Can you watch this video, then read this response I found to it, and tell me what you think?

I think that person is narrow minded and refuses to accept that his/her government may not be perfect. Thats all really.

It seems awfully disrespectful to our men and women in uniform to disregard what they tell us about their experiences at war. Why doesn’t your friend respect our troops?

See? Knee-jerk reactionary rhetoric goes both ways!

I don’t think I would want to engage with someone so narrow-minded. The veteran’s remarks were heartfelt and well thought out.

I don’t think you can blame the soldiers on the ground too much (obviously there were some that behaved despicably but we shouldn’t blame an entire group, any group, for the actions of a few individuals). Being a soldier, being in the military involves following orders. No one on the ground is ever told the whole story, they have to fight believing that the people who have ordered them there, know what they are doing. The real villains are the politicians who began this war, lying both to the voters and to the soldiers as to what the threat was and why we/they were going there. Questioning the actions of a politician or a government is not treachery (unless your government is a totalitarian dictatorship in which case you have no civil liberties to take for granted).

@SavoirFaire You are correct, I guess that’s why it’s called “knee-jerk” lol. :(

Well, our nation is not united in its patriotism and ideals. It never has been. If your friend wants to live in a society that pretends everybody is on the same patriotic page he can check out fascism.

Wow. That is one powerful and thought provoking speech. I would probably be compelled to reply to that ridiculous comment, but I’m sure it would do no good. People who have that “don’t question America” mindset are extremely unlikely to rethink their position.

PS: I posted the video to my own Facebook page, giving you the credit @Blackberry. Hope you don’t mind. :)

The speaker is completely correct and is a real war hero. The only reason that you would vilify him is because his truth hits too close to your values and your political philosophy.

For too long Americans wouldn’t tell the truth to the young men and women that they were fighting for military contractors and oil company profits. The main reason our youth join the military is because civilian employment and schooling is sparse and reserved for the upper classes. The choice is to become a hamburger flipper or paid mercenary. That’s America today. Even now, the right is looking for other brown people to blow up. Iran is becoming a real possibility. The only real industry we have left is the military and weapons manufacturer.

Following up on @augustlan‘s mention of the “don’t question America” mindset, wasn’t America basically founded on the notion of questioning the government? Imagine if Thomas Jefferson had been convinced by pseudo-arguments like “don’t question the Crown.”

@SavoirFaire I know what you mean, but this is also a different time lol. For example, modern family members don’t make every move to appease their dead relatives, so why would our leaders do the same after hundreds of years.

The Universal Soldier by Buffy St. Marie

He’s 5 foot 2 and he’s 6 feet 4
And he fights with missiles and with spears
He’s all of 31 and he’s only 17.
And he’s been a soldier for a thousand years

He’s a catholic, a Hindu, an atheist, a Jane
A boarders, a Baptist and Jew.
And he knows he shouldn’t ‘ve killed
And he knows he always will kill
You’ll for me my freind and me for you

He’s fighting for Canada.
He’s fighting for France.
He’s fighting for the USA.
And he’s fighting for the Russians.
And he’s fighting for Japan
And he thinks we’ll brought an end to war this way.

He’s fighting for democracy,
He’s fighting for the reds
He says it’s for the peace of all.
He’s the one, who must decide,
who’s to live and who’s to die.
And he never sees the writing on the walls.

But without him,
how would Hitler have condemned him at Dachau?
Without him Caesar would have stood alone
He’s the one who gives is body
as a weapon to the war.
And without him all this killing can’t go on

He’s the universal soldier
And he really is the blame
But his orders comes from
far away no more.

