ICE agents killed in Mexico. What action do you believe President Obama will take, in this incident?

Not sure how much he really CAN do unfortunately. I would say he could send out some kind of clandestine police force, but you’re a fool if you think that we don’t already have them in Mexico at full force. I’d say he could get on the Mexican police/military/government to solve the crimes.. But their hands are full as it is, what can they really do? We can’t just send our own military into Mexico. The argument could be made that this is a good reason why we need to majorly beef up border security, but the killings were IN Mexico so the argument doesn’t really make sense.

He can work with Mexican authorities to have the killers apprehended, but it is foreign soil. There is not much he can do.

End the war on drugs….. syke

If we were consistent, we’d send some drones over and bomb the hell of them, but we’re not.

What SHOULD he do? Take out a top drug lord for every one of our people they killed.

What WILL he do? Throw serious platitudes at them.

I agree with @marinelife !

Most illegally obtained weapons in Mexico come from the United States, a country with very lax gun control laws. Americans are upset about all the cocaine coming from Mexico and other Latin American countries. And they declare a war on drugs.

So I wonder, are Mexicans upset about all the illegal weapons coming from the US?

@mattbrowne

I would love to see some proof about “all the illegal weapons coming from the US.” Other than wild allegations, I have seen nothing so far.

What is a “ICE Agent”?
Why where they in Mexico?

@CaptainHarley

“I wonder if we are all aware of the immense damage that our cavalier treatment of the business of gun sales is doing to our neighbor to the south. There are thousands of gun dealers along our border with Mexico whose principal purpose is to sell powerful weapons to Mexican drug barons. This flood of armaments has produced a bloodbath in that country that is close to destroying it.”

http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20110130/OPINION02/110128037/1007/COLUMNISTS

“Arms smuggling from the United States into Mexico has become a big factor in an increased level of violence south of the border. Mexico’s gun laws are stricter than those in the United States, so as illegal drugs flow north into America, illegal weapons go south into Mexico.”

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4667960

“We are concerned about the number of weapons coming into Mexico and Central America illegally from the United States,” Attorney General Alberto Gonzales said last month when he was attending a conference in Cuernavaca, south of Mexico City. “There is more that we can do, and we are looking to do, to try and stem the flow of illegal weapons into Mexico.”

Mexican officials are frantic over the escalation of violence – more than a thousand people have been slain throughout the country in the first six months of this year in drug-related violence as drug cartels establish new leaders to replace the ones who have been arrested and extradited to the United States.

“The firepower we are seeing here has to do with a lack of control on the (American) side of the border,” Patricio Patiño, Mexico’s top anti-drug intelligence officer, told reporters in June. “What we have asked the American government… is that they put clear controls on the shipments of weapons.”

http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=ae0f349b5a2797fa94e4da7f5022104f

@CaptainHarley Amen on the killing drug lords…. Now if only we could actually capture them.

End the war on drugs. No syke.

From a report on the shootings, which resulted in the death of one of the officers (from the most current news I saw):

Nationwide, almost 35,000 people have been killed in drug violence since President Felipe Calderon launched a military crackdown against drug trafficking shortly after taking office in December 2006.

Indeed, ”[a]ccording to a Stratfor report, the number of drug-related deaths in 2006 and 2007 (2,119 and 2,275) more than doubled to 5,207 in 2008. The number further increased substantially over the next two years, from 6,598 in 2009 to over 11,000 in 2010.” [source]

One quick note – just to clarify everything – most of the AK-47s (which is a select-fire AK variant) don’t come from the U.S. – although the U.S. is responsible as stated for a good amount of the arms trade, and it’s questionable whether arms coming from other Latin American countries would have been sourced through the U.S. at an earlier time. [source 2]

Besides ending the war on drugs, the U.S. should offer all assistance necessary in apprehending those responsible. Following capture, the U.S. should request extradition for prosecution in the U.S. There’s an increasing amount of successful cooperation between the U.S. and Mexico, and a bilateral extradition treaty as well as a skyrocketing increase of Mexican nationals to the U.S. for prosecution. [source 3]

@mattbrowne We’re quite upset about it.

