Should the "world powers" do anything about Libya?

Step in if you want more people resent you

Sometimes, we “step in” and the people in the affected country feel we “step on” them. Regardless of our good intentions, our country’s big feet seem to trip us up.

I agree. If we go in, it will be seen as American expansivism, or another Crusade.
We need to allow this to happen without us, or it will be believed that we caused it.

@filmfann – It is already believed that we caused it:
The Federal Reserve Is Causing Turmoil Abroad

“When the Fed floods the world with dollars, the dollar price of commodities goes up, and this affects market prices generally, particularly in poor countries that are heavily import-dependent.”

@fireside I have not seen one thing that blamed the US for the goings on in Libya. it was a spread of the democracy movement that began in Tunisia.

We should not go in. Libya has sovereign boundaries.

The US (and probably no other country for that matter) isn’t going into Libya on its own. If any “peacekeepers” are brought in it’d be through the UN.

And even then it will only be if sh*t REALLY hits the fan.

@marinelife – Admittedly, the only thing I have seen is that opinion column I linked in my previous post which alleges that central bankers at the G-20 believe the US is exporting inflation which is causing unrest in the Middle East.

I don’t think we should go in and do anything either. This will resolve itself one way or another and will be less likely to do harm to the US, aside from the cost of oil, if we stay out of it.

Hold on the Federal Reserve is not a government owned business. This is a private business and most are European owners.

Libya is already making Tienanmen Square look like Toys R Us by comparison.

Military aircraft being ordered to strafe civilians? Ambassadors quitting because their families are being killed? All bullshit…. it’s a massacre over there, and I haven’t heard anyone call it for what it is.

I’d love to see this greasy, gelatinous scumbag strung up by his own people outside of a gas station, but something tells me that won’t happen.

I think stepping in with peacekeepers would probably be the greater of the two evils, at this point at least.

No! Gaddafi’s fucked & he knows it. Let the sorry episode play out & the tinpot tyrant will surely get what’s long overdue. His balls cut off with a rusty blade.

Hmm, I think the UN should establish a “no fly zone” to keep Libyan aircraft from slaughtering Libyan protesters, but otherwise not get involved and let the people overthrow the government for themselves.

Gaddafi is rather bloated looking these days, a far cry from the dashing young revolutionary, very peculiar man, he’d be a laughing stock if he weren’t so murderous. i feel someone in the entourage needs to put a bullet in the hollow at the base of the skull, whilst he is in mid rant, put the Libyans out of their misery, but alas, real life is never that neat. Please let there be peace soon. But no, this is a fight for the Libyans no more foreign intervention, accusations of genocide are pure hyperbole, thankfully, otherwise, you bet, get the UN boys in tout suite.

I think the people will take over eventually and we should keep out of it.

I’m on the fence. On one hand, I think other countries should fight their own wars and settle their own mess, and that the UN or US should just stay the hell out of it.

On the other, I hear all of the nasty stuff going on in some countries (not just Libya) and I think to myself “How on earth can we just sit around and watch these things happen?”.

Tough call. If it were up to me, we’d count to 3 and the world would be done tearing itself apart.

@Disc2021 I agree with you it is a tough call. If we could use the power at our disposal to force actions of the world would it be a good thing? When someone like a Totalitarian Dictator took over that power how would it then be controlled? Tough call indeed and one I’m glad I don’t have to make.

At some point, yes, definitely. Based on a UN mandate. The world cannot watch the slaughter of thousands of people and do nothing. And it should be European NATO forces. Perhaps partnering with the Egyptian military. The US is involved in too many wars already. Libya is a southern neighbor of Europe.

But at this point there’s still a good chance the Libyans can get rid of their tyrant on their own.

The sad thing is we have watch the African nations killing millions and we have really not done much there to help matters. When oil and the mid east is concerned then America gets more involved.

We failed in Rwanda. But we stopped the slaughter in Kosovo.

The thing is we do have the might to take any nation on the planet but we restrain ourselves from using it. Which is a good thing but get that power into the wrong hands and things could become quite different than they are right now.

