Feeding Kids better in school, which way? (see details)

They should not offer school lunches. Instead kids should pack a lunch. I always did. That way the parents can’t complain to the school. It doesnt take long to pack a lunch.

I think salads and more fresh vegetable should be available at schools. What is typically served in the average school system is process high fat and calorie crap. They did a study that showed that it costs no more to serve fresh veggies and salads and making meats that aren’t all processed foods can be done for the same costs as what serve currently which is contributing to the obesity epidemic in the US. Pretty sad we are training our kids to eat this stuff.

I have two school aged kids, and here’s what I have observed.

Those healthful alternatives generally wind up going to waste because more often than not the kids won’t eat them. Even if you don’t offer anything but (your perception of) healthy alternatives, many kids will choose to go hungry rather than eating the “healthy” stuff.

I’m not saying that more healthy alternatives should not be made available. However, the “crap” they actually will eat for the most part is usually not as bad as many like to think, and at least it’s not wasted.

This brings to mind the great “is ketchup a vegetable” controversy. The whole reason for that fracas was because according to guidelines each meal had to include some veggie servings. So, the lunch rooms would put a handful of fries with the burger along with a nice little leaf of lettuce and a tomato. Almost all of those little salads would go directly in the trash, which IMHO was a terrible waste. Calling Ketchup a vegetable allowed the school lunch rooms to meet the guidelines without putting stuff on the plate that would almost always go directly in the trash, thus reducing waste. Further, those kids are getting as much tomato in their ketchup as they would have gotten if they actually ate the tomato slice that was previously put on their plate.

Bottom line: You can lead a a horse to water (or a kid to a salad bar) but you can’t make him drink (eat).

@Mikewlf337 – In some households there isn’t anything to pack. There are children whose only meals are what they get in school. No, I don’t know percentages, but I can tell you that I’ve worked in two schools where it’s true.

I think that educating the staff on how to make these things palatable to kids is a start. And involving the kids in the taste testing would help as well. Offering, of course, only healthy things for them to choose from.

My suggestion is to try to offer something healthier 2 days a week. Ease into it. When I was little, Friday was pizza day and we all looked forward to it. I see nothing wrong with that. This way kids can try new healthier foods a little bit at a time. The most important thing is the children are not hungry.

The truth is most children eat about 80 meals a month at home, and only 20 at school. Home is the bigger problem.

@creative1 We had tacos and hamburgers and tater tots and pizza when I was in school, and we were not fat, and most of my friends still aren’t.

@tedibear How can there not be food to eat in a home? They have to eat don’t they? Schools have other things to worry about then to focus that much attention to their lunch programs. School lunches are cheap and the “cooks” that fix those lunches are not talented. All they do is pre-heat everything. That is why everything is processed. It is already cooked. You how much food has to be bought for schools with a large student population? We didn’t have much money growing up and we managed to pack a lunch everyday from K-12. It isn’t difficult. If a kid’s only meal is a school lunch then I think that kids family has more problems then a school lunch. It is no problem to pack a lunch.

@Mikewlf337 There are plenty of people who can’t afford food. Ever heard of food banks where people who can’t afford food go to get things that people donate for them to eat? Soup kitchens? Your naivete is absurd.

There are free lunch programs where kids eat for free what might be the most food they see all day. There are summer feeding programs run through school systems where kids are fed every weekday during the summer because there isn’t likely any food at home.

It is, indeed, difficult. It is indeed a problem to pack a lunch. Learn a little about the world we live in. And then go make a donation of time, money, or goods to your local soup kitchen.

@Mikewlf337 Have you never heard of poverty?

@JLeslie Lets see if there is a free lunch program with higher quality food. There won’t be. It will be too expensive for the school and the state. Like I said. If a family can’t afford food then the quality of a school lunch is the least of their problems. If a school lunch is more expensive because people are upset about the quality of the lunch then they have themselves to blame when school do away with the free lunch program.

Not everything that comes into a school is already cooked. And a lot of school nutrition directors do the best they can with what they can afford on their budget which isn’t large at all. Some do better than others, but the fact remains that kids will eat what they like and won’t eat what they don’t. I distinctly recall loads of some kind of green veggie that I still don’t think I can identify being thrown away when I was in school. Nobody ate it. The more popular veggie was broccoli in a cheese sauce. Its really, really hard to balance what will be eaten (what won’t is a waste of money which there is precious little of) and what is nutritionally sound.

