Do you think restaurant have the right to ban children 6 and under from resturants?

An establishment is entitled to ban whoever it likes as long as it’s not contradictory to local equality laws. Children are generally not covered by such things. Now if they banned black kids but let white kids in, THEN they’d be breaking laws.

The best thing to do if you object to this practise is eat elsewhere and get all your friends to do the same. Even better, start a local campaign in your community (maybe start with schools or local parenting clubs) and get everyone to eat elsewhere.

It’s about time; I hope this spreads like wildfire (A restaurant in NC did the same last year). Of course it depends on the type of restuarant. And I agree with downtide.

@downtide Oh, I don’t object. I recently had an experience myself in a very adult restuarant where there were several children running around the establishment. Usually it is very quiet and that is why I chose to go there. We just had a drink and got a small snack because the waitress could hardly hear us with all the noise. It look like some sort of family gathering and we would’ve stayed and actually ordered a large meal but we had just spent the whole day traveling back home and we weren’t in any mood to have to shout our orders.

I would much rather eat in a restaurant which didn’t permit kids under 6 because so many of them are undisciplined and treat the place like a playground. Although having said that, when my daughter was young we took her out to restaurants from a very early age and so she learned very young what sort of behaviour is acceptable in a restaurant (she was not allowed to leave her seat except for a bathroom visit, for instance). I would have been mortified if my favourite restaurant had suddenly decided to ban her.

They have the right, but I think it will.drop their business.

I think that any private enterprise has the right to serve/ban whomever they want.

If these establishments think that they will increase profits by not allowing anyone under 6, no problem. If you have a 5 year old and are totally insulted by said action take your business elsewhere.

@Russell_D_SpacePoet I think the business they lose from families will be made up for by an increase in business from child-free couples who would like a child-free meal.

@downtide Thats what I think about as well. Both of my children were very well behaved whenever we went out. Even during their terrible twos. I was always complimented by waitresses on their good behavior. It even would get them free sweets from some of the establishments.
I know there are responsible parents who know to either to find a sitter or have taught their children proper manners, but many out there aren’t so responsible. It sucks that those few parents ruin it for everyone else. Maybe if they should take their names and just ban families that are disruptive and a sign can be put on the front door say that they will be asked to leave if they become disruptive.

@Russell_D_SpacePoet Maybe not being the cost of feeding a family at a restaurant can be costly and it may attract more people who want peace and quiet with their meals. I know I would go.
Oh, didn’t notice @downtide just said the same thing.

I think it’s a great idea. A lot of people have their outings ruined by unruly children. I like to know their are places who’ve recognized this.

Some restaurants do not permit jeans, or only permit dinner attire. I find the child ruling no different. It’s a private business, they have the right to choose how they make their money.

That said, I have a child that likes to eat at nice establishments. Luckily the places we go don’t frown upon him or on us for bringing him.

I completely support this even though I have 3 young kids.

I do find it interesting, however, when people go out in public and surround themselves with other humans, then complain that they can sense the presence of other humans. I am not excluding myself from this, as I have an extreme intolerance for noise. If a restaurant put a noise meter on every table and then booted you if you made too much noise, I would probably spend much more money there. This would take care of “unruly” children (aka children) and loudmouth jackasses who love to hear themselves talk.

To summarize: I would have no problem with a restaurant banning young children, loud-talking adults, or people with a chest cold.

As both a one-time waiter and a parent, I think it’s a great idea. My son was occasionally unruly at restaurants. I was mortified every time, and I would take care of the situation. As a waiter, I saw many, many parents who did NOT take care of business.

@Pandora Go back and read your details. It’s the parents that are assholes that cause the problems. Ban them.

It’s fine. There are lots of other restaurants in the sea.
@Adirondackwannabe I agree with you. But then you’d have to see exactly which parents are failing at their job, take their names and kick them out. Then you’d have to check the list every time a family came in to see if they’re on the ban list.

@Adirondackwannabe Agreed. Personally, I wish more establishments would post signs banning talking on cell phones, as that’s been more of an issue for us when we’re out as a family.

@Adirondackwannabe I looked at Pandora’s answers…that’s exactly what she said.

There are plenty of restaurants in which you can take little ones.

I think it is perfectly fine for small children to be banned from certain establishments.

