Watching the news...do you get the feeling that "poor" people have a lot more stuff under their tree than you do every year?

No.

Poor is poor. Who are we to spite them because others are generous for a day? The next day they return to a financial struggle to survive.

Yeah some generous donations might be more than I get this year but I am still very grateful to NOT be in their shoes yet.
“There but for the grace of God go I..”

Huh?

Oh, it’s about donations? WTF is the problem? Are you bitter that people want to help others?

Donations in our area a way down, and the need is high. I was happy to see our community center was filled with donations when I took my donations over.

Well since you’re using quotations marks, then you must not think they’re really poor. Because people who are actually poor don’t have a tree or anything under it. At least, I don’t think so – we don’t have much but we have more than the homeless in NYC.

I do not get that feeling at all.

Maybe you could volunteer at a distribution site and see for yourself how much poor people get.

Generally speaking no. But, this nurse, who seemed to be kind of a racist, once said to me that people purposely brought their kids to the hospital near Christmas to get free toys.

I can tell you here in Memphis there is a huge push to make sure all children have gifts on Christmas. Now, I don’t mean to be a scrooge, but if someone is really very poor, it seems one toy is enough, and the money would be more useful. Practicality always wins out with me.

No. What I have seen a lot is people who feel they have less than middle incomes buy as much stuff as they can because somehow it makes them feel farther away from being/looking “poor”.

@JLeslie The christian group with whom I am loosely associated feeds kids in the community every day includng weekends. They take them to doctor apointmens and church, and buy them clothes and necessary articles as they can. They also try to get something for each child for birthdays and christmas. Some of these kids don’t have shoes The biggest proble with buying stuff for the kids is that the parents take the stuff back to the store for the cash and buy drugs.

No… And since when is any gift, regardless of tax bracket or class, considered “paying your own way”?
I’m pretty blessed all year round – I have tons of things that are never wrapped. All many of them have is wrapped. That’s like saying that because they have more Snickers that I do, they have more chocolate than I do (despite the entire pantry I have dedicated to gourmet chocolate).

@papayalily Very cute typo in your last sentence. Freudian – err, slip?

@psychocandy Looks like I need to give back those presents you sent Jon and I last year cuz us poor folk are living the high life.~

@janbb Yeah, let’s call it that…

Yes, they generally have more under the tree than my family, but I am happy for them. In my family, if we want something we save up and buy it – that way there is very little of value that people need/want for Christmas. We make the holiday season about family, and generally forget presents, roasts, lights etc. We don’t decorate our houses, we give minimal presents, we have simple meals, and we have a great time just hanging out with each other.

If poor people can’t buy what they want, but strangers are willing to give it to them at Christmas time, then good on them. The strangers deserve some level of recognition too, for doing a noble thing.

YEAH! Fuckin’ poor people, LET’S GET ‘EM!!!

oh. wait a minute. there’s nothing to get . . .

@Dutchess_III – Based on your comments on another question – oh yes, the hunting question – I really do mean this in a non-snarky way, but I get the feeling that you are very out-of-touch with poverty. Like, in that other thread, you seemed to have this idea in your head that people are generally pretty well set all over America.

This is not the case at all.

When I was growing up, my parents participated in the Santa letter program in our area. You know what’s heartbreaking? When a little kid, instead of asking for toys, says in his Santa letter that all he wants is a new pair of shoes.

Yes, there are people with “too much”. I’ve lived really poor, like free lunch and food stamp poor, so trust me when I say no way in hell would I ever say “poor people have too many presents under the tree.” Whatever was put there, they worked hard as hell to save up and buy.

I really hope I’m misunderstanding this question. Is it really terrible that on one day of the year, the poor get to feel like they’re not poor thanks to others’ generosity?

To think that the truly needy are being gluttonous for taking other people’s charity is just wrong. To be frank, it really sickens me that anyone feels this way. I haven’t gotten angry on Fluther since I’ve been here, but yeah. This angers me.

If I could afford to, I’d buy toys and food for all kinds of poor people. Maybe even for the homeless people I see on the street in Toronto every single day. But I can’t. Because, while I’m not as badly off as they are, I’m poor. Call me a glutton.

