Why doesn't the Catholic church endorse more effective birth control in poor places?

Recently the pope made a statement about condom use with respect to the spread of HIV, but I don’t know whether reducing birth rates is anywhere on the church’s agenda.

Why doesn’t the catholic church do a lot of things, like revealing how they covered up and protected child molesters lol? You’re asking why a church won’t do things that make sense, good luck finding an answer.

@Seelix Oh, how nice of him, after all this time lol. We should be so grateful.

The last Pope stood in Mexico City, a place where thousands of children scavenge in landfills to survive, and said that birth control is a sin. That moment cemented my disdain and disgust for the Catholic church.

How can they be selective about the issue of birth control? The church either approves of birth control or it does not. That would include the Philippines or Sweden etc.

Because every sperm is sacred.

@josie And since they can’t be selective, they would act against birth control even if it leads to suffering children?

Has anyone here ever seen actual kids digging food from trash?

IMHO, it’s because the Catholic church wants to promote the poverty cycle so that the throngs of poor folks will continue to flock to the church as the only small glimmer of hope in their otherwise desolate lives.

OK, the real answer, in my cynical view, is this:
Birth control results in the loss of future potential Catholics. The more children born to Catholics, the more Catholics. The more Catholics, the greater numbers in the pews. The greater numbers in the pews, the more money in the collection plates. The more money in the collection plates, the more power and influence the church wields.

Here’s some interesting debate on the issue.

It gives a full list of reasons why Catholics support this policy. I personally feel the logic is very twisted.

The Catholic church is against birth control. As far as I know they are the only denomination to take such a strong stand against it. No matter what type of control it is. As I said before. This is a rule for Catholics. Catholic rules do not always apply to other denomination. Different denominations different rules. Ever notice how some Catholic families have 5 or more kids? You know what? Many Catholics still use birth control. Also as far as I know most of these rules are only for the Catholic community. The main thing the Catholic church does try to fight outside of the church is abortion as far as birth control is concerned.

@YoBob @GladysMensch If that is the answer then the leaders of the Catholic church are utterly despicable. Not all catholics I’m sure agree with their church’s stand on birth control but those who do, they have to see the kind of suffering kids in poverty areas are enduring. 5 kids sharing one small can of sardines. Soy sauce with small amouts of rice. Picking thrown away foods outside burger joints. Ah, it’s madness!

Their main way of gaining new members is by making their existing members breed and indoctrinate.

Quite simply, birth control is not in their interest.

EDIT: Additionally, authority tends to like it when it’s subjects are not too well off financially or intelectually.

I was born and raised catholic, as soon as i was old enough to think for myself and understand the topic in question, I disowned my faith.

@mazingerz88 I have not, because when I travel, I don’t tend to visit landfills. Are you saying that you don’t believe that that level of poverty and desperation exists?

edit: Actually, I have seen plenty of dumpster diving here in the old U. S. of A, including folks holding their kids by the ankles, dangling them headfirst into the dumpster to retrieve items. But other than that, again, no, because I don’t hang out at the landfill.

@syz No. I asked the question hoping someone who answers would somehow have a more accurate well observed perspective.

Their reason for opposing birth control, I believe comes from this story in Genisis 38:
 8 Then Judah said to Onan, “Sleep with your brother’s wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to raise up offspring for your brother.” 9 But Onan knew that the child would not be his; so whenever he slept with his brother’s wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from providing offspring for his brother. 10 What he did was wicked in the LORD’s sight; so the LORD put him to death also.

@mazingerz88 I quite agree that it is despicable, which is one of the many reasons (IMHO) that there are so many former Catholics around (my wife included).

FWIW, belief in God != belief in a particular church.

LOL. Because they refuse logic.

@Judi That sounds so insignificant compared to kids’ sufferings out there, right now. But thanks.

Their opposition to birth control (and masturbation) is rooted in the ancient false belief that sperm contained complete, fully formed humans and that the woman is only an incubator (another reason for their social status). As such, every waste of semen is thus akin to a small murder (not punished as severely).
That and religion thrives on poverty. That is where they gain the most new members. What better way to recruit new victims than in a poor slum by promising them heaven and false hope?

@ragingloli I am reading this great book called Sperm Counts – I lost it last week and can’t find it now, as I’m looking, but I think it is by Lisa Jean Moore, great read.

I think that you are confused. The Catholic church does not support any type of birth control except the rhythm method.

@marinelife I also might be guilty in killing trillions upon trillions of small human beings since high school.

@jasper1890 Congratulations!

