Why do people stereotype Womens Studies with lesbians?

Because those people are ignorant.

i have a slightly different take on it. What do you expect to do with this degree when you graduate? What kind of a job requirements will that degree satisfy. HR? Teach Women’s Studies? Are there truly enough positions available for another person in the field?

On the other hand, I can use good electrical engineers right now.. In another year my company will need manufacturing engineers, test engineers, packaging engineers, physicists, etc.(I’m sure you are noticing the trend here.)

I do not see any Womens studies factories opening up in my neighborhood that will help jump start our economy. Maybe there are and I have simply missed them. I’m a troglodyte and no doubt don’t understand things. Feel free to make me look like a jerk.
What do you expect to do with that degree in 4 years?.

Fear and dumbassery. And buttloads of privilege.

@Seelix has it in one. Some bigoted and ignorant people (including other women) think that women asserting equality = lesbianism.

Well, this is a stereotype, but I’ll go ahead and say it, because I never shy away from doing so, lesbians tend to be very vocal about women’s rights, the feminist movement, and can get heated more quickly when they observe injustice against women. Now, there are plenty of straight women who believe exactly the same as lesbians regarding these issues, but I would say generally they tend to be able to debate the issues with less emotion.

Also, the observer might have their antenna up when lesbians make these sorts of comments or work in fields related to women’s rights. Kind of like a racist who only notices when black people are reported in the news for doing a crime. They interact with black people all of the time who are not criminals, and there are plenty of white people committing crimes, but in their mind the black guy is likely to be the criminal.

Maybe in womens studies there is a higher percentage of lesbians than in the total population? Who cares, it is a stupid comment for her to make in the end. I know one woman personally who received a degree in some sort of womens studies and she is straight.

Not to mention Gloria Steinem, one of the most famous feminists of all time, was straight.

Your friend is stupid.

Look at it a different way.

I believe that it’s pretty well demonstrated (though I don’t have any evidence to point to) that courses in “Womens’ Studies” are disproportionately attended by lesbians. Certainly the courses are disproportionately attended by women compared to men (though of course some men take those courses).

But so what? It doesn’t mean that men taking those courses are homosexual (and certainly not lesbians!), and by the same token it doesn’t mean that you are a lesbian, either.

I suspect that your friend has a lingering knee-jerk reaction against lesbians (which is unfortunately fairly common). You could ask her honestly and forthrightly: “If I took the classes, would you think that I’m a lesbian?” or “Would it ‘turn me into a lesbian’ if I took those classes?”

Maybe all you need to do is get her to admit that she had an unthinking (bigoted, yes) reaction, and that even if every other woman in the class is a lesbian, it doesn’t make you one.

Or… maybe you are a closet lesbian (it’s worth considering, anyway, and brining into the discussion for her enlightenment). Would that make a difference to your friend?

You should write a paper for the class about your friend’s reaction.

Maybe it is because on too many campuses the womens studies courses are closed to men.

It’s repressed patriarchal bias which still lingers after the women suffrage movement. The fact that women are equal by law is still a tenuous guarantee of equality in practice. The bias may even be taking shelter in the fact that women are legally equal.

That and the rampant media re-enforcement of bias against women.

Burning at both ends so to speak.

She’s dumb. Moving on…......

I don’t know that they’re disproportionally attended by lesbians, especially considering the amount of random women who don’t care about the class but take it to fill some humanities requirement, but lesbian/bisexual women are forced to stop looking at things from a hetero-normative perspective and to recognize at least some of the crap they have to put up with when they are just Woman, and not Woman with Man. ::cough::And some of us take the classes because we already know all the stuff, but it’s a great way to meet other women who like women. Same as straight men who attend to meet women. ::cough:: And in general, any woman who is a feminist for even a second gets called a lesbian; it’s a smear tactic to discredit the movement.

@worriedguy Ok, first, she said an elective. Not a degree, one class. Same as taking a photography class or a pottery class when she doesn’t plan on being a photographer or potter. And most degrees require you take a certain amount of “expanding your horizons” classes – some Womens 101, some Philosophy 101, a Western Civ 101, etc. Second, quite a lot of them join non-profits or become feminist bloggers. The careers might not be as many or as profitable, but they are definitely there.

@worriedguy If you read my description you would have seen that I’m taking the course as an elective. I’m working towards my HBA in Psychology, it will be my first year.

