Churchgoers: what systemic wrongdoing have you noticed within your church environment?

Too many of them talk the talk but don’t walk the walk unless there is something in it for them. They’ll spend hundreds of dollars of their own money getting to Mexico to “help the poor” there, but won’t help a poor neighbor out for a dime. They donate to the collection box, but don’t donate to anyone personally.

One local story regarding the Catholic Church has to do with the sex abuse scandal being turned into a further scandal with Priests using our local (well-known) Catholic college as their “free legal service” to help them get out of/circumvent the abuse charges.

Within the actual Church we attend, there are no known issues. We actually recently left the church on our block because it wasn’t autistic appropriate for our son. Since then, the head priest was removed due to an adult coming forward to press abuse charges from a previous church the priest was at…The case is ongoing. It appears that it may be dismissed due to the elapsed time.

@Dutchess_III Is the ‘them’ you’re talking about other churchgoers or people in the position of power like preachers?

The church goers.

@Dutchess_III Why do you think that is? Is the donating to the donation plate about what it appears like to others? Is the helping out the poor in Mexico about them thinking that their neigbors are corrupt? I know this is off topic but still want to know.

Honestly…they get an exotic vacation out of going to Mexico, or New York or wherever. They don’t get anything in return if they had over $50 to a poor neighbor.

I don’t think it’s off topic..it’s a form of systematic wrong doing, IMO. It’s the total opposite of what they’re supposedly taught to do.

@Dutchess_III Thanks for your answers, truly. Genuine answers.

@Dutchess_III Do people ever bring this stuff up? Is it something many people suspect?

I don’t quite understand what you mean @Blackberry..?
You’d really have to have been on both sides of the argument to understand, I think. I was a church goer for many years. My best friends were in the church. In the beginning I had no money worries what so ever. In fact, one of my friends and her husband lost both of their jobs at the same time. Serious bad luck. Without being asked I mailed off a $1000 check to them. It allowed them to make it through until they were both working again. I told them I didn’t expect them to pay me back, but they did, sort of.

Fast forward three years. I’m divorced, single mom, 4 kids, not receiving child support, running a day care to support the kids and going to school at the same time. I was dead broke. I came down with a urinary tract infection. I wouldn’t have the $15 I needed for meds for a few more days. Asked a friend if I could borrow the money until then. The fine Christian woman said No. Yeah. The same one I’d given the $1000 to. They said they didn’t have any extra money because…you got it…they were saving all their money to go to Mexico to help the poor. True story. In more ways than one ALL of my fine Christian friends really, truly let me down, and I had helped each and every one of them out when they needed it in years past. If I’d lived in Mexico I guess it would have been different.

In the church environment as a whole, I believe there is not enough forgiveness. God made it high on the list because it is tantamount to get to heaven. Jesus can that we be forgiven so why not pay it forward to our fellow man. It is one of the hardest things to do because we in out human nature want payback more than not; to even up the score. We rely on Karma, when we can’t extract our ”pound of flesh” ourselves. There are no perfect groups, none.

“Here, we’re passing around this big wooden bowl for you to put your money in, and we will frown at you if you don’t put anything in, even though you’re a month behind on your own mortgage.”

“Oh hi Heather! You’ll never believe how excited I was to see that my precious Kayliegh beat your little Masen on the TAKS test! My daughter is SOOOOOOO brilliant!”

“No, I’m sorry but I don’t have anything to donate to the homeless shelter this month, since I just bought a brand new Lamborghini.”

[Pastor] “And so, without putting it a congregational vote, I used church funds to buy myself a brand new laptop.”

There’s this man, who always says the prayer, and sometimes preeches, when Pastor lets him.
I know his kids, and his wife.
He just left his wife, for another woman.
I talked to his youngest daughter, and she told me he said he hated her! Then his eldsest daughter told him that wasn’t right, and he slapped her.
She also told me he hit his wife.
Then I see this man at church every day, and become furious all over again! How can he just stand there, and pretend he’s the man I used to think he was? Then he pretends he’s greaving for the wife and children he left behind? I just don’t buy it anymore. >:(

Spell check?

Don’t be a grammar bitch. ;)

@AshLeigh Language, lady. You’ve been flagged.

Don’t EVER call Dutchess a bitch. Sh’s a darling twit. Besides, “bitch” is MY title.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir,
Oops. Sorry. I forgot this was a churchgoers post. My bad. D:

We’re all grammar bitches here, dear. We’re teachers and doctors and lawyers and such.

“All” would imply that I am. :P
Which is simply not true. :)

OK. Everyone here but you. You WILL be clocked!

Will I? Will I really? ;)

The funny thing is that Simone is not a church goer, yet she’s the one who flagged you for language. Perhaps we’re just mad that you called Dutchess a bitch… that will not be tolerated, since she is nothing of the sort.

@WillWorkForChocolate,
I didn’t call her a bitch. I called her a grammar bitch. There is a difference.

I thought it was funny that Simone did that too!! Lurves to ya’ll! ♥♥♥♥

Well, grammar b***h or not, the spell check is a good idea. Your posts lack credibility if they are riddled with misspellings.

Can I be the bitch, now? Huh? Can I? Can I?

