Why are muslims looked down on all the time?

Unfortunately there have been peolpe who have maligned the Muslim faith (actual terrorists) and then that is combined with a lot of ignorance/stupidty/fear on behalf of people who don’t know enough about the religion at all. This is why Muslims are looked down upon.

The problem is knowledge. The more people get to know the religion of Islam the less they will stereotype every Muslim.

Humans are basically lazy animals. Why bother thinking about the problem, when you can get the same survival benefits just by thinking all Muslims are scum. We are hardwired to survive, the brain has had a lot of time to develop little discriminatory ideas and notions to help keep us alive.

Personally, I don’t trust Muslims. It’s not because I think all Muslims are terrorists, you simply can’t say that. However you can say that all Muslims are Muslim. I seriously hate the Quran and the things it says. Terrorists may have twisted the faith to suit their diabolical plan, but it was not too good before they twisted it in the first place.

Like @sarahhhhh says, some people don’t know much about the religion, and some are just racist who use the word “Muslim” as a code for “Arab”. (I know not all Muslims are Arabs)

However, I do know a fair bit about the Muslim faith, I’m not racist, but I still dislike Muslims. I don’t consider you a Muslim, you say you are a Muslim and an Atheist, well… you can’t be both, you are either a Muslim or an Atheist. The fact you still call your self a Muslim just goes to show how deep Islam can infiltrate a persons mind. Even though it is just a belief system, even you seem to have combined it with ethnicity and now secular identity.

So, not only do Muslims have to contend with the media and the ignorant and the terrorist reputation, but they also have to deal with the fact that smarter and less ignorant people will not be too willing to defend them either. Secially if they have partly or fully read the Quran.

Because unfortunately America really freaked out after 9/11. The terrorists reference the Muslim religion as their motive for what they do, and so there are some people in America who try to market Islam as being always extreme and horrible. Our Evangelical Christians say they believe every single word of their bible is true, and written exactly as God said it. So, thye take apart he Qu’ran, find a line that sounds really bad, and then harp on how awful the Muslims are. Of course there are penty of lines in the Christian bible that are awful, but they ignore it, or don’t even know.

I agree, every religion has their not very religious and uber religious people, generalizing is just ridiculous. But, the Evangelical Christians would say the not very religious Christian simply isn’t a Christian, and they are usually very very surprised that there is such a thing as an atheist Jew, and there are a lt of us. It just does not compute for them, especially if they live in communities that are very homogeneous. If they rarely come into contact with Muslims they can create all sorts of negative ideas about them in their heads.

The Muslims they notice are those dressed in hijabs or burqas, perceive those women as being opressed, controlled, not free. Just dressing differently helps people in America think those Muslims are different. It is xenophobia at its best.

The majority of Americans do not look down on Muslims, but there are definitely some who are wary or irrationally afraid.

I think the average Muslim needs to be out in the media more and it would help.

@poisonedantidote Have you not met a single Muslim person you’ve liked as a person? I know many Muslims who are lovely people. You can hate the religion but many times people will interpret the religion in a positive way and live their lives very well and in fact be very good people.

I think the average Muslim needs to be out in the media more and it would help.

@JLeslie I couldn’t agree more. It’s a fear that can only be dispelled by a more active role by the Muslim community. Be known, be loud, be assholes but atleast go out there and let people know you are just like every other human on this planet.

@poisonedantidote I doubt you know any modern muslims. And did you read all of Quran? What you have is called prejudice and you will be ignorant until you leave it alone.
I’m in a christian school at the moment and they made me hate religion, that’s why I’m an atheist.

@poisonedantidote I disagree you can’t be Muslim and athiest. The OP can identify however she wants. Jews do it all the time, around 40% of Jews are atheists. There is an argument going on about this very thing actually, which first came to light for me when all the arguing was going on about the new muslim center in NYC near ground zero. The people organizing and funding the new community center spoke of American Muslims following in the footsteps of the Jews. Creating centers like the JCC. I saw arguments between the wife of the Iamn associated with the Muslim center and other Muslim clergy, she argued for a more moderate faith, an Americanised version of worship, while other Muslims said there is no such thing as being only sort of Muslim.

I like to think America will be the place that Muslims feel free to be as religious or not as they like, and can still identify as Muslims.

