Was this retaliation justified?

Absolutely not! There is a reason we have a justice system in place… Its not up to us to take criminal punishment into our own hands. Regardless of the fact that the man in the story committed a crime, the woman ALSO committed a crime.

Imagine that the tables were turned and the robber was a female and the owner a male…. I doubt anyone would be asking if this were justified then…

The double standard that exists on rape against males is upsetting….

No. We can’t all turn into vigilantes and dole out our own form of justice. We have laws that have to protect the innocent as well as the criminals.

Sounds fine to me, if anything it wants to make me rob a hair salon my self.

This case may be dismissed in favor of the robber.

Without notifying the police, as they should have, they kept the robber as a hostage. This is false imprisonment and kidnapping.

Under the assumption that the story is real: no, this retaliation was not justified. The salon owner had every right to defend herself, even to the point of subduing and restraining her attacker. From that point on, however, the owner’s actions were mistaken. She should have called the police and let them take care of the rest.

If this woman were part of my dojo, I guarantee she’d be stripped of rank and dismissed from the school. Her actions do not show the discipline or judgment that students of a martial art are expected to have in order to qualify for black belt. For that reason, I find them all the more appalling.

@john65pennington : The point of the Q has to do with whether or not one believes her actions were justified, not how this would go as a legal case.

No it is not justified in the legal sense but justified if the biblical justification “an eye for an eye” or in this case, “viagra sex slavery for a robbery” is applied.

So, @mazingerz88 , do you personally think it was justified? (Your answer is more definition than opinion.)

@JilltheTooth No it is not justified.

Well, gee, I don’t think it was justified..

Clearly it wasn’t, they seem like sick buggers in fact. Keeping a guy as a gimp, wtf!

Shit, if the robber were a woman and the salon owner were a man, nobody would think this was okay at all. Hypocritical much?

@Mariah I was thinking the same thing

Not justified.

And they wouldn’t need to feed me Viagra, either.

Shit no. It’s unjustifiied, creepy and freakish IMO. I’ve never understood rape or over-powering anyone in any sense. Women doing it to men is just as sick and twisted as men doing it to women.

Unjustified and unlikely.

Jillthetooth, I just assumed, by my answer, that it would be no.

Unjustified and legal action could go hand in hand in this case.

No. But then, I am in favor of the “Justice of Lycurgus” approach to such matters.

Raping someone because they tried to rob you? Always a no. Beat the shit out of someone? Sure.

The whole bit seems contrived. You can’t rape the willing in that, just because you manage to force Viagra down someone’s throat doesn’t mean you get wood uncontrollably because of the pill. It doesn’t work that way. If it was a true story, then the woman was a turn on for the captive guy and he was getting off on it. I call bullshit.

@woodcutter I would think it’s still possible to be turned on by someone, but to also not want to have sex with her; in this way, I think women are capable of rape. That’s not to say that I believe this particular story is true, but I do think it could be…

Dear god, no. How anyone could think otherwise is completely beyond me.
Then again, I thought Lorena Bobbitt took thinks a little far and I was the only one in my Philosophy class who thought that.

This black belt rapist, I mean it just doesn’t add up in that she had no way of knowing if she wasn’t pumping herself with all kinds of STD’s while on this fuck rage and what of the supposed lessen this guy was supposedly going to take away from this- Rob a salon and get guaranteed pussy for a couple days? This looks like a porno plot if I have ever seen one and trust me I’ve seen a…LOT of porn. I do like her concern for her “date” that she got him a new pair of jeans when she was finished. Looks a win / win if ever there was one. It’s a nice gesture to get new pants from a woman. Those wild and crazy Ruskies…Da!

What a capital punishment!

What the salon owner did was far worse than what the robber did. I hope he gets a slap on the wrist, and she gets serious prison time. How in her mind does it work out that sex slavery is equivalent to theft?

It really sounds like the contrived plot of a Grade B porno.

But I’ll bring the popcorn.

Cue porn music intro http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNcskHlvc2c

Here is what you need to know about porn.