The church is ok with the rhythm method. Better than nothing.

I recently asked a Catholic friend of mine, if the church is ok with preventing a pregnancy, then why does it matter what method? She told me at one time one of her preists said the greatest gift you can give a child is siblings, above money, material things, education, etc.

But, there definitely is a push to keep producing Catholics. All religions are like this to some extent. Of all the examples above, the saddest is Haiti, which I do not think anyone mentioned. The poverty is unbelievable and it is very Catholic there. There are organizations there trying to educate about birth control.

Stephen Fry on the subject.

@everephebe ABSOLUTLY BRILLIANT! thanks for the link!

@everephebe Yeah, that was pretty suhweeet.

I was always told that life and death is Gods domain. Not the church and definetly not its people. It would be hypocritical for the church to say, we think all life is sacred but we should stop some if we can avoid it. To kill or stop a child from being born can be interfering with Gods plan. And there is also the thought that permission to use birth control would be sanctioning promiscuity. Something that already leads to unwanted babies. They figure if you really don’t want to get pregnant, than don’t mess around. As for married couples it’s believed that God puts couples together to have a family.
At least this is what I have always been lead to believe was the Church’s stand on birth control.
I believe the only time it is allowed is if the wife would be at risk to carry a child, and so birth control is allowed because sex (making love) is still a way for a husband and wife to stay connected and can help in keeping a spouse from straying outside the marriage.

It’s against their religion.

The reason stems from a few verses in the bible…

“But I wonder why he the heretic Jovinianus set Judah and Tamar before us for an example, unless perchance even harlots give him pleasure; or Onan, who was slain because he grudged his brother his seed. Does he imagine that we approve of any sexual intercourse except for the procreation of children?” -Jerome, Against Jovinian 1:19, (AD 393)

“Because of its divine institution for the propagation of man, the seed is not to be vainly ejaculated, nor is it to be damaged, nor is it to be wasted” -Clement of Alexandria, The
Instructor of Children 2:10:91:2 (AD 191)

“To have coitus other than to procreate children is to do injury to nature” -Clement of Alexandria, The Instructor of Children 2:10:95:3

Anything written in the bible is justifiable. That is the source of truth according to Christians.

So, they can’t encourage any practice that prevents life, but what they can do and are commanded to do, is to help the poor to the best of their ability.

I sooner would ask, how stupid are the Filipino’s for having children when they can’t afford too? Especially when the entire environment is unstable…

Apparently, common sense has left the Philippines long ago. This is price you pay for ignorance.

The theological reasoning behind it, as I’ve heard it, is because God’s first commandment to Man was “Go forth and multiply.” As the first, it is taken to be the most important, as well, otherwise He would have said something else first. By using birth control, you are going against the command of multiplying. The verses above are why the Church is against masturbation, but not BC or condoms.

Using a condom is wasting seed since it prevents procreation, so the verses apply.

@lawkes Pardon my ignorance. but I am unaware of any books in the bible titled “Jerome, Against Jovinian” or “Clement of Alexandria, The Instructor of Children”.

I am familiar with the story from Genisis about a man spilling his seed rather than knocking up his brothers wife, but am unfamiliar with the books you reference.

Please enlighten me as to how the books you reference are considered biblical passages.

I have no idea, I’m not a Christian. I just googled it.

Here, found what you’re talking about. The verses are in there as well.Onan

Once again “Onan” is not a book in the bible, but rather a minor character in the book of Genesis.

It really doesn’t bother me one way or another as I don’t have a rabid attachment to any particular religion, but there are a fairly large number of biblical scholars out there and when you attribute something to being from a bible verse, you should probably make sure your reference is, in fact, from a bible verse rather than from some letter some guy wrote about a bible verse over 300 years AD.

They’re referencing the verse in the bible… or better yet, it says it clearly in the bible.

It’s in Genesis 38:8–10.

“And Onan knew that the seed would not be his; and it came to pass when he went in unto his brother’s wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest he should give seed to his brother.”

“And the thing which he did was evil in the sight of the LORD; and He slew him also”

He was killed by God for the thing he did (spilled his seed on the ground instead of procreating)

Sounds pretty clear to me…

Thank you for including the actual reference to the passage to which you were referring.

As for it being a clear commentary on Gods opinion of birth control is quite up for debate. It is pretty clear that Onan was punished because the lord wanted him to knock up his brother’s wife, which he refused to do. However, being punished for not following a specific directive is far from being a general commentary on the practice of birth control.

Do you also interpret this passage to mean that procreating with your brother’s wife is righteous in the eyes of the Lord? Seems pretty clear to me that God smote Onan for refusing to do so.

