I have a coworker who thinks keeping fish in aquaria is cruel - what's your opinion?

I feel like aquariums the same way I feel about zoos. They are necessary evils in the goal of educating people about animals and fish in the wild.

Many fish are territorial and would not move around a lot in the wild anyway.

I don’t know how cruel it is, but fish are smarter than some people realize. Someone once did an experiment that proved that goldfish could learn the shortest route through an underwater maze…

@HungryGuy I’m just amazed that only recently has research proven that they’re capable of feeling pain. Of course they feel pain. Any species that has the ability to avoid negative stimuli is capable of feeling pain; that’s what it’s for, to avoid serious physical damage.

The catch-and-release argument that going through the vigorous physical stress of being reeled in and and then having steel barbs ripped through your lips is harmless has always just blown my mind. Sure, it’s got to have a higher survival rate that being eaten or hung on someone’s wall as a trophy, but don’t pretend that it does no harm.

I think it’s cruel to keep humans in workspaces. But hey, if they don’t have the cognitive ability to chafe at the confines of an office, maybe it’s okay.~ :P

@syz – Of course all creatures feel pain!

I think if they were unhappy it would show, like in obsessive behavior. I recall a zoo elephant somewhere spending hours bangiing its head on a wall. That’s prolly not a good sign.

However I hate those tiny “aquariums” where people keep a fish in an over-sized drinking glass.

But mostly we should live with animals. It’s good for everybody.

A lot of things are disheartening…bettas in cups, domesticated animals not taken care of, most animals in circuses, abused children, battered women, starving people in other countries, terroism and the list goes on!... and on! The next time you’re at the pet store…looking at the Bettas….look at the rest of the fish. Do you think that they are actually happier in our tanks, than in their natural habitat? I think not…. But whatcha gonna do?

If you set up your aquarium properly, then it could be argued that it’s nicer for the fish than being in the wild, just as a domesticated cat is safer than a feral one.
But a properly set up aquarium means that the owner needs to be knowledgable and responsible about the following, and maybe even more:
– most obviously, make sure none of the fish species you put together will eat each other, bite at each other, etc.
– get familiar with the nitrite cycle and prevent buildup of ammonia or nitrites/nitrates
– be familiar with the temperature, pH, and water hardness your fish species prefer, and maintain it
– if you have species that like to have hiding places, include plants in the tank to help them feel safe
– research schooling preferences and don’t keep a solitary fish of a species that likes to school
– keep up with water changes, and obviously feeding. Don’t overfeed as fish will continue to eat as long as food is available, past healthy limits. Remove uneaten food to prevent its decomposition
– don’t squeeze more fish into a small tank than is comfortable for their space needs
– make sure the water is sufficiently oxygenated; use an aerator and a filter, and get a tank with a large surface area exposed to air

An actual aquarist could expand on this, I’m sure. I’ve never actually owned fish, but I’ve read up a lot on proper fish care because I plan to keep a large aquarium once I’m in a better position to own one. :)

It depends. If you lock a tiger in a cage the size of an average suburban backyard, it is cruel. If you lock it in a game park of several hectares, not so much. Fish kept in an aquarium should be given adequate space to continue their wild habits (I would never keep migratory fish in a tank – that is exceedingly cruel). If they are given sufficient space and food, and the oxygen/nutrient levels are kept at a healthy level, then I don’t see a problem with it. It is very hard to do all of this properly though.

I think generally people way underestimate the amount of space fish need to avoid swimming in their own poop so I can understand part of her viewpoint.

Let’s face it, out in the wild that just doesn’t happen. There the natural currents keep fresh water constantly recirculating.

So I don’t think it’s as much a matter of fish being “bored” in a small space as it is of swimming in their waste to one degree or another.

Unless there were something highly infrequent or unusual (such as “red tide”) this just wouldn’t happen to any degree at all in their normal habitat.

Most pet species have chosen human companionship over the years. Even the haughty feline hung around the granaries to hunt mice and some decided to enjoy the warmth of the hearth and eventually the pleasant human companions tending those firesides.

But fish and several other species literally were captured and taken from their natural habitats.

Of course it can be argued that most fish species lack the cognitive ability to attach themselves to humans by choice.

It’s an interesting conundrum to ponder.

Whoops. Ran out of edit time.

@syz

I’m curious about the Betta situation since you brought it up. I’ve always read that the rationale for keeping Bettas that way was twofold. They’re extremely aggressive (the males) so can’t be kept together. Their unofficial name is “fighting fish” and evidently will fight to the death. But of they’re kept in separate containers, they will display their gorgeous coloring when catching sight of each other.

Plus in their native environment (Vietnam) they normally live in really small shallow eddies and even puddles. So they naturally choose small spaces like that. But it wasn’t specified WHY they chose spaces that small.

Hopefully someone with more expertise on Bettas has more precise info.

Whilst I agree with you @syz when it comes to fish in tanks, I feel that keeping birds in cages is cruel so I have to wonder, is this hypocritical of me?

@Buttonstc: I have two bettas and what I read when I acquired them was that in their native land, they live in rice paddies, hence the small, dark, warm puddles. I can imagine for the people in the rice paddies, standing there harvesting rice and having fish swimming around must be interesting.

I feel bad for the bettas in the store, in the little containers. I like to think that the environment I’m providing at home is a touch nicer (one is in a one gallon tank and one is in a five gallon tank, both solo).

I think that, as with everything, while their is some sense of sadness when a creature lives in confinement, it is also true, for us and everything else. You can’t miss/long for what you have never had/known.

To take a wild fish and confine it to an aquarium, or to force an outdoor cat who has enjoyed roaming property to live in an apartment would pose its stressors and adjustments, same goes for a horse on pasture confined to a box stall.
However, if the creature has never known differently it is not floating around in a depressed state thinking to itself how sad it’s world is. lol

If conditions are not right for its optimum health and care requirements it can fall ill or depressed, but, the rest is human projection.

I take much more issue with caged birds, especially many of the parrots that end up with severe behavioral neuroses confined to cages with no stimulation.

I used to have a BLM burro who was free roaming in the Nevada desert for her first 5 years or so of her life. ‘Minnie Pearl’ acclimated to domestic life well, and, I am betting that there was no Captain Crunch in the desert. ( Her favorite treat) haha

@Coloma

Good point :)

There is also an absence of Fancy Feast (better known as “Kitty-Crack) out in the wild.

:D

@Buttonstc

Yes, there are plenty of perks to domestication, including shrimp flakes for fish and Taco Bell for us poor unwild creatures.

Oh, to wear grass stuffed skin boots, gathering our lichens and berries, and then…. lo & behold, a Taco Bell appears on the tundra! hahaha