Even when lunches are packed from home, they’re likely as full of crap as the stuff that’s being served that the kids actually eat.

@Mikewlf337 Uh, I am not pushing for much healthier meals at the schools.

You might be interested in this Q about school lunches I asked a long time ago.

@Mikewlf337 There are free lunch programs with nutritionally sound food. Not high quality, but nutritionally sound. And when it comes down to it, food is better than no food. Are you really so far out of touch with reality that you can’t admit that there are people out there who go hungry every day? That there are households where there is no food to pack?

Willful ignorance is inexcusable.

@klutzaroo I am not willfully ignorant despite the fact that you think I am. What do you all want on the school lunch menu? Fine cuisine for $2? Spare me the crap. You get what you pay for and cheap school lunches are no exception. BTW people at poverty level do not bitch that the school serves their children chicken nuggets and nachos. People who are better off do the bitching so schools will change and usually making things worse for those at poverty level. You think unprocessed foods and healthier foods come cheap. If schools are forced to do that, they will get rid of the free lunch program because they won’t have the funding for it. Maybe you klutzaroo are the one who is willfully ignorant.

I grew up with free school dinners (in England). This eased the financial pressure on my mother such that she could afford to eat herself, something she didn’t do before we got on the programme. As far as I can remember, the quality was adequate and the nutrition was good – it was generally meat and two veg, followed by pudding and custard. Having a mother that stopped wasting away was certainly a great advantage to all of us kids.

I agree with @JLeslie‘s idea of starting slow. Children will pick and eat what they like. When I was in school, if they weren’t having something I didn’t like, I kept my lunch money and didn’t eat or I just got a milk and ice cream. We had a salad bar, but I didn’t always want salads on the days I didn’t like the other food. Having healthier options is great, but it still needs to be things children will actually eat.

@Mikewlf337 There are better choices that can be made for the money than are being made. When you buy in bulk, things become less expensive. Why do you think warehouse stores are so popular? You can spend your dollar on chicken nuggets or on something else that is the same price and is not a chicken nugget. Its not cheap or easy to serve high quality food. Which is why people are looking to improve the quality of the food in a way that is affordable and practical. Not to serve gourmet cuisine to schoolchildren. Fruits and vegetables, in a form that kids will eat, are a better decision for the dollar than are being made. That is only one example. The only crap here is yours.

Your ideas about the free lunch program, and the funding for it, betray the fact that you know nothing and wish to learn nothing about it.

People on the poverty level are not ignorant of the fact that there oftentimes aren’t good decisions being made about school food. Do you think that everyone that’s poor is also stupid? Do you think that they don’t want their children to be healthy? Parents who are poor get more information given to them on nutrition than any other parents in this country. Do you seriously believe that they don’t have anything to say about the food being served?

Okay, can we get back to the original question of suggestions on how to do this? My apologies @christine215 for my comment to @Mikewlf337 getting this off track.

Wow…. anyone see what Jamie Oliver has been trying to do? He praises one school district in Wisconsin I think it is, who has a healthy program for kids lunches. He’s currently trying to do something in the LA area and he’s finding the whole situation even more dodgy than he suspected.

Have a look at what Jamie Oliver did in England and see if you can watch the TV show they made about it. It was very hard going, but I think he made some great permanent changes.

@klutzaroo I think the only one who has a problem is you. You didn’t like what i said about packing a lunch so you called me willfully ignorant. Do you call everyone you disagree with ignorant? When it comes to a free school lunch you don’t have many options. If you have an idea voice it instead of crying about it. Give some examples. I doubt you have any unless you are a dietician. I knew people at poverty level growing up and they had food to pack. If a family doesn’t have enough food to pack a PB&J sandwich for lunch then how does a family eat. If a kids only meal is his/her free lunch from school then what does the kid do for breakfast, dinner, and lunch on days when school is out? Do they starve?

I think an overhaul is necessary. The stuff you described sounds very un-healthy. You should make the proposal first. But before (and during this process) you need to do a lot of research about other programs that are working at other schools, find suppliers that can make and deliver food at a comparable cost while still being nutritious, and figure out whether the kitchen needs to have any kinds of modifications to accomodate a new menu) If the school nutrition director is not in favor of any change, then you may have to get the principal and the PTA involved in persuading this person.

