Can someone tell me what the deal is with the ads that state that many American children will go hungry unless the school feeds them (for free) during the summer?

Are you serious?

What about kids whose parent/s are working all day so they can afford to pay the bills, and hence can’t be there to cook their child a meal? Some older kids could probably make something, but what about the 10 and under club, or 5 and 6 year olds?

Despite what you seem to be thinking, you don’t get more food stamps the further into poverty you are. At a certain point you reach the max amount they will give you.

So you want to throw out the entire food stamp system, that serves millions of Americans, because of one receipt in a grocery store parking lot? Having met people on food stamps I can tell you steak and “crap” legs (perfect typo btw) are not the norm, but rather canned goods and boxed carbs.

Who said the school meal would be their only meal? If that is the case then yah you should probably go ahead and report them because trying or not their parent can’t care for them.

You’re tearing apart a program that is meant to help the poor and underprivileged in this country. Yes maybe some of them can make it without it, and yes maybe some people will abuse it (and heck if anything it would be good because then we can see who isn’t taking care of their kid). But by in large why is it such a bad thing that we give the most destitute among us a way to make living a bit easier? If I were in a situation where I had to work all day and I couldn’t even afford a babysitter, let alone tons of food, I would send my kid there everyday.

Then you have the gaul to say you’d rather spend your tax dollars in another country?

There are so many things I want to say, but all of them would get me flagged for calling you names.

Um, 5 and 6, 7, 8, 9 year olds BETTER be in some adult care. Don’t you think? Any kid over 10 can heat something up for lunch in the microwave. Preferably something the parent made the day before, like a burrito or something. Soup and crackers. That’s how I worked it during the summer when my kids got to that age. There was always sandwich fixings in the fridge. They were far from starving. I would have NEVER sent them some place else for free food, when I was perfectly capable of providing it for them, in spite of the fact that I was dirt poor.

And as far as food stamps. I speak from experience. Yes, there is a cap, because I’ve reached it, and I’m here to tell you it’s an unbelievably huge amount.

We’ve discussed very similar issues before before. A couple of times. It seems you really have a horse to flog when it comes to food stamps, but I think these two threads did a pretty good job in pointing out the problems with your argument.

@Dutchess_III :: What is the cap? I got food stamps for a bit. I had no income and was homeless and got 148 a month in Oregon. So under 5 bucks a day to eat. I’m assuming I got the limit for a individual.

If you were a single male, I can imagine it you would recieve quite a bit less than a single female with dependent children. The highest amount I got for a family of 4 was $600. Food was NEVER an issue. NEVER a problem. Rent, utilities…well, that was a different story. That was a struggle.

Further, for one person, $5.00 a day is plenty. That’s $150 a month. For one person. Unless you demand foods such as crab legs and steaks (refer back to brouhaha on grocery receipt.)

@crisw I just don’t understand it. I’ve lived it, and it’s total BS, this idea that if an American kid comes from a poor family it follows that he’s going to be going hungry. We’re are not a 3rd world country, so why do we try to act like our kids have it as hard as theirs?

@Dutchess_III Ok I will grant you living off $5 a day is doable. But its sure as heck not easy. You have to shop with a very strict knowledge of your budget, and hope you don’t make any mistakes. I am lucky enough that I don’t have to limit myself to $5 a day right now, but believe you me I have tried in the past, and failed miserably. I’ve heard about countless congressmen trying to live off just food stamps for even just a month, and then talking about how hard it was and some not even finishing the month. And if someone was spending their food stamps on crab legs and steaks they would run out of money in less than a week, if they had only $5 a day.

The idea in giving poor families food stamps is that you will help support them by giving them food, rather than money they could spend on drugs/alcohol/things they don’t need. People complain that the welfare systems are abused and people use social security checks to by lotto tickets and what have you, well here they can’t… they can get food, so we know that by in large the money is going to exactly what it should be. The simple fact is, it helps poor families keep food in their kids stomachs.

@Dutchess_III :: My sister got food stamps after her shithead ex-husband decided to stop paying child support. She has three kids and she did get more. But it wasn’t linear. But thinking that she was eating lobster and steak is false. Maybe she was wasting your money by wanting her children to eat luxuries like an apple.

