Americans: How patriotic are you?

About a 2 on a scale of 1 to 10. I love living in America and am (mostly) proud of this country, but I’m not a fan of patriotism.

On paper, it seems harmless; but in practice it often masks negative attitudes toward non-Americans.

I am anti-patriotism or nationalism. So 0.

I reject the legitimacy of nation-states. How about -10?

Depends on which definition of patriotic you are using, since that word tends to get thrown around a lot by people from different political backgrounds with different motivations.

Am I patriotic in the sense that I believe the Constitution and many (note I didn’t say all) of the principles upon which the US was founded are inherently good.Yep, sure am.

Am I patriotic to the point of chauvinism and in the sense that I blindly follow anything my government does (yes, I’ve read Howard Zinn. I know the US is naughty at times)? Hell no.

I’m not going to rank myself on a scale because that doesn’t really work for my opinion.

I am a 10….this country was built on the blood, sweat and tears of Patriots who gave and did everything to enable this country to be great. A Patriot even helps those who cannot help themselves! A true Patriots gives of themselves for the betterment of their country, anything less….find a new place to call home!

What @Fiddle_Playing_Creole_Bastard said.

0 One earth. One people. A piece of land means nothing to me.

@tinyfaery Fuck yeah.

The United States was the first nation to be founded on an idea. It was not founded on simple conquest of territory, common religion or heritage of a conquering group. Not all of the ideas of the Founders were right for our time, but one of the ideas was that the principles of the founding could be modified by “the consent of the governed”. The rules they subscribed to weren’t written in stone and deemed immutable and holy.

I fully support most of the Founders’ ideas and most of the ones we’ve developed since then (though not all of the laws that have been derived as a consequence, and much less of the governments that enact those laws). However, I’m not a jingoist, chauvinist or nationalist. I believe that it’s possible to be “too patriotic” and to exclude others of good will who also want to subscribe to the same ideas, and I would like to welcome all who do.

I think we have come a long way from where we started, in terms of sharing and broadening those ideas with our fellow citizens. We have a long way to go to be more inclusive of fellow citizens who want to fully share in the ideas. We should also be more accepting to those who should be welcomed to participate and share the ideas and build up the nation, as well as “preserve, protect and defend” it, but who happened to be born outside its borders.

The soil, the flag, the borders mean very little to me except that I live on the soil, the flag is a symbol adopted as a visual tag of those who support and defend the ideas, and we live in a world divided by political borders.

The idea, though, that’s the thing. I love the idea.

I’m up close to 10. But, I do not consider myself nationalistic, that is scary to me. I also do not think we are the only great country. I love the idea of no borders, one world. I wish that were the reality.

What @Fiddle_Playing_Creole_Bastard said, except mine was going to be much less eloquent. On the one hand, I think it’s one of the better countries to live in. On the other hand, I look at all the problems we have and the disparity between the ideal America and the reality of America, and how often times the argument for it being great seems to be that we don’t publicly stone people to death for committing adultery, and it seems like that isn’t really great. Sorta the same idea as that a guy who isn’t a jerk shouldn’t be congratulated for meeting the basic requirements of human decency – it just feels like you really should be able to ask for more, for progress, for things to get better.

I would have to say almost a ten. I believe in American exceptionalism. I served in the American Army for over 34 years. I was almost killed in service to America several times, and am currently dying of cancer and diabetes contracted from exposure to Agent Orange while in Vietnam for two years. So yeah, I suppose I’m a ten.

A solid 1.

If you don’t love where you live, then gtfo. seriously?

GA @Cruiser.

Your country doesn’t have to be the best, but if you don’t appreciate it, then why do you live where you do?

@jonsblond I was born here. My patriotism has nothing to do with liking where I live, I love L.A. I don’t believe in separating people by arbitrary borders and ideologies that exist only in the mind. Seriously, the “love it or leave it” slogan is so ridiculous. As if it’s so easy to move to another country.

@tinyfaery I understand. The people who bitch but do nothing about it is also ridiculous. imo

and it really isn’t that hard to move. I’ve known many to do so. It just takes a some action.

But, if there were no borders, wouldn’t you want the United World to be a free place with freedom of religion, and power to the people, a democracy. Doesn’t valuing the ideals of America (even though we fail sometimes to live up to them) make someone patriotic? I don’t think believing America is a great country means you look down on or dislike other countries.

Meh. We’re a pretty good place to live, but certainly not the best in any number of respects.

Patriotism, though, has political overtones to me, so I would say I’m not particularly patriotic. Most Americans, like most people in any other nation, country or group, just want to go about their lives and maintain food, water, shelter, etc. When we elevate our own quest for those things into a moral imperative at the cost of others’ access to them by claiming patriotism, we tarnish all the moral values we’re claiming the right to.