You often say, “I would give, but only to the deserving.”
The trees in your orchard say not so, nor the flocks in your pasture.
They give that they may live, for to withhold is to perish.
Surely he who is worthy to receive his days and his nights, is worthy of all else from you.
And he who has deserved to drink from the ocean of life deserves to fill his cup from your little stream.
And what desert greater shall there be, than that which lies in the courage and the confidence, nay the charity, of receiving?
And who are you that men should rend their bosom and unveil their pride, that you may see their worth naked and their pride unabashed?
See first that you yourself deserve to be a giver, and an instrument of giving.
For in truth it is life that gives unto life while you, who deem yourself a giver, are but a witness.

K Gibran

No. Just the opposite. Last night’s news featured the letters to santa that the post office receives each year and actually reads to see if they can find a charity to help those who have nothing. Many this year were from kids asking to help Daddy find a job, or asking Santa to not give them toys, just some warm clothes and food for their family.

USC reports the following: “In the United States, wealth is highly concentrated in a relatively few hands. As of 2007, the top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 34.6% of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 50.5%, which means that just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 85%, leaving only 15% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers)” Further, the bottom 40% own only 1% of the nation;s wealth.

So if you are feeling squeezed and are afraid there won’t be much under your tree this Christmas, it actually isn’t because the poor are secretly rich and took all your money. That is just the story the right wants to sell you so they can carry on with their tax cuts, estate tax elimination and other Federal programs to benefit the rich. After all, who gives money to get them elected?

Certainly not. The average parent spends over $100, probably a couple of hundred, per child (in Australia, source). You can bet donated presents will be worth nowhere near that much, plus charities struggle to get even one present to each child in need.

@Trillian I’m glad to know that. My husband has asked me in the past if poor people are fed on other days besides Thanksgiving. There is just such an obvious push during the holidays, and I hate to think little is being done for daily needs. Of course I know there are people out there doing charitable things all year, but again, I just hope it is done in a practicle way, that benefits people the best way possible.

This year the club I belong to was discussing which charity to give our donation to. At our Christmas party we ask everyone to put money in a bucket. Winds up being around $750 more or less. Anyway, the powers at be decided to give to gift giving at St. Jude’s for xmas. Don’t get me wrong, I think St. jude’s hospital is fantastic. But the other suggestion was giving to this guy who picks up a bunch of kids all ages every weekend, and they mow lawns, or pick up leaves, and get paid. All the money they are paid is donations. All the people who transport these kids to the locations volunteer their time. These kids live in really sucky conditions, and their parents are not so hot either. These children learn how to follow direction, are occupied on the weekend, get too see something outside of their neighborhood, learn about work ethic, working with others, and a skill, and get money in their pockets. I wanted to give to that, because I think it really makes a difference. The children at St. Jude’s are not necessarily poor, even though it is of course extremely sad they are so ill, and difficult on the parents.

Jomp back! OK. Let’s define poor. Would you define someone who grossed $10,000 a year with 4 kids to support as “poor?” What is your definition of “poor?” I’ve been technically “poor”...but I never stood in line for presents for my kids. There was always something I could do for them, and something they could do for me. To this day I have, hanging on my wall, a message my son wrote me one Christmas. He was 16 ( 22 now) and had nothing more to give me than a letter of respect, love, and thoughts for the future. Pretty awesome for 16. I will treasure it forever. The year we didn’t have $20 for a Christmas tree, and I strung lights on my (big) plants…to this day (15 years later) they clamor for lights on the (same) plants (but it damn near killed my plants so…I’ve only done it every few years since then). There is always something and that something is more important than what any stranger buying something from Walmart can ‘donate’ to you. It’s what you can do for each other, not what others can do for you.

Good for you. Let others enjoy the goodwill of others even if you choose not to.

@Dutchess_III Many of these people that receive presents don’t stand in line. Someone puts their name on a list. You really need to stop believing everything you see on the news.

Well, here in the United States, poor is defined as a family of four making less than $22,050 per year. Hey whataya know I’m poor!

I admit it, if my family was celebrating Christmas in a more traditional way, I would happily stand in line to accept gifts donated to help my kids enjoy the celebration. Doesn’t what we can do for each other actually fall into the category of what others can do for you? When I had the resources I gave – happily. Now that I don’t, I would accept – gratefully.