If you are poor you should be on a strict budget. You should be working to make the food stretch. It shouldn’t be any different than living very, very frugally, being very, very careful about what you spend your money on so that you have enough to make the rent and the utilities. You don’t send the kids to the pool in the summer, you don’t send them to the movies, because you can’t afford it. Why should food be any different?

…“rather than money they could spend on drugs/alcohol/things they don’t need.” Hey..I read on Snopes, the rest of the story about the crab legs/food stamp thing. The guy was arrested for selling the stuff for cash, $.50 on the dollar. Probably to buy drugs. It’s not hard to trade up food stamps for cash or other trade. If you have more than you possibly really need, then that’s what some people are going to do.

I’ve taught in underprivileged schools. None of those kids were anywhere close to “going hungry.” There were just as many overweight kids as there were in any other school.

I’m saying, if someone out there says, “Hey, I’m going to take your tax money to feed a hungry kid,” I’d rather be feeding these children rather than these kids

Regarding said Congressmen…they didn’t even make it through the month? So what did they do for that last week? Not eat at all? Or did they just go home and have the cook whip something up for them.

If that was ALL the money you had to get through the month, and you knew there would be no more I guarantee you that you would find a way to make it through that month.

The summer food programs in America are a total waste of money, IMO. They are not necessary for any one’s survival.

@johnpowell What was your sister’s income? How much you get does depend on that. As I gradually began making more more and more money, the food stamp allowance dropped until it ceased altogether when I made it all the way to $19,000 a year. And yeah…the fewer the stamps, the more the food would stretch. $2.00 worth of corn bread and beans will last 3 days. 4 when you turn them into burritos on the 4th day! Nothing wrong with just a baked potato with cheese sauce for dinner once in a while. No worse than, say, pancakes and eggs for dinner. But when I was getting the max…yes. Crab legs and steaks, if I so choose. It wouldn’t have made a dent in the stamps.

I just had a thought. We have two churches here that help poor people pay their utilities. I think the limit is $50 per year—in other words, you can only ask for help once a year. To actually pay the bill you have to hit both churches up and hope they both have the funds. I think I’ll set up a collection can about town asking for donations to those church’s funds. I’ll specify that the money is used specifically to help poor people pay their utilities. What do you think, guys? Is it a good idea?

Hunger in America

@jonsblond Explain a scenario to me in which a kid in America could live in a “food insecure” household. With all of the federal assistance available, how could that happen? Just because a committee has been created doesn’t, in itself, prove that there is a need. I would like a “for example,” if you can give me one.

And what is the deal with food? There is just as much of a need for assistance, if not more, for paying necessary house hold bills, like rent and utilities. Lack of clean water and lack of shelter is just as serious as a lack of food. Why aren’t there any programs set up, outside of the federal government, for that?

From your other thread: I guess if people haven’t experienced it, they can’t really sympathize. Why do you feel the way you do about hunger?

From my personal experience, when the food budget is tight the first thing you lose is nutrition. When I was a child my family went through a time where all we ate was spaghetti and rice, pretty much. We were on the reduced school lunch program and that meal was the main source of variety in our diets.

I’ve also gone hungry as an adult, when I was just starting out in my first place. I bought the very cheapest stuff, like ramen noodles and rice, but after I was done paying for rent and transportation to work, there wasn’t money for quite enough food.

Requirements for food stamps vary by state, but many cap income at 130% of the poverty line as a requirement for receiving food stamps.

The government’s definition of poverty is not tied to an absolute value of how much an individual or family can afford, but is tied to a relative level based on total income received. For example, the poverty level for 2011 was set at $22,350 (total yearly income) for a family of four.[3] Most Americans (58.5%) will spend at least one year below the poverty line at some point between ages 25 and 75. (from wikipedia on poverty)

130% of the poverty line for a family of four is $29,055. Depending on the cost-of-living in your area, a family earning that level or more may still be desperately poor. Here in the DC area, the median rent is around $1700. (One-bedroom apartments start at roughly $1000.) So 29k per year won’t get you very far.

According to the USDA,, a family of four that meets the requirements can receive a maximum of $668 monthly, which works out to about $5.50 per person per day.

