Is it right to edit classics like Hucklberry Finn to take out all the derogatory words?
Personally, I don’t think so. I think it is important to read those classics as they were written. It is also important to understand the context in which they were written.
To me this creates a giant learning opportunity.
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I completely agree with you. It reeks of the 1984-esque rewriting history. Sterilizing classics strips them of many important levels of meanings, eliminates an important possibility for understanding our history, our culture, the human condition. It’s a huge mistake.
No. Should Mein Kampf be re-written so that Hitler comes off a nicer guy? Should we cover David’s penis or any other nudes and Michelangelo did? No! Because a word is wrong now doesn’t mean it doesn’t have historical context. If it stays in the book then we can talk about it. Whitewashing our history is a mistake.
@john65pennington specifically I read a story recently that a group in the U.S. wanted to edit the “n” word out of Huckleberry Finn.
No,of course it is not good.
It’s a terrible idea, and @nikipedia is right, it pretty much is like 1984. I think people assume everyone is overly sensitive about touchy subjects, but really things like the “N” word being used in an old book can give you a chance to try and understand an old culture more.
Tranquilsea, you know the way i look at this? its history, it happened and neither you or i can change that fact. i was not around when this occured and neither were you. you cannot change history, you can’t even change the bad memories of history. i say leave the book “as is”.
@john65pennington I agree. If we sanitize history then how can we ever understand just how far we’ve come or, how far we have yet to go.
Consider the Censored Eleven Looney Tunes cartoons that will probably never be shown on TV again. They are in extremely poor taste by today’s standards, but pretending like they never happened will only ensure that things like it will happen again.
Censorship is fucking dildos.
Nah. But there are real concerns that if people don’t understand the historical context of certain these books they may get the wrong idea. However, the right way to handle this is to teach people more history (e.g. with an introduction, etc.. to the book that sets the stage).
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know who exactly wants to censor the book? I’ve read a bunch of op/eds on the issue but I don’t believe any of them have said who exactly is fighting for censorship…is it jumpy school districts eager to be PC? People of color who find it offensive? Parents who don’t want their children exposed to the language? Just interested. (I’m against the censorship, by the way, for pretty much the same reasons everyone else has listed).
@Frankie I wish I could remember who it was. I can’t find the link now.
We can’t whitewash history nor should we. The presence of the word is a teaching opportunity.
Nope. They should be ashamed of themselves.
Who comes up with these schemes? Which group and what is their intended purpose?
I think we should edit Fiddle Players screen name!
FLUTHER PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT:
We have this chucklefuck to thank for the censored version of Huck Finn. His rationale is basically that of hand-wringing bitchitude. He apparently believes that ”[the edited edition] would be more friendly to teachers and students at schools which currently ban the book.”
Apparently his own head is rammed so far up his colon that through the darkness, he can’t see the fact that he is just engaging in the same type of behavior he seems to be opposed to. You can’t pre-emptively censor something to prevent it from being censored. That doesn’t make any goddamn sense.
Seriously, people need to stop being such giant, raging pussies and this world will be a better place.
Mon visage when people engage in these shenanigans.
/rant
@Dutchess_III, try me
No. If fuckheads don’t allow the book because of the language in it, then their loss.
I think the books should be loudly and very publicly condemned, banned from school curricula and libraries, and any discussion of them in school strictly prohibited. No reason need be given; in fact, it’s better if one is not attempted.
That would pretty much guarantee that they’d be read cover to cover and thoroughly enjoyed by most school children. With the added up side that there would be no test afterward.
I think Mark Twain would approve. I read his books, and I’m sure he would have recommended exactly the same thing.
I don’t think they should edit words (eg., “nigger”) in “Huckleberry Finn” at all. The novel was written during a time when that word was in common usage——whether it was derogatory or not at that time, it reflects the mindset/culture/tradition of that era. When people read it today, they have the opportunity to look back and question and evaluate the “culture of ignorance” that existed back then (if you can call it ignorance, if it was part of common usage). In other words, today’s readers have a chance to sit back and think “Wow, people used that word everyday. See how times have changed. I’m glad times have changed.” If you take that word or other “derogatory” words out of that novel, people today lose the opportunity to reflect on that era and make constructive criticism. We learn from history and the “mistakes” people made in the past.
It’s sort of like taking an antique jewelry piece that was made in the 1800s and making modifications to it to “improve” its look. You lose a piece of history——how things were done back then, however flawed, just to make it look better. But leaving the antique jewelry piece alone, we can appreciate its “flaws” and how things were done back then.
Thanks y’all.
@Dutchess_III, a fairy? You have gotttt to be kidding me?
LOL! You mean I don’t seem like Fairy material?? Humph! We had Fairy Fridays on Wisdm sometimes. The guys had a bit of a tough time finding avatars for themselves but they managed, with some hilarious outcomes!! That’s my Avenging Dutchess. She has kicked many an ass in other wars!
It is easy to defend a classic like Huck Finn in these cases, but what if they did this to Manchild In The Promised Land? I had to read that in high school, and I hated every minute.
@Dutchess_III, I’m friends with a fairy on facebook, actually. She’s kind of hot.
Is that you in your avatar? I have news for you….that’s not a fiddle!
Some books are great because of the raw truthfulness in their writing. Some books you can’t edit one single word without destroying what it is that makes it great.
@Dutchess_III, yep that’s me. I’m way better at guitar than fiddle. In fact, I suck at fiddle.
