Do you know any martial arts? If not, is there a certain type you'd like to learn? Which is it?

Aikido (aikikai), Judo. I’d like to learn Aikido (it’s vast). Also yoshinkan aikido (extremely faster version, but “dumber” for the beginning stages).

I really need to learn Jiujitsu or BJJ.
I’d like to do kick-boxing for a little while. Or find a dojo that does competitive aikido.

I’m interested in any martial art that is true to that, applicable in martial situations. Street fights, defending yourself from real situations without slowing down due to rules and limitations. Instead exploring all the options available. Of course, use appropriate action depending on the situation. But the truth is, most real life violence is between multiple attackers and very often many versus one. In which case, you need to be as lethal, disabling/controlling and as fast as you can.

Though, with single, or easily controllable situations – if you’re given time. You can pin people down, calm them. And try to resolve the situation peacefully.

Your post impresses me. I don’t know much about fighting, but thanks for the information, and the reality check. :)
Aikido is that stuff with the swords, or katanas, if you will?

@Symbeline yes, but really the use of swords is so that the practitioners learn better control of footwork and movement in space. Movement, its timing and detail are crucial to martial arts. And especially this one. You learn your 8 directions with a bokken (wooden katana) and also a jo (standard stick). But what’s more important is your movement, making these automatic and easy, because techniques build on top of that.

Aikido is a mind-scramble, there’s so much depth to each technique.
But to give you a taste. It is an art that uses the opponent’s momentum, direction, force – body mechanics and gravity against him. You can go from a standing position to a forced pin, or to a throw and pin depending. Depending on the dojo – and I’d go with aikikai or yoshinkan, you get lots of hands on practice in applying the techniques in real-like situations as well as learning the basic forms. The real tests come from integration in real time versus multiple attackers that can come from anywhere with any technique. You have to learn how to control space and decide the fight – read body movements, blend etc. Use different amounts of force depending on your options. But often a punch or “Atemi” while doing technique may be your best option if low on option/time. It’s a good art to consider, I’d google aikiweb to check dojos.

@phoebusg Wow, really? That’s interesting about Aikido, the footwork and all that.
I also heard that fighting with a katana doesn’t look like it does in the movies. Most of it is wristwork, and you only strike your opponent with the tip of the blade, rather than all of it, like you do with fencing. Is that true?

@Symbeline it’s not like fencing no. There’s lots of blending and deflections used in aikido-sword practice. So that you can gain momentum for a strike through defense and blending the two seamlessly. You do try to chop people in half – but practicing with an experienced swordsman, it’s more of a deflection to deflection fight. First to make a mistake may lost a wrist – big mistakes cost you your life.

Watching two very well practiced swordsmen can take a while though. Well practiced vs newbie – seconds :P

I’ve dabbled in Judo, wrestling (freestyle and collegiate mostly, with a tiny bit of greco-roman), boxing, combatives and Taekwondo. I’d love to learn some Krav Maga, muay thai, fencing/kendo, and jujitsu.

@Winters krav maga looks a lot like aikido. And depending on the dojo, can be almost identical. Muay thai has some very good knee, elbow and general strikes and stances that are nice to know. Tae was always too flashy and seemingly inefficient for me. I prefer the quick to target moves. The more time off your feet, the more vulnerable you are. Although one could argue, that depends on the speed of the attacker. But kicking is generally a bad idea outside of a ring. Unless you’re really quick to regaining your full balance.

@phoebusg Awesome. I think I wanna learn that now lol. Does Aikido in real life look like anything in the movies at all?

@Symbeline who is your reference? If seagal, then yeah most of the time. But he uses his strengths, body size etc. So he’s modified techniques to work best for him. Being someone with a smaller body, you have to modify techniques accordingly. Ironically, women do better in aikido because they have to. Most can’t use brute-force, so they learn the technique faster because it works.

I’d say check out youtube, look for demonstrations of big dojos.

