Has anyone else dated a M2F Pre Op Transgenger , and not been told the truth until FAR into a intimate relationship?

ooops….I meant at the top of my answer…...that “I wasn’t given the right to decide whether or not I WOULD DATE a transgender person….....the truth was kept from me, until almost a year into the relationship.

I don’t have any personal experience in this arena.

Over the course of the time you had (have had) the relationship with this person, were you ever in his crib? Nothing there made you scratch your chin?

More importantly, can you reconcile the deceit with what you already knew about him? Can you understand why he would keep you in the dark? Is that part of what attracts you to him?

I got into a flame war with some trans people here on Fluther a while ago over this very question.

Now, I think a person has the right to be whatever they want to be, and nobody has a right to judge someone else’s lifestyle choices. Anything that is peaceful between two (or more) consenting adults is their own business.

OTOH, it was proven to me here on Fluther that bigotry and ignorance and hate flow in both directions. Just as there are straight people who don’t believe in the rights of gay/trans people to be gay/trans, there are gay/trans people who don’t believe that straight people have a right to be straight.

And I know there are different degrees of straight/gay, it’s more of a continuum than all one or the other. Still, I am straight. Call me old fashioned or ignorant or whatever, but I would not want to be romantic with someone who was born a man, and I believe that is as much my right as is someone’s right to be gay or trans. Therefore, I believe that a trans person has an obligation to tell a partner before anything physical occurs.

The transition stopped. There’s no reason to tell you about it. How did you ‘stumble upon’ this information, anyway, if you weren’t told?

If he is still dressing as a woman when alone, I think there is room to doubt whether the transition has actually stopped or just paused. If it was over and he’d decided against it, why hide it? I wouldn’t want to be in a relationship with anyone who hid anything major from me, whether it was this or something else. This is a pretty big aspect of your life to conceal from your romantic partner.

”If it was over and he’d decided against it, why hide it?”

Fear of the exact reaction that he got…?

If his transition had stopped, and he wasn’t going through with it, what’s the issue? That he sometimes wears womens’ clothes?

Trans people hide their trans status because this is exactly the kind of reaction they get if they don’t.

@MacBean That may be true, but fear isn’t an excuse. It may be very hard and the person may not like the reaction they get, but you’d be better getting it upfront before anyone has become deeply emotionally invested in the relationship. I don’t believe anyone would ever get a positive reaction from their partner in an intimate relationship when they have hidden something this important from them. By the point that I’ve become intimate with someone, I feel I can trust them completely and they aren’t hiding anything from me. This would be a betrayal of my trust. The issue wouldn’t even be about their being or having been trans. The issue would be that they didn’t feel I was worthy of their trust or entitled to full disclosure before committing myself to them.

Look at it this way. If someone is going to be bothered by it, they are going to be bothered by it whenever they find out. Knowing you better and falling in love with you probably won’t overcome that and will actually anger them more. If you are open about it on the front end, you don’t have to live in fear of the day your partner finds out. It might make it harder to start a relationship, but at least you don’t go about feeling like you have an anvil hanging over your head and you weed out the people upfront who can’t be accepting of your choices in life.

@diavolobella Thank you for your wildly privileged answer. Forgive me for rolling my eyes and continuing to side with the apparently horrible person who “lied.” Maybe someday when I don’t have to fear being murdered for admitting to such things, I’ll have a little more sympathy for your argument.

@MacBean What you choose to call “wildly privileged” is simply my rational explanation. Sorry you don’t like it, but it’s an opinion that a lot of people are going to share, I’m afraid. No need to attack me because you don’t like that fact. People don’t care much for being mislead, never have since time began and that is not likely to change. I didn’t use the words “lie” or call anyone “horrible”. The OP asked for opinions and I gave mine, so it would be nice if you would save the snark. You are entitled to your opinion and I’m entitled to mine. I don’t believe in hiding things from people I claim to care about. Everyone has the right to enter into a relationship with their eyes open and to not be deceived by someone they trust. If I thought someone was the type of person who might murder me for some part of who I am or who had revealed strong and violently expressed prejudices as I got to know them, I highly doubt they’d be at the top of my potential romantic mate list. I don’t think you need to reveal something that personal to everyone in the world, but to your partner, you do.

