Can pummeling a bully land a person in legal trouble?

Vigilante justice is frowned upon in our legal system. Ian is going to need the best lawyer money can buy.

The two boys incited the incident by themselves bullying the other lad.
The boy having been punched once got up from the ground and instead of walking away went back to the lad who had hit him with the intention of landing punches back.
The guy in the wheelchair hadn’t ability to walk away from the scene of even escape the two boys by use of his wheelchair.

The boy did not continue to hit the boy after he fell. Out numbered two to one.
I am guessing that the only case to answer to is this:-

Did he use too much force in protecting himself and the lad in in the wheelchair.

Given the lad did not walk away having been hit once but returned with the intention of inflicting punches back. That he was not hurt the first time and really brought it on himself.

Ian’s physical response was more than the situation warranted. He should have let one of the bullies throw the first punch if it was to escalate to physical violence. I would award damages, but only for the out-of-pocket medical expenses of the injured boy, any more than that would be rewarding the initial bullying which was done by the injured boy.

I understand Ian’s response; however, the more appropriate thing to do would have been to try to get the bullies to stop by going over and talking to them. I do realize that would probably not work. Since it would probably not work, one of the other two would probably have struck the first blow and then he would, IMO, have the right to hit back.

The big question in this for me is… does the bullies physical ‘assault’ (pretending/trying to dump the cousin out of his wheelchair) count as the first actual physical act of violence? If you can get a jury to look at that as the first physical act then Ian’s physical response would have been warranted.

Ian is in trouble. There’s no excuse for the force he used. I suggest anger management as well.

.* Two bullies often taunt and tease him.*

Again, there are mitigating circumstances.
The boy had seen the bullying continued on a long term basis.
Often…suggest this bullying has gone on for some time.
These boys I would assume use to being allowed a free-hand to bully others.

Whilst I abhor violence in any form. Had the boy not been bullying someone less able to defend themselves then he would undoubtedly never have been hurt himself.
A sad affair but I think parents should be responsible for the cost of their sons medical bills.
Because the cost both mentally and physically to the boy in the chair cannot be financially resolved.

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I am not sure the full story ever tells or reveals the true suffering of those who are bullied or abused long term. I have known of several cases where those bullied have taken their own lives. The parent’s didn’t get off so lightly with a broken bone, bruise and a hospital bill.

The damage cannot be seen by way of a black eye, fractured eye socket or a hospital bill.
The damage done mentally to those constantly bullied often ends up in the death of the person being bullied.

It is a lose, lose situation. But I can see no reason to ruin the life of a young person defending someone less able to defend themselves. This time it ended up the bully getting hurt. But there is no voice for the bullied who takes their own life because of the actions of the bully. That suffering is not a moment or a few aches and pains. It is life-long sentence for the parents and family of the child.

I see no way other than the parents to accept the financial costs and ask the court to be lenient on the boy. Stressing they would want mediation between all the boys involved and
for them to attend and meet together to resolve the issues around bullying.
If we make it about punishment and money, rather than about change and understanding.
We will have many such future cases. If it was a child of mine who had been bullying and got hurt. I would have asked the court not to prosecute the child. I would have asked the court to allow them to attend a program to re-educate the boys about bullying and violence.

That however is only my personal view and opinion. I appreciate we will not see eye to eye on everything. But I would be grateful my sons injuries could be healed and thankful for the chance to ensure he became a valued and caring person in the future.

Ian is legally in the wrong and guilty of assault, Ian will have to go to court, but as I seriously doubt there is a jury in the world that will side with people who bully cripples, Ian will probably just have to pay a small token fine. Any lawyer worth his salt should be able to get Ian off the hook.

Hypothetically, my advice would be for Ian to be in front of lots of witnesses all day while some of Ian’s friends give these assholes another good kicking.

Ian could have avoided violence and had a long drawn out legal battle with these people, but people like these bullies you mention don’t tend to learn lessons that way, often, they just need a good kicking.

Violence is not a good thing to advocate.
What happens when those bullies friends single lads out when alone.
Sorry, but I cannot condone that type of behaviour. At least Ian acted on the spur of the moment and not with forethought or malice.

From a practical consideration, there is no indication that Ian’s actions would deter the bullies from acting again against the cousin, possibly in a manner that would result in physical harm for the cousin in the chair. Ian probably should have grabbed the backpack and wheeled his cousin away from the situation. Let the bullies throw the first punch. He over reacted; by the details in the question, this has been going on for awhile, and no actual harm has come to the cousin.