My reference for Aikido are movies like Zatoichi or Shogun Assassin. I’m actually unsure of all the sword arts used in those though…

My sensei runs this channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/nwaikikai

I have a fair bit of experience with a few forms, but I have not trained now in over 2–3 years. I remember it all, but im totally out of shape. Black belt first dan in shotokan, brown belt in hanko-ryu. I have also done from a couple of weeks to a couple of months in a bunch of other styles, but even though I have a black belt, a blue belt could run circles around me at the moment.

@poisonedantidote Shotokan is karate right? I took Yosekan for like…six months, then I dropped out lol. XD
It’s awesome, don’t get me wrong; just too much for me.

@Symbeline aikido may work for you then. It’s actually an issue, it’s too optimized, you do get a work out because of the training. But nowhere near as much as say karate or tae. It is very optimized. Go to the gym after for a bigger workout, like sensei does :P

Being in top shape is a plus to be more effective. Though using aikido you could get away with being lazy. Letting your attackers doing the run-around :P

@Symbeline yea it’s karate, It’s a very “stiff” and “robotic” style. Every hit is intended to oblitorate, hanko-ryu is very similar in technique and form, but it’s much “lighter” and “fluid”, I find it much more comfortable.

Obliterate? Really? Our sensei said it was for self defense primarily. But I guess it depends on which style?

@phoebusg I smoke and I’m an alcoholic, I don’t think I could really learn that, but I do like the sound of it. Swords are cool, too. :)

@Symbeline all the more reason to do aikido. It has a spiritual side. Stands for, the way of harmony with the universe. You can meditate, and do practice in real-world like full effect randori.

@phoebusg What does randori mean?

@Symbeline it’s free-style sparring sessions. Many configurations: All vs one (the whole dojo), 3 vs 1 is common, 2 vs one for space training and reversals (2 directions for the beginning). 1 vs 1. Now, sometimes sensei will have you attack and defend in a certain way, which is not really randori. But others, you’ll just have a go at defending against a random attack. Importance is given in the intent behind the attacks, training vs “fake” attacks only teaches you to defend against that. There are some minor accidents, but that’s to be expected. Needless to say, you learn much faster after you get bonked a few times :P

Well, thats a different thing. most teachers now days will say it’s for self defense. What I was trying to explain, was that shotokan does not really train you for any light blows.

For example, in shito-ryu you stand slightly higher, with the feet closer together, and you will some times use a light jab or two before the real hard hit comes. With shotokan, you sit much lower to the grownd, with the feet further away from each other, and every hit is as hard as it can be.

Also, I have trained at a few places, one place was the UK (3–6 years ago), with lots of health and safety laws, there karate is more of a sport and only ever for self defense. Another place I trained was here in Spain (15–10 years ago), with much fewer health and safety laws. When I trained in the UK we only ever made real light contact with the body, and never to the face. In Spain, you could hit the body quite hard, and only light contact to the face. In the UK I was training with children 70% of the time, in Spain I used to train with adults only. While training in the UK I was not injured once, Training here in Spain I had my nose broken a few times, and had by fair share of bruises.

So, in the UK I trained “self defense” and it was hanko-ryu, but in spain I had “fighting practice”.

@poisonedantidote I prefer the fighting practice. My sensei may be called rough sometimes—but he likes to prepare us for what’s out there. Instead of building fake confidence and not really having that many options up there. We spend at least a couple days a week doing street-fight situations where we “forget the forms”, but not really. Now that I’m moving to Greece I’ll definitely miss him… but looking forward to checking out the dojos there.

I still remember knife defense vividly, and the dents I got in my arms as the attacker. Sometimes the best move is to attack the hand from a safe angle and inflict a helluva lot of pain. But when you train – you have to keep attacking, even if your brain is telling you not to :P

@poisonedantidote Oh okay I see. Be trained for harder blows, to avoid them and counter them, that makes sense, as it should for an art that teaches to defend oneself. So if one wanted to learn this for real, you’d have to do some research, right? Not every street corner dojo in Montréal is gonna do the job, right?

@phoebusg I don’t understand anything besides learning faster after getting fucked out a couple of times lol, but I thank you for the information. Did I learn anything at all lol?

