What is the true value of a modern PhD degree?

It depends on what it’s in and what you’re going to do with it.

The PhD’s will have jobs when the MS’s are let go….

Some places it is a requirement to get an interview for a job.

Don’t know about the monetary value. I would like to earn a PhD simply for the satisfaction of doing it. Sort of like running a marathon, or completing P90X. Talk about a self esteem boost! I would like to do it before I die.

Are you asking about monetary value? If so, people with a master’s degree tend to make 150% of what people with a bachelor’s degree make, and people with a doctorate tend to make 200% of what people with a master’s degree make. But these numbers are misleading because it can vary widely depending on the field.

Some jobs just require that you have a bachelor’s or master’s degree in something, whereas others want you to have job-specific training. One general advantage of graduate degrees even in those situations, however, is that more educated people tend to start at a higher salary/position. This means that they earn more money for a longer period of time rather than having to work up to it.

Even where no specific major is called for, however, some degrees are more valuable than others. Employers are more likely to interview and hire generic candidates with degrees in philosophy or mathematics, for instance, than candidates with degrees in English or political science. There’s not enough research to say why this is, to my knowledge, though I have had employers tell me they picked my application out of the pile because they’d had luck with philosophy majors in the past being better problem-solvers than other people.

I also find the notion that academia has few opportunities to be a bit misleading. Most of my colleagues who have graduated found jobs relatively quickly (i.e., within one year of graduating). What they did not find were jobs at Harvard, Yale, or Oxford. It’s hard to get those jobs, for sure. But maybe fame and fortune aren’t everything when a pleasant and well-paying job is available? I think my fellows should quit their complaining.

I’m partly but only mildly interested in monetary value of such degrees. My interest is more of societal and collective value.

For instance, I’m sure gainfully employed PhDs make 200% of what Master’s holders make, but is more general employability reflected in those numbers? Since this recession, I’ve come across more than a few un- or underemployed PhDs.

Also, I understand the increasing ease of obtaining such degrees which surely plays a huge role in the devalue of academic credentials in general.

I’m referring to possible misinformation about higher education that we have been receiving, as students, for a long time. Even at the 4-year graduate level, there are huge discrepancies among majors regarding employability with arguably a large majority of graduates with no real skills whatsoever.

It appears that students making a concentrated effort at community colleges to learn practical skills are being employed at higher rates than even advanced degree recipients. At what point do we consider that we may have lost our grasp on the practicality of advanced degrees within a fog of vanity? It seems that so many are completing graduate degrees, getting nothing out of it, and ultimately devaluing education for everyone.

SavoirFaire, it looks like my perspective of the workplace is a different picture than you present.

Maybe because most of my exposure to the workforce has been during this recession. And in the admittedly practically based areas of engineering and manufacturing (and subsequent attempts to change careers)

I hope we can get back to a point where what you describe is the norm, soon.

I’ve had a couple of beers, so I will say what I actually think, even though it will probably put people off. Once, pursuing an advanced degree in the sciences actually meant that you would go on to do research within a university. Now, the course of most advanced degrees has been hijacked by people who want non-academic “jobs” in the private or government sectors, so that the value of these degrees is being diminished. The students pursuing graduate degrees for this purpose see them as commodities, and make demands as “clients” of the institution (often caring less about the substance of what they are learning than about their grades), instead of becoming a part of a community for the sake of furthering scientific knowledge. In a sense, the academic value of a PhD in the sciences is what it always was (although the process is likely less rigorous). But whether the “job-seeking” students can leverage it to get a high-paying position…. well, that is going to depend on the market they have created. In my opinion, most of the students seeking advanced degrees in universities to fulfill a requirement on their resumes would be far better served by one from a technical college (which would give them skills they could use). Too late for that now though… the job market has evolved to demand that specific piece of paper that it actually has little use for.

Outside of the sciences? No idea, but I would guess there is a similar trend.

To me it’s about going through more school to learn more and to do something in-depth. I’m a school kid, what can I say?

dappled_leaves, my thoughts very similarly. And my concerns exactly.

Simone_De_Beauvoir, you’re so right. What is there to life if not the pursuit of knowledge?

@blaze626 There are a couple of others things: love, justice…but not many more.

@blaze626, I just read your post above. Yeah, it seems we are in agreement. :/

I just finished my MA, and am starting my PhD in September. Though I’m technically qualified to teach at the university level, I don’t feel that my BA and MA have allowed for me to have as in-depth a knowledge of the material as I would like in order to teach.

A small part of me is doing it because, as a PhD, I’ll make a little more money than I would as an MA. But the main reason is for the education. I love to learn, and I appreciate when my teachers are well-versed in their field. I don’t feel as well-versed as I want to be, so it’s only fair to my future students to educate myself further.

@blaze626 I would agree that standard bachelor’s degrees and the like are not for everyone. The technical skills learned at a community college or vocational school, for instance, may very well be more appropriate for certain learners. At the same time, however, many vocational schools are overpriced and often fail to actually educate those who attend them. For this reason, community colleges have always seemed a superior option to me. When I was in high school, an acquaintance of mine who wanted to be an auto mechanic was deciding between a vocational school and a community college. His father—who is also an auto mechanic—insisted that he go to a community college so that he would be able to talk about more than just cars. He did that, and never regretted it.

I am not sure that people graduating from community colleges are actually more employable, though. During a recession, employers can afford to be pickier about who they hire because they have more applicants. Since employers tend to value education as an indicator of dedication and ability, a person with a bachelor’s in nursing is still more employable than a person with a nursing certificate. The problem is that too many people with higher degrees seem to think that certain jobs are below them. So while they might be employable, they won’t go where the jobs are in some cases.

It is true that someone leaving with a bachelor’s degree in English stands little to no chance of being employed as an electrician or a plumber. Yet the number of jobs like these that are available is highly variable. There are a lot of open positions where I live, but this is because I am in a college town where construction is still a booming industry and where most people are either students or advanced degree holders. Construction is virtually dead in my hometown, however, so the existing electricians and plumbers are more than enough to meet the remaining needs for their services there.

Regarding the social value of education, though, I am not sure that putting more people in college devalues education. Education is not a scarce resource insofar as the amount of education I get does not impinge on the amount of education you can get. Yes, some people get nothing out of it. That’s too bad for them, but I’m not convinced it’s too bad for me (and not just because I get paid to teach people who don’t care just as much as I get paid to teach people who do care). People who cared, paid attention, and did well in school still stand out from those who did not.

Note that I said “stand out,” not “rise to the top.” Then again, what counts as rising to the top may be relative to what one wants to get out of life.

Great points! Thank you.

I guess I meant that more people with degrees naturally pushes the professional standard higher, forcing even more people to pursue higher education to get the same jobs which bogs down the system allowing the rise of substandard institutions, so the standards for students decreases , making degrees easier to get, making more people with degrees, and so on. Kind of a vicious cycle.

Also, maybe I was trying to say that people leaving community college or vocational often have more usable skills than the guy leaving university. There are only so many jobs for academics or people with abstract problem solving and comprehension skills. There are far more opportunities for people with hard skills. Of course it would be ideal if you had both (a great reason to go to community college vs. vocational training, as you pointed out).