It’s morning. Hah.
I find it obnoxiously annoying when people feel the need to correct everyone on everything.
Rude!

LOL! Welcome to Fluther! The home of the obnoxiously rude!

Thanks. :P Glad to be here. :D

Semantics darling. Actually, I prefer “Grammar Nazi”, but maybe that’s just me.

@WillWorkForChocolate,
I think being a Nazi sounds worse than being a bitch…

OK then, Grammar Nabu. Howzat?!

I like that. haha.

[mod says:] Hey all, I know this is in Social, but please keep the chatty responses to a minimum. Per the guidelines, responses must still relate to the discussion. Thanks. Keep in mind there is a PM feature.

@Dutchess_III Your answer rings very true, and I saw similar things in my church. I was raised going to one of those big megachurches, and it was an expensive new building. They were always organizing trips to go away and build houses or do charity work. But here in Washington D.C., there are so many people struggling with poverty or homelessness. The cost of the trip could have been put to much better use.

I’m sorry that you went through those experiences.

@AshLeigh I’m so hung over that I want to die, but one of the things that always makes me feel better is the quality of writing here on Fluther. Think of this website as a well-tended garden… of spelling and grammar. Or something. Nobody means it in a mean way, but SPAG errors are just hard to read. And @Dutchess_III is really nice. :)

@Simone_De_Beauvoir I was away a bit & thought of something more personal to tell of

Christ-ocrites (that’s what I call them anyway & yes, I know it’s judgmental of me)...the people that go to church, possibly even work for or volunteer regularly at the church, then leave Mass & flip an old grandpa off at the corner stop sign (this has happened directly in front of our home…enough times that I’ve brought it up with our priest).

@Haleth You know…you can’t judge them too harshly. If you’ve never been there you can’t imagine the value a simple $20 can have to a poor person. I would not have understood it if I hadn’t gone through it. In fact, I can tell you I’m much more generous now than I would be otherwise.

Dudes! What happened to the flag link???

@Dutchess_III Refresh.

Our parents have been members of the same small, southern US Presbyterian church since 1965. We have seen about a dozen ministers come and go, as well as many members, over the years. Both parents were fairly pragmatic (other than their belief in God), so they both became active in the church. Dad was an Elder, and Mom resided on the financial committee, as well as the selection committee when a new minister needed to be found.

What I found out later is that they did so in order to help maintain the integrity of the church’s direction. There were a few scandals that cropped up over the years, but the same can be said for the company where I used to work. Were they swept under the rug? Just like at work, the problem people were removed from their position, and it didn’t make front page news.

I haven’t been a churchgoer since 1958, but the Westboro Baptist Church and Christian Identity are built on systemic wrongdoing.

Hmm, thinks to self, do I really want to get involved in another religious conversation?

I think I can cut to the heart of the issue, THE CHURCH IS COMPLETELY FULL OF SINNERS (people fallen short of their adopted standard of perfection), every last one of them, some more than the others. Although I have lost faith in my fellow believers I have not lost faith in Christ. I especially don’t want to give any who despise the Christian faith fodder for their crucifixion of the church. Although some Christians have lost site of the fact that they are no better than anyone else, the truth is the only member that anyone has credited with perfection was Christ himself.

I’m sure as hell not perfect, awe shit I cussed. My faith isn’t being something I’m not.

It’s easy to hold up the standard of holiness to Christians and convict the church at their failures, but is the rest of humanity any better? I guess it boils down to when church goers slip into pride and hypocrisy. Most of what is said above by other jellies is very true and very sad.

I think I can cut to the heart of the issue, THE CHURCH IS COMPLETELY FULL OF SINNERS (people fallen short of their adopted standard of perfection), every last one of them, some more than the others. Lurva, lurve, larve that; inside the church AND OUT. To bad I have only one to give you because there is a lot of iron in what you say.

I was attending a mega-church for awhile. The Pastor is a very popular, down-to-earth type who preaches in jeans, has a soft voice and a gentle manner. This church is huge, like a compound and they own a coffee shops and a few other retail businesses in town. I think his hook is his amazing story-telling ability. Most of his sermon consisted on personal anecdotes that of course are devolved around a moral. What turned me off was something that nobody seemed to notice or care about: he often changed the stories to the suit the moral. It bothered me, because he said these things actually happened yet he often told them in such completely different ways that I started to think of him as a liar. Once I had made that conclusion, I could never go back.

@sarahtalkpretty It bothered me, because he said these things actually happened yet he often told them in such completely different ways that I started to think of him as a liar. If he has stuck with the Bible text the story would be the same, unchanging, but then way more than you would have left. Hence, the pastor fell into the mistake of feeding the flock milk instead of meat because they couldn’t handle anything stronger.

I see a lot of people slowly getting the dirt scrubbed off of them. Until they’re done, they’re going to be smelly.

I see a lot of people who refuse to allow the dirt to get scrubbed off of them because they’re active in church, hey. So their dirt don’t stink.

@Dutchess_III Yeah, they’re in there too, though I do wonder sometimes if they count. Sitting in a driveway doesn’t make you a car, after all…
Don’t worry; God is just, and He knows the score.

: ) I know, @Nullo. I answer to him and the lady in the mirror. : )