Would you consider a family of fox on your property a good thing? Why?
Asked by
LuckyGuy (
43880
)
July 21st, 2011
(NSF Squeamish) If you are squeamish or from PETA look away now. OK?
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I live in a semi-rural area a couple of hundred feet from a state park and share my property with a lot critters: mice, rabbits, chipmunks, squirrels, raccoon, deer, coyote. Some kind people from the suburbs, who are plagued by these same animals, trap them at their homes and, illegally, release them in my neighborhood where they reproduce and wreak havoc. I regularly set out traps for the critters that get into my barn where they chew wires, destroy car interiors, chew hoses. and generally make a mess. Each day I toss the bodies in a certain spot and, without fail, by the next morning they are gone without a trace. I figure I was recycling. I set up a deer camera and discovered it was a red fox family cleaning up every night. Nice.
My neighbor recently told me they had trapped (and eliminated) 6 fox this past month. They consider the fox pests and a threat to their small dogs and grandchildren. I was shocked and said nothing. I consider them gorgeous, graceful, magical creatures of the night, but I have no small pets or grandchildren.
Ignoring the legality of the trapping, what do you think of fox on your property? Are they dangerous? Would you eliminate them?
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42 Answers
They would be dangerous to cats or small dogs. I would be happy to have them otherwise.
@marinelife
Foxes are not dangerous to cats or dogs; they are about the size of a cat!
@worriedguy
I would be thrilled to have a fox family on my property, as you might guess from my avatar. One of my life goals is to see a red fox in the wild (we don’t have them in San Diego) and I plan on doing whatever I can to make our Washington property hospitable to foxes when we move up there this fall.
Foxes are harmless to people and carnivorous pets, and proper management will keep them away from the bunnies and the chickens. Killing them means more of those mice and rats you mention, and they are a far greater threat than foxes.
I agree with @crisw – they’re a danger to the rodents on your property that you don’t want anyway. They are not going to take down a dog or cat! Your instincts are right on this one.
Oh, I’d LOVE to have a fox family nearby! They take care of the rodent population and are not usually aggressive. In fact, I have heard of people keeping foxes as pets. There are even a few videos on Youtube of fox pets. I don’t know that keeping them as pets is a great idea, but I guess if the fox seems happy, then so be it. I’ve also heard of people having pet raccoons… so I guess it all depends on the animal’s temperament and if it’s humans treat it and feed it properly.
I think they are beautiful and clever. It breaks my heart the my neighbor did that. The tree line is about 250 feet from my kitchen window. When I am sitting at my kitchen table I can stand up and the fox will be spooked. Besides having acute vision, apparently they can also see in the infrared region. I have a trail camera set up with 0 Lux, infrared flash capability. Once the passive sensor picks up motion it begins taking pictures every 5 seconds unitl it takes 5 shots then turn off. I cannot see the flash. But the fox will respond by jumping or twitching every 5 seconds.
I will continue to put the critter bodies out there daily and hopefully a few fox will stay on my property.
By the way, my neighbor eliminated the coyote population a few years back and we were overrun with deer. The state recently released more.
I wouldn’t mind having foxes around. In fact I probably do have fox around.
I had to look up the proper plural form of fox. Apparently either way is correct.
My grandma kept a fox for a while when I was a kid. It had been orphaned and injured and she was given it to rehabilitate. Her (fox) name was Cindy.
There are fox in my neighborhood too.They do serve a purpose.
If my cats were outdoor cats,or if my dog was a toy breed,I would have reason to worry.
Well they can bring diseases thats for sure.But apart from that most dogs are than foxes.
@crisw Foxes are quite a bit larger than cats. The red fox: “On average, adults measure 35–50 cm (14–20 in) high at the shoulder and 49–90 cm (19–35 in) in body length with tails measuring 53–60 cm (21–24 in). They weigh 2.2–10 kg (5–22 lbs), with vixens typically weighing 15–20% less than males.”
Whereas, the cat: “Domestic cats are similar in size to the other members of the genus Felis, typically weighing between 4 kilograms (8 lb 13 oz) and 5 kilograms (11 lb 0 oz). Cats average about 23–25 centimeters (9–10 in) in height and 46 centimeters (18.1 in) in head/body length (males being larger than females), with tails averaging 30 centimeters (11.8 in) in length.”
Wikipedia
They are quite prevalent in Virginia (where I lived until recently), and we saw them often.
