Why should men have a say in abortion laws?

because they’re the reason your wanting an abortion in the first place…

I suppose it’s because that to people who believe life begins at conception, the male member of the duo contributed to the life being created.

Because when a child is born from their seed, they are at least 50% financially responsible for the life they helped to make. That is 1 of many reasons. Besides, there are other gender based issues, and you can’t have one set of lawmakers for men, and another for woman. Once you start to subdivide like that, then where would it stop?

Because a woman can’t get pregnant without a man. Since it takes both, opinions on abortion should be from both.

the reason has nothing to do with who can or can’t get pregnant and how.

if we started deciding that only those who are directly affected by a law get to decide the law, we would be setting an insane and terrible precedent. only old people choosing laws affecting the elderly…only drivers setting traffic law…only immigrants creating immigration law…only children writing legislation on child labor and child welfare—come on, you know that would be nuts.

the people whose interests are most affected should have a significant voice in the matter. but all citizens have a stake in the welfare of all. we elect our legislators and representatives to act for us, and we expect them to do it responsibly regardless of their sex.

@Jeruba yes and I thought about that too but everyone is a child at one point, every one is elderly at one point…okay, immigration, that’s true. But a man will never be a woman, and a man will never need to decide whether or not to abort. That’s all I’m saying.

i get what you’re saying but it is no basis for law.

@Jeruba Except that women aren’t asking men to make laws regarding abortion; they’re asking them to refrain from making laws about abortion.

Because the child-to-be is half his.

And this is why natural bitch control is one of the things we rewilders teach and learn. Nobody can stop us from having that power.

As a man, I don’t feel we should have much or any say. We’re not the ones carrying a fetus for 9 months. I don’t even particularly think lots of women should have a say on laws. It’s up to individual women to decide based on their own circumstances and those of their community.

@marinelife No it’s not. We’re talking about abortion laws, not the actual abortion of any specific child. The likelihood that a male lawmaker is trying to pass a bill that will specifically affect his, and only his, unborn child is very, very, very low.

Because we don’t want women controlling everything.

I just realized that my post says “natural bitch control”. How the hell did I even make that typo?

@jellyfish3232 Do you mean in regards to pregnancy?

@deni

You seem to be missing the most basic point. Man or woman we were all fetuses at one point. The notion that just because your a woman means you can snuff out an innocent life, is bizzare at best.

I presume you are really asking if men should have meaningful input into an abortion decision. Practically, of course they should. Legally, they do not because the law exists based on an argument on privacy for a woman and her decisions about her body.

@Jaxk A bizarre point that over half the US population disagrees with you on in all or most cases.

@MyNewtBoobs

I’m not sure that’s true. Most people simply refuse to look at it that way. For some reason there is an assumption that in the short time it takes the head to emerge from the birth canal life is created. Not true. The doctor does not breath life into the fetus, life was already there.

@Jaxk No, really, over half the population disagrees with you. And maybe if that many disagree with you, you shouldn’t assume that your black and white view is more important than all the other citizens of America.

@Jaxk You have your beliefs, and that’s fine. It’s not a matter of people refusing to look at it the way you do. Just as you have reasons for your beliefs and have likely looked at both sides of an issue, so have people who disagree with you.

@Jaxk Abortions don’t occur when a fetus is formed. They are performed early on in the pregnancy, which, in fact, even the Bible says is before a fetus is a living person (which occurs at “the Quickening”).

Note: I’m not a Christian and I don’t use that as my argument. Just thought I should bring that bit of trivia out.

@MyNewtBoobs

Are you seriously saying that over half the people in this country believe that the doctor breaths life into the fetus? I’m not sure that’s really what that polling data says.

@Jaxk No, I’m saying that over half the people in this country believe that abortion isn’t quite so cut and dry. Maybe they feel it’s none of their damn business, maybe they feel that it’s life, but not a person, it doesn’t tell me why. But almost no one in this country has a problem with killing bugs every now and then, and even vegans eat some form of life, so saying “Don’t kill life” isn’t really a strong argument.

@Likeradar

Actually I’m not sure you know what I believe. The assumption that I’m pro-life has some basis but most who know me would consider me pro-choice. Even the Supreme court had a seat on both sides of the issue. If I recall, they said (I’m paraphrasing), 1st trimester OK, 2nd trimester some state control, 3rd trimester only where the mothers life was in jeopardy. Of course this has been bastardized to the point that mild depression could be considered life threatening.

