Serious question: Is there that much difference in difficulty in being a man or being a woman today?

Each has their own difficulties. Neither one os more difficult than the other.

I agree with you that we are better off focusing on what we have in common than our differences.

I dont know if I want to touch this one. I don’t know if there is a difference, I only experience one side of that question. We are different and I suppose our struggles are different.

I don’t think we’re all that different, but society treats us differently and that makes the difficulties different. I’ll have to go back and look, but I don’t think there were any responses about pressure on how men looked in that thread.

It’s a very different set of issues for both sexes, but I imagine that the perception of the levels of difficulty are about the same for both. I know that some of things my male friends have to deal with are as daunting as what we women go through. I wouldn’t want my ability to have children be completely dependant on another person. Just one example…

I think, and this is only my opinion, that it is easier to be a tall strong man, as many women want him and the men want to be like him, while it’s harder for a small weaker man. On the other hand, I think it is easier to be a smaller woman, because more of the men find her attractive, and people generally feel at ease around her, while it is harder to be a tall stronger woman, because the men may resent her for her strength and the women may find her threatening.

Yes.

If you put a woman on a pedestal and try to protect her from the rat race, you are a male chauvinist.
If you stay home and do the housework, you are a pansy.

If you work too hard, there is never any time for her.
If you don’t work enough, you are a good for nothing bum.

If she has a boring repetitive job with low pay, this is exploitation.
If you have a boring repetitive job with low pay, you should get off your rear and find something better.

If you get a promotion ahead of her, that is favoritism.
If she gets a job ahead of you, it’s equal opportunity.

If you mention how nice she looks, it’s sexual harassment.
If you keep quiet, it’s male indifference.

If you cry, you are a wimp.
If you don’t, you are an insensitive bastard.

If you make a decision without consulting her, you are a chauvinist.
If she makes a decision without consulting you, she’s a liberated woman.

If you ask her to do something she doesn’t enjoy, that’s domination.
If she asks you, it’s a favor.

If you appreciate the female form and frilly underwear, you are a pervert.
If you don’t, you are a fag.

If you like a woman to shave her legs and keep in shape, you are a sexist.
If you don’t, you are unromantic.

If you try to keep yourself in shape, you are vain.
If you don’t, you are a slob.

If you are proud of your achievements, you are up yourself.
If you don’t, you are not ambitious.

If she has a headache, she is tired.
If you have a headache, you don’t love her anymore.

If you want it too often, you are oversexed.
If you don’t, there must be someone else.

@BoBo1946 And what does this copy and paste post of yours accomplish? That some people can read any situation in their favor but you’re wrong in thinking that this is what the feminist movement has been about and it makes you sound embittered.

Well, even if all else were equal, we men don’t have to pop an oversized baby out of an undersized orifice. Respect. Seriously.

uh…. good grief… @Simone_De_Beauvoir you don’t recognize a “tongue in cheek” post. It was for laughter, to make you happy. Give me break girl. Are you having a bad day and going to take it out on me. Well don’t.

@janbb We’re all trapped in a binary gender system regardless of gender but there are systemic concerns which make life harder for women and transgender people.
@BoBo1946 I suppose I didn’t find it funny, why would I? Oh, don’t tell me, is it because I’m one of those queer feminists who have no humor? Please.

@BoBo1946 : Mildly amusing on the “tongue in cheek” thread, not so much here. @Simone_De_Beauvoir has a point. Doing it twice is just overkill. No, I’m not having a bad day, it just wasn’t funny the second time.

Not because the things we face are so different, but that society makes facing those things much more difficult for a woman.

You people are taking life way too serious. I apologize for my poor behavior. Geezzzzz

“Serious Question”

@BoBo1946 I thought it was funny! I shall now lurve you to death!

Thank you @WillWorkForChocolate ! A sense of humor goes a long ways in this life.

@BoBo1946 True! And @janbb and I have plenty of it.

I did say that humor was welcome here too, @BoBo1946.

Thank you @janbb ! Somehow mine was missed. But, that is the life we love. Cheers my friend.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir oh, you are speaking for @janbb ! Interesting.

As a feminist and former Women’s Studies student I have always thought that when it comes to playing the who has it better/worse game, no one wins. The issues are different and cannot be compared. But I have always said, and I have often gotten shit for this, that women have always had a one-up on men in that it is much more accepted for women to break gender norms than it is for men. Women are allowed and even encouraged to step outside of gender norms (not that it’s easy or that there are not consequences), but men are rarely encouraged to even question gender norms, let alone break them. A lot is expected of men in our society, and they have less outlets and less support when they try to be who they are instead of what people expect them to be.