@sarahhhhh I have no problem with Muslims as people, I just dislike the fact that they are Muslims. Not the race, not the clothes, not the eating habbits, but just the fact that they believe what is in the Quran.

The same way I would dislike the idea that child abuse is hillarious, or that punching strangers and running away is good fun.

The beliefs and dogma are what I dislike. If you seriously believe what the quran teaches, while I can appreciate your ability to feel and suffer, and while I can appreciate the value your life has, I simply can’t respect your reasoning, and can’t help but distrust you and look down on you some what.

Sure, most Muslims read the Quran, they keep the good bits and ignore the bad bits, same as most Christians, but that could change for any one of them at any moment, all it would take is to wake up one day and interpret something different. Just like with my responsible friend who owns a gun for hunting, I still have to be weary that he owns a gun to start with.

@QueenOfNowhere Read my post again, you have confused me for someone else.

@JLeslie Yea, she can identify her self however she likes, she is just wrong is all. You cant believe that Allah is the one true god and be an atheist, it’s just that simple. Personally, I identify my self as a skydiver that has never left the ground, I hope you are ok with that also.

[steps back and waits for people to start making sense… probably not going to happen]

I wonder though, percentage wise, how many Muslims are very religious, and how many are moderate compared to other religions. Most of the middle east seems to still expect women to be very modest and cover their hair. I think in Saudi the women still cannot drive? These things do not help the picture of Muslims at all.

@poisonedantidote So then what do you make of us atheist Jews?

@JLeslie Define “Jew”.

Do you mean an atheist who believes in Judaism? thats also an oximoron. You can’t be both. If you mean Jewish as in the ethnicity, then that would solve the problem.

Please don’t try and claim that Muslim is an ethnicity, my brain would not be able to take it. a Nigerian Muslim has no ethnical relationship with an Arabian Muslim or white Muslim. Jews share a link via DNA, it has been found and documented, the same can not be said for Muslims.

The beliefs and dogma are what I dislike. If you seriously believe what the quran teaches, while I can appreciate your ability to feel and suffer, and while I can appreciate the value your life has, I simply can’t respect your reasoning, and can’t help but distrust you and look down on you some what.

@poisonedantidote Please clarify. Does this statement applies equally to all religion across the board or only in the case of Muslims? I’m rather tired right now and want to make certain that I’m understanding your position clearly.

Check these out if you can.
Everyone in this show are muslims
Here are two of my best friends
My birthday
Again, I’ve never preached in a mosque. I like muslims around me because they are all close, nice and have good morals. We never once talk about “religion”. All of the muslims I know, even the most religious ones-my grandma- don’t force me to do all those things. Instead, they are lovely people who have good philosophies of life. When I told my grandma I’m going to a christian high school, I was afraid of her reaction. She said it’s good to learn all religions because It’s a knowledge in life. I doubt that every singe christian in the world is “religious”. Some just see the bible as good morals and they don’t spend their whole lifes going to churches and praying.

Fact from fiction, truth from diction. Because if you are in the US and get that, it is because Yankees are one of the biggest hoards of two-faced, maniacal, stomach bile, you can ever come across. We talk the talk, but don’t walk the walk. That doesn’t stop at Muslims. Once you paid your debt to society, it should be paid. Have a record, smeared for life. Be Muslim, you are forever tainted by the US embassy taking in Iran, Lockerbie jet bombing, hijacking of the Achille Lauro, etc, etc.

To fathom that there are many Muslims living in the Middle East that are not terrorist is too hard to imagine, unless they are lackeys like Qatar, Kuwait, or others who let Uncle Sam have bases on their soil. Or, those we have to be nice to because we are sucking their oil pipe, like the Saudis, who have some of the worse human rites violations around, but they have the oil, so we will just shut up about them.

If you fall into a fringe group, or a group people want to malign, undocumented worker, Christian, ex-felon, anyone with a sex crime, even if you never touched anyone like a peeper or exhibitionist, prostitute, etc, you are said to be a human with rights but that is all lip service. If you have the wrong pedigree or history you are de facto scum, and the official PC rhetoric is it is all a big melting pot where second chances are the norm, is just that, talk.

@Raven_Rising That is a very complicated question. There are small changed for each and every religion, but yes, it more or less applies to all.

