What do people in the US think amendments banning Sharia law would accomplish?

Since the threat, the chance, of Sharia law being imposed anywhere in the U.S. is absolutely zero I have no idea what the point of any of this nonsense is.

I can’t see any useful purpose, so I assume it’s just posturing. Pandering to the lowest common denominator.

I can think of one thing here but I might be wrong. Are elections around for the next months?

I’m glad the Republicans are tackling the economy.

I know what a law is, but what is a ‘cultural law’ or a ‘religious law’? I must ask Leo Berman

…would have prohibited a Texas court from “from enforcing, considering, or applying a religious or cultural law.”

Guess that would be the end of “marriage is between one man and one woman” too.

It’s total bullshit. That law is for people who know nothing about the United States and live in fear and ignorance. I think it was jerv who recently said so much of our popuation are mushrooms, meaning ignorant and stupid and easily sucked in by the tactics of the far right. Of course we won’t have Sharia law in the US. If they actually pass some sort of ridiculous bill or amendment, I guess we can next ask for an amendment to prevent Christian law, since it seems we need to specifically pick a religion and reinforce we have a separation of church and state in the country. Maybe that is what someone should do, try to add Christian, Buddhist, and Hindu to the verbiage of the proposed amendment.

Although I agree that the law is pointless, I’m not exactly outraged about it, as it does exactly nothing.

Unless there is some little provision within it that will affect people’s futures, I really find it harmless, abet annoying.

@athenasgriffin It is a distraction, and a political move that is just a reminder that our politicians use dishonest tactics. They do nothing to educate their supporters, and everything to scare them and maintain their ignorance.

There is harm in the law in that I would rather our constitution be void of any particular religion. Naming one opens the possibility of other religions to be discussed and debated in our government, and we are supposed to have separation of church and state.

I agree the law is pointless, but I feel it is more of a problem than you. The Evangelicals will see it as a win for Christianity, interpret it as the US is indeed a Christian country and we will keep out those horrible Muslims. Christians feel secular is an afront against Christianity, I try my best to let them know people who fight for secular government along with separation of church and state are fighting for the religious to be able to practice their religion wihout fear of government interference, as long as they are not doing anything criminal. I am tired of being misunderstood by them, my intentions, our intentions as liberals, being misunderstood and misconstrued.

The right wing puts this bullshit out their like liberals are ok with sharia law. It is absurd.

@JLeslie I know that this law is just another petty distraction put up by conservatives to rally support for their cause with fear-mongering. I am not upholding the law or saying that it is valid. I am saying that we should save our breath to rally against some other, more important cause. Take a woman’s right to choose, for instance, which the Tea Party has done real harm to in certain states.

I am not okay with Sharia law. I just find it unimportant. Will the actual law focus on any one religion? If not, then I see it as an attempt to not only gain support with the less educated among us, but also to distract liberals away from more important issues. The Tea Party has won many other, more important battles. Perhaps if liberals would focus on one issue as a whole party they would actually pose a threat to conservatives.

@athenasgriffin As far as I can tell the democrats are basically ignoring this whole sharia law amendment thing for the most part.

You don’t think the liberals do focus on gay people in the miltary, gay marriage, socialized medicine? What I wish is the liberals would harp on the debt, and push through a plan to fix it. They could have let Bush tax cuts expire and they didn’t. Or, I guess the President didn’t. Many liberals felt like me.

It is a very clear statement that in the US our judicial system will be run according to the laws of the local, state, and federal government and not the laws of an individual’s chosen religion.

They get to say that anyone who opposes such an amendment is pro-Muslim.

It’ll at least make them feel like they’ve triumphed over those America-hatin’ Muslims.~

It could accomplish a pretty neat riot or two.

It’s racism.

@wundayatta – Racism????? Can you please explain how Islam and the practice of Shara law is tied to race?

The people who practice is are typically Arabs and Black Muslims. People with dark skin. Racism. Come on. This is obvious. It’s not about the religion. If white people were following this religion, there would be no problem.