@mazingerz88 What does any of that have to do with the Church? It is not a political institution. It is a private club. What you think is not relevent to the Holy Mother Church. I am atheist, and even I know that.

@lawkes I think if the poor and poorly uneducated in the Philippines are ignorant, do you consider then that the creation of starving kids their fault when the two most influential entities in their lives, the goverment and the church are at odds with how to help them stop the cycle of ignorance resulting to being poor and uneducated? You can say that the Filipinos are ignorant and stupid for being Catholics, if that’s what you mean then I agree. Ignorant people needs help of being educated and influenced to prevent them from contributing to the endless cycle of kids being born into extreme poverty. The goverment there is inadequate and the Catholic church is no help. They are the ones who are ignorant. They are willingly ignoring the real solution. I find it hard to label poor ignorant people when it’s not their fault they’re ignorant.

@Pandora Forgive me but when you said life and death is God’s domain and not the church’s and its people and that it will be hypocritical of them if they try to stop life from happening for it is sacred then it follows that they don’t see anything wrong with God’s plan of having kids out there who are suffering since birth. They would not question God and just try to ease the suffering of those children by establishing charities. That would make them feel better knowing they are doing this for God who probably prefers having suffering kids around so He could see which of His followers are good and which one is selfish. The kids are the means to test his people’s love for Him. What A Simply Wonderful World this is.

@josie Sorry but the Church is nothing but a political institution. Maybe more powerful than any supposed political institution in places like the Philippines. 99% of the politicians there are Catholics. Unfortunately according to @lawkes it’s their fault since they do not have common sense and are stupid. The faithful will never buy that.

@josie The Church was a political institution, and they don’t exactly change their policies regularly to keep up with the times. Now they’re still a political institution, but not a successful one.

@mazingerz88 Never remembered the church ever taking a stand against helping children or anyone in need. Most Christian churches are very heavily involved in charities. Only like most things. Funds have to come from somewhere and everything costs and even running charities costs.
They don’t have a bottomless pit full of money. For the things or people they cannot help, they trust that God has it all worked out. Even if we don’t understand.
But honestly what does it matter. Most people don’t use birth control (which was the main focus of this conversation) because of laziness and ignorance. Some just wish to use the church as a reason to their stupidity in getting knocked up because someone couldn’t cool off for one night till they could run out and grab a condom.
God gave us all free choice and last I looked the church isn’t in everyones bedroom holding a gun to people head. Even if the church started handing out condoms there would still be thousands of unwanted pregnancies and VD. Why, because stupid is as stupid does. There are always going to be those people who say it doesn’t feel natural to wear a condom.
So my question, is how or why does the church have to change its views. No one ever said being Christian was an easy path. If it was than everyone would join. Its not a Club Med.
If the right thing was always the easy thing than our prisons would be empty.

“God gave us all free choice and last I looked the church isn’t in everyones bedroom holding a gun to people head.”
True, but they use something even worse, but a lot more subtle, on a mental level.
They call it “Hell”.

@YoBob,

Alright, so since we seem to be interpreting this passage differently, this means that verses that are not straight forward are up for interpretations. Who was given the right to interpret and can best interpret verses? According to Christians, it’s the head scholars – bishops, priests, etc… So it doesn’t matter how you or I interpret it, it’s how they do. According to those previous verses from the books that I provided, they seem to interpret it as one who wastes his seed in any form of way, is a sinner. I don’t see how birth control is the exception, when its function is to prevent procreation by stopping the seed from doing its job, thus wasting it.

@mazingerz88

First of all, just because someone practices religion (which is a way of life) does not make one ignorant. So no, I’m not saying that someone is stupid for being Catholic. Objective truth is subjective, get over it.

Secondly, who is at fault if not the poor and uneducated?

Thirdly, who says help is an obligation? Charity: The voluntary giving of help.

@lawkes So the poor and ignorant in the Philippines are ignorant for no reason other than to be at fault, but not when they are being faithful Catholics because religion does not make one ignorant? Anyone who produces a child who will grow up to be poor and ignorant and who will in turn produce another poor and ignorant child is the one to blame for his ignorance? But his religion has absolutely nothing to do with that. Nice.

@lawkes and @Pandora You have misunderstood my comments on charity. I was not expecting more help or any help, none. I was being facetious about it.