@Dutchess_III – I’d like to know what your definition of poor is.

Really, who cares whether they stand in line or if someone puts their name on a list? They can’t afford to give their kid a toy. Every kid should have a toy at Christmas. If charity is the only way it can be done, no one should shit on them for that.

@Dutchess_III But, if everyone gives a gift to a charity, but no one takes even one of those gifts from the charity, then no one has actually helped anyone else – they’ve just pointlessly boosted their ego. How is that helpful?

@Dutchess_III Please help me to understand why you feel so negatively about this. Have we not been able to establish, as a collective, that we all have diferent desires, experiences, expecations, and wants? Why do you feel that others should emulate you and not seek life in their own way? Why can you not accept that there are families in need? Why do you feel so compelled tochold others to your standard and why do you not want others to benefit from the gfts that are given in the best of sprits?
I turn again to Kahlil;
“And you receivers… and you are all receivers… assume no weight of gratitude, lest you lay a yoke upon yourself and upon him who gives.
Rather rise together with the giver on his gifts as on wings;
For to be overmindful of your debt, is to doubt his generosity who has the freehearted earth for mother, and God for father.”(Emphasis mine)

@papayalily You know, I once had a friend I tried to do a favor for. She refused it saying ” ‘It is better to receive than to give’ ” quoting the Bible.
I said, “So…where does that leave me, who is trying to give?” She thought for a moment then accepted my gift.

@Seelix My definition of poor In America is someone who makes between $8000 and $15,000 over a 4 year period, with four kids to support, with no help. No help from family, no child support. (And before you jump to conclusions, all of my kids have the same dad, who I was married to for 10 years.) I did not stand in line for free crap from Walmart for my kids. Ever.

@Trillian OK. Families in need. What happens to them the rest of the year? Why is it that people only “come together” two months out of twelve for those families in “need?” If a family is that needy, it certainly isn’t only for those two months out of the year. If one really wants to help, track a family through the year…through birthdays, through getting new school clothes for the kids, through the YEARS. Why don’t they have an annual “Help the poor kids get new clothes for schools” Event? Why is it only at Christmas, when you can buy a $10 last-for-a-month throw away toy? It’s commercialism at its worst. Don’t buy the family a pumpkin pie, when what they really need is a dinner. Every day.

@Dutchess_III – I wasn’t planning on jumping to conclusions. You said “Let’s define poor”, then didn’t define it. I don’t think I’ve presented myself as judgmental.

Edit: What did you mean by “poor In America”?

Ok, I’m seriously getting the feeling that what’s really going on here is you feel like you “did” poverty better than everyone else, and you want a freaking medal for it.

Sometimes, all a family needs is the “extras” Maybe they can pay all their bills, and put food on the table, but there just isn’t room for extras. That to me is what charity is for. Those who help themselves, but just can’t afford a bunch of stuff at Christmas. Seems this question took a wrong turn somewhere. shrug

Here’s the thing. I’m Jewish. Gifts were not a big part of the holidays for me. I did get some gifts when I was very little, but I cannot tell you one gift I did get for Chanukah. I don’t remember one of them. I did get money for chanukah, I remember that every year. That money went straight to my bank account. We were not poor, but we were barely in the middle class when I was little. I am not trying to compare situations. But, the reason kids might feel badly at Christmas if they don’t get anything, is because it is so flipping commercialized.

Now, in the back of my head, if this is a time of year where people can be more easily swayed to give, then I guess go ahead and use the holiday to increase donations, but I am still back to making sure poor children have the necessities more than one day a year having santa claus. CHRISTmas. Not SANTAmas.

I think perhaps your point is that a gift selected by strangers, though it may be worth more money, is not as valuable as a token from the heart?

In that case, though taking pleasure in one’s family and being happy with just being able to get by on Christmas is admirable, when you are surrounded by Christmas everywhere, gifts everywhere, consumerism everywhere, it can make the struggle to afford to do basic things even more painful.