This is with the maximum income and the maximum payment. A family could still have an uncomfortable/ insecure style of living if they earn above the income cap, say $40,000 for a family of four. The eligibility requirements for food stamps are too narrow and the program doesn’t cover everyone who needs the help.

I’m not concerned about hunger because, in this country, no matter how little money I made, I never had to worry about my kids going hungry. I worried about utilities and rent, but never about food. When my income hit $19,000 in 1996 we were no longer eligible for food stamps. I paid for the food out of my pocket and STILL didn’t have to worry about going hungry. It’s all about budgeting.

I can’t answer to your comment about a tight food budget. Apparently your family brought in sufficient income so that you didn’t qualify for food stamps, only for reduced lunches.

An adult going hungry is one thing. All of these programs are geared toward kids. As far as I know, an adult, by him or herself, won’t qualify for food stamps. But I don’t know.

(I’m answering your paragraphs one at a time.) You throw out numbers like $40,000 a year. If a person can’t support their family on $40,000 a year, there is something wrong with them. Poverty, to me, is $10,000 to $15,000 a year and 4 kids.

I’m a like you, I know people with children can get assistance and not ever be hungry. It’s the people who make too much to get food stamps but just barely enough to eke out utilities and a rent.

I used to envy the food stamp people who could buy ribs, steaks, big trays of chicken for bbq’ing and all kinds of yummies like regular cereals, crackers, different breads, cheeses, so much to overflow a cart while I had my few little cheapo items and nasty turkey dogs to get by on.

I’ve often wondered if food assistance people had particular food exclusions they would be more motivated to get off the assistance, have only as many children as they could afford and have fewer vices on the side. Why is it the rest of us look on most meats as luxury items, juices and sodas as “extras”, non essentials, packaged foods as a non essential convenience and we go without. Do you think anyone gives a damn if we don’t eat well even though we pay taxes, work full time? Nope.

Do you think anyone gives a damn if we don’t eat well even though we pay taxes, work full time? Nope. @Neizvestnaya That is an excellent point.

I think a simple solution would be to cut the allowance by at least a third. Or do some sort of study to find out what an average family of 3, 4, 5 spend of their own money on food every month, and base the allowance on that.

Do you think anyone gives a damn if we don’t eat well even though we pay taxes, work full time?

What a terrible assumption to think that everyone who receives food stamps doesn’t work at least 40 hours a week and does not pay taxes. And it’s terrible that a few dumb asses who waste their stamps on steak and soda need to ruin the reputation for every other person who needs food stamps and does the best they can with that money.

@jonsblond I thought of that, but dismissed it, although I worked 40 hours a week, and paid taxes, while I was substitute teaching full time for those 4 years. However, I only made $50 to $65 a day. Do the math. I was seriously eligible for food stamps. But I still agree with the spirit of @Neizvestnaya‘s thoughts. I ate a much greater and more expensive variety of foods then than I do now.

And how is it “wasting” stamps to buy steak and shrimp if it isn’t any kind of hardship at all? It was no hardship for me.

@Dutchess_III “Wasting stamps”. That was what I thought you meant when you were putting people down for buying such luxuries.

No. My point is, if you have the luxury to buy such luxuries that the average working Joe (like us) can’t afford, then you don’t need to waste my tax money buying them even more food. Who do you think is funding these stupid and wasteful free summer lunch programs?

@Dutchess_III Again, many people who receive food stamps also work and pay taxes, so they are also funding these wonderful programs that help the undernourished children of this country.

I’m sorry, but your examples of how you fed your children when times were tough were not the best or most nutritious. It costs money to buy the good lettuce (not watery $1 head iceberg lettuce) broccoli, oranges, apples, etc.. The healthy bread is also not inexpensive. What’s cheap is the crappy white bread. Many summer lunch programs give children a better option than a can of ravioli or peanut butter and jelly on crappy white bread that’s left behind when mom and dad are working. These programs also give the children an opportunity to be with their peers instead of being home alone.

Also, I know you are more concerned about providing help for water and electricity bills for the poor instead of food. There are many programs available to those who receive food stamps for such help. All they need to do is go to their local Department of Health and Human Services or give them a call.