I’m starting to like the idea of banned adult list.

@downtide @Pandora as with any business decision, there will be winners and losers.

@Adirondackwannabe I’d like that too!

What is wrong with this world that we have to teach adults how they’re supposed to behave, and “spank” them when they don’t?

@Dutchess_III – I submit that what is “wrong” here is that those adults are the product of a generation of parents who were scared/detached to discipline their kids and consequently those kids are now adults who don’t really have a concept of social decorum.

@dutchess III: I don’t know of any restaurants in the sea. Don’t mix your metaphors.

We built a really nice winebar with a pretty extensive menu right in the middle of a very family neighborhood in New York. We knew that our customers would have children and that’s ok because some of us do, too. Here is what I’ve noticed.
From birth, until the time the child becomes mobile, it’s fine. Bring them on in. I don’t mind your stroller if we have room for it, and if we don’t, I’ll bend over backwards to make it work.
As soon as the child becomes mobile, it’s too hard to keep them in their seat. They see the outdoor garden and want to run around in it or they see the spiral staircase and just can’t resist putting their lives in danger there. Often someone will ask if we have highchairs, and I’ll reply that no, we didn’t think them necessary when we built a bar. You can see the puzzled look on their face while they try to wrap their head around that.
Then when the child reaches about the age of six or seven, and it can be explained to them why it is important to stay at their table, these families seem to be able to come to our bar again. Every so often there is a table with younger children which seems to be able to control them, and I always make a point of telling them how well behaved their children are. Sometimes I even say it so that other families can hear it.

Sometimes when there is a screaming toddler I’ll approach the table and try to calm them myself. “Hey little buddy, what’s all this fuss about?”. It very often works, but if it doesn’t I’ll ask the parents, “Are we having a bit of a melt down? Would you like me to wrap your food and get the check?” That usually works.

What I really want to do when there’s a screaming toddler is approach the table like I’m mad about it, then take one look at the kid and change my demeanor and say, “oh my. I’m sorry. I didn’t realize your child was emotionally disturbed.”
Parents, would you be offended by that?

@breedmitch CHILL! It was tongue in cheek. Further, I didn’t “mix metaphors.” I only had one metaphor in there, but it wasn’t used the way it’s usually used. An example of mixing metaphors would be “She flipped out and hit the ceiling when she got the news.”

As to your question…of course a parent would be offended! What else would you expect? But sometimes perfectly normal kids can get out of hand. It’s the parent’s job to remove them until they’ve calmed down (I had one child that I had to remove quite often.) If I was selfish enough not to do so, I guess I’d deserve such an insult, whether it was true or not.

I think it’s dumb. While my child is well behaved in public, I know others who are not. They should just ask the unruly ones to leave. Bring them to go boxes and send the family on their way. I think it’s important for my kid to go to restaurants and stuff so she learns how to act.

I agree with @redfeather. I mean, you get to insulting your customers and word will get around. It will impact your business. Perhaps you should consider some wooden high chairs. Not only do they allow the kids to be at table level, it keeps then strapped down!

Also, I don’t get the concept of a wine bar, which is really an adult oriented thing, mixed with kids. If it’s meant to include kids, then you need to account for that and have booster seats and high chairs.

So, are they going to start carding kids now?

What happens when parents come in with a young looking eight year-old?

@hobbitsubculture What?

@Dutchess_III, @hobbitsubculture is saying what if an older kid looks too young to get in to a restaurant? What is the restaurant gonna do? Ask for proof they’re old enough to eat there?

OK. Don’t know what that has to do with anything, but OK.

@hobbitsubculture

I think what they’re really looking for are babies and toddlers. If they see a child who maybe looks 6/7/8 or whatever, I doubt they’re going to ask questions. It’s just a warning to hopefully prevent people with babies and toddlers from bringing them in.

I think it’s a great idea. After having a kid pour ketchup on my head, from the booth behind me, count me in fingers and toes.
Don’t get me wrong, I love children but if the parents doesn’t take control, somebody has to. When I see children well behaved, I tell their parents how well behaved their child/children are. But I do have a habit of having the server move me to another area, if the children are all over the place screaming. I have noticed that some parents take offense to that.

@shego Geezus Christ, what did the parents do?