@Symbeline there’s 20 aikido dojos in Montreal according to aikiweb. Lots of aikikai dojos, 1 yoshinkan but the sensei is only 2nd dan. Could still be pretty decent though. I’d really check this though: http://www.mcgillaikido.com/

@phoebusg Sounds good, yea, i cant say im a fan of the light stuff. It’s not so much a false confidence thing, it’s just bad training. I have seen quite a few people go in to a real fight pulling their punches because of it. If you train to stop your fist an inch from the face, chances are you will do the same in a real fight.

I’m quite a fan of the bruce lee methods, lots of punch bags and pads.

@Symbeline If you want to learn for real, just find a teacher. Bad martial arts teachers do exist, some have no idea what they are doing, but most countries have regulations when it comes to karate. I would say to stay away from “self defense lessons” or “self defense for women” and things that go by names like that.

You want to look for someone who teaches at least 50 children and at least 20 adults. When you go to the dojo, keep an eye out for pictures. If the instructor has a photo of his teacher, and a photo of the style’s founder, chances are he is taking it more seriously.

When you go in, ask “how long would it take me to reach black belt”. If they say 1–2 years walk away, the proper answer is 8 to 12 years. Also, keep an eye out for respect, do they bow when they enter the dojo to respect the room? or do they just walk in talking? ... when they finish the lesson, do the students stand back and let the teacher leave the room first? or do they all rush out in any old fashion? things like that.

As luck has it, it is very easy to spot a teacher who is just a thug teaching people how to bash others.

I did karate when i was younger, joined a Georgetown University martial arts club. The style taught was Isshyn Ryu [Okinawan] I think it means way of the heart. It was a positive experience, improved my balance and overall fitness, and gave me a modicum of fighting ability, was socially and culturally interesting, and the post-promotional drinking bouts, which are part of the karate tradition, were mega-legendary. Weapons were not used until advanced levels.

As far as real life use. Usually best course is to avoid the conflict. And in today’s street scenes, don’t forget all those movies where the guy starts his martial arts defense and the other guy just hauls out a gun and shoots him.

@poisonedantidote good advice. I must say, I didn’t appreciate my sensei as much at first. Before I looked around, did judo for a bit. Then realized that he puts his heart into it, and thinks a lot about the real-life implications of positions and moves. He maintains a close connection with his sensei, and o-sensei’s picture is always up. We also do it japanese-style in terms of etiquette.

@phoebusg Yea, things are always much better when there is proper etiquette. I have not trained here in Spain for a long time now. I even smoke, and smoke weed some times too. But after all the etiquette and respect things, when I see my old teacher walking down the street, if I’m smoking, I’ll throw it away before I’m seen. I’m convinced he would beat the crap out of me if he spotted me smoking, even 10 years on.

@poisonedantidote hahaha, don’t you love the sensei-student relationship? There’s some special kind of love there. I’ve gotten all kinds of advice and discussion with sensei.

@phoebusg I’m checking out the site now. Seems pretty interesting, and if I’m not mistaken this is right at the uni I go to for school. This might actually be kinda cool, thanks for the head’s up. I mean that too; I probably won’t do it…but if I change my mind, the info and knowledge you’ve shared are sure gonna help.

@poisonedantidote Thanks for the tips…that really makes me think. I never knew ANY of that, besides the bowing part. If I ever DO get into martial arts seriously, it isn’t for hurting people, but just getting a bit more into shape and doing something cool at the same time.

@anartist Yeah, when I took Yosekan Karate, they said you can choose to learn how to use bos and sais up to green belt, but as Mister Miyagi says, belts are used to hold up your pants. XD What other weapons are used in Karate?

Symbelline you can do a lot even out of condition. I trained for the marine corps marathon in my 50s and did not quit smoking til half way through my training and I still finished [I was not trying to break any records, just to finish]. And I did this the year I had just lost my 15-year job and the year my father died.

@phoebusg Yea, we even used to go on trips. I remember me and the entire class sailed to an island called cabrera a few times to see the castle, and we used to go to water parks and things too. I have even been out drinking with him a couple of times over the years.