Why do people label poor as being something horrible. My grandparents where poor, and they both had large families that were poor, and I came from a large family and I was poor. There were always stories of stuggles and great moments as well. We were all happy. My dad had to leave home at 13 and go work for a family and he would send money home. Yet I never remember hearing him ever complain. Everyone I know who knew him always thought we were blessed to have such a great dad. He never thought he shouldn’t have been born. He was happy for the life he had and held onto every bit of it till the day he died. He was always smiling, joking and very happy. You can be rich and ignorant and miserable and it is also possible to be poor and happy. He knew how to rejoice in the everyday little things. Rich or poor, nobody is promised an easy life. I also grew up poor. Many of my favorite memories was finding joys in the simple things. I still do. I would no longer be consider poor but I think I was always rich for having had the life I’ve had. Personally, I am glad my parents didn’t use birth control or I wouldn’t be here. I know if it were left to my mom she would’ve stopped at the first 2 kids, leaving me out. But my dad always wanted a large family and he always worked hard to provide for us. My point is, often, people make their own hell. And like I said, the Church approving birth control may take the sting out of random sex but it will never prevent unwanted births or VD, if anything it may make things even worse.

@mazingerz88,

How is religion at fault for one’s poverty and ignorance? Where does it say in the bible that it encourages one who is poor and ignorant to reproduce without adequate sustenance?

Let me give you an example. If you look at the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission 600 page report on the housing bubble in America, it blames the government, the banks, and the citizens. Do you know why the citizens were at fault? Because they were purchasing houses that they could not afford and they didn’t bother reading what was written before signing. You know what the consequence is now? Those stupid consumers are now and have been squatting for years in a home that does not belong to them. It belongs to the bank and they have no intention of paying the bank back. This is thievery and the integrity of the bank diminishes when it becomes perfectly acceptable to borrow money without ever returning it.

What does religion have to do with this stupidity?

@Pandora I respectfully disagree. All it takes for me to do disagree with you is that innocent children do not make their own hell. It’s not even their ignorant and poor parents who make it for them since they do not know the difference. Well, maybe they do, when it’s too late and their kids who they have dreamt of once of having better lives than them still end up poor if not criminals. And the number of these kids are legion. You only have to dig for food beside them in fly infested trash cans along with filthy dogs to know that being a poor, especially a poor child is not a sin but it sure as hell must be stopped. You are one of the lucky ones whose parents stuck by you. There is nothing wrong or bad about being poor except when they are faulted for being ignorant and poor when they have kids they can’t feed and educate. And no, I don’t agree that the church approving birth control will make things worse. And the church should try it.

If your so worried about the poor and uneducated, then what are you doing here philosophizing about it, or expecting someone else to do your bidding’s for you?

Pick yourself up and go clean the fly’s and maggots of the poor persons face.

@lawkes I don’t think religion has nothing to do with with the financial crisis. And I would simply say this. Religion especially the Catholic church in places like the Philippines is at fault for their faithful’s ignorance and poverty and the incoming influx of newly born poor and bound to be inadequately fed and clothed babies. I may agree with @Pandora that the church is not duty bound to support birth control but the church must close its mouth in teaching that every life is sacred. Certainly the lives of those children who are born to suffer.

@lawkes Do not assume you know everything that I do or do not do. I worry about people like you who assume. And what are you doing here in this board thinking I want you to do anything?

Again, what verse in the bible encourages poverty?

Where does it say that one should have children even though he/she cannot sustain them?

All it says is not to waste your seed, so common sense dictates that if you can’t afford a child and you don’t want to be a sinner by wasting seed, you shouldn’t be having sex until you improve your situation.

Reread what charity means. It’s voluntary, not mandatory.

The Church can say whatever the hell it wants. Learn this key term, personal responsibility.

I didn’t say me, but you want to blame the Church for something they’re not responsible for.

@lawkes Sorry but you keep bringing up which bible verse is which and I’m not one who finds the bible relevant except when it suits my purpose. This is not one of them. And what if there is no verse in it that encourages poverty? I can hardly make the connection so forgive me. And no, personal responsibilty does not factor in this as much as religious influence does. If religion wishes its faithful to practice personal responsibility, they would have closed shop a long time ago.

@mazingerz88,

You make the claim that Christianity is responsible for one’s poverty and ignorance, yet when I ask you for some proof, you tell me it’s irrelevant and serves little value. Seems you’re falsely accusing then, aren’t you? Uncalled for defamation.

Personal responsibility is for the person, not the Church. The Church, as I said before, is a charity organization. The Church chooses when to help, who to help, and how much to help.

Not everyone gets a free lunch because there simply isn’t enough resources for it.

@lawkes Good night. And thanks for posting.

Good night.