It always amuses me when people bring up mandatory punishment. For those who don’t understand, that is when a woman who steals powdered milk to feed her baby gets the same amount of jail time as the person who steals powdered milk to cut heroin. It’s ridiculous. A man raping a woman IS NOT the same thing as a woman “raping” a man. If you think it is the same, you must see the rest of the world in similarly polaric fashion; also, if you think it is the same, I advise you to watch a woman being raped by a man, and then view a man being raped by a woman. You will find that the difference is fucking ENORMOUS.

Perhaps the woman had been traumatized by a man sexually at some point in her life…and this poor fool was just the person she snapped on.

May I reiterate that the “defendant” was a young, beautiful woman, and that the man said afterward that he had “learned his lesson” ((wink, wink!))? Yeah, I am so sure he was traumatized by this.

What I’m curious about is how people would react if there was no rape involved for those of you who are unsure, unwanted sexual intercourse is rape, just to be clear and this woman had just taken this man and tied him up, kept him in the backroom for three days, and denied him food and water. How would all of you who think this man deserved or liked it feel about that?

Also, I don’t think she should get off scott-free if she was assaulted in the past. When I was 13, I was in a pretty bad car accident wherein someone ran me over and I almost lost my foot. This does mean I’m entitled to run over the next pedestrian who pisses me off just because this awful thing happened to me and I feel the consequences and repercussions to this day.

@KatawaGrey I would feel the same way if she had not raped him. She was justified in stopping him and holding him until the police were called and had arrived, but again, we do not live in a vigilante society. It is not an eye for an eye in our country.

@woodcutter Note that the question explicitly asks us not to quibble about whether or not the story is accurate. It was asked hypothetically.

@Ladymia69 May I inquire in regard to your opinions on kidnapping and false imprisonment? It seems the male was restrained,tied(?) for some few days. Perhaps this and it pains should also be considered?

@KatawaGrey Again, you are taking two completely different cases and treating them with the same mandatory punishment. What is wrong with people that they cannot see different situations DIFFERENTLY??!

@throssog This man was about to rob a bunch of women at a beauty parlor with a gun. Are you insinuating he had better things to do during the time he was “kidnapped” and raped by a beautiful woman? Perfecting his piano concertos, maybe? Or polishing his doctorate in English literature?

@chyna You may be musing about how this country is not vengeful, but you would be wrong. Its citizens enact vigilante justice every day. What do you expect from a country who systematically killed and extinguished hundreds of thousands of the former inhabitants of this land so they could have it for themselves?

Anyway, this case didn’t happen in this country. Did you read the article?

@Ladymia69 No, I am, however, claiming that the response of the female would have been considered completely without redeeming value or satisfactory explanation had she been a male, i.e., gender roles reversed. No matter what the perp had tried to do. Double standards are double standards…or are they? Hmmm?

It is always amusing to me when people who haven’t been through rape, violent robbery, or anything like it get up on their soapbox and rant about how wrong it is for someone who has to take justice in his/her own hands, especially in a country like America, which is constantly failing victims of violent crime, and falsely imprisoning.

@Ladymia69 Yes I read it. Did you? You seem to be making up the story as you go. Perhaps she was raped before? Anyway, I’m done with this thread. You are ranting and not making sense.

@chyna Do you not understand how the situation would have been different if she was a male and the robber was female? Do I really need to explain it to you? Have you ever been raped violently? Well, I have, and I assure you you have no place in saying it is the same thing unless you have been in that situation. I refuse to listen to you or anyone else spout this inane argument any further.

@Ladymia69 Ah, did the “Native Americans” you refer to not dis[place others who came before them? I guess they just asked them , politely, to leave? Hmmm, nice bit of historical re-visioning – my compliments.

@throssog Are you shitting me? The people who came before them? Who are they? Did you just make them up? The only “people” here before the Native Americans were the Caucasoids, who died out long before the Natives traveled over the Bering Strait.

@Ladymia69 Rape is rape – no matter who commits it, imho and I , for one, will never endorse it. Not for any reason or as an act committed against anyone. Provocation? There can be no just provocation for such – on this I will take a stand. No, I have never been raped. I have, however, had to deal with it and deal with the participants and the victims. I do know some small amount about it in an immediate and field context.