I don’t think there’s an easy answer. As long as (some) Americans continue to be such gun-toting crackheads, there will be drugs and there will be armed cartels willing to provide them. If drugs are legalized, do you think the cartels would simply pack up and find an honest way to make a living?

These guys were ICE agents, not DEA agents, so their investigation most likely had to do with human trafficking, which along with drugs and arms dealing, is one of the most profitable businesses on Earth. What should be done about that?

@john65pennington Only one agent was killed. The other one was injured and is now out of the hospital.

Obama won’t end the war on drugs. He’s apart of the a major American political party which means he’s a big fat hypocrite. Bush was too.

@jlelandg – I completely agree – but the more people that are saying that he should, the more people will eventually be able to demand that whoever is in charge at some point in the future actually do it. ;-)

Has anyone ever wondered whether Mexico has been pissed at the United States for not controlling their flow of guns and cash? They work hard to prevent their people from leaving, and to break down the cartels. But you never hear Mexico’s side of things in our national media.

You don’t hear from the media of how several sittings of Presidentes have said “this is a shared task, this border management.” It is.

This is a global world, with translation becoming easier. Search for Mexico’s complaints over the past few decades, citing how American arms are making their country more dangerous. America is essentially funding and arming the drug cartels.

Learn. Don’t be blind.

@squirbel

The only way in which America is “funding and arming the drug cartels” is by buying their double-damned DOPE!

@mattbrowne

Barefaced allegations totally unsupported by statistics or facts. The anti-gun fanatics are trying to build their case for gun bans in the US by unfounded allegations that the right to bear arms is somehow contributing to violence in Mexico. What absolute and utter bullshit! Where’s the PROOF?

@CaptainHarley: I have nothing to say to you, as you are not open to discussion.

@squirbel

What you really mean is that it’s obvious that I’m never going to agree with you on this. Anyone who uses dope is almost certainly contributing to the cartels, and the allegation that somehow our Constitutional right to bear arms is causing the violence in Mexico is a red-herring. If tomorrow everyone in the USA decided to stop using dope, the cartels would disappear.

@CaptainHarley

That’s a chicken-and-egg argument, though – as government policies create a black market, the fact that money floods that market is due to the government policies.

I also don’t see how the arms arguments above are “barefaced allegations totally unsupported by statistics or facts.”

Since 1992 (and as recently as 2009), the Congressional Research Service has stated that the ATF tracing system is an operational system designed to help law enforcement agencies identify the ownership path of individual firearms and it was not designed to collect statistics. Nevertheless, on February 2008, William Hoover, Assistant Director for Field Operations of ATF testified before Congress that over 90% of the firearms that have either been recovered in, or interdicted in transport to Mexico, originated from various sources within the United States. However, following a review by the U.S. Office of the Inspector General (OIG) on September 2010, the ATF admitted that “the 90% figure cited to Congress could be misleading because it applied only to the small portion of Mexican crime guns that are traced.” During this 2010 review by the OIG, the ATF could not provide updated information on the percentage of traced Mexican crime guns that were sourced to (that is, found to be manufactured in or imported through) the United States, and the November 2010 OIG analysis of ATF data suggest a much lower percentage, ranging from 27% to 44%. The OIG analysis of ATF data concluded that ATF’s attempts to expand gun tracing in Mexico have been unsuccessful. While the United States is not the only source of firearms and munitions used by the cartels, it has been established that a significant percentage of their firearms originate from gun stores and other sources in the U.S. [source]; [ATF source]; [CRS source]

Addressing these issues should in fact be part of the U.S. response. This is not an allegation – it is supported by factual evidence. Response also doesn’t require any offense to U.S. Second Amendment rights, as the concern should be properly addressed to cross-boarder sale and transfer as well as what should be proper background checks on sales.