Oh! He was talking about the original question! I was still thinking about @breedmitch‘s wine place!

X2 @DominicX.

@Blackberry the lady didn’t notice until I screamed. Then she said I’m sorry. I got into a heated argument with her because she didn’t care. I was really mad, she didn’t even leave the restaurant. But I managed to get her to pay to get my hair redone, and she paid for the cleaning of my shirt.

@shego OMG….what a jerk.

@Dutchess_III: it’s ok that you don’t understand the kids in a wine bar thing. We didn’t build it for you.

@breedmitch You seem to be a bit uppity. Familiar with tact? Or just make a habit of being sarcastic? Sorry, but most parents won’t take their child to what they consider a bar. The comment about saying the child was emotionally disturbed would have got you cussed at the least if it was my child.

yes I am a firm believer in restaurants having the option to ban younger children, but I believe it all depends on the type of establishment. Classier, more lounge/bar type restaurants should not have small children in them. If you want to take your children out for a meal with you, you go to a family restaurant, not an adult restaurant. That’s what babysitters are for.

I heard about this on CNN. I think NO. It’s discrimination, plan and simple.

but carnivals discriminate all the time! You must be this tall to ride.

@Schroedes13 that’s for safety though. Those little tiny people will slip out from under safety bars and plummet to their grisly demise

@redfeather keeping them out a restaurants where they can annoy me endlessly is for their safety too…jk

I just think that there is a time and place to bring kids out with you. Some restaurants can handle kids, but there are some establishments that are looking to portray an image and entice a certain clientele.

Well of course, I would never take my two year old to some fancy pants lounge, but I would take her to some other restaurants that don’t have pictures of the food on the menu and skis and washboards and weird stuff nailed on the wall. Like I said above, I think the restaurants should ask families with misbehaving children to leave. If I’m out with her and she starts losing it I ask for the check and a box because I get that what I can stand might be torture to others. I also have this thing where I kinda can’t stand kids at all but I love my kid haha. So if I’m out and a kid is being bratty I give them death glares.

My point is, @breedmitch, either it’s for families or it’s not. In your scenario “families” includes those with toddlers. Why wouldn’t you accommodate them to some small degree with high chairs and booster seats?

Because it’s a bar. And we’re happy to have children in our bar (at appropriate hours) but not if they require some sort of restrictive seating. See, you don’t get it.

No, no. No I don’t get “it.” It’s not a question of “restrictive” seating, so much as so that people don’t have to hold the toddlers on their laps while they eat, or be forced to set the little tykes down beside them, where the kid can’t see anything but the edge of the table, which causes the little ones to want to stand up to see what’s going on. Which causes bouncing around on the seat and sliding down under the table. Of course. Or…are you truly expecting eighteen-month-olds to act like the well-trained 6 year olds they’ll probably be in 4 years?

No. I’m expecting parents not to bring children who can’t sit at the table in a normal chair. Infants are another story. They don’t require a special seat.

Please. Bring your baby in in the afternoons and early evenings. Like I said I’ll bend over backwards to accommodate your stroller. We’ve watched you go through your whole pregnancy and now we want to get to see the little one. And we want to celebrate with you, now that you can have a glass again!

As soon as you have trouble keeping the kids controlled (and quiet) it’s time for you to stop bringing them. See we don’t have highchairs because we are a bar. Get a sitter and enjoy a night out and away from them. I recently was at another establishment where there was a family with a child (probably 3 years old) who was beyond fussy. The man at the table of two next to them leaned over and said, “You know, we got a sitter tonight so we could enjoy a night out. Maybe you should have, too.” I love it when the customers police themselves.

Then when the kids get to be about 6 or 7 and can control themselves, bring them back. (again at appropriate hours) We’ve got some killer mac and cheese on the menu.

I’m pretty sure I said all of this (somewhat) in my first post.

You’re the one who said, “it’s either for families or it isn’t” and that’s just too simplistic.

@breedmitch I completely get it. I was raised in a bar. We allow children to come in and enjoy a lunch or a game with their parents…but kids have no place being in a bar after dinner time. I know first hand ;)

@SpatzieLover gets it.

I understand the certain hours thing. We have bars around here that serve lunch. They also have high chairs that are put away, out of sight, after 6:00 p.m. or so.