@poisonedantidote a style that has you centered lower and wider to achieve maximum stability and force would also hamper speed, dexterity, and fluidity, would it not? Might not a shotokan student be vulnerable to students of faster more fluid styles.

Stand like a mountain or flow like a river?

I’d say – what counts is the strikes that hit, and how they hit. Rather than just powerful strikes that don’t hit most of the time. You’d run out of juice faster. But of course, all depends—on the martial artist and his conditioning.

One of my instructors used to get stoned and practice his katas by candlelight.

I really like “natural strikes” that arise from defensive motions, blending the two into one. And using strikes from the core, in the fluid motion of each specific situation. Rather than blocky, set attacks. The spring action of defending, and attacking almost in one after a while is very powerful. I love my sensei for implementing that heavily.

@anartist Yea, it is quite a disadvantage. Having said that, you will only really feel how slow it has made you if you go up against another martial artist, if you just fight a normal person you will still be much faster.

The main problem with too much wide stance, is not that it makes you slower, rather that you never learn how to deal with “in-fighting”. If you stand far away from someone who is trained in shotokan they will rip you to pieces, but if you get in close it’s easy to get them on the run.

If I got in to a fight now days it would be quite interesting and strange, I have a very odd way of fighting now days. I only really favor and use a few moves. Over the years I have found what is most useful to me and stick to it. If i got in to a fight, im sure that 99% of the time, my opening move would be a frontal kick to the stomach, followed by a right hander. If either of them land, the fight is over. It’s not like the movies hehe, 1 good hit will end a fight.

I studied Kyuki-do and loved it. Kyu Ki Do takes the best parts of Tae Kwon Do, Kung Fu, Karate, Hapki Do and Judo / Jiu Jitsu and melds them into a very effective and easily learned martial art.

Tai-chi is good martial art for you to get into. Its very relaxing and all the moves are self defence moves. Takes alot of patience though.

I study Gōjū-ryū. There’s a lot of Tai Chi-like elements in it.

I did Tae Kwon Do and some MMA stuff for a while. I learned a little bit of urban self-defense stuff from this class I took for a while. A lot of it had questionable utility to it- I got to shoot a tear gas grenade launcher and learned a few knife fighting skills and how to fight using a car door and stuff like that- but it was all a lot of fun.

I also learned that you never, ever, ever want to get into a knife fight because you will get fucked up. Oh, and how to break someone’s fingers while taking a handgun away from them.

I really want to learn Krav Maga. It’s basically the art of brutal ass-kicking as developed by a bunch of Israelis. There is no mystical philosophy behind it, and it doesn’t have any pretense of being fair or honorable, but it is extremely effective and would probably be the best martial art to know in any real-world violent encounter.

I also want to learn how to fight with a saber, and how to fight with a bullwhip (which is a surprisingly intricate and diverse martial art in itself).

TaiChi is something I would like to get into especially now that I am older. Tai Chi and yoga seem the perfect way to stay in shape and stay ready for anything. The moves are smoother and not as hard on the joints.

@poisonedantidote you are right of course. Although Isshin Ryu had fairly low stances and the punch with a twist it does more with close-in fighting.

for a forum discussing style differences, [Shotokan should look very familiar to a TKD player. Long and linear, powerful, relatively deep stances, striking-oriented.

Isshin is at the other end in some ways—close and compact, slightly more rounded, higher stances, a little more joint work.

Shorin tends to be more fluid and circular—more reminscent of its kung fu influences. A mix of stances and more open-hand (vice closed fist) techniques than the other two. Often it has a greater variety of weapons.] see

@phoebusg fortunately, I am one of those people who tend to have a pretty good sense of balance (wouldn’t go with amazing since standing on my hands is a pain in the ass for me, but other than being upside down, I can find a position that I’m fully or mostly balanced in). I’m just sick as hell right now and the nausea isn’t helping.

I have studied Kung-fu and what I have found is that it is more fluid that karate. The moves are alot but they are done in a more fluid motion and it incorporates all kind of animal fighting techniques. It is really cool. I think Tae-kwon-do has a little bit in it too.