I’d say it applies to Muslims and Christians, and partly to other religions that believe in the Abrahamic god. If you are a wiccan, I can’t respect your reasoning, but at least I’ll trust you a little more. If you are a Buddhist I will diskile you lack of appreciation for human accomplishments and lack of appreciation for some materialism, but I would have very little problem trusting you. The list goes on…

“Believers, Jews, Sabaeans or Christians – whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does what is right – shall have nothing to fear or regret”

“He deserves paradise who makes his companions laugh”

‘The true servants of the Most Merciful are those who behave gently and with humility on earth, and whenever the foolish quarrel with them, they reply with [words of] peace.’

This is from Quran. I don’t believe in religion now, but I’m now studying Bible and certain things sound ridiculous to me. Just like certain things sound ridiculous in Quran. But that doesn’t mean people of a religion are all idiots.

@poisonedantidote I thought that was where you were going with it. Thank you for clarifying :)

“Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.”

“Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…”

“Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace…”

“O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness.”

etc… etc… etc…

@poisonedantidote What about the cafeteria Catholic?

Not all Jewish people are genetically linked to Jews from thousands of years ago. We have people who have converted, although not many. The Sephardic and Ashkenazi Jews are from different parts of the world with different traditions, follow slightly different kosher rules, look different. My husband is descended from Middle Eastern Jews and looks it, looks like he is from a Mediterranean country, and my family is eastern European, and looks it.

I think non religious Jews continue to identify as Jews primarily because people are always trying to kill us just for being Jewish, and society perceives anyone born as Jewish is Jewish. It is almost like we have no choice, so we might as well embrace it.

@poisonedantidote You know, you are very disrespectful. I’m giving you the good moral examples in Quran because you said it’s shit, and I added that it also has ridiculous lines and you are posting some to prove what? What I already said?
Do you want me to post all the ridiculous Bible verses here? I’m not going to do that because I’m not down to your level, and I don’t categorize a group by their religious preferences.

@poisonedantidote I am curious, the Muslims you come into contact with, where are they from? Are they Spanish? Or, from other neighboring countries? I am willing to accept that the Muslims you come into contact with primarily are very religious, maybe fanatical almost.

@poisonedantidote I don’t know why you have what appears to be extreme hatred. Most of the time I wouldn’t know if a person is Muslim until they identify themselves as the same. I know very smart people who are religious. People who are logical and rational are also religious. Religion is a faith based system so it has nothing to do with reasoning as you say.

@QueenOfNowhere I think atleast you’re getting a first hand answer from @poisonedantidote as to why people don’t like Muslims.

@JLeslie “We have people who have converted” to the faith yes… to the ethnicity? no. If you can convert ethnicity then I’m black now.

Rules falls under dogma and belief, not ethnicity.

@QueenOfNowhere I am disrespectful why?

- For saying people who think Muslims are terrorists are ignorant?

- For saying that Muslims have value as people?

- For saying controversial things about something you are still deeply confused about? <—-

You don’t need to post any ridiculous bible verses, I own several copies, I know how ridiculous it is. (I’m an atheist… an actual one)

@JLeslie I would say the majority I meet are from Africa just as I’m so close, but I do come in contact with Arabian originating ones also.

No, they are not very religious at all, they will eat and drink what they like, they even miss prayers some times, some even do drugs, some do not, some fanatical, some not. Its a big mix. My doctor is Muslim, my friend Uptar, and so is a co-worker, and they are all very different.

This is nothing to do with people or news reports, this is from the reading of “holy” books and interpretation of faiths. It has nothing to do with terrorism at all btw, none of the usual stuff.

Without trying to be sarcastic or anything, I’m seeing your position a little like someone who would defend a moderate pedophile/murderer. As if saying “Oh, he only wishes he could strangle prostitutes, he wont actually do it though, it’s just a nasty festering belief he carries around, he does not usually act on it.”

going to work now, back later for moar!

@poisonedantidote “Personally, I don’t trust Muslims. It’s not because I think all Muslims are terrorists, you simply can’t say that. However you can say that all Muslims are Muslim.”
Christians are christian. Jews are jewish. But do you go deep down on the ones that are not that religious? Do you dislike every religion or only muslims? that’s the question.

