someone tell who is chummy with the mods? Honestly?

I’m getting really frustrated with stuff here lately. For no other reason than the fact that stuff like this constantly comes up now. I’ve seen it before, and it won’t end well. I’ve been here a while and I just don’t get why people have these issues. I’ve been modded a few times – justifiably – when I flew off the handle and said something about murdering a pedophile… AHEMbutthatwasthepastsowe’llforgetallaboutthat.

But the thing is… It’s a damn website. Ignore idiots, ask and answer questions you like, interact with people you enjoy. That’s really all it comes down to.

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies Not sure I have anymore left at the moment. Rain check?

@DrasticDreamer LOL, love the “ahem”.

BTW… I’ve had at least three questions removed and ten responses modded in the past week alone. I’ve learned to not even bother questioning the reasoning. The fact that someone had their reasons is good enough for me. I’m not here to judge the site. I’m here to try and get along with others and play nice, even if I get a little sand in my sandals.

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies I get that, and it’s not being modded in general that has me so frustrated. It’s the fact that other users have argued about a similar problem on another recent question and it wasn’t touched. But just because I specifically PM’d this particular user and requested they please stop posting about similar questions on every other question they answer, the user pathetically took the time to search out one of my questions and post it there out of spite, and has been flagging me ever since, whenever I comment that “see this similar question” and other tetchy remarks are unhelpful and just annoying. And my comments get removed because of it, yet none of theirs do. It’s ridiculous.

I’m sure that’s very frustrating. PM’ing you now.

I don’t think we are hearing all the details of this story.

@WillWorkForChocolate The thing about some arguments getting modded while others don’t all depends on if those other arguments were noticed. If the two parties in the argument didn’t flag each other and no one else did, it may have gotten passed the mods. Since you and that other particular person keep flagging each other (from what you’ve written), it brings your posts and their posts to the attention of the mods. Some people don’t flag users that attack them, instead they let the post stand because it doesn’t bother them. As far as why some posts in your situation have been removed while others haven’t, I think @augustlan did a good job in explaining that. Just because you and some others don’t go back and read over the old answers, it doesn’t mean some of us don’t. I quite enjoy seeing how people felt on an issue a year or two years ago and seeing if they’ve changed since then (for the ones still participating on Fluther).

@WillWorkForChocolate All I can do is assure you, once again, that we are not targeting you specifically. I promise. I think, at this point, the very best course of action is for you and this other party to completely ignore one another. No communication in threads or via PMs.

For the record, I had to sleep with @Sarcasm (hi) in order for him to vow to never mod me, something that is news to me, btw…because the sex itself was worth it.

Gee, my daughter’s a mod and I still don’t get a free pass. I’ve been modded! What’s up with that? I was sorta counting on mod bias! But noooooo. Geez.

@JilltheTooth EXACTLY. GA.

Do I need to sleep with @Sarcasm too? I still get modded….

@Dog Hey, baby, how about you just sleep with me and I’ll put in a good word for ya with my boy.

@WillWorkForChocolate I’ve seen a few examples of what you’re saying. Sometimes I’m on your side, sometimes not. I’ve seen you rant and I’ve seen you praise. I’ve seen people come down hard on you and I’ve seen them flock to your side when you need them.
Families are dysfunctional and we don’t always please each other.
but you’re still pretty :-)

@Simone_De_Beauvoir Well- logistically @Sarcasm is a short drive south… but I do love the East Coast… especially in the fall…

@Dog :)

@Simone_De_Beauvoir LOL! But I don’t want to sleep with the mods…

@WillWorkForChocolate Oh, but you have to – you’ll see when you get 20K points – otherwise they don’t let you come back

@Simone_De_Beauvoir Oh shit. Then I need to lose 20 pounds and get a bikini wax….

@WillWorkForChocolate make sure you use protection. I got this really annoying rash. ugh

@jonsblond Ooohhh dear, thanks for the warning.

I feel left out! I’ve never had (to my knowledge) an answer of mine modded. Maybe this will get me flagged.

@prolificus Oh how thou tempteth me…~

I don’t know how anyone would know what someone else’s relationship is with the mods.

@prolificus lousy vikings

As to the question, I don’t receive much criticism here from other members. I do, however, dish out quite a bit, mostly in the form of grammar or spelling corrections.
The way I look at it, if I spellled something incorrrectly, I’d want some one too let me know so I didnt do it again. ~

@breedmitch too/to… but of course you baited me. Troll.

removed by me.

I’ll keep my criticism to myself. Why go there….doesn’t accomplish a thing. Tomorrow people will not even remember this question. If someone wants to stroke their ego by being critical of me, I’ve learned to say, “thank you, I needed that I’m sure!” “Have a good day!”

Actually, I kind of get what @WillWorkForChocolate is saying. For me it hasnt’ been so much about being told not to post a question because it has been asked before (I don’t ask a whole lot of questions, typically). I find that I can look beyond a user having a bad day and making a comment from that locale in their psyche, but there is one user that has consistently been snarky toward me.

I can’t find that I did anything to provoke it, but it has gone on since I arrived at Fluther. I would say that it has to be more than a bad day (year), but I don’t know why I provoke this user so much. Each remark, taken by itself, isn’t worth flagging. It is the collection of them that is wearing and tedious.

At one point I thought the user had an issue with my being gay (or hates dog avatars) or some other trifling concern. This kept me away from Fluther for a while until I realized I was only hurting myself. Now when I see this user’s avatar, I just skip what he/she has to say. If this user asks questions, I skip them completely because I know I will regret the snide or mean-spirited responses this user typically gives me. I also have a sense that this user doesn’t have much of a life outside QA sites and I take that into consideration as well.

I came here to learn things and I consistently realize I learn more about myself everyday. I learn valuable lessons with direct real world application (putting up with people, ignoring some people), feeling compassion for some people who, in my opinion, choose to limit themselves and the edges of their respective worlds.

@Kayak8 Thanks for that.

I’m pretty much over it all now. I ranted and got it out of my system. Anyway, I’ve been told to completely ignore the other user, or I’ll probably get a time out. Strange how it all goes back to kindergarten.

Join the club. Many of us have been through it.

And the funny thing about it is that some of my worst early nemisisisisess have become some of my best online companions. Hate it when that happens…

you know who you are

There’s a difference between attacking a person and disagreeing with an opinion of a person. We are all human beings. Not being emotional is impossible when it comes to the so-called primary emotions. We will always experience these emotions, but then we got some options and we can make choices.

Secondary and ternary emotions depend on our socialization which is process of inheriting norms, customs and ideologies. We can consciously think about what we have read on Fluther. And we do have a choice before we answer. In my experience personal attacks are the result of unreflected primary emotions. See

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_emotions#Emotions_by_groups

If anger leads to irritation for example, it is possible to express this in your reply. You are talking about yourself and how you feel. And this is fine, because it’s not a personal attack. You tell others that you are irritated or frustrated.

It’s not paranoia if they REALLY are out to get you.