If, you are successful in persuading people that there needs to be a change and you have done all the research, the next step would be to have sample menus made and let the kids have taste tests to determine what they like and what they don’t like. Even if you switch to healthier foods, if the kids won’t eat the stuff, then you will just be wasting food.

You should also have some type of nutriton campagin at the school to get kids motivated, interested and educated about why making good nutrition decisions will benefit them their whole lives. This should also involve education about the whole food chain, where it comes from, how it’s produced, the labor involved the “green” techniques used to make and serve the food, and how to reduce waste. If you just put a new menu in place and the kids have no idea what the reason is, or have no idea why what they do has any impact on the world, then it’s just kids saying yum or icky. When you involve kids in the process, they become more interested and knowledgeable.

You might try contacting Jamie Oliver. He’s the television chef that is promoting healthy changes in school lunches all over the country. You can read a bit about how he’s doing that (and how other schools are changing their systems) here. Here’s more about Jamie Oliver’s approach

@Kardamom SNAP! (again!)

@Mikewlf337 Yes. They starve. Or they try and tap the few and far between resources out there for people who are starving, like the food banks and soup kitchens. On days where school isn’t in (unless there’s something like the summer feeding program), they may eat little to nothing. Comments like “How can there not be food to eat in a home? They have to eat don’t they?” show that you are clueless as to what goes on in the world. Not because these things aren’t out there for you to see, but because you choose not to and declare that everyone has food at home that they can pack for a lunch. This is very much not the case, yet you object when you’re called on what you are and what you say? Absurd. Any other questions about things you are indeed willfully ignorant about?

@klutzaroo Ever heard of food stamps? Some parents who are at poverty level get food stamps to get food. If they don’t have food then how do parents eat? You calling me willfully ignorant is hypocritical.

@Mikewlf337 Ever heard of people not qualifying for food stamps? I have. Ever heard of people in the poverty level that make as little as 2 cents over the income requirement who still cannot afford to feed their families who aren’t able to access any government welfare or assistance programs? I have. Ever looked around you and seen that there are needs not being met? I have. And I’m far from the only one. There is nothing whatsoever hypocritical about calling a spade a spade. If you choose to be ignorant to the fact that there are people who fall through the cracks, who should but don’t qualify for assistance, that right this very second that there are starving children in this country, you deserve to be called on it.

All arguments aside, there are those in this great country of ours who go hungry, plain and simple. Thankfully there are many like-minded individuals here who understand that fact and are willing to offer real suggestions.

There are kids in our district who rely on the meals that they’re getting at school… those are the ones who get their meals subsidized by fed and state funding… they are the ones who I am the most concerned with. No, their parents either don’t have the money or they are living in a situation where the parent(s) just don’t know better or don’t care… they’re going home and either not having dinner or eating even less healthy food because it’s cheap and that’s what they can afford. And sadly as studies have shown, people who are hovering around that poverty line are less educated about proper nutrition, so they’re the ones who are more likely to see a happy meal as a good alternative to feed their kid because it’s cheap, instead of spending that money on bulk brown rice, legumes and some inexpensive greens to eat for a week…

Many schools in our area actually make a profit off lunch, (our district included) which is why I think that our district should be doing better for the kids whose parents can’t afford to pack them, the kids who rely on what they’re being served at school for a ‘decent meal’

Ultimately, we’re working on a three fold approach to the situation and trying very hard to get the district on board

Nutritional education at every grade… not just the “eat a rainbow” feel-good stuff they tell the kids, but tell them exactly WHY eating fast food, copious amounts of fat, salt, sugar is bad for you and what it does to the body

Physical Fitness and increased activity – give elementary school and middle school kids a longer lunch period so that you can give them at least 15 minutes of activity BEFORE lunch

Nutrition in the schools – serve less processed and more whole foods, get rid of anything with HFCS and do better than the “standards” for food set by the US Govt (which are pitiful) instead of doritos, sell whole fruits and veggie snacks and healthy options for ala carte items instead of Doritos, donuts and potato chips!

I have an opportunity here to possibly make things better for ALL the kids in our district so any input here is greatly appreciated!

