Would impending mutual doom force Israel and Palestine to create peace?

I dunno – would it work for the US in all the wars it’s involved in right now?

I don’t know, but this might just work.

Skip to about 2:15 to hear the song. ;)

I doubt it. They seem so far apart now that they would willingly commit suicide to destroy the other.

It’s like Harry Potter and Voldemort.

nah, I think the Israelis would be arrogant enough to think their god would save them and they´d push the button anyway. The Palestinians would be too unorganised to come up with a solution they could agree on in 10 days.

I resent that. By the way, for those who know little or nothing about Israel, it’s about 75% secular.

In a way, it would. Ten days after the threat is issued and they are still fighting, peace would come immediately following the annihilation.

This is not to say that I am necessarily pro- or anti- either party here, just that I don’t see them stopping fighting until the last person there falls. They both want all the marbles.

Yeah, @zen if anyone says anything anti-israel, you´ll take offense. You´re on record accordingly.

Not anything – just what you said. Arrogant enough – and God – do not apply. I resent that. That’s all. Do you not take offense to stupid things said about your country – or perhaps you aren’t patriotic? I can think of some wild and stupid accusations. It would be easy – but useless. It’s much harder to ask a question and try to learn something.

@zen so,,, you live in Israel? Problem is, Israel isn´t a secular country.

The Israelis would think God would save them? What the fuck? Israel is full of Jews not Evangelical Christians.

Been here for years and have said it many many times. Welcome to fluther.

And, I agree with @zen we should ask the same question of other countries if we are going to ask Israel. I have a feeling most countries would want to think they can win, sound familiar, no matter what is presented in front of them as fact. The Japanese during WWII were warned or we, America, would drop the bomb. They chose to go ahead and let us drop it. So many right wingers in America talk about how we must win the wars we are in. We must win, we will win? I am still trying to figure out WTF winning is for these current wars we are fighting, and if we really will win?

Look, you can´t say that the extreme zealots wouldn´t take hold if ever there was such a serious threat. That is my point. Ultimatums bring out the extremists. I think if such such thing happened, the reasonable people, the likes of @zen would leave the country and go back to the US. I just think, with the history of the region, they would self destruct… remember, I wasn´t complimentary with the other side either… wow

@cazzie Well, if there was impending doom, I do hope the Jews get out of Dodge. I hope countries will take them in, they never have allowed all Jews to emigrate in the past. Well, about 15 years ago America seemed to be letting a lot of Russian Jews in, not exactly sure what the policy was. On their way out I hope they burn everything to the ground, leave nothing.

I was slightly offended before, but wrote it off as naivetee. But the likes of zen? And back to the USA? WTF? What are my likes? And I have visited the states – but that’s about it. Wtf are you on? Please, climb down from the tree – it’s getting really high.

@cazzie I’m not sure the very religious in Israel would believe God would save them, but I think they might believe it is worth it to die trying to save Israel. Most countries promote this type of self sacrifice, and associate honor with that attitude.

I am obviously taking a more historic viewpoint than what is intended here.

The likes of you must be taking something, that’s for sure. What does history have to do with anything – and what is historical about going “back” to a country that one doesn’t come from? Or is that like Blacks should go back to Africa?

Africans didn´t get on boats voluntarily. WTF.. how dare you compare!

I didn´t suggest the going back part… I think @JLeslie mentioned that.

Now I am confused. Blacks to Africa and Jews to Israel? Or, Zen to America? Or, what?

Me?

No.. I did mention the ´moving back to the US´.... but @JLeslie said ´get out of Dodge´ which I thought was a bit funny. There are new settlers that could move back. They go voluntarily. Not on slave ships.

I really thought Zen was American who moved to Israel… so if that offended, I am sorry. You talk about a secular country, but it just isn´t.

@cazzie Get out of Dodge because I want my people to live, but who do you mean will move back? The Arabs? How is it voluntary to be driven from your country by threat of death? And, again, then the Israelis have the problem of where to go? If you think America is just going to allow 6 million Jews in under asylum, I doubt it.

Of course you want people to live. I want people to live too. But I worry that the extremists on both sides have no clue and would sacrifice themselves and others. Idealism would take over pragmatism. It is my cynical reflection on people and politics. No one should take this personally. I like everyone who posts here… you guys know that. We have great chats and banter….. don´t misinterpret my politics.

I have a very good friend who specialises in Middle Eastern politics. She keeps reminding me to not colour things in black and white and I am grateful to her for it.

@zen do you really have that much faith in your own government? You asked me if I was patriotic… and I say YES, I am because I will stand up and say very loudly if my government is out of line. Shooting kids throwing rocks is wrong in my book.

