Just how could SB1070 be implemented totally devoid of racial profiling?

Treat everybody equally badly. Like when a grocery clerk asks me (45 yrs old) for ID when I buy alcohol.

here’s one to ponder. When there are 2 adjacent countries, where one is primarily one race and the other is mostly another it will always be easier to tell who belongs where. Like in Europe where the countries are small and tight it can be hard to tell right away if someone is in their own country, until they open their mouth. Then they can be placed, such as France and Germany, the people look pretty much the same at a glance. It just so happens that Mexicans are easy to tell apart from native born Americans. Yeah i know, they can’t help what they look like but that isn’t the issue. There is no right or wrong race of people. If they are in this country illegally they can’t really knock the authorities from wanting them to go back home. The bill isn’t supposed to address the fact it takes forever for Mexicans to naturalize. That is another topic altogether. A rule of thumb( and there will always be exceptions), is if you can’t speak a word of English then chances are you’re not here legally. Another rule of thumb(again exceptions) if you don’t hail from the American Southwest you don’t have a dog in this race.

@woodcutter “It just so happens that Mexicans are easy to tell apart from native born Americans.”

Um, what? There are plenty of people born in America who are of Mexican descent, and plenty of people born in Mexico who are now in America legally. How can you tell them apart from those here illegally? Answer: You can’t.

Never mind that most Mexicans look a lot more like real Native born Americans than most ‘Americans’ do.

Also, I don’t agree that if I’m not in the southwest that I shouldn’t have an opinion on this matter. People are people, and I care about how all of them are treated, no matter where they come from or where they are now.

When there are 2 adjacent countries, where one is primarily one race and the other is mostly another it will always be easier to tell who belongs where

You think only a certain race “belongs” in America?

@jaytkay OK, HERE WE GO AGAIN. You all should know me well by now about being politically correct here or anywhere. Ain’t happening. Now we got that out of the way, we all should also know by now that I will use clever little disclaimers such as but not limited to : generally, primarily, mostly, can be, pretty much, there will always be exceptions, chances are, possibly, etc. We all do this so as NOT to become cannon fodder on liberal sites like this one is. I get it. I’m going to put a twist in some people’s shorts on here sometimes. Did you read that just now? Sometimes? This should have cleared a few things up, I hope, or not.
Point being there will always be a method for LE to pick out those here Illegally regardless of skin color or perceived nationality. These people are trained to observe behavior that set off red flags, IT’S THEIR JOB. If a person is here illegally that person will know it. It just seems lame that they will have the gall to bitch about it when they are discovered, siting racism. If you don’t live in the South West, like I do, you might wonder just how easy it is to pick out an undocumented worker in a crowd. It’s real easy trust me and I’m no cop. Those of you who live out in these parts know how easy it is, whether you want to admit it or not.
If an undoc is stopped for speeding, evading, or other suspicious activity, they’re toast. They know it. So that’s why they are jumping out of AZ and into other states like the one I live in, and they are not all good hard working people trying to live. A lot of them are people involved in criminal activity in AZ not wanting to get busted so they move their operations here- thanks AZ, for that.
SB1070 is just a crude means to an end. It’s not a great law but the people in AZ ( who have plenty of dogs in this race) seem to believe this immigration mess has gone too far. There are already federal laws on the books to address this so this is an attempt to get the feds off their asses and do something about this already. It’s real easy to feel the need to stick your nose in another state’s business when you are safe and away from the action, Safe from having undocs steel your job for pennies on the dollar, safe from the crime and other bullshit like busted state budgets trying to cope with this. Yeah real easy to stay Waaaay up there on your high horse and judge.

@augustlan I never once said, or implied that people “from away” don’t get to have their opinion. If you are safe and away from the action it just isn’t as important to those who are neck deep in this.

@woodcutter Aside from the fact that I disagree with your premise (anyone’s opinion on the right of all people to be treated fairly and humanely is valid), I’ve worked with a number of immigrants over the years, legal and illegal. I’m from the Washington DC area, and if you don’t think there are a lot of immigrants here, you are mistaken.