@jonsblond What I fed my kids when times were tough, that you are finding something to criticize, are the times that I made too much money ($19,000 a year) to qualify for food stamps. When I was really poor, I had access to more food than I knew what to do with.

The whole point is, people who get food stamps can afford more, and better food, than people who pay for the food out of their own pocket. We don’t need to give them any more food! Especially when that money, our tax money, can go for more needed things.

I’m speaking from experience. You’re speaking from philosophy. Just head on down to your “local Department of Health and Human Services or give them a call” (you sound like a TV ad) and find out what assistance is really available for utilities and such. There isn’t.

The whole point is, people who get food stamps can afford more, and better food, than people who pay for the food out of their own pocket.

That’s not true. They receive the help because they need the help. Just because they get help doesn’t mean they have more money to spend on food than someone who doesn’t receive help. I know this because I’ve been a user of food stamps (guess what, our family receives a little at this moment), I know how it works and I know how hard it is to feed your family a healthy meal when you have little money.

And my “TV ad” is what help has been given to us from the Department of Health and Human Services. They are the people who directed us to the help we need with utilities.

I’m also speaking from many years of experience with the program.

It’s the eviroment that kids need. Like air conditioning that they might not have a t home, or a safe place to be with their friends and supervision and social structure that is similar to that of the regular school year. It’s easier to keep tabs on the kids such as when they stop showing up for meals it might be a indicator of problems. With some kids, school is the only serious discipline structure they get. It can be a long 3 months before the school year begins. Hopefully the food they get there is descent and hot.

Haha, “crap legs”.

@jonsblond I agree that there comes a time when your income can get to a point where food stamps assistance is about worthless…you get $15 or $20 or whatever, but your income isn’t high enough to allow you to eat the way you do when it’s really low, because you have to pay for most of the food yourself. People with the lowest income have the ability to eat the most healthy, but I’m sure they don’t avail themselves of it any more than the rest of us do, in general.

I’ve been specifically talking to people who receive food stamps, asking them if they get enough. Without exception, so far everyone I’ve spoken to says “Oh, hell yes!” One guy I talked to today, a single, able bodied male, told me he receives $200 a month. He’ll allows people to take his card and use it, and then they pay him cash for whatever they bought.

My daughter says she gets plenty. When she gets them she often asks if there is anything she can get at the store for us because they get more than they need.

We had WAY more than we needed when I was receiving assistance. They gave us $600 a month! When I buy it myself, I’d spend, maybe, $200.

@woodcutter It’s the same crap they get at school. Some of it’s hot and some of it’s not…what does hot have to do with it, anyway? Just curious. People talk about ‘hot food’ as if the temperature somehow makes it more nutritious than cold food. Is fresh, hot pizza more nutritious than left over pizza from the fridge? Just curious!

@Dutchess_III: I’ve known a bunch of people who get food assistance who sell their card usage.

@Dutchess_III It may well be the same fare they get in the school year but it’s probably better than what they would have otherwise. I have to believe that in school menus there are more nutritious foods that are simply passed up by kids who go for the junk instinctively. I only mentioned hot food to imply that there may be a more substantial effort going into preparing it. They could probably scrounge cold food at home. Some kids don’t need this help and have it pretty good at home where there is a nanny looking after them but many do need the exrta help.

@Neizvestnaya Yep. Obviously they aren’t in real need of food. They might sell assistance to put gas in their cars, or to help them pay the utilities or rent. Or buy smokes or booze. If they were desperate for food, hadn’t eaten in two days, they wouldn’t do that.

@woodcutter OK. So that takes us back to the original point. If the schools are feeding the children during the summer because their parents aren’t taking care of them then their home life should be looked in to. Don’t you think?

Any kid under 10 had better be with a child care provider, or that home needs some looking in to. (Although I think the law says that a child 12 and under needs to be in care. Not sure, about it, but that was the standard for me, anyway. I’m just using the age of 10, because at that age you’re old enough to run to the school by yourself to eat because you’re starving. Younger than that, they’d need someone to take them there, drop them off, then pick them up. If they don’t have someone to do that, then they aren’t being cared for.)