If this had been a general question, would have never posted that… and humor was welcomed. Thought is was funny when I read it. The copy and paste answer was just for humor. Nothing else.

@psychocandy Very good points. I agree with you.

I think that almost every single issue we have as a gendered society has two sides, one for males, one for females. For example, a female is expected to show a lot of emotion, but is condemned for doing so. Similarly, a male is expected to show very little emotion but is considered insensitive for doing so. If you flip things, as in a female who shows little emotion and a male who shows a lot of emotion, then she’s a frigid bitch and he’s a sissy.

@psychocandy: Interestingly enough, I have noticed this as well. I think part of it is because little boys are slapped into gender roles from birth whereas little girls are given much more freedom until puberty hits. Men are not taught to question their roles because they never knew anything different.

@BoBo1946: perhaps instead of just posting it as is, you should have posted a disclaimer. Besides, it’s not exactly hard to believe that you actually feel that a lot of that is true. :) Also, hey why don’t you add something relevant instead of acting like we knocked your ice cream cone out of your hand.

I think @psychocandy is right about breaking gender norms as long as we’re talking about modern, Western culture. I don’t think “always” is completely accurate, or if accurate has only been functionally true when we discuss “advantage” more recently.

For women, I think the issue is not being, but rather achieving equality and respect when interacting in today’s society. But how significant this issue is depends on (1) geography, (2) education, (3) economic status, and (4) age.

For men, I think the issue is being. It gets more and more difficult to define oneself as a man, and to have that pride or determination to outline it and have that generally supported.

I am only speaking of modern, Western culture—America, specifically.

That’s what the question is about (modern American society) – hard enough as it.

@KatawaGrey well, loll.. thank you for tuning me up. I needed that. You have a wonderful day.

deleted… not a proper thing to say!

Great answer @BoBo1946 I gave you lurve for it. LOL

@JilltheTooth well… it applied to both questions. I was just trying to put a “light touch” on the question. I’m going to leave now and buy some ice cream!” Never intented to step on anyone’s toes.

Truly, from the perspective of being a human being in general? No, there are no inherent differences. The problem is, those who hold the most power view things a little differently, and this is where the struggles arise – for both sexes, yes. But, all in all, women still don’t have the same amount of respect or rights as men – because men still, on average, have the power. This is not to say that all men in power want to oppress women, because that’s not the case. However, a lot of them are okay with the imbalance of power, because those in power directly benefit from the imbalance. They don’t want to share, because it means less for them. I have many extremely interesting anthropological essays on this subject, if anyone is interested.

I HATE SOCIAL!!! Worst fluther change, EVER!

I love social… best change Fluther ever made!

You haven’t been here long enough to say. FUUUUCKKKK! I’m outta here.

Men and women are different and they serve different roles in life though both have their challenges.

loll.. oh, a certain length of time to give your opinion. Okay…. interesting.

@BoBo1946: Please answer the question. You have continued to derail this thread and many of us don’t appreciate it. I know you don’t care if the rest of us are unhappy as long as you get to do what you want, but please, just this once, let it go.

oh, and you didn’t… and , now you are a mod (not one now obviously). I was just defending myself from the attacks of my love ones.

Wow why so negative with BoBo he didn’t do anything deserving of this.

@BoBo1946: perhaps instead of just posting it as is, you should have posted a disclaimer. Besides, it’s not exactly hard to believe that you actually feel that a lot of that is true. :) Also, hey why don’t you add something relevant instead of acting like we knocked your ice cream cone out of your hand.

This is what started it.

So @BoBo1946 posted a comment that some people didn’t find funny. Some of us found it funny as hell. And for the record, @psychocandy‘s inflammatory comments have been just as derailing, yet I don’t see anyone asking her to stop. Let’s ALL just let it go, mmkay?

Good idea @WillWorkForChocolate ! Seems like this got away and became a real issue over a fun intended comment. Seems like some people on Fluther think they are entitled. We all have a place here. It’s a great site and a fun site, most of the time.

@BoBo1946: I was not speaking as a mod, I was speaking as a regular user. It was your “funny” comment that prompted everything else and I see that you have still not answered the question. Just saying.

Well, is it not a social question. It’s related. just saying!

@BoBo1946 Let it go and move on, please.

@BoBo1946 After the response to your very funny post on this thread, you might be able to amend the list and add another damned if you do-danmed if you don’t anecdote. Just saying.

You are right Jude… thank you. It’s always best to take the high road… and sometimes, it’s SO hard.

@bkcunningham touche my friend.