It sounds to me like you’re talking out of both sides of your mouth @breedmitch. Either kids are allowed, or they aren’t. Either it’s a family establishment (as you said in your earlier post) or it’s not. If kids sort of are and sort of aren’t allowed, In your advertising you need to specify what ages are allowed. In your scenario, that could get awfully complicated.

How long have you been in business? Not long, would be my guess.

You would be wrong.

And a screaming toddler would upset people at lunch, too.
You don’t get it.

OK, @breedmitch. I get it. You aren’t a family establishment, as you suggested in the beginning. You run a BAR. Mostly for grown ups. How long now? Six months?

@Dutchess_III We’ve had our family biz for over 30yrs. Most people with small kids prefer to leave them home after a certain time of night. Also, why expose a kid to a bar type situation after lunch or an early supper?

@breedmitch so you only allow some children into your bar? How is that not the same as just barring all children?

Dutch cat: We’ve been open almost three years now. And almost a million dollars in sales last year. Not bad for a place that only seats about 40. But how good of you to be worried for my business.~

@Schroedes13: No. We don’t bar any children from our bar. Nowhere in this thread do I state that any child of any age is not allowed in. We just assume that our very hip and educated crowd gets it. And for the most part, they do.

My bar is in Brooklyn, where more of our mommies have tattoos than don’t.

@breedmitch You state “As soon as you have trouble keeping the kids controlled (and quiet) it’s time for you to stop bringing them.” Just wondering if you can clarify this.

@breedmitch,...So you advertise yourself as a bar. Not a “family establishment”, as you suggested above, correct? And what do tattoos on mommies have anything to do with anything?

i never said family establishment. Your use of quotes would seem that you are quoting me. (English teacher, huh?) Can you show me where above I said those words together. We are a bar. There is no law baring children from a place that serves food, so we don’t.

@Schroedes13: ”...it’s time for you to stop bringing them.” It’s about being sensitive enough, and self aware enough, and having enough personal responsibility as a parent to know better than to bring your toddler into a bar. As the guy who runs the show, I’m not going to tell you you can’t, I expect you as an educated customer to know better.

The tattoos mean they get it.

Ok you two, I’m putting you two at time out. Play nice.

She doesn’t get it.

I get it. My kid was a terror in restaurants from the time he could walk until about 4 or 5. I either didn’t take him, or I expected to leave early (or go have a “talk” with him in the bathroom, should the need arise).

When I was waiting tables, I saw many parents who didn’t “get” it. Even when their kids were relatively well-behaved, they required more attention and work than my non-childrened tables. And often didn’t tip in proportion to the extra attention required.

And yes, it is discrimination. Sometimes, discrimination is okay.

Poser gets it.

I get it. I kept thinking you had some sort of “special” establishment, but you just have a bar. Perhaps a really nice one, but just a bar, none the less, and everyone knows bar rules. Kids can come in during the day and have lunch with their folks, but they aren’t allowed at night when people are getting drunk. No bar that I’ve ever heard of has ever had a high chair or booster seats available, so the people who give you a puzzled look when you tell them that obviously aren’t of the “high intellect” tattooed crowd you try to attract. Unless you’re somehow suggesting in some way to them that you are something more than just a bar.

I know what it takes to deal with kids, @breedmitch. The scariest time in my life was taking my two-year old (now 26) on a 6 hour plane ride….she could be volatile and fussy. I was really worried, but I couldn’t very well leave her at home. It took every ounce of energy I had to keep the reins gently in on her….and it worked. At the end of all 4 flights (two connecting each way) someone on each flight made a point of telling me that I did a very good job. I collapsed in exhaustion myself afterward, though! That’s what most people don’t get…kids take a LOT of WORK. Too many parents don’t want to work that hard. They just want to sit on their butts and try to make the kids obey voice commands.

I’m all for certain restaurants banning children. I could NOT take the above child to anything more than a fast food place, period. She’d blow a gasket after more than 15 minutes in a high chair. However, I didn’t need a sign or a rule to tell me the obvious.

It’s a bar.
It is special.
We aren’t open for lunch.

….So your patrons bring the children for dinner? To your bar? And expect you to have a high chair??

We don’t serve dinner. We serve food.