@tinyfaery btw, hopefully you know me well enough to know I’m not a person to believe in “America, Fuck Yeah!”. though I do love the movie Team America (and Trey Parker).

When I say gtfo, I mean make some fucking changes if you aren’t happy with your circumstances. Jon and I moved to a place where we didn’t know anyone, but it was better for us in the end. It was hard, but we did it. We got the fuck out of a situation that we weren’t happy with. No one ever said it would be easy, but we did it (yes, it’s not a different country, but many people do move to a different country if they want it badly enough). It’s possible. We love where we are now and we aren’t afraid to appreciate it and accept our responsibilities as citizens who do.

I wouldn’t say I’m particularly patriotic. I’m not a flag waving, “God bless America and no one else” kind of person, which is what I think of when patriotism comes up. I might fly a flag on July 4th, but that’s about it.

That said, I like living in America, even though I might like living in Canada better, for the healthcare and the mindset behind it. I’m committed to most of the ideals our country is based on. I’m a minor activist when it comes to getting us closer to those ideals, and I take the right to vote seriously, exercising it regularly. Do I think America is great? No. Do I think it could be? Yes, with time and work. But so could the whole world. If that ever happens, the need for countries and imaginary boundaries will cease to exist. It’s up to us to make it so. Maybe I’m a global patriot?

This is why I love this place, dispels any misconceptions. As an Englishman, i’d always lauded the yanks as being a patriotic tubthumping lot. I thought it was one of their better qualities. I see that’s not entirely true, which is fair enough :¬)

I’m about a 0 on a scale of 1 to 10.

According to the majority, not very, because I’m a liberal atheist, so how could I possibly care about america lol.

@Blackberry But, how do you feel? And what majority? The majority down in the bible belt? Not the majority in the country.

@JLeslie Hmmm, I think I feel the same way as Fiddle. Oh, I’m actually in the military, so the circle of people I know (and the people they know etc) usually leans more to the right or center. I don’t have many liberal friends, although I’d like more lol.

@Blackberry The south is slightly over represented in our military.

@Blackberry does has some justification in feeling that way. A 2009 University of Minnesota study found atheists to be the most untrusted minority (above muslims, immigrants, etc). Heck, even the first Bush stated that atheists are neither citizens nor patriots.

I’m an atheist uber-liberal living in Massachusetts, and unless I go to a college town, I find it difficult to find similar creatures.

@tom_g I am not saying he does not have justification. Believe me I have been told I am a communist, because I am an athiest. They wrap God and country into a neat little package and tie it up with a bow. It is left over from the Red Scare, it is why we have under God in our pledge now. People don’t even know why they relate the two together.

I am stunned to hear Bush would say that?

@JLeslie Yep, I saw the video myself, I’ll try to find it.

@Blackberry That is so very dissappointing to know about Bush Sr. I was so very happy when Obama included athesist in his innagural speech.

A real patriot is the fellow who gets a parking ticket and rejoices that the system works.—Bill Vaughan

So I guess all the 10s and close to 10s here will share their good mood with us, the next time this happens ;-)

Just kidding…

@JLeslie Correction, there is no video of him saying that, only quotes. I may have been thinking of a different video I saw. Sorry.

@mattbrowne

I have contested parking tickets, but never cussed them OR those who write them. : )

I would place myself at a low score (3 at the most). I would rather live here than some place like China or Iran, but that doesn’t mean that I’m going to jump on Uncle Sam’s dick. I just think that being proud of where you live is ridiculous.

@Blackberry Do you think for sure it is true?

@JLeslie I’ve seen the quotes from numerous sources, and many people said he has said it, although that isn’t credible lol.

I guess, we’re soul mates then, @CaptainHarley – neither did I !

@mattbrowne

LOL! Dude! That’s fine, just as long as you don’t try to KISS me! : D

@CaptainHarley – I still haven’t received the haptic bodysuit I ordered :-)

ROFLMFAO!!!!

A 10. Like wealth, it’s okay to be patriotic as long as you don’t flaunt it. Just be proud that you live in a country where you have a lot of freedom and latitude to do things, enjoy things. I’d much rather to be “ignorantly patriotic” than live in a country where I’m fearing for loss of my basic rights all the time.

I love America. And it’s sad so many do not appreciate it here. You can say that America is not that good, or give it a minus 10, but relative to many other places on earth, you will quickly change your mind and be humbled for your unappreciativeness and gall.

My great grandparents fled their respective homelands because one was Communist and the other Facist. To live in a country like America, where there is democracy and freedom to express yourself, is something to be greatly valued. I never forget that, and neither should anyone else who lives here.

Very fine answer @MRSHINYSHOES thanks for putting it up!