@diavolobella You may not have flat-out used the words “lie” or “horrible” but are you seriously saying that wasn’t implied? It doesn’t even matter that the issue is trans* stuff. I definitely got the impression that that was the feeling, no matter what the person was leaving out about their past.

And if you honestly think your answer wasn’t privileged and that my answer was any sort of attack… I don’t even know what to say or how to deal with you. So I won’t.

@MacBean Suits me fine, but I think your missing the point of Fluther if you can’t handle opposing viewpoints or choose to imprint your own feelings on other people’s responses when you know nothing about that person. If you think it’s not a big deal to keep things from your partner, you might want to re-read the original question. It’s pretty clear that the OP was devastated by having it done to them, and if that isn’t a clear enough example why it’s wrong to conceal the truth from someone you purport to love, I don’t know what is.

As for your suggestion that I have some sort of issue with people who are trans – that has no basis in fact and strongly smacks of paranoia. The point of my answer is that it is wrong for anyone in a relationship to conceal something important from their partner – period. Please don’t try to twist my response into some sort of anti-trans issue because of your own fears.

@diavolobella But I didn’t/don’t think you have an issue with transfolk specifically, and I didn’t say that… I even made of a point of saying it didn’t matter that that was the issue, I got the impression you thought the person was a horrible liar no matter what they were hiding. Which your further answer seems to support…

Deleted.

Diavolobella…..........Thank you….....you have hit the nail on the head….........The Main problem was the deceit. I fell in love with someone who hid and lied…...............and trust and honesty is paramount in a relationship. I won’t be with a Liar or a Cheat. it’s that simple. I was devastated that he didn’t give me the chance to ‘make my own decision’ on the matter.
and the points you bring up, MacBean….....show me that you don’t feel I should have been told from early on in the relationship. I find that appalling.
I fell deeply in love with my Ex….....and we were intimate from the very beginning…....I would have NEVER guessed he was transgender…NEVER !.....................he evidently (looking back on it all) is very focused on showing the world how Macho he is…..Harley , Guns, Camo clothing, hats, everything including a camo 4 wheeler…...I assume it was a desperate attempt to cover his need & wishes to be a woman dressed in frilly dresses & heels.

so…MacBean, ..does your response mean that I should not worry about the deceit & lies…............that as long as my Ex was happy in hiding his transgender life from me…....??????
I have a hard time understanding your point…..............

@CatOnAHotTinRoof First of all, you seem to be treating “pre-op MTF” and “transvestite/cross-dresser” as the same thing. They’re not. At all. Just so you know. Women’s clothing does not a woman make. Most cross-dressers are straight cisgender men.

Anyway. At one time he was doing HRT. He stopped. Therefore, it has nothing to do with anyone he dates now. If he doesn’t feel like telling, that’s his right. Getting upset about not being told is, to my mind, like getting angry for not being told that he had his tonsils out when he was ten years old. It happened before you knew him and has no effect on you. It’s not important. A little “Hey, honey, sometimes I like to put on a skirt and heels” would’ve been nice, I’ll grant you that, but I don’t feel it’s in any way necessary.

Not to mention, if the whole relationship only lasted about six months, I feel you were told early on. He may even have told you in his own time but you didn’t give him a chance before you discovered his supposed secret and confronted him about it. I’d still like to know how you “stumbled upon” the information.

And I’d also like to know why you abuse capitalization and punctuation marks. What did they ever do to you? The poor things.

@diavolobella & @HungryGuy & @CatOnAHotTinRoof

I’ve seen this type of reaction from trans people on other sites besides Fluther. And I found that question where all the trans people ganged up on HungryGuy. I wonder why trans people are so intolerant and angry at the world.

@MacBean…............Has no effect on me ????????? Are you nuts??? He was deceitful…......He says he would finish the transition if he ever gets enough money…........so ‘it wasn’t OVER’ .................
It’s the same as LYING to not be honest with a partner that you are talking about forever with….........period.

@answerbagger….............I wonder the same thing. .....

@CatOnAHotTinRoof Everything you said before this reply indicated that he had stopped transitioning. Which would, indeed, mean that it had nothing to do with you. But the new information changes things—slightly. He should have told you about it eventually, but six months into a relationship, people are usually still trying to exhibit their best behavior and be perfect for the other person. You found out about it and confronted him before he reached a comfort level that allowed him to talk about it. He may very well have done so in his own time.