The OP did not say that bully #1 came back for more. They said: “When the 1st bully staggers to his feet in a daze trying to shake the cobwebs from his head Ian gives him about 5 to 7 more punches in combinations of overhands, jabs and upper cuts; the kid goes down again seemingly out cold but he is on the ground twitching.”
This as aggravated assault. Ian should be prosecuted, he went way over the line. The first punch was wrong, punching is not defending it is assault. If he had intervened by shoving the two bullies away from the boy in the chair that would be totally excusable, but punching, and then continuing to punch when they guy was already hurt is assault.
I don’t think that the bully should get any “reward” for his bad behavior, but his family is rightly entitled to have their medical bills paid by the guy responsible for them.

Screw it. You fuck with me or my family I’m going to kick your ass. And, I’m not going to vote to convict Ian if I’m on the jury

I hate bullies. Hate is a strong word, but having gone to school with a bullying bitch who pushed me around all the time, and seeing the teachers do nothing about it until I fought back, I can honestly say that I truly hate bullies.

Bullies who target disabled people are even worse. If my daughter saw someone tormenting a disabled child at her school, I’d be proud to hear that she punched the bully.

I don’t fault him for what he did at all. Adding the extra hits when the kid was already dazed was excessive, but some people (like bullies) never learn a lesson until they get the shit kicked out of them. The girl at my high school sure didn’t. High five Ian.

@Adirondackwannabe What he said. ; )

What @poisonedantidote said :-/

If this made it to court, I’d make certain as a citizen to call the DA’s office and remind him/her that this is a frivolous lawsuit. He/She may want to consider how this looks at election time.

Bullies deserve what they get. If, after picking on someone especially someone handicapped, the shit gets beat out of you, you should grow up and not go running to the police.

We can hate the bullies until the end of time, but that doesn’t change the law. If that bully’s parents want charges pressed then there is plenty of medical evidence to support the charge.
Do I think that the bullies deserved to get their asses kicked? Yes.
Do I think Ian went overboard and became an out of control bully himself? Probably.
If I was on the jury, I would not award pain and suffering damages to the bully, but I would make Ian pay the medical costs for treatment of the bully that he beat up. He caused some serious damage and is probably lucky that the head injury didn’t do any worse damage.
No I’m not sticking up for the bully, but he went too far.
Where is johnpennington when we need him? I’d like his opinion on this.

I’m with @Adirondackwannabe and @WillWorkForChocolate on this one. I’m not an advocate for violence either, but too many individuals refuse to get it in subtler, gentler terms. By looking the other way or cooing about “having a talk” in response to (months? years?) of physical and other types of abuse, the message is continually reinforced that really, it’s okay for these little tools to grow up and become big tools. Seems like as a society we ignore an issue like this until it explodes (school shooting or messy suicide, anyone?), then go mad creating laws to bring it under “control”. Seriously, who wins from that?

If a dog attacks a toddler or a mountain lion takes down a jogger, the animal is usually exterminated— end of story. But oh, don’t bestow a fist to the jaw to some git who thinks two able-bodied kids against one wheelchair-bound one is a fair fight… that’s violence!

Find the middle ground. Less head-in-the-sand crap, less too-little-too-late legislation. We’re supposed to be an intelligent species, after all.

Bully is quite a key word here. Someone who hits someone else, or hits someone in a wheelchair, or picks on someone is NOT a bully, they are just idiots and/or assholes. A bully is not that, a bully, is someone who does that every day over and over again.

The word bully to me implies that this person is behaving like this all day long to loads of different people. Getting your ass kicked for being a bully does not even start to pay off the bad karma.

Getting their asses kicked is the least they could have expected for picking on a cripple. If you did that in my town, you would seriously get an angry mob with ropes and knives camping outside your house.

I’m not an advocate of violence in any way. I’m one of the easy going party. But if you bring it my way, it’s coming back big time. You mess with my loved one’s and I have no limits.

I think the key word in this situation is “choices”. Were there other choices that were accomplished first? Was the school principal notified of the previous bullying. Was school security notified?

I understand the situation here, especially with a handicapped person in a wheelchair. I also see that maybe the other choices were not attempted first, before the assault on the two people bullying him.

If all other attempts to stop the bullying had not been accomplished, then civil liability could be forthcoming.

This is kind of like removing an unwanted person from your residence. Giving the warning to leave your residence first, is much more acceptable, rather than just assaulting this person with no warning.

@Adirondackwannabe That’s what jury nullification is for…

Juries don’t always get it right.

IMO the bullies got what they deserved.