I also believe that you are wrong about foxes not killing pets. It is not their preferred food, but they will do it. “Red Foxes will eat carrion (previously dead animals) and will occasionally kill someone’s pet dog or cat.” Source
I would love to have a family of foxes if I could really pull it off without inconveniencing anybody. Here’s one interesting family of foxes.
<—- Fox drinking water out of a coffee can. It is slightly bigger than a cat.
I live in an apartment right now. So I’ll answer as if I lived back at my parents’ place.
We sure as hell could use the help with pest control on our yard. Foxes are known for eating all of the animals we see there—rabbits, mice, snakes, lizards, and scorpions. And on a personal level, I find foxes to be fucking awesome, and I would love to see some trot around our yard.
But the house is in a fairly rural area (as far as Southern California goes), and we have 4 acres. I’d answer differently if I were in suburbia. Though, if I was in suburbia, I would not go so far as to illegally trap and remove them.
@rOs
Makes me think of the Indigo Girls song “Deconstruction”-
“A family of foxes came to my yard and dug in
I looked in a book to see what this could possibly mean”
@marinelife
A 22-pound fox would be a monster outlier. While foxes look large, they are built like a whippet or Italian greyhound- very, very thin and muscular under all that fur. A study looking at hundreds of foxes found US foxes to weigh in at an average of 3.6–5.3 kg, or around 8–11 pounds. I stand by my assessment.
As far as danger to pets, while the “foxes may eat cats” factoid shows up in numerous places, there is very, very little documentation of it being true. Here is a long article on the subject. It concerns British foxes, which are larger than those in the US. Note, for example, that a survey of British cat owners found that only 9 of the 6,143 respondents believed that a cat of theirs had been killed by a fox. As biologist David MacDonald, who has studied urban foxes and their interactions with other animals for decades, says, “both species are numerous in towns and active nightly in the same gardens, where they meet continually. If foxes in general were a serious threat to cats the losses would be huge.” Another urban fox biologist, Dr. Stephen Harris, notes “As for cats – well, I have witnessed many encounters between foxes and cats. The cats win every time, since the foxes are reluctant to risk injury when faced with such a powerful foe.”
To the people who are referring to more than one fox, and still using the word “fox,” I believe (although it’s possible I am wrong) that the plural of fox is “foxes.”
@jca
It’s a very common etymological practice among certain groups- especially hunters and trappers- to refer to plural animals with a singular name (such as “I saw six bear yesterday.”). I am not sure why this is; I will have to do some research on it!
@crisw I live in the Washington DC area which, outside the city itself, quickly becomes very rural/forested/hilly. I was playing golf one day at a forest-y golf course, and I stopped short when I saw a beautiful fox (much larger than a kitty cat, btw) standing atop a stone wall. A young deer was standing next to the wall. The two were practically nose-to-nose sniffing each other. It was adorable.
@jca
What I can find so far-
From Wikipedia -“As a general rule, game or other animals are often referred to in the singular for the plural in a sporting context: “He shot six brace of pheasant”, “Carruthers bagged a dozen tiger last year”, whereas in another context such as zoology or tourism the regular plural would be used.”
Here’s a short article on the issue. The blogger mentions the same phenomenon but doesn’t know a reason for it.
This sounds like a great question for A Way With Words!
@crisw Foxes are quite a bit larger than cats. If you had ever seen one in the wild, you would know that. I have seen many.
Also, I said that it would be unlikely for them to kill a cat, but if they were living on your property, which was the original question, it would not be advisable to let the cat outside.
Aw shucks @rOs . You are too kind.
<—Here is a picture of the fox taken with IR light. That is a coffee can on the ground. Definitetly bigger than a cat.
@marinelife
Not sure why you’re sticking on this…
I explained why foxes look much larger than cats. They are taller, but they are very light. Kind of like a greyhound may weigh the same as a bulldog, but the bulldog looks much smaller. Foxes are not much heavier than a cat. I also presented some real data on fox-cat interactions. I stick by the statement that foxes are not normally aggressive to cats.
And, if you prefer video, here are the videos I found for the first two pages when searching for “fox cat” on YouTube that involved red fox/cat interactions, plus some more from linked pages-
Here’s one.
Here’s another.
Here’s another.
Yet another.
Another.
And another.
And another.
Another.
Another.
More.
And more.
More.
More.
Still more.
Even more.
Still more.
And more.
Yet more.
But wait, there’s more!
And lastly.
I watched all of these videos. In only the very last one was there any behavior that could be perceived as any type of predatory aggression towards the cat- and I am not sure in that case; the fox may have just been defending himself. In all of the other videos, the cats ranged from blase to aggressive to friendly to the foxes. If anything, the cats were a danger to the foxes, not the other way round!