And why are you avoiding answering my question? How did you “stumble upon” the information? I also wonder exactly how you confronted him about it.
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@Answerbagger “I wonder why trans people are so intolerant and angry at the world.” I can only speak for myself and those that I know personally, but what we’re intolerant of is other people’s intolerance of us, and when we’re angry it’s because not only individuals but society as a whole looks down on us, abuses us, and treats us as less than human.

Also? It’s really frustrating when, in cases like this one, people who have no idea what it feels like to be on this side of the situation don’t take advantage of the experiences of those of us who do. Very little delights me more than when someone takes a moment to ask, “Can you help me try to understand why this person might have thought/acted the way they did?” Really, I think you’ll find most transfolk are more than happy to answer questions and help people understand. That’s another thing that often makes us defensive and angry: when people cling to their ignorance of the subject.

@answerbagger….........................I give up !!! It’s all about the Transfolk, isn’t it ???!!! .....................Matters not ONE BIT that I was deceived and lied to….and led down a path that was all created with untruths…................and who can trust someone after lies and deceit are uncovered???????????? NO ONE…..that’s who!!!!!!!??? I was never prejudiced before…...but now I feel an immense displeasure with the feedback I have received…..............Transfolk..=...selfishness , and total abandon for another’s feelings…... is what I have learned after this relationship, and believe me, I want nothing more to do with it !!
utter and complete arrogance and selfishness is my defintion of my Ex…........

@CatOnAHotTinRoof You are obviously a deeply caring and understanding person. I can’t imagine why anyone would ever hide anything from you. Completely baffling.

@Answerbagger – I can’t imagine why either. As I said above (and in that other thread you noticed) I’m one of the most tolerant people you can cross tracks with who believes in the rights of people to be what they are. And yet, I was viciously accused of intolerance and hate for no other reason than because I said I would not want to have intimate relations with someone who was born male (my preference should be as much my right as anyone else’s to choose a sex partner for any arbitrary reason), even though I fully believe in equal rights for all and the rights of anyone to be whatever they are. So certain trans people’s accusations of intolerance by others is pure bullshit.

@CatOnAHotTinRoof – Don’t let him sucker you into a flame war to feed his hate and intolerance.

@HungryGuy You can’t hold the belief that transfolk who have gone through their transitions should be obligated to reveal their sex at birth and still call yourself tolerant and accepting. You just can’t. I’m sorry. It’s like saying “I’m not homophobic, I just hate gay people.” (Which is something someone honestly said to me once. It still blows my mind.)

@MacBean….....If you had listened to what I was saying…............He presented himself as Macho, ALL MAN, Harley rider, gun toting , camo wearing MAN….........never a hint of being Transgender or wanting to be a woman…............he never transitioned completely….......it is a lifelong thing for him…...he feels he is a woman in a man’s body…........but if he ever gets the $$$$, he would transition completely to a woman…........and just where would that have left me in that mix, 5 years or so down the road ???

@MacBean,....sorry I thought I’d already answered “how’ I found out….........I saw a female Facebook page ( with the same last name) that was ‘friends’ with all His family & friends, but not a ‘friend’ on His Facebook….so I asked who it was ( thinking maybe an ex wife or something like that).......after a few minutes of him denying it, he confessed & we talked about it for hours & hours & hours….......all his family knew & all his friends….....but me. He said he couldn’t decide whether to tell me or not, and that he knew it would come up in some way ‘some time’..................apologised profusely, cried, begged forgiveness for not being forthright. You see, very early in the relationship, I told him I was the type person that could NOT deal with lies….small or large…..............I am the type of person that can handle anything , as long as it’s the truth !!!!

@HungryGuy Thank you so much for seeing my sentiments as being ’ real’ ........you have given me new faith in human beings…........::: Curtsey::::

@diavolobella….....Thank you, as well, for your kind words and explanation. I may not be very good at writing my feelings down properly, but you seem to understand perfectly !!

@MacBean

Pls don’t hate me or call me ignorant. But I think you’re over reacting. Nobody here is ignorant or hates trans people. Its stupid to call people ignorant or hateful and make enemies because they disagree over the detail of when is the best time to tell someone your secret. Everyone here would be on your side and even be your friend if you would just lose the anger and paranoia.