I don’t think it’s at all clear yet that the Gadaffi regime is going down. Some military leaders have defected, but Libya’s military is not remotely well-organized and runs concurrently with several militias. It also appears that Gadaffi is leaning heavily on mercenaries.

I’ve seen reports that Gadaffi’s jets shot at protesters, but then later reports make it seem like they were only firing at arms depots. Also, some pilots have defected. So, it’s not entirely clear that foreigners establishing air superiority would (1) accomplish much to protect protesters, or (2) do more good than harm in terms of propaganda.

@mattbrowne, I agree with you, especially about partnering with Egypt or other Arab/African militaries… but recent history shows that Western-backed force can backfire so catastrophically, especially in regions with a recent history of brutal colonialism. It worked fairly well in Bosnia (which is in Europe) but Western force completely backfired in Mogadishu and, of course, Iraq. In theory, I totally support a world peacekeeping body tasked with reigning in despots and preventing political massacres and genocide, but until such a body exists and has legitimacy, I’m not sure it’s worth the risk.

What about getting the Israelis involved….?not! i’m very disappointed with the quality of Intel coming out of Libya, some of it is outrageous, even the BBC and the British Foreign Secretary following up on rumours that Colonel Gaddafi had fled to Venezuela, that seemed so outlandish, like Hugo Chavez would harbour a screaming murderous tyrant like Gaddafi, that was outlandish, but wait, hang on, let’s smear Chavez, while we’re at it, perhaps the Oil rich Socialist Venezuela could do very well out of this hideous state of affairs.

It is best not to get involved at this point. If banned weapons are used or mass murder carried out then we should do what is necessary to stop it.

@Qingu – I’d say it’s very likely that the regime is going down, but there are no guarantees. Eastern Libya is controlled by anti-regime forces and it is now possible for Western journalists to enter Libya via Sallum, Egypt. Yesterday, I was watching a detailed report from a German journalist who talked to many Libyans who live in Eastern Libya. More and more Libyan soldiers are refusing to shoot at their fellow citizens, so at some point Gadaffi can only rely on his mercenaries from various African countries and some loyal people from his own tribe. Most of the other Libyan tribes do not support him anymore. So the question here is: How long will this civil war last?

I think the UN Security Council should meet soon. A quick win might be establishing a no-fly zone, so jets and helicopters cannot engage in mass killings anymore.

Yeah, if violence continues to worsen I am leaning more towards supporting international intervention of force. But it has to be genuinely international, with the Arab and African unions heavily involved.

Considering that America (even under Bush, but especially with Obama now) is pretty popular in many parts of Africa, hopefully the administration can lean on the African Union to push Gadaffi out. Though frankly he should have been tried for crimes against humanity decades ago.

Many European politicians are already considering some kind of military intervention, not only to save trapped European citizens, but also to stop the ongoing slaughter. Lot’s of debates going on right now, see for example

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,747480,00.html

I think it’s time for Europe to act as one. But one troublemaker has already emerged: Italy.
Berlusconi seems to run some kind of European version of the Tea Party. He’s a complete, selfish horny lunatic often quite unwilling to cooperate with other European leaders. Italy and Hungary are like Texas and Arizona. Too many ultra-conservative zealots.

Yes, Gadaffi should be tried in The Hague. Will Obama endorse the international court at some point?

As much as I like Obama, unfortunately I wouldn’t count on it (endorsing the international court). I was super disappointed when he vetoed the UN resolution against Israeli settlers recently. I think it’s probably due more to his consensus-driven pragmatism than some ideological dysfunction, but America likes to believe it’s exceptional and not subject to international norms.

@mattbrowne i’d like to see Europe act unilaterally, and cut out America entirely, America are almost certainly to blame for the Despotism that plague’s Africa and the middle East. it is time to punish America. America has drifted imperceptibly along the currents of fascism. A spell in the wilderness to reflect would do her good.

@Qingu Obama the `quiet man’ will probably lose the next election, which is a shame,
because i’d like to see him push through his pet projects during a final term, but American government as an institution have mechanisms firmly in place to stop Presidents going rogue, very, very difficult to deviate from the script.