I honestly do not believe there is that much difference between the issues that men and women face today. They are very different issues, and as many above have said, they are not easily compared in many cases, simply cannot be compared. And since each of us has only been one (most likely), we haven’t experienced what both men and women have experienced and we cannot really say for sure “who has it worse” without having been both and weighed the pros and cons of being both.

As a man/boy, I’ve experienced pressure to be manly, I’ve had people tell me I’m not a “real man” because I’m homosexual or I otherwise defy traditional expectations and norms. But both genders have issues with being non-traditional, men being something other than the strong breadwinner and women being something other than the submissive housewife.

Today, in American society, disregarding the fact that women are still largely underprivileged worldwide in comparison to men and had to fight for their rights in American society, I believe the issues they both face now are about the same. I am not talking about generic human desire to find “purpose” or anything like that. Men still have the pressure to be manly, women still have the pressure to be pretty and proper. Women are often favored in custody cases, but men still get paid more on average. Women have to worry about being raped, but men have to worry about being accused of sexual harassment or ignored in cases of harrassment, etc. They really seem to balance each other out in many respects.

And yes, I understand I generalized and simplified many points.

But honestly, sometimes I do believe men still have it better, regardless. I live in a house with a bunch of straight guys, and the haste to which they will label a girl a “slut” is astounding. Sometimes I get the impression that girls are not supposed to desire sex in any way, otherwise they’re a “slut”. Men don’t have to deal with that at all, really, in my experiences. Maybe that tilts the scales just enough. I don’t know, I’m just thinking as I type…

Look you guys… @BoBo1946 just made a confession, whether he realizes it or not and that is; Men…can’t…ever…get…it…right. He understands that, whether he realizes it or not! (Probably doesn’t understand, or realize, because he’s a guy but…you know how They Are!)

So, back to the question… @janbb Um, what is the pyramid of importance for a society….if I remember right it’s
1. Food
2. Shelter
Anything beyond that is a little extra gravy….
3. Protection.
4. Protection in numbers
5. Protected well enough to establish a society.
6. Established society that allows different members to contribute in different ways.
6. After everyone is well fed, safe, protected and contributing in a way that is self satisfying, and everyone isn’t constantly searching for food, shelter and protection…then you have time to philosophize. Which is where American society is now. We have the leisure time to think about things that our predecessors didn’t have time to think about and had no inclination to think about. They were too busy sleeping in total exhaustion at the end of the day.

So…in some ways I think it’s harder today because of all of the questions we’ve had time to fuss over and fret about, and in some ways I think it’s easier because….we have the leisure and comfort to to think up all of these new questions.

I made inflammatory statements? Where? I did no such thing. My response (you know, the non-side comments, where I didn’t whisper) has the most lurve in the thread. Get over yourself. Don’t bring your baggage from one question to another.

As I was saying, I think that the only difference in difficulty in being a man or being a woman today is because of the time we have to devote to thinking about it because of the time off when we have nothing else to do. We’re not scrapping for survival.

ew..talk about a chip on one’s shoulder.

@janbb This was a good question.

@DominicX…. I’m thinking about your comment, that you “live in a house with a bunch of straight guys, and the haste to which they will label a girl a “slut” is astounding.” Under what circumstances do they do that? When they’re rejected, when their overture are accepted or…what? Do you get the sense it’s defensive mechanisim? You have an interesting perspective here….

Thank you Simone! You knocked it off… thank you again.

Oh, my good friend @Dutchess_III ! A real lady.

about 27 responses ago @BoBo1946 (the nice guy according to his profile) said he was leaving to buy ice cream, guess that was a joke too???

I agree both have their difficulties, but I do think women have to fight a lot more for everything. When Hillary was running for president, some in the audience actually yelled for her to go home and iron Bill’s shirts. Has that ever happened to a man???

But as was said above, males have a more rigid role to play. But really a woman who strays too far from the accepted venture into male domain is open to much criticism and stares down the nose as well.

I have always felt, most females and most males are very similar in just about every way. There are those at both end of the spectrum who fulfill the typical female and male stereotype, but the majority are in the middle. Now if only society, culture, whatever would stop trying to squeeze us all into the one size fits all catagory, we could all be so much more free and happy.

No. @BoBo1946 actually left Fluther.

I’m a little disappointed in you guys. This got way more personal and nasty than it needed to. This was a good question, we can differ on opinions, but please don’t go after each other. I respect most of the jellys most of the time, but this one’s got me wondering. This was not our highest achievement. :(

@Adirondackwannabe I totally agree.

Guys, there was a lot that went on behind the scenes that you didn’t see.