Looked at another way (another “another way”, that is)

Most of the attendees of auto mechanic courses are men. Perhaps we can agree on that simply because we’ve seen it, because I still don’t have statistical evidence.

Even though the class attendance compared to the general population is disproportionally male, that doesn’t mean that most attendees are homosexual. But even if they were, it does not follow that the next male attendee can be assumed to be (or will turn out to be) homosexual. There’s no established cause-and-effect to say so. (It also doesn’t mean that female attendants are homosexual.)

And even if we consider, say, a course on interior design at an all-male school (just to hypothesize a bit) and assume that many of the attendees are homosexual (because it is also a pretty well accepted fact – not just a stereotypical joke – that many male interior designers are homosexual) it doesn’t follow that all of them are homosexual, and even if all of the rest are, it doesn’t necessarily follow that the next attendee will also be homosexual.

And even if they are all, each and every one of them homosexual, still, what does it matter?

“I wanted to ask my friend, “oh so you think we should be oppressed and be subordinates to men?”

Explain the logic you use to justify your suggestion that those who associate Women’s Studies with lesbianism must also believe women should be oppressed and subordinate.

@WasCy That means most auto mechanics are gay, right?!

I have a sister who’s taught women’s studies classes and she had a take on it that made sense to me. She felt it was a college class where young women not sure of their sexuality and those very sure felt safe to be, learn and share. She also noted most males attending her classes assumed she was a lesbian.

Exactly what IS “Women’s studies,” anyway?

@The_Idler Explain not getting sarcasm.

@The_Idler Just to warn you I’m very bad at articulating what I’m thinking.

Okay, when she basically told me to not take the course because it is “for lesbians”. I was offended, because I realized that she did not want to be associated with lesbians, and that she is a homophobe. (so is her boyfriend, who calls them faggots, I HATE that word). I am personally somewhat passionate about equality for all, not just women, also the LGBTQ community. You do not have to be gay to believe in gay rights, just like you don’t have to be black to hate racism. My friend not only bashed lesbians, but also the idea of the class. I forgot to mention that, she is indifferent to women’s rights. In her sheltered, bubble of a world, she thinks that women are already equal to men. This is not true. For example, women get paid less for the same job, and many men still think a women should do the laundry, and dishes etc.

Thus, this is why I wanted to bring up that quote/argument (“oh so you think we should be oppressed and be subordinates to men?”) I am not saying that “those who associate Women’s Studies with lesbianism must also believe women should be oppressed and subordinate.”. I’m saying that my friend thinks that. Not the people who think that a class=lesbianism, and all other people who have an opinion in the matter.

@desiree333 Wait, I am confused. Your friend thinks women are already equal and don’t need to make an issue about equality, or she thinks women should do dishes and be subordinate to men? I think you said both, unless I misunderstood?

If she is homophobic why do you give a damn whatt she thinks? Gay rights is important to you, and she is on the opposite end of the spectrum regarding the issue.

What is women’s studies?

@desiree333 Don’t worry, you did a perfectly good job at articulation right there.
I now understand completely.

This is not an issue then, really, with people associating the class with lesbianism, because I am sure there are a disproportionate number of lesbians taking it, as there are a disproportionate number of lesbian feminists, according to my – and apparently others’ – experiences. Therefore, simply associating the course with lesbianism is a mere generalization, rather than an inherently negative stereotype about anyone or anything.

The real issue is: why should taking a class associated with lesbianism or feminism be something to scoff at, in any way?

You live in a different world to me though, saying a course is ‘for lesbians’ doesn’t carry much weight as a criticism over here….

@JLeslie I can understand the urge @desiree333 is probably having concerning her friend. We tend to be shocked when people close to us have beliefs so dramatically different than our own, and it can be tough to maintain friendships when that happens. I’ve been there, and I’ve had to learn not to be too confrontational.

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@Dutchess_III I get the feeling you have a question…

I axed three times!!! You guys just don’t like white women, do you!

Google it.

As someone who wasted their time and money, apparently, getting two degrees in Women’s Studies, and who has been able to work in many social work fields as well as law, I can tell you there are a disproportional amount of lesbians in WS classes, as opposed to other areas of study. But so what? You learn about women across the spectrum, take classes in every field (even the sciences) and are able to learn not just from books, but from each other.

If you are getting a degree in psychology WS would be a very good minor. I cannot tell you how integral my learning has been in transforming the lives of troubled girls.