If a parent won’t provide decent food for a kid over the age of 10 (or 12) to eat or snack on throughout the day, or to have a decent lunch when they’re at work…fruits, cheese sticks, yogurt, PB&J, turkey, bread, strawberries, bananas, pre made burritos, pre made “hot” food that they can heat up in the microwave, soups, whatever, then that home needs to be looked into.

ESPECIALLY if the parents in question receive food stamps and should have absolutely NO PROBLEM providing food for their kids, either to take to the provider or to make for themselves, that home needs to be looked in to.

In every case, there are bigger problems there for the kids than missing one lousy meal a day (which I bet they wouldn’t anyway.) Especially when 70% of the kids, and the parents, are overweight.

@Dutchess_III Fair enough. Personally I think the whole thing is for regular socialization in a safe zone. Just because the kids get the whole summer off doesn’t mean parents who work do. Many kids are left to fend for themselves even though it is frowned upon by the parenting Nazis, it happens. Daycare for some is cost prohibitive for some people. Kids get into trouble sometimes when left to their own devises day after day. So like I said before, the school is a regular regime that kids get into and they get some food to boot. What could be wrong with that?

@woodcutter No…they don’t get schooling too. Just lunch. Assuming they can get there.

I spoke with one of my daughters (who works in food services for the schools but wasn’t picked for the summer thing.) She said the program feeds any and all kids who might show up. I oughta volunteer for the day and see exactly what kinds of kids show up. How old they are, what “condition” they’re in. If they’re clean and apparently well fed, or dirty and unkempt. And how old they are, on average. I think…I just may do that!

And I agree…too many kids are, literally, left to fend for themselves over the summer when they’re too young to do so. It’s a bad, bad deal for them. It’s heartbreaking.

I’m guessing some get there by walking in groups or maybe if they live close they all cram into a minivan and make the trip. I think in our area some adults can get a meal too,probably if they are drivers or chaperoning in some way.

I just can’t imagine an adult spending the time and the gas to get kids to school for free food, rather than simply making a $.25 PB & J sandwich! I am by there at lunch every day (the school in question is just up the street.) I never see any groups of kids. I don’t see any activity at all, actually. I’m going to do some more checking. Maybe I’ll take a couple of my grandkids in there and explain that I’m too tired to make a sandwich and will they please feed them. See what happens!

Not everyone is you @Dutchess_III. Just because you can’t imagine doing it doesn’t mean there are people that don’t need the help!

Some of the kids may very well need the help, if the adults are total deadbeats who sell their food stamps for drugs and booze. However, those kids would certainly show signs of neglect if the only meal that they got M-F was a school lunch, and they didn’t eat at all over the weekend when the schools are closed. You would see it on them, and I say, again, that the home needs to be looked in to. Throwing food at those children is addressing .01% of their problem. Besides plenty, plenty of “poor” people in America manage to be overweight because they eat too much. Only in America could a “poor” person have too much to eat.

And, @jonsblond, no, not everyone is me, but I’ve been among the poorest of the poor in America and I say again, food was never, ever, ever a problem. I could have weighed 300 pounds and my kids could have gotten fat, fat on the amount of stamps they sent us when my income was at its lowest.

And when my income went up, I started buying cheaper food, but we still never went hungry.

@Dutchess_III I know so many people who have used and benefited from food stamps. Families who never sold their stamps for drugs or alcohol, because they needed the stamps to feed themselves and their families. You seem to feel that what you have witnessed is how everyone (or the majority) who use food stamps behave. Your experience is not the same as everyone else. Just look at the personal stories of the people who need help from my link above. Look at the numbers included in my link of how many poor people are in our country and need assistance. I really don’t think you read any of it, because you feel your experience trumps anything anyone could tell you.

Lots of people are missing the cut off to get any assistance but are still doing badly financially. They make a few dollars too much to qualify but are still poor. They have to draw the line somewhere so there are lots of families that are on their own. If you haven’t noticed in the last oh, 12 or 15 years it’s still a bitch trying to make ends meet even with both parents working.

@Dutchess_III Please read this following link:
http://www.northernilfoodbank.org/Programs/ChildNutrition/Summer.aspx (it shouldn’t take you more than two minutes). Also look at the sample lunch menu provided at the bottom of the link. How could you be against the help this program provides to children who need it?