@wundayatta – I believe you are mistaken. According to this only 24% of Muslums in America are black, and only 26% are Arabic.

And they’ll take the ten commandments out of the courthouse, right?

@YoBob But that’s not how Islam is perceived in the US. Or do you think racism is typically grounded in facts?

@SavoirFaire – Apologies for confusing the issue with those pesky facts.

@YoBob Except that you’ve done no such thing. Something can be motivated by racism even if the facts don’t support the racism. That’s my point. Do you agree, or do you think that black people deserved to be lynched back in the day?

@YoBob How do you interpret it to mean It is a very clear statement that in the US our judicial system will be run according to the laws of the local, state, and federal government and not the laws of an individual’s chosen religion. Then shouldn’t it be worded exactly that? An amendment to say no laws will be created or enforced according to an individuals religion? This proposal is only against the Muslim religion. As all those people who want it if we can be more general, or if we are more specific by listing a bunch of religions like Christianity being one, if the want the amendment.

@SavoirFaire – No, I do not agree with you. Further, I think that trying to link lynchings “back in the day” to an amendment clearly codifying that usurping our legal system in favor of a legal system based on an individuals religious preference to be, quite frankly, absurd.

But, as with most conversations where somebody whips out the “race card”, I suspect that this thread is no longer worth following.

@SavoirFaire is correct. If my perception is that a majority of Muslims in the country are non-white, then imagine what most of the rest of the country thinks. Is there a source of the breakdown of the race of American Muslims?

Perhaps only non-white American Muslims wear the clothes that obviously mark them as Muslim. I can not think of very many whites I have seen in the garb. That’s why the ones I do see really stick out.

It also could be because that where I live, most Muslims are non-white. It would be nice to see some data on this, particularly if broken down by metropolitan area.

However, I might be right in my perception. Here are some competing numbers. According to a Pew survey in 2008, 63% of Muslims in America are non-white. And this study seems to suggest that less than .5% of whites are Muslim (rounded to 0%) while around 1% of Blacks are Muslim. This survey estimates there were around 1.3 million Muslims in America in 2008.

@YoBob For the record, I don’t think it is race.

@wundayatta I find it interesting that Arabs are not considered whites. On our census I think they are. Unless I am mistaken? So are Sephardic and Middle Eastern Jews not considered white also?

I’m with @bob_ and @6rant6 – also, it’s just for show, to just have people see it ‘cause it’s the people who are paranoid.

@YoBob I’m not linking these amendments to lynching, I’m countering your assertion that the facts have to support racism for racism to exist. Just because the actual demographics of Islam might be different from the common perception of Islam does not mean that the common perception is not influencing anyone’s behavior. Indeed, when the common perception disagrees with the facts, that means there is an ignorance of the facts—thus why the common perception diverges from them. When what people believe and what is true diverge, people act on what they believe.

@JLeslie You know that race is purely a matter of perception? There is no measurable way of defining race that can be reproduced.

On the US Census, race is self-defined and you are not given the choice of “Arabic” for race. So people select their race from the choices available. Most people select “white” if that is an option.

However, for purposes of discrimination and racism, it matters not what you call yourself. What matters is how others perceive you. I think there is discrimination against Arabs and Blacks and Muslims. I don’t know if anyone would disagree.

I believe that if all Muslims were white, we wouldn’t be seeing these laws banning Sharia law. I believe that we are seeing these amendments because people are racist and perceive Muslims to be Black and Arabic. We see this in Texas and I don’t know where else. Perhaps other Southern states? There is racism in all states, but it seems like Southern states are more conservative and more anti-immigrant and more anti-non-Christian, so I call it racism, although it is certainly other isms as well.

@wundayatta My experience here in the midsouth during the presidential run was the people who brought up Obama being Muslim, were actually terrified he was Muslim. They may also have not liked he was black, but the two attributes were not synonomous. Not everyone freaked about him being supposedly being Muslim were necessarily worried about his skin color.