@throssog which leads me to believe that you would feel wholly different about this if you had been, and you wouldn’t be so quick to get up on your soapbox and howl about the injustice being the same for the reverse situation. This is why we have masses of leaders in this country making laws that are ridiculous owing to the fact that they know nothing about terrible atrocities that humans commit upon each other every day in this country.

The more I visit Fluther the more I see incredible feats of self-indignation, forced political correctness, and massive group-bullying and finger-pointing. This happens most often when the people doing these things have no idea what the hell they are talking about. Hence, I am moving out of this thread. Get back to me once you experience something horrible and terrible at the hands of a man. then we’ll talk.

@Ladymia69: Interestingly enough, I spoke to a friend of mine who was continuously molested when she was a child by a relative of hers and I think we can all agree that continued rape of a child is worse than an adult being raped and she agreed with me. I think you are just a vengeful, angry person. It is a horrible thing that happened to you, but how do you know it was not retaliation for something that happened to the man who did it to you? Also, why do you deserve to exact your own vengeance for this horrible thing that happened to you, but I don’t deserve vengeance for something horrible that happened to me? You also claim that a woman raping a man is nowhere near as bad as a man raping a woman, and then you get on @throssog‘s case because they have never been raped so they don’t what it’s like. How do you know what it’s like to be a man and be raped by a woman?

This man did not deserve to be tortured any more than you did, but you are assigning fictitious blame to him because he is male. What if both the robber and the salon owner had been female? Would you say the female robber deserved to be raped by another woman because that woman tried to intimidate a whole salon full of women?

Just because something bad happened to you doesn’t mean you get to do something bad to someone else. In this instance “an eye for an eye” really does make the whole world blind.

@KatawaGrey I think you are completely naive and inexperienced. For you to say one person’s experience is worse than another’s is laughable, seeing as you have no experience of any kind to base it on. In fact, I am laughing right now.

@Ladymia69: Oh, so you’re saying that your experience was as bad as a child who was continuously raped for years? Gotcha.

@Ladymia69 You are one of those people who thinks your experience is much worse than anyone else’s on the planet. It isn’t. You have no idea what anyone on here has gone through. Maybe you need to seek counseling for your pity party you giving yourself and your tirades to others for no reason.

@Ladymia69 I find that it is never wise to laugh at another s suffering. Even if that suffering be “only” by empathy. Have you, Ladymia69, ever been in combat? Been a prisoner of war, yet without ‘rights’? Ever been in a life and death struggle against overwhelming odds? There are many areas that few of us have ever had experience in – empathy and sympathy come to0 our aid in helping us try to comprehend them and their sufferers. No ones pain is laughable, imho.

Vengeance had always been a part of the human fabric. The eye of an eye thinking. In this case, I think she over did it because for all we know, he was just after money and good. If she had held him for and couple of hours with a hair dryer on hi temp. directed at is groin I think he would have gotten the point, or she could have slathered his groin with acetone, he really would have gotten the point. it he had tried to sexually assault her then maybe payback like that would equal the offence in my book. Hen it never said how she abuse him sexually. If she rode him hard and put him away wet, he must have been a half way handsome thief, I could not see her going through all of that if he looked like Willy Lump Lump. I read that soon after Apartheid fell one region of South Africa was ramped with rapes. The people of the area came up with a solution that any an caught for rape would have to first run a gauntlet of the village or town women, who wanted to participate, welding rods clubs, canes, etc. If he kept to his feet and made it through he got a trial. If somehow he perished before getting through the gauntlet, oh well. It let any would be rapist know what await them if they tried and were caught. I thought that more effective than sitting in a cell for 20 years. Pain has ways of getting one’s attention.

@Hypocrisy_Central Hmmmm, well, I cannot endorse your concepts and I must beg to differ with you about the “eye for an eye” tradition. It was a setting of the maximum penalty for an offense against another. The Jewish Law always tried to find a way out of maximum penalties. Thus was a Rabbi once able to stop a stoning-to-death of a woman taken in adultery. There wasn’t a “righteous man” present and there were not two witnesses who were righteous who would condemn her. But , as it is said: That is another story, eh? :)
Torture can never be right and the infliction upon another of that we would not want inflicted upon our selves cannot be right either,imho.