So then my question is, are all your friends atheists?

@sarahhhhh “I don’t know why you have what appears to be extreme hatred.”

I don’t know why you think I do. I’m using words such as “dislike”, and am making reasoned arguments. there is no “ALL CAPS RAGE!” so to speak.

@QueenOfNowhere I’m an atheist with mild to extreme anti-theistic ideas. I don’t discriminate, I dislike all religion equally.

gonna be late. back later

EDIT:

“Do you dislike every religion or only muslims?”

Not that I’m the one who should be trying to correct grammar, but the religion is called “islam” not “muslims”. I dislike Islam, and I dislike the fact that some people are muslim, because it means by default they like Islam. That’s all this is.

@poisonedantidote it sounds more like you are identifying Jews as a race rather than an ethnicity.

I completely disagree with your pedophile/murder analogy. But, I think you knew I would.

Identity is very different than religious belief. If a 7 year old says they are Muslim, because their family is, are they less Muslim because they have not read the Qu’ran through yet? Many people are the religion they are because it feels comfortable to them, and have not analyzed the book from end to end.

But, again, I am willing to accept that maybe the Muslims have more fanatics than other religions, if that is actually the case. When I say fanatics, I do not mean extremist terrorist, I just mean those who live and breath being religious. Like so many of our Evangelicals down here in the American south.

@JLeslie “it sounds more like you are identifying Jews as a race rather than an ethnicity.”

The “I’m black now” line? yea… poor choice of words, but you get the general idea.

Yes, a 7 year old child is less Muslim than the parents, babies and toddlers are incapable of being Muslims at all.

Again, fanatics and terrorism have nothing to do with this, I was arguing online about Islam long before 9/11, and living in Spain, I lost no loved ones in 9/11, It changed me no more than the Madrid bombings changed you.

had to call a taxi… you feckers are making me late! ... im gone

@poisonedantidote Rather than saying ”[people of the islamic religion” I said muslims. I think it is right since this is not an english grammar test.
And you didn’t answer the question. Are all your friends atheists?

@poisonedantidote Just to be clear the events of 9/11 did not change my view of Muslims.

@poisonedantidote Not just the I’m black now line. I think of myself as ethnically Jewish because of how I am, my attitudes, how I see the world, the food, the traditions, the subculture within my group. In some ways I see my husband’s family as different ethnically and cuturally, even though I accept them as Jewish of course, they are a different type of Jewish. Ethnicity has more to do with country and culture in my opinion.

9/11 was our modern day Holocaust and anyone with a Middle Eastern name or look will automatically bear the burden of the suffering caused by those 13 Muslim men that day for a long time to come.

Hey guys, could we mellow a bit. Maybe show a little more kindness?

Isn’t it clear? As long as others don’t believe in anything they won’t see you with good eyes. No matter if you are a muslin or any other sort of believer. People misjudge what they do not understand.

Oh and please don’t go there and say you guys are not in the category above. I’ve seen a lot of discussions where someone was marginalized just because he has different beliefs. All discussions start well but end up with people don’t liking others because are not the same like them.

@Cruiser with all due respect, 911 was America’s greatest tragedy but it could never compare with the Holocaust. Think about it.

I also would refuse to think that any Muslim automatically bears the burden of it. I refuse to think like those killers who automatically thought any American was a target. I do however feel mistrust for Muslims who choose not to condemn extremist practitioners of their religion. I commend those few who do.

@Hibernate I am not sure I understand what you are saying. What I got from your statement was nonbelievers are more likely to dislike Muslims? I think that is completely false. I think it is much more likely for a religious person from another religion to be negative aout Muslims. Sure some atheists are, and some religious peope aren’t, but I see way more Evangelical Christians freaked having a prejudice against Muslims than atheists. Look at how many were having a nervous breakdown thinking Obama mght be Muslim.

Ok… I’m back from work.

I’m not exactly sure what points people are disagreeing with me on. It’s quite simple really, If you are a Muslim you at least have some loyalty to the quran, and this makes you a potentially bad person, seeing as the quran is self evidently a bad book that is full of more bad than good.

Hitler wrote a couple of books, he had some good ideas too. Sure, the hate was bad, but he was a very clever man with a lot of good ideas. What would people think if I tried to defend nazi’s by saying “you just have not met any modern nazis”.