This is from the article: “One student was really excited to have strawberries because she said she didn’t eat them a lot at home. Another student was introduced to broccoli for the first time and she ended up loving it!” – Nuestro Center Family Services

@woodcutter I remember one point in my life where I made $4.00 (FOUR) dollars a month too much to qualify for medical for my kids any more. I think that was the year I grossed $15,000. That was a bitch! I was just sick to think of my kids without health insurance, especially because my son was so accident prone. He needed stitches every time I turned around! During that period my oldest daughter and her toddler son (my dependents—she was just 17) came down with severe bronchitis. The rest followed suit, like dominoes. They were some sick puppies. The doctor told me, “This is very serious…it could work into pneumonia. If you had health insurance I’d admit them to the hospital, but you don’t, so I’ll tell you what to do. I know you can handle it.” He gave me meds (samples) and I was 24 hours, round the clock for three days. I about died myself from sheer exhaustion. But we all pulled through.

@jonsblond I never sold my stamps for food or alcohol either. So? I’ll look at your link again. I’m sure we have lots and lots and lots of poor people in our country. And I’ll bet lots of them are overweight. Food is the least of their problems.

Re your last post. I’ll have to see it in context. I didn’t eat asparagus or spinach or egg plant at home. I was introduced to a lot of foods for the first time outside of my home, like mushrooms (which it turns out I LOVE!) Wasn’t introduced to Chinese food till I was on my own. So?

I’m not against any program that “helps” children. I’m against redundant and wasteful spending on programs that really aren’t needed.

And yeah. My story does trump. You’re trying to tell me I don’t really know what it means to be poor. That’s like telling a black person that they don’t really know what it means to be black.

I’ll go look at your link now.

From the link: “Northern Illinois is concerned that many of these children are without access to nourishment when school is not in session.” What makes them think that?

”“Many children are vulnerable to excessive weight gain over the summer,” What???? You can’t gain excessive weight without excessive food! That right there says it all for me. Parents obviously have the means to get excessive food, just not the right kind. Seriously.

Here is an example of one of the meals from your link, from the July 15 link. (They’re closed on July 5th, BTW, for the 4th of July holiday. So what if the kids are starving on that day. We gotta have our holiday!)

PB&J (which, if I’d said that’s what I might feed my kids for lunch, you’d say “BUT IT’S NOT HEALTHY!!_

Pretzels (??) I never kept crap like that in my house

Carrots w/ ranch (I had ‘em. Kids rarely ate them)

Nectarine (ditto, only I had oranges)

String cheese (kids ate the hell out of string cheese! Until I lost food stamps and couldn’t afford it any longer. Then they had to make do with “square” cheese. Cheapo ‘Merican cheese which is no where near as healthy as “string cheese” I’m sure.)

Chocolate milk. (Again, had chocolate when I could afford it, on foods stamps. Didn’t when I couldn’t. Kids had to settle for plain old white milk. Poor babies.)

That entire menu cost less than a dollar per kid, but the parents are refusing to spend that much to feed their kids? Someone needs to look into those homes.

Saw this article on CNN last week. Had to revisit this thread

Quote from the article: “Stephanie Bautista, mother of four, is grateful for the help. Without free lunches for her kids, she said, “I would have to go find something for them, or sacrifice something that I would want… for my kids to eat.”

That’s about the crux of it. Parents don’t have to make any effort, or, God forbid, forgo their Big Macs so their kids can eat. NO where in the article does it even hint at American kids starving during the summer. They hint at the possibility poor nutrition because of ignorant parents (a problem I hardly think one meal a day is going to solve,) but not starvation. They may be abused and neglected (as it states in the article) but we’re not going to address that. We’re not going to address the fact that some of thses kids are about to get evicted, along with their parents, for the 2nd time in 6 months. We’re not going to address the fact that their utilities are about to be shut off in this 100+ heatwave we’ve been experiencing for the last 6 weeks. We’re just worried about the the food. That they don’t really need, which is proven by the fact that they tend to gain “excessive weight” during the summer (See post above.)

I was going to post a picture of a child who was starving for real…but my heart broke looking at the pictures. I’ll post this one instead. This is what a starving child in America looks like.