It’s 7:15 in Brooklyn right now. Upstairs in the bar there is the sweetest couple with their 15month old, Alice. And out back in the garden is another couple who just gave birth a few weeks ago to Thomas. What a full head of black hair he has!
Neither asked me for a highchair. (certainly not the newborn’s family.)

The reason I say you don’t get it, is because you said you don’t get it.

I said that when I couldn’t quite figure out if you were a bar or some sort of fine dining establishment that served special wine and welcomed children, but didn’t provide any amenities for them. However, I figured it out. You’re just a bar. OK. You’re a fine bar. A fine bar that caters to mommies with tattoos. And serves killer Mac and Cheese for the kids. But just like any other bar, if parents want to hang out in a bar with their kids, they can, as long as they aren’t pouring wine into the baby bottles. No mystery there.

Anyone with half a brain wouldn’t ask for a high chair in a bar. Duh.

I think you may have just gotten it!
And the Mac and Cheese is for everyone!!

Did Alice’s parents ask you for a high chair? You just said they didn’t. But you just go tell them whatever you think will bring them back in again.

I posted earlier that neither asked me for a highchair. I’m starting to believe you aren’t even reading these posts!

7:45: Little Alice, who had been happily sitting in her stroller, made two fussy sounds and the parents asked for the check. Looks like my patrons are pretty special, too.

Yeah. I read that neither had asked you for a high chair, so I couldn’t figure out why you would say “I’ll go tell Alice’s parents you think they have less than half a brain…”

I misread your line as “would ask for” instead of “wouldn’t ask for”.
Once I realized my mistake I also realized you had gotten it! So I changed my post.
Alice says, “hi”.

Next time you’re in Brooklyn, you should come by. Just don’t bring that kid in your avitar. Or that dog. God, we hate dogs!

What’s the name of the joint?

Search around Fluther. You’ll find it.

Hmm. You’re telling a potential customer to figure it out for themselves?

I’ll post the name right after you post your address.

@breedmitch I think the part that changed for me was when you stopped calling yourself a wine bar and just a bar. I’ve always thought of wine bars as a much classier establishment!

Schroedes13 doesn’t get it. ~

guess not….sorry! I haven’t been to Brooklyn, but you’ve peaked my interest. If I’m ever there, I’ll most definitely check it out!

If only he’ll tell us where it is! I know 2, 3 people who’d like to go.

Aprilisimmel has been here. So has Simone De and Jean Paul. And Shockvalue. Auggie keeps threatening to come…

my address? right now I’m living in China and I actually don’t know my address, however my home address is 615 Weston Road, Pembroke, Ontario. Do you need a postal code?

@Schroedes13 :) I don’t understand why he didn’t just post the name. Free advertising.

We’re not supposed to self promote.

This is a joke now.

Too bad it’s not funny. Yawwwwwwwwn.

@breedmitch By representing the business the way you have , you are promoting it. You said it is special. Sounds like promotion to me. If I had a business I was proud of and someone asked the name I would sure give it. If you are worried about infringing on the rules you could pm Dutchess the name so her interested friends could check it out. I guess you didn’t promote it to Simone? She just happened to show up at your bar?

She was invited because she gets it.

So only people who get your business may come? wow

[mod says] I realize this is in Social, but we’ve gotten pretty off-track, here. Let’s try to get back on it, please.

Such a kerfuffle. As many have said above, of course they have the right to ban persons that will potentially disrupt their business and drive customers away. There are many many many restaurants, if I don’t agree with a policy that one has, I go somewhere else. Eating in a restaurant is not a right it’s a privilege.

And FWIW, I understand why a certain restaurant owner here doesn’t want to give out the name on this thread to people who have already expressed upset with how he runs it.

I’m not upset with how he runs it. I just couldn’t figure out exactly what it was. But now I know and I’d like to visit cuz I’m hungry. Sans kids n dogs, of course. He really should tell us the name!

If they are going to ban young children, why not the dipshits with the Mission Impossible ringtone on their cellphone set at high volume. You know, the ones who talk super loud about their TPS report or aunt Nancy’s bowl movements for 5 minutes or longer while I’m trying to eat my salad. that’s more annoying imo

Why do the well-behaved, considerate people need to suffer because some stoopid people have no manners? My kids are well behaved. I’ll take my money elsewhere. Thank you.