If a society is going to allow a materialistic Christmas spirit to be forced down the throats of people who can’t afford it, then we should be helping them to achieve the Christmas experience that we teach them to desire. Even if it is a cheap present that won’t last a month, for a child who won’t get anything else for the rest of the year, it will hopefully provide an amount of happiness, and make them feel included (if only a little bit) when they return to school and all the other children are talking about how they stuffed themselves full with Christmas pudding and ice cream while testing out their iPads.

@Dutchess_III Why is it only at Christmas, when you can buy a $10 last-for-a-month throw away toy?

If you were poor, or truly paid attention to the poor, you would know that they receive help throughout the year. The media pays attention to the holidays because it’s a feel good story. Police shop with poor children for school supplies at the beginning of the school year, food pantries are available to the poor at least once a month, children receive reduced or free lunches at school during the school year, our local high school gathers clothes and house hold items once a year to help the needy.

And your definition of poor is yours. It does not make a family of 5 making $20,000 a year wealthy.

@Dutchess_III just because it doesn’t happen as often as many folks would like, there is no reason to discount what people are giving. Sure it would be great if everyone who had the means were to regularly help out someone less fortunate but that isn’t reality. What is reality is that people do think of those less fortunate at this time of the year. Good for them; and good for the recipients of their good will.

I think @papayalily makes an excellent point, you seem to think you did poor the right way and anyone who doesn’t do it that same way must have a serious issue. I disagree with that premise and I will say it again – darn right I would stand in line at WalMart if it meant the difference between my kids having something to unwrap on Christmas morning and not having something.

I do not understand the attitude that those who accept a gift should feel shame for taking it.

Don’t people realize how totally shitty it feels to not be able to provide for your own? So we should add to this shitty feeling by judging them for accepting gifts once a year?

I don’t get it. It just makes me feel sad.

@Claire_Fraser I can see your logic. Families that do their best all year long, but a helping hand during the holidays is a nice perk.

Three Toblerone bars compared to one new car does not more presents make… or does it?

@Dutchess_III Did you even read my post to @JLeslie? I just got done telling you that this group takes care of these kids all year ‘round. Why do you assume that charites only operate at Christmas? You are in error. It is only that you hear more about it because it is the seaon for giving. That is a basic tenet of the Christian faith. The charities ask for more or are more vocal about it because they’re doing above and beyond what they do the rest of the year. I say again that you are in error. I volunteer all the time and so does my oldest daughter. We go to the kitchens and put bags and bundles together for families. Dinners with sides and dessert as well as toiletries, soaps,all kinds of stuff.
Go ahead on and revel in your success, but you cannot hide your bitterness. It will eat you like cancer and it’s a heavy load that you choose to carry. Are you sure you don’t want to lay it down?

@talljasperman I love Toblerone. Just sayin’.

@Claire_Fraser You just described my family. We barely get by. A flat tire, birthday presents, a new pair of shoes…. ugh. It’s hard!

@JLeslie I am Tobleroned out… I’ve eaten to many of them… I like chocolate covered coconut ruffles now… but since I can’t find any I eat chocolate chip cookies… when I can get them

@Trillian I did, and I acknowledged it. I said I was glad to hear it. My point about the commercialization of Christmas is not a criticism of the charities, but of the expectation people have on Christmas.

That people feel like shit if there are no gifts under the tree.

@JLeslie I know you did sugar, I was making a point to @Dutchess_III. I referenced you becuse you were who I addressed that particular post to.

@talljasperman Never heard of them?! But, I made coconut macaroons for Chanukah and stuffed a chocolate money in my mouth at the same time.

@Trillian That was my mistake, I read it too quickly. Your answer was clear.

@JLeslie I searched but I can’t find chocolate covered coconut Ruffles not even a picture on Google… you get them two layers of 14 fingers…maybe they don’t make them anymore…

@talljasperman Ruffles or truffles?

Sometimes, people need a little more comfort around the holidays. I am blessed not only with a wonderful mother but also with enough money to live well. Still, every year, my mother buys new toys for Toys for Tots. She always buys stuffed animals because kids need something to hug, less fortunate kids even more so. However, mostly what we donate is warm clothing. I have a couple winter coats, many of these poor families don’t have enough for their family members. I am not one to deny a child a warm jacket and new shoes just because I can afford them.