@MyNewtBoobs

Saying it is a cut and dried issue is not even close to my point. Nor am I or we, discussing life in general but rather human life. For some obscure reason we seem to draw a distinction between human life and animal life and even more so with vegetation. Your trying way too hard to make your point.

The question was “Why should men have a say in abortion laws?”

It is quite clear that there are two (maybe more) lives at stake. I find the assumption that only the mother’s life has any value to be quite narrow minded. But that is a far cry from saying abortion should be outlawed.

@incendiary_dan

Surely you’re not suggesting that there are no late term abortions.

@Jaxk Well, you did take a rather long time getting to your point, so forgive me for not knowing what it was before you actually stated it.

Because the baby came from both the woman AND the man.

@incendiary_dan Abortions are not always performed early on. And FYI, I believe a fetus is a human when it develops a heartbeat, and that’s at 4 weeks. Just 1 month. Much earlier than a lot of women abort.

@Jaxk Thank you for posting that link. The pictures are absolutely horrible, but I really think everyone who even speaks the word “abortion” should see those pictures.

@WillWorkForChocolate Not always. Even at 9 weeks, fetal heartbeats can be far from distinct.

@Jaxk I think you completely misunderstood my point. I didn’t even mention what I think your beliefs are. I was arguing against your assertion that people who have a different belief than you “refuse you look at it” your way.

Because it should be the majority of the public (male or female) that gets to vote. As already stated you shouldn’t start to divide votes by simply deciding on only the affective party. Also society as a whole is affected. If abortion is abolished than back room abortions will start again. That may mean someones spouse, mother, sister, daughter (of both mom and dad), niece, or cousin may die in an illegal abortion. So all those people should get a chance to voice thier opinion. All those people who would be affected are male and female.
For all those against, it means that all the same people above may feel the lose of someone they would’ve seen as a blessing in their lives.
And of course their are those who simply think of the bottom line (government support and taxes) or the moral implications for our society.
Everyone deserves to vote on all issues. United we stand, divided we fall.
We can’t partition off votes. We need to at least attempt to be united. We are suppose to be a melting pot of ideas.
Even though I am female, I would think it selfish for me simply to decide what happens to the unborn child. I didn’t get pregnant alone and I think a guy should have a say. If he wants the baby and I don’t then he should be given full rights to the kid. If I want to keep it and he doesn’t than I should have the right to keep it as well.

Because men are responsible for half of the process of making babies. Therefore the baby is half theirs, and half the right of decision belongs to the father. I cannot think of anything more devastating than having a woman deny me a child they consented to the procreation of, without even allowing me a say. It takes two parents to make a baby, and it should take two to reverse the process.

Men have the ultimate decision making ability in this issue. If he is opposed to abortion then don’t have sex with a woman who is not opposed to abortion. This scenario should be discussed before anyone starts undressing and If a man feels he has the right to force a woman to have a child she does not want, that woman should run like hell and they both better find other partners who feel the same way they do.

This is a good question and one that has me torn. On one hand, if any man told me what I should or shouldn’t do with my body when they will never be able to experience what they think I should go through, I would be very pissed off. However, if I fell pregnant I would talk to the man (who helped in the process!) and try to take his feelings/opinion into consideration. As far as laws are concerned, I don’t think they should have much of a say unless they are in certain medical fields where they can talk, with knowledge, about the affects on the body or the baby.

Edit: This really does have me torn because, having read some of the other responses, I agree with those that say we can’t segregate men and women when it comes to who decides on the law. If we start allowing only men or only women to pass certain laws it will soon get out of control.

Basically, I don’t know how I feel here. My head and my heart have different opinions.

@Leanne1986 I’m torn too…..I think that men SHOULD have a say….but if a law gets passed that bans Planned Parenthoods, for instance, then NO ONE has a say, and girls who don’t yet want babies get gross dirty botched abortions in some nasty underground doctors office and get sick and die….I’m sure that’s what people want, right? I know everyone likes to combat this with “MAYBE YOU SHOULDN’T HAVE SEX TIL YOU CAN SUPPORT ANOTHER HUMAN THEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!” to which I would say something like, that is never going to happen, most people aren’t that financially stable until their late 20s at best, and no one is going to wait that long to have sex. So at least leave the option there, you know? And, like you said, if I was sleeping with a man that said “If you get pregnant, I want that baby!” and I didn’t want a baby, I’d tell him he could go to hell, he’s not the one who has to carry it for nine months and give birth.