I just wonder whether all the parents who say that they take their well-behaved kids out with them to restaurants ever get a babysitter and just go out by themselves?

@Schroedes13 Rarely. Babysitters are hard to find for some. But like I said, I raised my children right. If they misbehave, they go outside with either mom or dad and wait for doggy bags.

But the point is, sometimes you just want to get away from kids altogether and have a quiet night out!

And the point is, people on their cell phones are just as loud. You can’t escape noise. You need to learn to ignore it and enjoy your company. =)

I would like to add, being a parent, you learn to ignore bad behaved kids. We look at those kids and thank the lucky stars and laugh because we don’t have to deal with it.

So couldn’t we just ban cell phones too?

That would be nice. I’ll admit, I never took my children to the nicest restaurants. That I can understand. We were lucky enough to visit the nice restaurants once a year on our anniversary. Those are the occasions we could afford a babysitter. The clumsy waiters and drunks in the oyster bar are the ones who ruined the night for us. ;)

I just think it’s the responsibility of the restaurant do stifle any disturbances. Some people just aren’t smart enough to do it themselves.

Exactly. It doesn’t always take a toddler to make a disturbance. There’s always something or someone to make some noise. I just think it’s silly to single out just one.

I know of a few restaurants that ban cell phone usage, but have never seen one that bans kids. I do think it’s their right to do so, but it would bum me out. My kids were always well behaved in restaurants. Well, almost always. When they weren’t, we dealt with it outside.

@Schroedes13 I would have loved the chance to find a babysitter and go for a quiet night out with just my partner but we had no family living locally, and professional babysitters we could trust (and afford) were hard to find. We did get some chances though, my in-laws would take our baby for a “holiday” a couple of weeks a year. They live by the sea and she enjoyed it so much she was still visiting them for holidays up until she was about 15.

Ya some of my best memories are being “given” over to my older siblings to take for a weekend or a trip! Great times were had by all!

@jonsblond For one thing, you can’t tell by looking at a person what kind of ringer they have on their phone, or if they’re rude. You can tell a kid who is 6 and under just by looking at them. And I would think that any restaurant that forbids children under 6 would certainly tell the rude ringer dude to chill or leave once they find out.

I’ve been thinking more about this question…it just never occurred to me to take my children to an upscale restaurant when they were little. Why would I even want to? All they ever wanted were chicken strips and burritos! What could they possibly gain from such exposure at that age?

All they ever wanted were chicken strips and burritos! What could they possibly gain from such exposure at that age?

By the age of 6, I had been to countless fine dining establishments. For that reason, I never ate chicken strips or any other crappy “kid” food. I was told that if I didn’t behave at said restaurant, I could be taken to “McDonald’s where the ill-behaved children went to act like monkeys”.

Do you have any names you could give of the restaurants your parents took you to @SpatzieLover?

@SpatzieLover same here. I was an only child and always around adults. Maybe that had something to do with it. I knew how to sit still and behave in nice restaurants.

@Dutchess_III I can name them…but due to the chains moving into (over the past 15yrs especially) our area the supper clubs, and many of the fine dining places I went to as a kid are long gone :(. Luckily we have a great influx of chef’s in our area now that are beginning a revitilization.

@redfeather For me, experiencing fine food definitely shaped the way I eat, even in my adulthood. I prefer to experience my food, not just eat it or inhale it.

I just thought of something…I didn’t take my kids into upper scaled dining establishments when they were 6 and under because…I was becoming a (poor) single mom right about then! Shoot. We didn’t even have the money to go to Mickey D’s. Now I’m kind of wondering….would I have? I don’t know. To me, fine dining = date. Parent’s night out. I’m trying to think…We went to Red Lobster a couple of times before we split. I guess that’s about the finest dining I can imagine taking a kid to. And the same rules of manners held there as they did at McDonalds or any place else.

But all in all…I read the article in the details. The guy opened the restaurant 9 years ago, and he said the kids are just getting worse and worse every year but ”...lastly he blames parents, who “act like we’re the ones being offensive” when staff members ask them to calm their children down.’ That sounds about right for this country now, doesn’t it.

Teachers have been seeing it coming on since the 70’s.