Add to that, the fact the I worked in the landscaping industry for years and years, and nearly all landscape crews in these parts are Latino. I only knew who was illegal if I got to know them well, not just by looking at or listening to them. Also, they were from all sorts of places, not just Mexico, but I couldn’t tell that just from looking or listening either. By the way, not one of them (to my knowledge) was engaged in any criminal endeavor… they just worked their asses off (and paid their taxes, too).

@augustlan but are you now or ever been in a position where an undoc can get your job? Get it because they were willing to work a lot cheaper? If so, how did that feel? You can view this any way you want but the glaring fact is they are here illegally. Illegally…it’s a big deal. One more quick question, have you ever heard any of them who knowingly got a position (job) at the cost of an American’s job feel bad about that guy’s family or their well being? Ive been dieing to ask one myself but they either can’t understand my question or they act like the don’t get it. Do they even understand how their actions are gutting the wages of American’s in that field? Do you think they even care?

Sorry to hear your lifelong dream of becoming a mower of lawns isn’t working out. Perhaps you should choose another occupation, maybe pursue an education leading to a more skilled occupation.

@jaytkay WTF? are you still buying into that old urban myth or are you simply using an old worn out quote because you have little imagination. I was waiting for this thread to devolve to this, they always do whenever there is a guy defending American workers while being accused of picking on the poor Mexican HONEST HARD WORKER. That was pretty messed up even for a liberal leaning person. Please just how old are you? You get all your commentary from Bill Maher? What’s with the insult? Is it because you are really passionate with this subject or are you really an immature little jerk? Oh, I get it, you are still in the camp that really believes undocs only mow lawns, pick fruit, and clean motel rooms. Really? You do realize you just sounded a little uninformed right there. Sort of proves my point about the peanut gallery comments. We are still discussing SB107? In Arizona? Or did we go off on a tangent?
Your comment is typical of someone who looks a situation from afar thinking you understand reality on the ground. I have a dog in this race because I live in the southwest and see it going on therefore it automatically gives what I see more weight.
I tell ya buddy, that comment was unexpected really. If you want you can PM me after you think about what we all just saw you post. I didn’t insult you or anyone so what gives?
It’s people like you that can make it impossible to have a civil debate

@woodcutter I live in a city whose population is 20% foreign born. My neighborhood has areas where most billboards and store windows feature non-English adveritising.

I work in IT. A typical workplace for me is probably roughly 50% foreign. And yet I don’t whine about people encroaching on “my” job or “my” country.

Situations change. You can meet the challenges or you can fail. Take your pick.

@jaytkay It is plain to see you haven’t been paying attention to the situation down here. And why should you? Your situation is different. It’s always easy to make everything the same to simplify and make it easy to understand. At least now you are posting in a civil manner. it feels good doesn’t it? I accept your heart felt apology.

@woodcutter If an undoc is stopped for speeding, evading, or other suspicious activity, they’re toast. Anyone who is speeding risk getting pulled over. I am not clear on the evading part. Is that after they are going to get pulled over and they take off on a high speed chase? The suspicious activity is more nebulous. Three Hispanics in work attire leaning one their trucks outside of Lowes talking about sports might look suspicious to law enforcement who can’t hear what they are talking about or understand of they are speaking Spanish.

It is not so much about what jobs they will take because many illegals that don’t look Hispanic are doing just the same. I had a friend whos BGF was here illegally from Hungry. She came on a student visa and when it expired never renewed it and never left. And she was here working and not at jobs most American would pass up but many Americans go after, waitress, clerk, nanny, etc. She could be as illegal as all out doors but if she went through Arizona would she risk being pulled over and if she was would she be asked to “show her papers”, because of her accent? The only way that law can be fair is if anyone who is white or black with an accent is not asked to “show papers” the law racial profiles. How many people with an UK or French accent will go for having to prove they belong here or have a copy of their citizenship papers in the car before people start to see how divisive this law is?