@EGGIE I was aware that some forms of Kung Fu are based from how certain animals act or whichever…but I really don’t quite get it. Do they have certain animal names because by using them one may sort of like like a tiger/mantis/whatever, or are they really based from the animals themselves?

@Symbeline not that you would want to use them without being ready but how can you forget nunchakus?
You will find from study that most of the “weapons” evolved from simple farming tools available to every peasant. Nunchakus were simple threshing devices.

Ah, I know those, I wasn’t aware they were used with Karate though, I thought they were a Kung Fu thing, but neat though. (The name does seem Japanese, and not Chinese.) What do you call those that have two chains and three sticks? I know there’s a name for that.

@Symbeline sansetsukon

Thanks. But what the heel do all these words mean lol?

literal Japanese translation of sansetsukon is coiling dragon staff, i think, but it originates from China as the Sanjiegun or the Three section staff

@Winters Is it true that Karate is also originally Chinese?

Nunchucks (ヌンチャク, Nunchaku?) are a traditional Okinawan weapon consisting of two sticks connected at their ends with a short chain or rope.
The Japanese word nunchaku is generally believed to derive from the Japanese pronunciation of the Chinese term for two section staff.[1] but it may come from nun (ヌン), meaning “twin” and shaku (尺), the approximate length of each arm of the nunchucks.

see more history nunchucks here

@Symbeline eh, one could argue that it is originally Chinese but I am more of the belief that Karate was an incorporation of empty handed Kung Fu with already existing Okinawan martial arts which were technically of Chinese origin but had developed into distinctly different martial arts during Japan’s eras of isolation.

Cool, thanks for the info guys. I’m just parroting away shit shit I heard, I don’t know beyond that, so I appreciate the info.

Since you brought up kung-fu, it’s definitely a very fun art. And low on the predictability. My buddy cory taught kung fu for 10 years. We have a lot of fun sparring, usually in the racketball rooms at the gym. And it’s a more fun workout for sure :)

Actually, martial arts may come all the way from Greece. Given Alexander the great passed it on to india and the monks picked it up from there and spread it to China. Then the Japanese formed it into their own schools and distinct ways.

The Ancient Greek one is called pankration. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pankration
There are sculptures and lots of pottery with specific moves depicted. It stands for “ruling by all means” – in the sense of taking control.

Well yeah man, the Greeks invented everything lol. I’m pretty sure you’re the one who taught me that before, oh so many months ago. Thanks again for the insight though. :)

Haha, not really, but they were instrumental in communicating a lot of inventions. Those that weren’t simultaneous. They just obsessed on perfection a bit.

@phoebusg the Greek origin doesn’t work all that well as pankration originates from what, 700 BC whereas martial arts such as Kung Fu have indications of it having originated from around 1500–2000 BC.

Origin of martial art is probably Sebekkha which came from Egypt (along the Nile to be more specific), records of which show it coming into existence at roughly 3,000 B.C and is what pankration was probably based on. However there are several other martial arts which are from Africa that no one has a clue as to how old they may be but have similarities to martial arts such as karate, judo, aikido, and others.

@Winters What about Kapowena? (Sp?) That’s African, right?

Kapowena isn’t ringing any bells for me, sorry. (I tried googling it but to no avail).

@Symbeline The animal forms has animal names because the practioners used the animal patters in their form of fighting. The names come about from the style that the practioner mimicks. The snake for example—which is my favorite—consists of quick strikes at vital points on the opponents body to disable and paralyse like the eye. If you would look at the practioners performing that style, you would see that their hands are moving in the same way that a snake would attack prey or defend themselves.

@Winters actually remains of organized towns have been found as old as 7K or more—history is constantly updated by findings. But it could be that influenced still changed the local martial arts.

@Symbeline you mean Capoeira—that’s brazillian. Slaves invented it and made it into a dance. Because they were not allowed to train in such arts, they got away with it appearing like a game/dance.

Capoeira is African.

I wonder where the hell I got Kapowena from lol.