I remember school lunches to be pretty bland and not very appitzing but there were friuts and vegetables as well as some sort of chicken or beef, What could a person ask for spending a whopping $2 on a lunch. Schools have had to make budget cuts and and lay off teachers to avoid being closed down. I think it is pretty bad that schools have to spend thousands more to appease those who complain about it.

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@Kardamom

I’ve got a brother in law that works for a food service company that has a contract with a nearby school district, and yes we’ve been doing cost-analysis on what the disclosed budget was from last school year and what we could be doing with the same money, the problem is that they anticipate a decline in profit if/when we switch to the healthier options. With the budget situation in our district, it’s very hard to convince them to agree to something that they know will cut into a profit substantially for at least two to three years, (studies have shown that the profitability comes back, it’s the high school kids that are ingrained in the ‘bad’ food culture that you wait till they graduate and the younger kids who have had more exposure to the good food culture and nutritional education will be more willing to accept the better options)

I have lots of support and my organization managed to get on the local news, with one of our meetings, which was great publicity for us and increased our numbers, we’ve been able to show the school board that we’re not just a hand full of fanatic moms who are trying to upset the apple cart, but a very large part of their constituency who believe that we should be doing better and we’re willing to volunteer to work toward that goal.
We’ve established nutrition counsels in the elementary schools and have polled the kids on what they want to eat. Surprisingly, not everything the kids want is what you would put into the ‘crap’ list. We’ve managed to make small changes with no fanfare, like whole grain bread/rolls and getting rid of funnel cake for breakfast (no I’m not even kidding about that) those are baby steps and we have miles to go

One of my ‘partners’ in another district invited Chef Ann Cooper to come and speak and our district people came and heard her presentation, she offers tools which the districts can use online for free, including links to vendors, and cost analysis and budget information

The biggest obstacle that I’m looking at is to have truly whole food in our district we’d need to get more equipment for cooking as well as more staff to make the food. I don’t know that I can get the district to agree to that, especially right now with the budget cuts that our district has experienced

I think that cutting corners on our school lunches costs more money than it could ever possibly save. We need to drastically change what we subsidize. Our children deserve proper food, not highly processed crap, even if it costs and arm and a leg.
‘Poisonous, keep out of reach of children.’

@christine215 Could you try to find ways to start with what the schools already have? That way they don’t have to get new equipment or hire more people?

@christine215 Have you talked with any of the cooking schools or colleges that prepare people for careers in the food service industry (chefs, hotel management etc) to see if there is any way that you could combine some of this stuff. Maybe the schools could lend/lease the needed equipment, and they could supply the labor needed (their students) who would then get credit for working within the school system. Maybe the companies that manufacture the equipment could help by donating equipment and then they get a plaque on the school and publicity (something like that, that would benefit them for helping you) And the local farms should be brought into the mix too. And maybe the school could put on some type of a fund-raiser like a play or a carnival or a crafts fair (especially if there was a theme related to your healthy food project) Maybe you could approach some of the local businesses to help you with that kind of a venture. This is an exciting and potentially wonderful new direction that you could be taking your school. I applaud you for your efforts.

[mod says] This is our Question of the Day!

We have some pretty healthy stuff in our cafeteria, along with our fair share of unhealthy foods. We have wraps with coldcuts & taco wraps, salads, pasta, soup (chicken noodle and vegetable).

Excellent suggestions for the equipment, we’ve batted around the idea for a fundraiser, I’d have to check into the feasibility of using interns from colleges/schools in the area. Most working through their apprenticeship do get paid, but if we can use them instead of hiring ‘permanent’ positions where the school would have to pay benefits, then the cost impact would be less.

the district has already “fired” a local farm who supplied milk (the local farm incidentally uses no rgbh, and don’t use milk from cows who’ve had to be treated with antibiotics for a certain amount of time until they are sure that the antibiotic has cleared through the system of teh animal) they have instead chose a national brand which cannot make such promises, because the National brand is cheaper and they get milk for lactose intolerant kids through the national brand.

I’m a volunteer at a farmers market and have some good contacts with local family owned farms, whose produce I would love to incorporate into the district meals… not sure how to get that done, eating seasonally doesn’t always mesh with federal guidelines about what has to be served
(strawberry kiwi juice as a fruit/veg serving does though??)