What is the proper balance between personal responsibility and collective responsibility?

As a liberal, my beliefs about collective responsibility go deep to my faith. Biblical concepts like “To whom much has been given, much is required,” and “As you do to the least of these, you do unto me,” resonate in my heart and in the voting booth. I feel a deep responsibility to treat even the least deserving (by human standards) with dignity and respect. Because I have; I have a responsibility to lift the burden of someone who doesn’t.

I don’t seperate the two.

I also, don’t separate responsibilities.

@all So how far should collective responsibility go?

They are equally important, but there IS a difference.

Collective responsibility is a better idea but seems pretty unenforceable.

My sense is that the “personal responsibility” camp has a strongly merit-based view of society. There’s a certain faith that the system will reward those who deserve rewards, and a revulsion at the idea that some who don’t deserve rewards might game the system to get them anyway. It’s as if there were some kind of natural economic justice at work blessing the good and culling the unproductive from the herd. Along with that goes the assumption that untethering reward from merit, contravenes that natural justice and leads to social decay.

The “collective responsibility” camp is, overall, less concerned with the whole idea of who merits what. They’re more skeptical that there’s any reliable natural economic justice at work, so they’re somewhat less likely to assume a hard connection between economic success and personal merit. They’re less likely to get worked up about the possibility that someone might get something they don’t deserve. Instead, they look at society more as a whole, as an organism of sorts. They care less about which particular parts of the organism deserve to fed, because it’s the health of the overall organism that matters most. Just being a part of the whole is merit enough for some minimum care.

I belong to the second camp, but it’s not hard for me to shift perspective and see things through the lens of the first camp. However, I see more examples of collectively-oriented societies that function well than of personal responsibility-oriented societies that function well.

On a personal level, I take responsibility for my own needs as much as I can because that lightens the burden for the whole. And I really don’t care that some of the fruits of my labor end up in someone else’s belly, nor do I fret about whether or not they deserve it. I just think we’re all better off that way.

@Judi

But with other people’s money??

Collective has to focus on all things at the same time while a person can’t focus on all that good. That’s why a collective works better than any person. But while in a collective everyone has to participate with something.

I was under the impression we all knew we’re paying for someone whether we like it or not. Taxes is just a part of life, right? I’m sure we’ve all needed assistance at some point in our lives. What would be the point of giving money to charities, then?

We’re all alone on this planet, people. I know we can’t trust the government, or private institutions, but that’s all we have, so we have to work with what we have. Isn’t it people that determine this anyway? Last time I checked, some of our leaders were still susceptible to corruption, and people are also using the system. Our system can work, but it’s specific individuals and groups of people misusing it.

@CaptainHarley; I’m in the bracket that has benefited the most from the tax cuts.
If I want to live in a civilized society then I have to be willing to pay for it.

I don’t feel any collective responsibility. If everyone would be personally responsible, then there would be far less need for the democratic ideal of collective responsibility. I am responsible for for keeping my self up to the best of my abilities, for helping my family, and for supporting my friends. I am not responsible for some person I do not know and have never met. If I see suffering, my personal morals require that I attempt to help, but I don’t feel anyone should be forced into helping if their personal morals don’t require such an action.

@athenasgriffen, it would be wonderful if everyone would/could fulfill their personable responsibilities to society. Unfortunately we still live on planet earth and not everyone accepts this responsibility. That doesn’t even count the people that cannot take care of these responsibilities on their own. I accept my own personal responsibilities but I am grateful that I am in a position that allows me to help others.

WTF is collective responsibility. How do you establish it. How do you enforce it. What if someone does not want to be part of the collective.
There is no collective responsibility. There is only an arbitrary code, imposed by force, by whatever gang of thugs contol the monopoly on the the use of force, and the lease on prison cells at any given time.
Personal responsibily is simple and easy to measure. If you do not interact successfully with your surroundings, you will die. The most basic test in reality. No committee or panel of judges is required.

@josie So infants are pretty screwed, huh?

@incendiary_dan
Nature establishes without any doubt that infant survival is subject to the action of their parents. Some parents are good at it. Some are not. But what rational parent does not cherish their children. That is a personal responsibility. And if parents do not accept that responsibility, they are imagining that they can divorce themselves from nature, and thus they are not rational. And if they are not rational, where do they fit into the “collective responsibilty” picture any way. They have opted out at that point, and they are not a member of the collective responsibility club. Are only certain enlightened folks assigned the burden of collective responsibility? And are the rest patonized because they are too dumb, helpless, underpriviledged etc. Collective responsibility is a code phrase for how the self proclaimed intellectual elite attempt to control those who simply do not give a shit.
I’m tired.
Josie out.

@josie So now the infants get thrown out with the bathwater. ;)

All I’m saying is that what I’m perceiving as your assertion of “look after #1” doctrine is counterindicated by numerous examples of how humans evolved certain group sustaining activities and a certain level of altruism. It’s not necessarily an imposed system. Families are the prime example of that. It applies more broadly, in a less intense sense, to those in your community, however you define that. This is particularly true because not only are we social animals, but we have a much easier time surviving in a group on purely practical levels.

@incendiary_dan
Certainly human being are social creatures. It is an observable fact. But they are social because it is to their individual advantage to be so, and therefore they choose to divide their labor, and share risk. But they do not HAVE to be so. They do it for their individual survival, not because of some mystical calling to collective responsibility.
I know where this is going.
One more Fluther dog chasing it’s tail.
I’m not into it tonight.
Thanks for trying.,

@josie Which goes back entirely to what I said above: I don’t separate personal and collective responsibility. You’ve decried collective responsibility while simultaneously admitting its merit. Doesn’t matter what the motive is. :)

I’m in complete agreement with @thorninmud. I couldn’t have said it any better, so I won’t even try.

A person ought to look after himself. When that simply isn’t doable, he ought to turn to his support network: his friends, family, church, etc. Not the government.
It is my belief that this sort of reliance strengthens the bonds between them, might reduce the willingness to abuse them, and encourages behavior that won’t result in being cut off. When you place the government in this role, you lose that. Besides that, giving to those in need leaves a philanthropic high, whereas paying taxes feels like someone’s taking a bite out of your leg. Free will vs. control.

I would honestly rather die than be at the mercy of some government bureaucrat. It was bureaucrats who gave Hitler’s regime its teeth.

This article might give you an idea

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interdependence