@Hypocrisy_Central its late so i will address each point individually. When I mention evading it was meant as a catch all term for trying to avoid cops and I’m sure we have seen the stories of some undocs speeding away upon being stopped because they are worried they will be discovered. Many will try to avoid interaction with LE just to be on the safe side. These people are not ignorant meaning they are well aware of their immigration status or lack thereof. The local police in a given area usually have a handle on who’s new in the area especially in those border states. Like I mentioned before, LE are trained to recognize suspicious activity, body language, etc. They aren’t going to sweep all illegals up at one time, many won’t be looked at. The cops get tips from people to act on. They don;t have some magic method for knowing where they all will be.
On the subject of other nationalities; yes if they get caught they will have some splaining to do as well. There is the misconception that this is an all Mexican round up. I think the bill is worded to mean all people who are not here legally. The fact that most illegals there happen to be of hispanic decent is a factual coincidence. And this is ripe for race- baiters to make it personal for that reason to muddy the situation. The fact that some may be here working, doing things that some Americans might not want to do is irrelevant. Even if they are unemployed they are still here illegally.The fact that I grumble about the job situation is because I’m in construction and have seen the corruption first hand and I’m not even in AZ. A lot of good tradesmen are being forced out of their trade because they can’t compete with those who are willing to work for ridiculously low wages. I’m all for fair competition but when these folks agree to work that cheap there is no competition…it’s wrong. I also believe if a person is not involved in the trades (you) they are apt to be less than sympathetic to those who are struggling to hang on, playing by the rules.Many of these undocs are payed under the table, cash, therefore no income tax, ss withholding, nothing. There will be some people who will be caught who are not Hispanic, not as many but probably the catch rate will correspond to the ratio spread of all nationalities in the area. SB107 isn’t a perfect bill but is an attempt to start doing something, anything. That area of the country has been absorbing these people for decades and it was never a situation that could be expected to go on indefinitely there. The federal govt has been reluctant to do much about this problem. The majority of the states’ legal residents are in support of this. Playing the race card has historically been the trump card to use when there is strong disagreement to whip up hysteria to make it all about that. Live down there for a while and see what’s going on first before we say that AZ residents are racists. If you do that and still come away with the same feeling then at least you can speak with some first hand knowledge about this. Don’t just lockstep with Huffington or Madow they are just parroting the same agenda driven message.

The only way I can tell Mexicans from ‘Mericans is because the Mexicans are working their butts off in all kinds of weather. So, if I had to enforce it, I’d just drive around looking for buttless Mexicans when it’s 110 degrees in the shade. Then I’d send them all back to Mexico, and bitch because nothing around town gets fixed any more.

I suppose one analogy could be to compare this to the TSA checking people out before they board a plane. It is accepted that a person who would commit acts of terror are apt to be Middle Eastern man or women. Now these people will tell you it’s unfair to them for people to be suspicious of them based on their nationality. I can see their point, really I do but, the statistics are there. With the limited funds for this the efforts made need to be targeted more directly towards wherever it will be the most effective no matter who it might inconvenience. Seems logical to me, seems logical to most people. Then on occasion the screeners will yank a 90 year old white woman or even a toddler aside and give them the “rubber glove treatment” Huh? why? Do they honestly think they could be on to something there? Of course not but they need to show they are suspicious of other people as well as Saudis, etc. Keeps them from being sued, they think. Using logic it just makes sense if you are trying to find things that are hard to find, you will look for them first in a place where you know they might / will be. Start with the target rich areas then spiral outwards to the less likely places. Remember we are working with finite resources so results need to happen swiftly so yes economics does come into play.
Back to SB 107. Since history has shown, MOST people who are here illegally are Hispanic. Sure there are Asians and just about every other race here too but the majority will be Hispanics, due in part to the proximity of Mexico and places south of there. So really in light of the reasons sited above would it make sense to investigate blacks, Asians, and dare I mention, whites first, when the odds are that the illegals are not these people?
Just something to ponder.