Let’s agree that the characterization of “lax gun control laws” is what is irksome for you – but I want to point out that such a criticism can be reasonably directed at the gun market, which does have serious problems, rather than a citizen right to bear arms.

@iamthemob

You do understand, do you not, that fully automatic weapons are forbidden weapons in the US ( except for a very few exceptions granted by the BATF&E )?

@CaptainHarley

I do, however…I don’t see how that makes a difference, considering that you’re the first person to mention the nature of the weapon (indeed, to mention automatic at all…).

You do understand, do you not, that the general argument has nothing to do with the types of arms sold within the U.S.? That, in fact, it is also not about the legal trade, or trade that properly comports with regulations? And further, you do also understand that a semi-automatic weapon can be converted into a fully automatic weapon, right?

@iamthemob

Well, DUH!

The weapons the cartels use are almost exclusively fully automatic. They have the money ( BILLIONS of dollars, thanks to American druggies ) to build their own smuggling submarines. I think they can afford to either build their own fully automatic weapons or buy them, without having to buy semi-automatics and then taking the time and expense to convert them.

The point is that there may be sources of American guns for the cartels, but they are illegal weapons and have nothing whatsoever to do with the legal weapons trade within the US, yet this is exactly what the gun-ban idiots are trying to say, that it is the LEGAL trade which channels weapons into the hands of the cartels.

It would be nice if they just went ahead and legalized marijuana. That would really cut a deep hole in the cartels pockets (not to mention boost our economy). And frankly I’d say probably 80%+ of the people I know in my life (including those far older than I) have at least TRIED it (fair notice, I have never done it).

As far as the other drugs like cocaine and heroin, we are right to fight them, even if its an un-winnable war.

As far as the guns… Yes a lot of the cartels guns are coming from America through back water and black market channels (corrupt gun manufacturers and arms dealers, etc). But its not as if the US somehow stopped all illegal weapons going into Mexico, that the dealers would suddenly have none. A lot of their guns come from Asia (AK’s for example), black market out of the middle east, or even from corrupt army and police agents in Mexico. They simply try to get the US ones because its cheaper, and they probably trust the “brand” better.

@CaptainHarley

I’d actually like to see your data on whether the guns used are almost “exclusively automatic.” That’s a pretty defined claim, and also doesn’t clearly relate to the origin. I don’t agree or disagree that the U.S. is really “flooding Mexico” with guns – but I feel it’s naive to not admit that the U.S. is a good solid source of a recognizable percentage.

Now, again – “American druggies” are not funding this. There is a black market without which there would be no funding. Did American alchies fund organized crime in the prohibition? Nominally…but the fact that the war on drugs has done little but to increase supply, reduce price, and refine the quality of drugs in America indicates that the market exists, it can either be regulated or criminal, we make it criminal, and therefore it is exploited only by the criminals.

“Gun ban idiots” does nothing to help your argument. I believe that turning the debate to the gun issue (the turn here being much your own creation, ironically) muddies many of the underlying problem – you mention the billions these people have – because they are able to exploit the drug market. We get distracted from the real cause.

@iamthemob

Of course the US is one source of weapons for Mexico ( although I suspect only a very small source, though I cannot support this with statistics ). I tend to overreact because I’m overly sensitive to attempts by the gun-banners to disarm us at the very moment when it becomes more important than ever to be armed. Sorry. Overstated my case a bit. : )

@CaptainHarley

I understand – I get sensitive to people overstating their case because I feel like it distracts from practical solutions.

And, in the end, hyperbolic rhetoric on one side inevitably inspires hyperbolic rhetoric on the other.

Of course, the hyperboles on the side that we agree with always sound more reasonable. ;-)

I would guess that the conservatives think we should invade Mexico.

@bob_ – Yes. Human trafficking is a very complicated problem. The criminals making money with this do rely on thing: very desperate people. In Europe forced prostitution is a big problem. Young women are being told that they could work as models in Western European countries for example. Then this never happens. The victims usually don’t contact the police because this can threaten their lives or that of their families.