One of the worst parts about this douchenozzle’s censorship scheme is that he referred to black characters in the novel as “slave” even when they weren’t even slaves because he thought that was an acceptable alternative to “n*gger.”
Had he even read it? Makes you wonder….
You know, censoring something like Huck Finn would be akin to censoring the male character in The Scarlet Letter to be something other than a preacher…say, turn him into a pro golfer. Something that wouldn’t offend anyone…except other pro golfers and who cares about them!
Simply, no. If anyone is voting for this, they clearly have not read this book. If they have, then they have no idea that there is a message in the story. They didn’t read carefully. That’s becoming a real problem. Single word meanings are more important than overall meaning? How are we supposed to teach kids this stuff otherwise?
Also, it’s important to note that this dude’s version isn’t being forced on anyone, as far as I can tell. I’d be more pissed if this was some kind of required thing, or the goobermint was getting involved. For now, he’s just some crazy PC hack.
I’ll add my voice to the chorus voting “nay”. Sure, the “N” word is derogatory. That’s also how people spoke back then. If we whitewash the past, how are we supposed to learn about/ from it? Also, what is offensive to one may not be to another. It offends ME how self-appointed entities (people, organizations, governments, etc.) frantically attempt to shove their own biases down everyone else’s throats! I personally have far less of a problem with naughty language and female anatomy than I do with, say, the Disney Channel’s widely-promoted ideals. So until they ease off with the false whitebread cheerfulness embodied by the tween du jour: Fuck. Shit. Piss. And boobies. ;P
@peridot Fuck. Shit. Piss. And boobies
Quote of the century.
Maybe in the children’s Scholastic version? It doesn’t seem right to do it with all versions.
No, not even in the children’s Scholastic version.
“If it isn’t broken, don’t fix it.”
@Bluefreedom [devil’s advocate] But it is broke! Twain’s work is a relic of a bygone, oppressive age and should either be destroyed, or updated for the modern, forward-thinking audience! [/devil’s advocate]
Well devil’s advocate, then don’t fucking read it. ;D
@everephebe, but the fact that such writing even exists is a sign of the hegemonical old-order that has enslaved and oppressed people for much too long. As long as it exists, there will be people who misinterpret it, and perpetuate racism and inequality. We must preemptively nip these issues in the bud by eliminating all references to them!
@Fiddleplayer is playing Moron Fiddle Guy! And doin a right nice job, too!
@Dutchess_III, I used to troll my sociology professor all the time with this spiel. Trolling is a art, and I am a artist.
Yes, you are good!! Good Troll!
@Fiddle_Playing_Creole_Bastard,
Yeah I think we should fire bomb all libraries in the world that may or may not contain Mark Twain because he was a pokemon, and you gotta catch ‘em all. Food for thought, that and what China did in Nepal to get rid of the old ways. Good stuff.
You are on a starvation diet from now on @Fiddle_Playing_Creole_Bastard! BTW..you made an egregious error today. All of this time I thought you were a scraggly, black-haired, crawdad-eating 40-something guy so I was a little wary of you….BUT now I know you are young enough to be one of my kids! Now, go to your room for making above suggestions!
@everephebe Yeah, that and ban the Bible for all of its “hegemonical old-order that has enslaved and oppressed people for much too long. ”
@Dutchess_III hey I’m all for it, it’s a dirty dirty work of pornography. Oh wait when I say it like that, I want to keep it around.
@Dutchess_III I thought you were a scraggly, black-haired, crawdad-eating 40-something guy so I was a little wary of you…
Hardly! yeah… check out dem shouldahs!
@everephebe he was a pokemon, and you gotta catch ‘em all.
I lol’d heartily.
Well, yeah, like that @Fiddle_Playing_Creole_Bastard! Only with long, greasy, curly unwashed hair with crawdads crawling around in it!
@everephebe You really have to use your imagination to see the porn in it!
Any history that disagrees with what Big Brother says is a lie designed to topple society and thus should be treated as treason. We should censor more things in order to preserve and protect our Utopia.
@Dutchess_III, you know what begat means? Well there is a whole lot of that in the bible. And all the “knowings”. Not to mention all that nasty incest stuff with Lot and his daughters. Need I bring up the Song of Solomon too?
And don’t forget Noah cursing his kids when he got drunk and passed out nekid in his tent!
@Dutchess_III,
Yeah, I was trying to remember this the other day, one of the words used in that story of Noah, has a deeper sexual meaning. I think the word is saw? It implies something naughty.
Yes, but as I said, you really have to use your imagination to saw see it! And you know what else is messed up? They were able to trace Jesus’ geneology back about 50 generations, yet we, in the information age, can’t even go back five!
Talk about imagination, and I thought I had one! :D
You might be interested in this thread, which addresses this as well.
I have to interject here, before I go to work…..IMO, this is a perfect example of why it should be perfectly OK to ask the same question twice. Auggie directed everyone to another thread regarding this same question…but that thread is dead. I posted on that other thread, and it’s dead. Dead, dead, dead. But in doing so, it effectively killed this conversation too.
I never saw the other post, but I did see this one, and I was having a nice time right here. But it’s dead now. Dead, dead, dead.
Bye ya’ll!!
@Dutchess_III I was surprised to see that other question as I didn’t get it in my “Questions for you” either. I’ll have to go back and check the tags.
It has been great getting everyone’s point of view as I think we have to be diligent with loony ideas like this lest the people involved actually succeed.
@tranquilsea I so agree…this world has become far to PC and sterilized.
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