Sort of separate, but kind of on the same topic, I saw Sarah Palin a few days ago talking about someone else’s comment and she used “bless his heart” in her response. A southern way of saying that person is to be ignored, must be confused, and is an idiot. Palin is not a southerner, but that is speaking to her choir of course. So, I do agree that these candidates take on the language of their followers on purpose, and it is understood in a way that is not necessarily understood by other regions of the country. Ironically they all came after Hillary for speaking with a little bit of a southern accent while giving a speech in the south, but the woman actually lived in the south for many many years. But, I digress.

I actually consider my husband to be a different race, he is mostly Middle Eastern (Jewish) with some French and Spanish thrown in. People on fluther have given some good arguments to why there is not race, just the human race, but going with the way I typically categorize people, I would say he is a different race. He has a genetic disease that is typically carried by people who live along the mediterranean, he has black curly hair and olive skin. I don’t think white people of nordic or other northern european countries look at him and think he is white like me. So, I always found it odd that on most surveys he would be white. He is actually Hispanic (Mexican) white. And, in his country he would be considered white, but in his country I don’t think they ever ask race. But, I understand what you are saying.

Race is in the eye of the beholder and in the psyche of the individual. It’s not measurable in any concrete way. Thus we all see each other differently from the way we see ourselves and we see ourselves differently from the way others see us. That’s how it goes. It’s a social negotiation only noone really knows the rules. Or we’re all playing by different rules.

@wundayatta is right, there really is no such thing as race, biologically speaking; what we perceive as race is only a number of very minor variations in a species that has a tremendous number of variations, and they are variations that really are only skin deep. Race is a cultural construct, not a biological fact. It is no more or less biologically based or significant than hair color.

@lillycoyote Yeah, pretty much that is what it is, hair color. Hair color, skin color, none of it really matters in my opinion. I think in the US so much is discussed in racial terms, we are sort of conditioned. The government still asks us to declare our race. We do find some significant demographic and psychographics according to “race.” it starts from the top (our government) and trickles down. Other countries do not function like this, don’t think in these terms.

I also agree with @wundayatta regarding race as a social construction, but his point also raises issues for the statistics cited by @YoBob. Looking at those statistics, it is still the case that at least 76% of American Muslims are non-white (the crux of @wundayatta‘s original point). But there is also the issue of Persian Muslims. Persians are not, and do not consider themselves to be, Arabs. Americans tend to be unaware of this fact, however. So if you do a survey and ask “are you black, Arab, Asian, or something else?” you’ll get a significant number of people answering “other” who you might have thought were covered in your main three categories.

I’m not sure what to say about how things would be in an alternate world where most Muslims looked like people of European descent. The roots of anti-Muslim sentiment go so far back in our history that I’m not sure how the religious tensions would have played out. That said, @wundayatta‘s theory does not seem to be entirely without merit. Something to think about, for sure.

@SavoirFaire But, part of @wundayatta‘s point is race is in the eye of the beholder, and for the most part Americans would group together Arabs and Persians as you pointed out. Even if the American knows Iran is not an Arab country, we generally think of the middle eastern countries as a block, with the exception of Israel,

@JLeslie Quite so. The point about Arabs and Persians was in regards to surveys where people self-report their race. Sorry, I should have made that more clear.

@SavoirFaire Yes, I understood people would self identify themselves as you described. I don’t know how the stats are being gathered for who is Muslim in America. Probably most surveys they do self Identify. Interestingly @wundayatta cited a study that there are 1.3 million Muslims in America. The stats I have seen run between 3 million and 6 million.

@JLeslie Yep. The stats are all over the place because there is no real census of religions. Therefore, the estimates have to be made on the basis of samples, and the results of those samples are very sensitive to sample design, size, methodology and definitions. I saw estimates between 1 and 8 million. I don’t think anyone really knows, and I don’t think it makes sense to split the difference. I think conservative is better. But that’s just me.

@wundayatta I have read previously that the stats for Muslims in America are all over the place, because they are not sure how to count the not very religious Muslims. America is fine with the non-religious self identifying still as the religion they were raised in. Especially the Jews do this, and Judaism even has a designation for those people; Reformed.