One of my mom’s friends’ 13 year old daughter got raped by 2 kids AT CHURCH and got pregnant….the mom was against abortion, so the 13 year old had to go through hell and endless amounts of teasing and eventually had the kid, and they had to resort to moving 8 states away to get away from all the torment. So fine, that was her (or rather, her mother’s) choice, but don’t tell me that the father’s say in that is just as important.

Don’t gay men get a vote?

If you consider it in terms of material (nutrients, proteins, etc.) men contribute less than 1% to a baby. Just half the plans, as it were.

@incendiary_dan

Good point. With that logic I assume you would agree that those that don’t pay taxes, should have no say in how those taxes are spent.

@deni That is so sad. No 13 year old should be forced to go through with a pregnancy regardless of whether she was raped or whether consented to sex.

@Jaxk That’s not an analogous comparison, nor was it even my point to say that my statement was reason men have no say in abortions. Your arguments are as disengenuous as they are poorly formed. Learn formal logic please.

P.S. People who pay less in taxes often do get less of a say. The homeless get basically no say, but it could be argued that they are more effected than others by the use of funds.

@Likeradar Nah, I’m just being sexist.

@incendiary_dan It is quite irrelevant where the building materials come from – the father contributes half the DNA, so half of the foetus follows his characteristics. He also contributes half of the decision to form a foetus, or in the event it is not planned, he at least contributes half the act of procreation.

@FireMadeFlesh You said “the father contributes half the DNA, so half of the foetus follows his characteristics.”

Can you explain to me why that gives the father say or not?

@FireMadeFlesh Allow me to tell you that, as a woman, where those building materials come from is not irrelevant. He contributes a wonderful 5 minutes of his life. I contribute 9 months of my life in which someone else basically lives off me as a parasite, draining all of my resources. There are another 9 months of procreating you seem to be “forgetting” about.

@MyNewtBoobs I understand where you are coming from, but surely using the word ”parasite” is going a bit too far…

@queenie It might be a parasite that I love, and care for, and hope for, and will name, and make a nursery for, and dream about it going off to college, but scientifically speaking, yeah, it’s a parasite.

@incendiary_dan A child of your making is your own flesh and blood. So is a foetus that is yet to develop into a child. It doesn’t matter how much substance, the foetus still belongs to the two people that brought it into existence. You can’t downplay the role of a father to 1% substance. Using that logic, by the time a child is 7 it no longer belongs to either parent, since all their original substance has been filtered out and replaced.

@MyNewtBoobs I didn’t forget pregnancy at all. If a man contributes his juices and leaves, then by all means make the decision whether to abort or not without his input. However a responsible partner supports both mother and child through pregnancy, doing everything they can for them. Abortion is an emotional choice, not a physical one, and a responsible father gives emotional energy all through the process. Of course we can’t get into proportions here, since emotions can’t be quantified.

@FireMadeFlesh I think the problem here is that you can’t look at all pregnancies and go “well this is the way it should be, because we’re all hoping for a responsible father”. There are just way too many irresponsible fathers out there for one decision to be the right one, no matter what. Different situations require different decisions.

@MyNewtBoobs True, but I believe in the good of humanity, and I don’t like to see all the good fathers lumped in with the degenerates. I don’t want to see women aborting against the wishes of a good father, considering so many abortions are performed because it would ruin the woman’s figure or some similar bullshit. At a legal level, I think men should have a say but women should have the decision. On a personal level, as you say every case is different. No matter which way we jump, there will be some tragedies and some triumphs.

Parents don’t own children.

@incendiary_dan Of course not. I just took a linguistic shortcut, because I couldn’t think of any other succinct phrasing to convey my meaning.

Who owns them then when they are under 18 and not able to be on their own? You bet I owned them lock stock and barrel until they moved out. If more parents did own their kids maybe there would be fewer running the streets at night and getting into trouble.

@rooeytoo Legally, no, you didn’t.

Yeah I know but when parents did consider themselves the owners of their children, life was a lot simpler for parent and kid!

Because ethical questions should matter to everyone.