@WasCy You are probably right that this course is disproportionately attended by lesbians. I think my friend knows many homophobes who influence her to think that being gay is wrong. I know that her boyfriend is completely homophobic, like literally scared of gay people. Honestly, in the end she is not one of my good friends. I really don’t care whether or not she would think I’m a lesbian if I took the class. I’m not going to go out of my way to make her feel comfortable. Honestly, I’m not entirely sure what my orientation is, I think I’m bi. I like both sexes, but I think I need to have more experiences before I know for sure. Even if I am lesbian, or completely straight, that wouldn’t change how I feel about women’s rights. In the end, I am a woman, and regardless of who I love, I believe in my rights. I have not taken the class yet, so I don’t know much about women’s studies, but it seems interesting.

I did. Looks boring.

Then I guess you have nothing left to say.

Maybe because lesbianism is now one of the issues on the forefront of women’s studies. Women’s studies attracts people who are interested in gender studies in general, which in these days primarily revolves around homosexual rights.

I took the course a couple years back, my prof was a lesbian, as were a couple of the students. The rest were straight to my knowledge.

@desiree333 Maybe if she says it again say back, “yeah, I know a lot of lesbians take the course.”

@JLeslie I’m not really sure, she is very submissive to her boyfriend, and always feels bad asking him to do anything. I think she applies to both of what you said.

@The_Idler Exactly, I guess that there are more lesbians in women’s studies. That’s not the issue, the issue is that she seems to think it is bad to go into that class because there will be lesbians. She is also sort of a hypocrite because she has a couple of friends who are lesbians. It makes me sad to think about what she thinks about them behind their backs. You also said “You live in a different world to me though, saying a course is ‘for lesbians’ doesn’t carry much weight as a criticism over here….” I don’t think saying a course is for lesbians is a criticism either, except she generalized it. She made it sound like if I went into that class, she would assume I was a lesbian, and that that is bad. She also told me not to go into the class, so she clearly was criticizing it. It was her whole tone in the conversation.

@desiree333 Luckily she is not a close friend of yours, because your differences are some very basic beliefs and thought processes about life and equality from what I can tell. I have friends against gay marriage for instance, but none are my very close girlfriends. For sure none of my friends are hateful against gay people, or any other group. I don’t think I can be friends with someone like that. Sure know them, see them at parties whatever, but I doubt I would spend a lot of time with them.

@desiree333 Sounds like she has a lot more issues in terms of gender politics.

@desiree333 I think what she is afraid of is you will be associating with gay people, and then if she is associating with you, it is like she is ok with gay people. She probably avoids knowing and spending time with gay people, and you will become one of “them” in her mind and especially her SO’s mind.

@WasCy said what I was gonna say. So I’ll only add some stupid humor.

@JLeslie You had me at “lesbians can get heated more quickly”.

@bob_ Crap. Stop it! LOL.

Still???

I don’t know what women’s studies is either by the way…however…I’d just like to say that trying to get an education and a degree in something, anything that you’re passionate about is worth far more than just studying to get a job (e.g. engineering?) just because their are “opportunities” out there… and if that means having to come up against stereotypes then you have every bloody ounce of my support and more…I will also say though that being thought of as a lesbian aint that bad! ;-)

Okay, people, women’s studies are studies of women and gender relations – the courses include philosophy, sociology, history, policy and much more. Every college that offers a degree in women’s studies will offer some basics about the history of the women’s rights movement and will eventually lead up to queer studies (if the college is progressive) all the while reviewing patriarchy and the such. There are many queer women and people taking women’s studies because in addition to discussing feminism or the media, a women’s studies major offers a different lens through which to view society and its developments and connects to casting a critical eye upon normative institutions. This is why there will be courses to connect women’s lives and history to capitalism or to work or to advertisement or to global movements.

When I begin my PhD in Sociology this coming Fall, I will also be starting my certificate program in Women’s Studies – here are the courses for Fall 2011, you can look through them to get an idea of what we’ll be doing.

As to your friend, OP, she doesn’t come (though I might be making an assumption, here) from knowing that there are many queer women in women’s studies because all she’s ever heard of is the tired remark that feminists are lesbians which, of course, is not an insult even a little bit but people think it is. She was also making an assumption that you’re not a lesbian as well as making an assumption that you’d care whether or not those classes were for lesbians, which, btw, they’re not, they’re for everyone. I always laugh in their faces when they make these assumptions. I’d say something back like “really?! that’s fucking hot!”