@cazzie But, what about the idea that if they left Israel, they need to figure out where they can go? Some Israelis left very bad conditions in their original country, and so their dual citizenship if they have it, is not useful. Death fighting for Israel, hoping it will indeed result in success, fighting for ones country and freedom, truly life as we would want to live it. Otherwise not having a home. Sure people every day leave their country for a better life, but it is a horrible sacrifice to have to make in my opinion, especially when your country is where you want to be, and it is outsiders threatening your way of life.

By the way, @zen many times says when he disagrees with his government/government officials.

Some of your best friends study politics?

I shoot babies – not just kids – as long as they are holding anything bigger than a pebble.

zen out.

@cazzie I’m not angry at you by the way. Just discussing.

@cazzie Just curious do you know many Jews? Not the orthodox/observant, but the average reformed Jew? Religion does not play into their thinking all that often.

Most of my friends are atheists, but I have some Christian friends and family. It has nothing to do with nothing because the politics and actions of the Israeli Government speaks for itself. It has nothing to do with Jews and the Jewish religion but the politics in Israel is different. I really hope you can see that.

@cazzie Different than what? In the beginning you mentioned the Jews thinking God would save them. Now you are talking the religion vs the politics, which is sort of what zen and I were saying. The Israelis, the politics of the region, is separate from religion for the most part. Sure there are some religious fanatics, like in every religion, but that is a small minority.

Meanwhile, I guess going back to the original question everyone would try to fight? Around the world most people try to fight I guess? Or, at least part of the population. Many Jews did not leave Germany so fast because it seemed impossible it was happening in their country, the Jews there loved Germany, many were prosperous, and they were throughout all levels of society. It just seems people are either fight or flight, maybe in the middle is denial and disbelief.

@JLeslie No.. I never said the Jews… I said the Israelis would be arrogant enough (or the ones left in power after such a threat..).... I want to be sure that people understand that I think Jews in the world are different from the ones who chose to defend and take part in the nation that is Israel. It is different.

@zen Just in case you’re interested, I asked the question after having a conversation with a friend who goes to his favorite salon once a month where he engages in a continuing discussion, debate and argument about the Israeli-Palestine issue. He said they dissect everything, past and present but still no fruitful consensus on a future peaceful solution. I told him this is unrealistic but if only Israel and Palestine would stop talking about the PAST and just look towards the future, maybe something good might come up? But what would force them to do so?

As someone who watches from the sidelines, I yearn for a peaceful solution that will be acceptable for Palestinians and Israelis. It will be one of the greatest achievements in human history if they can pull it off.

But I’m sure it’s really a lot more complicated than what people who are not Israelis and Palestinians could ever analyze in their own lives. We don’t feel the way any of them do and we are trigger happy with our tongues sometimes. I like @qingu but not when he answers a question about this issue intelligently yet tinted with an obvious disdain for Israel. I’m sure he has his own reasons but it sure feels disturbing imo.

@cazzie But, the Jews in the world and in Israel are fairly similar statistically, religiously, and their support for Israel. When I say support, I mean wanting it to continue to be a nation, but also wanting the Palestinians to have their own country. Jews around the world (which basically means America) are around 40% self idenitifed as secular. It must be similar in Europe I would guess, and in Latin American they tend to be more religious in my experience. Of course Israelis themselves want to protect their country, the same as anyone would want to protect their own country, not for religious reasons, but for patriotic reasons and/or to protect their way of life.

I like that you pointed out being Jewish is not the same as being Israeli, except, the rest of the world very much perceives Jewish and Israeli as almost synonomous, and indeed Israelis I think feel it is a Jewish country. I know I feel it is a Jewish country, but not in the sense of religious, just in the sense of the people there are Jewish, and I, as a Jew like the idea of having a place to go when someone decides we should be enslaved or killed of again. I, however, prefer nations to not have any religious identification mixed in with government, if the world were perfect. Plus, really, who the heck am I? I do not lay down my life for Israel, I do not pay taxes in Israel, I do not contribute to improving Israeli society, my position is purely selfish in regards to have a country to go to as a plan B. No matter what I think Israel was created in the 40’s legally amd legitmately, and for that reason, even if I was not Jewish I support her, nothing to do with religion.

@mazingerz88 I yearn to hear Palestinians willing to compromise as much as the Israelis for peace. They must exist I am sure, but I don’t hear them in the media I listen to. So many Israelis, including zen, are willing to give up parts of Israel for peace, including part of Jerusalem.

Jews and Arabs lived together in peace in the Middle East for centuries and they can do so again. It is time now for compromise, time to talk. It is Springtime in the Arab world, time for a new beginning. It can be done, but not without compromise. On both sides.

Maybe. But such coercion wouldn’t, in my opinion, be fair to the Israelis.

Coercion doesn’t tend to produce lasting results.