You cannot blame others, or this thread, for someone leaving. No one was mean or made personal attacks aimed at him.

Most of us are adults and should be able to be responsible for our own actions. We don’t need to be chastised.

I didn’t try to say any one party was to blame or any one party was an innocent victim. That blame shit sucks. I’m disappointed in the group as a whole.

“This got way more personal and nasty than it needed to.” Sounds like an accusation to me. No one was nasty to him. He was the one that made it personal. Again, you don’t need to chastise anyone. You are disappointed? Too bad for you. Jellies are not to blame for this.

Fuck it. I’m not wasting my time.

Too bad I cannot defend myself…. here is @psychocandy comment. You haven’t been here long enough to say. FUUUUCKKKK! I’m outta here. That was direct at me. And, nothing was said toward me. Anyway, no one can read this..I’m gone. loll Just interesting comments made this morning. Some of the comments about behind the scenes stuff is not true. A mod here came into my PM and attack me. Told me not to contact her again. I told her the same thing.

He reactivated his account for a few minutes to get another shot in… oh, dear.

I guess he needs some attention.

I’m outta this thread for good. If anyone needs me I’ll be driving jellies away elsewhere.

This did indeed get way too personal, and all because a few people had a problem with a comment @BoBo1946 posted in fun. This is the main thing that I actually dislike about some of you guys. He left because you simply couldn’t keep your “I’m a know it all, I’m better than you and find your comment to be unfunny” mouths shut. And @BoBo1946 is a great guy.

I’m sad to see him go and I really think we ought to applaud those of you who were cruel enough to make him want to leave. Give yourselves a nice pat on the back, why don’t you.

@WillWorkForChocolate : You were not privy to the PMs he sent a bunch of us.

Amazing how the people that started this fight, now says it’s my fault. Read the threads!

(how can someone delete their account and reactivate so many times/and so easily? You to go through the Big Mamas and Papas for that.)

I’m wondering that too Jude. Just cameback to check out the comments… and was able to post. Wish i had not even open it up after reading this stuff.

And to send unsolicited rude pm’s saying I am a worthless excuse for a human being. Such a nice guy.

Leave already, and take your marbles with you.

@BoBo1946 There is that stubborn Irish nature kicking in. Let it go and move on. You’re a grown man and sorry to say, right now, you’re acting like a child trying to get the last word. Let it go!!

@Jude I know Jude… i’m trying so hard to do that.. but, after these people attacked me yesterday, they come in here today and do the same thing. Hard to do.

Personal attack. Flag. Nice guy.

@psychocandy already flagged you… you started it.. not me.

I know you are but what am I? :/

can we do this in PM? or chat? psychocandy, the offer stands, if you change your mind.

I am going to have to get out my teacher meter stick! Hands down on desks!

I really don’t do that. :)

@WillWorkForChocolate : You were not privy to the PMs he sent a bunch of us.

@JilltheTooth if you want to post all my comments on this question in the PM, you have my permission. I said nothing wrong. All my comments said in other’s PM are welcomed to be posted. I said nothing wrong.

The people that started this yesterday are “beating the dead horse to death!” Amazing..

You know when you’re a kid, and you stretch out your arm and place your palm flat on your friend’s foreheard. Then, your friend starts swinging, trying to hit you, even though there is no way that they can hit you, but, they refuse to stop. That’s you, Bobo. People aren’t going to care anymore about all of this.

Let it go.

@Jude well, put your feet into my shoes after you read the comments. Also, some of these same ones have taken shots in the past. Yesterday, took my stand. Anyway, it so shall pass. Nothing had been said here that is deeply hurtful. I never run from a fight when I know I’m right. But, I will be a gentleman about it. If you read the threads, I’ve never been ugly to anyone. Not once.

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[Mod Says] Flame off folks.
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Please get back on topic or resist the temptation to post.

Disagree WITHOUT being disagreeable.

If you cannot contribute something helpful please move
on to another question.

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No I don’t think there is that much difference between being a man or a woman. We each have our difficulties etc.
Dare I say that I love @BoBo1946 answer to the question. I must admit I have done some of those things myself He has such a great sense of humour, attempting to bring a smile to Fluther, without any malice. Don’t attack me please

My notification thing said I had 2 PM’s but when I opened they were not there. Wonder if that had anything to do with this??? .

@janbb – I think it was a very relevant question, one that confronts me (at age 66) much more frequently than I would like. Now I know what difficulties a woman faces,so it is interesting to read what males face on their side of life. Real answers are more relevant than those not funny condescending bull crap antique email forwards that I usually delete without even reading.

[mod says] We’re going to archive this thread. It has gotten way too off-track.