@papayalily they are called Ruffles and they come 28 fingers in a pack all lined up

@talljasperman Are you in the UK? When I google it comes up with UK websites for coconut and rasberry ruffles. But they are individually wrapped, like a Lindt chocolate. OMG, Lindt milk chocolate in the red wrapper.

@JLeslie no I’m in Canada… I haven’t seen the ruffles in 15 years

I recently watched a woman tell somebody how she didn’t have auto insurance because she couldn’t afford it… while she was talking on her iPhone and holding her new Coach purse.

@rts486: So, because of that, kids shouldn’t get presents at Christmas?

@talljasperman Oh, Canada. :). All I have to say to that is Coffee Crisp.

Just saw a news report that donations to the L.A. Children’s Hospital are down 70%. They are pretty much begging for donations. How rude.~

@psychocandy 70%. Wow, the number is so high. Was that regarding donations surrounding the xmas season? Or, 70% for the year?

X-Mas.

@rts486

The Coach bag was new? Was it the latest style? Did it have it’s tags on it? Your sure it was a legit coach and not a Chinese knockoff?

Oh a smartphone? Some use it instead of buying a computer and paying for cable Internet as well as a land line telephone. If you take all those costs into play the smart phone can be cheaper.

Yeah I guess she could just be a slacker but What if she is one of the hundreds of thousands of people who have lost their job in recent months? She is lamenting on the phone about not being able to pay for insurance so this is obviously new to her.

For all you know this woman who you immediately judged is on the verge of, or is losing or has lost her home.

We live in really horrible times. For so many who had worked their way to security everything is being taken away and people continue to try but still cannot recover.

So why can’t we just stop judging others. Let’s stop taking it out on the kids.

Now is the time world-wide where we should all be working together to get through this. Give your excess, accept help when offered, know that security is an illusion and any of us could be in that position so easily judged.

@rts486 now that you mention it, I own a Coach bag. I bought it about ten years ago. I am really glad I did because it is decent purse that has held up well. Now that I am a starving student and single mom maybe I should stop carrying it. Perhaps a brown paper bag would be more apropos.

@Dog @KatawaGrey Nobody said anything about not having Christmas presents, and anybody who has spent time in Asia can pick out the fake Coach purses. Maybe she should have thought about presents for her kids before buying a Coach purse. My wife doesn’t have a Coach purse, but our kids will have presents.

The point is there are too many people spend their money on non-essentials while ignoring the essentials. I’ve talked to many people saying the same thing as this women. A great example is one of my neighbors who can afford to go to Europe every year and drives a BMW, but complains he can’t pay his utility bill.

I’ve spent numerous years in third world countries to see what is truly essential and not essential. People in the US calling themselves poor have no clue what poor is. I have helped people on many occasions who needed help, and will continue to do so. But I’m tired of people asking me to sacrific so they can have their Coach purse and iPhone.

@SuperMouse Use the paper bag if it works,

The point here, to me, is that you really should try not to judge people because there’s always a story there that you don’t know. The story, if you heard it, would probably clarify things and make a person’s actions understandable. Since you don’t know the person, you don’t know what the story is, and you are in their life for a matter of seconds or minutes, I simply don’t understand why we are so damned judgey with each other!

@rts486 You are missing my point. You held this person who you know nothing of aside of appearance as an example in this question. I merely pointed out that she could be a slacker but she also could have, like thousands of Americans, been well off a year ago and now are unemployed and losing all they built.

@rts486: Excellent point, Now why don’t you sell your computer and stop paying for internet access? Those aren’t exactly essential yet, here you are. maybe you should sacrifice so someone can have a home or a hot meal or a winter coat.

They do, I don’t even have a tree, and if I did there would be nothing under it and nothing decorating it. Har har.

@Hypocrisy_Central Did you want one? I have no tree either.

I didn’t put up my tree this year, either. I don’t have room for it. I strung the lights around the top of my family room and the shelves that hold the Christmas village I made.

I want to invent a wall hugging tree for people who don’t have room to put up a three dimensional tree.

Where did the idea come from that everyone must have a bad Christmas just because a few people do? I would think that this part of the year would encourage others to help out rather than complain that someone else has something they don’t.