Thank you for posting these, @crisw.
@crisw I am sticking? Foxes don’t “look much larger than cats”; they are much larger than cats. A cat could walk under a fox’s belly. They are 14— 20 inches high at the shoulder compared to 10 inches maximum for a cat. They are 19–35 inches long in body length compared to a maximum of 18.1 inches for a cat. Larger means larger not weight. Just because foxes have light bones doesn’t mean they appear to be the same size as a cat. They are, plainly, much larger than cats.
If you want to measure the fox in my picture, the coffee can is 4 inches in diameter and 5.5 inches tall. It is sitting in about 3” of grass. It looks bigger than a cat to me.
Maybe it is the good eats.
I fond this on youtube: Two kits on a trampoline
OK, to clarify things. I am not disputing that red foxes are taller than cats. I am contending primarily that their weights are similar, and,much more importantly, that foxes cannot normally be considered a threat to cats. I don’t think that there has been any data presented to dispute this contention. Killing foxes cannot be justified under the excuse of “protecting the cats.”
I live in a city but near a railway embankment where there are foxes, and they often visit the yards around here to scavenge. Many, many times I’ve wolen up to find the dustbin (garbage can) tipped over and the contents strewn everywhere. Also when they come into the back yard at night making noise it sends my dog into a barking frenzy which keeps us all awake. So yes, they’re a pest to me.
My neighbor has several hundred acres of grass, fields and woods that run into my place. We don’t have fences so it is impossible to keep the fox on my property (or find his traps).
I will keep offering “Alvin and his cousins” flavored Fox Lunchables. Hopefully, they will stay at my place.
Only the trail camera will know for sure.
@worriedguy
If he’s trapping out of season, or too near walkways or your house, or without a license, the local Game and Fish department may be interested :>)
ROFL @ “Alvin and his cousins” flavored fox lunchables!
I just looked at the site for Massachusetts Dept of Fisheries and Wildlife and it says “adult foxes’ weight is from 6 to 15 lbs but they often appear much heavier.”
@crisw This is kind of a “live and let live” neighborhood (at least for the humans). We all do things that might be considered “out of season”: bonfires, fireworks, shooting,.... We all would do anything for each other with endless support if needed. When I had my surgery, my driveway was miraculously plowed when it needed it. There’s no way I would turn him in.
@WillWorkForChocolate Fox Lunchables also come in Simon and Theodore flavors. As a special treat I occasionally give them the super size “Rocky and his friends” Lunchable, sans packaging, of course, to protect the environment.
@worriedguy Well, that only makes sense; it would be very difficult for the fox to manipulate the plastic and carboard packaging without thumbs anyway.
@worriedguy
Well, I am a bit biased towards the fox’s point of view on such issues! Maybe an educational campaign is in order then; assuage the guy’s fears about foxes so he doesn’t feel he has to kill them.
@crisw I will man up the next time I see him. In the meantime, I made a vow to myself that if I have not placed Alvin or Rocky in the assigned spot by 8 pm I will put an all beef hot dog.out there. I bought a box of 80 for $20 at Sam’s.
@worriedguy
Nice thought, but not a good idea. Hot dogs are not good food for foxes. They are very high in sodium and nitrates. In addition, feeding them human food can teach them that it’s tasty, which could lead to raiding garbage cans and the like, which won’t make your neighbors any fonder of the foxes.
Good point.. I guess I’ll have to eat some of them. I want the fox to at least come to my place nightly to checks things out. I figure the hot dog offering would only be for those rare days when nothing else was available. Maybe once a week. I absolutely refuse to put critters in the freezer on days when there are two or more.
Last night I used my night vision to watch him run off into the woods after drinking some water, carrying some bread that was left for the birds. I assume the den is in that direction. I hope it is on my property. They would be safe there.
@worriedguy
“I absolutely refuse to put critters in the freezer on days when there are two or more. ”
What, you don’t stock up on these?
@crisw Only $1.39 for a frozen guinea pig. Cheaper if I get a box of 500! That is a bargain! I might consider that if the rodent population here ever declines.
Hmm…I wonder if they sell them at Sam’s.
@crisw Here is a picture from last night. The camera did not take many shots even though there was plenty of activity . It was so warm out the passive IR sensor do not see the fox. Like a ghost, “Sly” could walk across the pattern and not set it off. It is 6:40 AM and I already got one chipmunk. Sly and the Family Stone will eat well tonight. I’ll remember the SA delicacies for another season.
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