They come from him.
And you and me.
Oh, brothers can’t you see.
This is not the way we put an end to war

Eugene Debs was an American socialist in the late 1800s and early 1900s. He gave rousing speeches across the U.S. and was eventually arrested for treason for speeches like the following and thrown in prison. Here is his speech given in Canton, Ohio in 1918 of which the following is only a small part:

Wars throughout history have been waged for conquest and plunder. In the Middle Ages Wars throughout history have been waged for conquest and plunder. In the Middle Ages when the feudal lords who inhabited the castles whose towers may still be seen along the Rhine concluded to enlarge their domains, to increase their power, their prestige and their wealth they declared war upon one another. But they themselves did not go to war any more than the modern feudal lords, the barons of Wall Street go to war. The feudal barons of the Middle Ages, the economic predecessors of the capitalists of our day, declared all wars. And their miserable serfs fought all the battles. The poor, ignorant serfs had been taught to revere their masters; to believe that when their masters declared war upon one another, it was their patriotic duty to fall upon one another and to cut one another’s throats for the profit and glory of the lords and barons who held them in contempt. And that is war in a nutshell. The master class has always declared the wars; the subject class has always fought the battles. The master class has had all to gain and nothing to lose, while the subject class has had nothing to gain and all to lose—especially their lives.

They have always taught and trained you to believe it to be your patriotic duty to go to war and to have yourselves slaughtered at their command. But in all the history of the world you, the people, have never had a voice in declaring war, and strange as it certainly appears, no war by any nation in any age has ever been declared by the people.

And here let me emphasize the fact—and it cannot be repeated too often—that the working class who fight all the battles, the working class who make the supreme sacrifices, the working class who freely shed their blood and furnish the corpses, have never yet had a voice in either declaring war or making peace. It is the ruling class that invariably does both. They alone declare war and they alone make peace.

Yours not to reason why;
Yours but to do and die.

That is their motto and we object on the part of the awakening workers of this nation.

If war is right let it be declared by the people. You who have your lives to lose, you certainly above all others have the right to decide the momentous issue of war or peace.

The militaristic mindset is prevalent here in Canada too. There has been a backlash against having our troops in Afghanistan and our Federal Government pledged to bring the troops home. Signs crept across the nation declaring: SUPPORT OUR TROOPS! This is a mind-bending concept to me. In my mind I am supporting our troops by wanting them home. There not likely to die if they are here. They’ll still be employed if they are here.

Unquestioning patriotism is dangerous.

@Blackberry Ah, but genuflecting to our Founders is a basic ritual of politics—especially among the “don’t question America” crowd.

In fact, it is very common for political society to move more slowly than civil society. That politicians still practice ancestor worship is a bit worrying, though.

@SavoirFaire Indeed. I don’t know how many times I’ve heard the phrase, “Our founding fathers would…” or something along those lines.

@Blackberry I would probably post a retort to his post. I know that you shouldn’t feed trolls but sometimes it is important to be the voice of reason. Then I would take the high road.

It does feel wrong to just let his post sit there, unchallenged. I like @tranquilsea‘s idea… counter his post, calmly and with intelligence, then walk away.

Thank you for posting the video (I watched the full version as well, along with others from that event). I really would not know what to say to your friend because what he said just ..ugh ..it just ticks me off. It would certainly be something I’d need to think on before replying. But, I do know that I would reply with something.

Like @augustlan said, it feels wrong to have it go unchallenged and needs to be replied to with calmness and intelligence.

Again, thank you for the video. Very powerful.

There is no possible rational rebuttal @tranquilsea ‘s post. It reminds me of the 60’s “what if we held a war and nobody came?” The new rational for staying in Iraq and Afghanistan is “how can we tell our soldiers that they sacrificed and died for nothing?” I’m from the Vietnam war and was very disappointed to find that mine and my fellow military sacrificed and died for nothing, absolutely nothing. My biggest disappointment is that the perpetrators of that war suffered no consequences. Henry Kissinger, for instance, is still walking around free, even advising governments.

We not only need to pull out of the middle-east occupations (the wars are long over), we need to severely punish the perpetrators. I am against the death penalty but life in a maximum security prison and the loss of all worldly goods is sufficient punishment.