What exactly is a modern muslim? when people ask me if I actually know any modern muslims… is it the assumption that I am a time traveler that only knows muslims from the past?

Talking about prejudice, just how carefully does someone need to express their objections towards islam without prejudice people automatically assuming that the person they are talking to is a racist?

All i’m really seeing here is semantics, fallacies, poor definitions, and just plain twisted arguments, all in effort to defend something, that even a child could tell you is bad.

I don’t get it.

Islam is bad, sure, some muslims are ok, but by and large, Islam is just plain bad, and if you believe and follow it, then there is at least some bad somewhere in you, and if not, it is at least very very likely. If someone tells you they think Hitler was a cool guy, be worried, if someone tells you the quran is the greatest book ever, be worried.

I too am confused about how one could be both atheist and Muslim. If one becomes a Muslim by professing the Shahada (“There is no god but God, and Muhammad is his messenger”), then I guess I just don’t see how someone could deny God and then still be considered Muslim.

I suppose that you’re using “Muslim” here to refer to the culture that has grown up around Islam. In that same sense, even though I’m not a Christian in terms of belief, I grew up in a culture shaped by Christianity. I would never call myself a Christian because of that, but there’s no doubt that Christianity had some effect in shaping my worldview (whether I can see that or not). I do consider myself Buddhist, but if I were suddenly dropped into a traditionally Buddhist culture, I’d probably feel just as much culture shock as any other American, though I might adapt more quickly.

@mazingerz88 I did not intend to demean the horrific nature and magnitude of the Holocaust but more or less compare what it was and still is like to be German. I was called a Nazi almost daily 8th – 12th grade thanks to the 80–97% Jewish population of those schools. You should hear the malevolence towards my ancestors that spews forth from my wife’s relatives. I doubt it will ever die down ever.

“I’m not exactly sure what points people are disagreeing with me on. It’s quite simple really, If you are a Muslim you at least have some loyalty to the quran, and this makes you a potentially bad person, seeing as the quran is self evidently a bad book that is full of more bad than good.” Wow, you are offending. How do you know that Quran is that disgusting? Are you a Quran genious? In schools here, they teach religion under morals and relate just some to Quran and Muhammed. They teach how Muhammed was as a person and the help he has done to people around him. They teach us how to be a better person and how to help our community. They teach us to love and help. It is under the name of Religion Class. And you are here telling me that Muslims are bad people. That shows your ignorance to me… I never talk about other religions that way as a whole. You can’t say every muslim is bad. Quran and religion is not taught to us like it is a book that we should worship or we will go die.
Muslims who are very strict and conservative are “bad people”. That is what you should say instead. Maybe use your words more carefully. Not every muslim lives his life according to Quran completely.

@thorninmud If you read carefully, I was a muslim just a year ago until I moved to US and went to a Christian school that basically made me hate religion itself. They judged muslims and all the other religions that were not theirs. They made fun of other people’s beliefs and made fun of their looks. They went to church, confessed and sinned again. I am not saying all christians are like this and I know they aren’t but from experience I learned that religion is not a way to live. I have my own religion I guess now and it seems smarter than all the others to me.

So, you would say you’re no longer a Muslim? Does “your own religion” not have a God?

@thorninmud I’m no longer anything yes. I just don’t think a religion describes you as a person. I’d rather be called nothing than a religion. I believe in weird stuff now, hahah.. I don’t want to say it here. If you want to know, you could pm me

@QueenOfNowhere I let the last 5 or 6 straw-man arguments you made against me slide. but I cant anymore.

You do not know how to debate and are not making any sense, I say one thing, and then you answer me as if you did not even understand what I have said.

Find for me where I said “muslims are shit” or where I said “muslims are bad people”. You are taking my carefully thought out arguments and twisting them.

How do I know the Quran is a bad book? because I have read the thing, or at least as much of it as I could stomach. For every good thing the Quran says it says 10 bad things, and the bad things all contradict the good things.

As for people teaching you how Muhammed helped people and was such a cool guy, that is just a plain lie. He was a blood thirsty worrior and a backwards contratian lunatic.

Do you really want me to give you a full discolsure of the horrid things in the Quran?

Why exactly am I offensive to you? because I say one thing you disagree with?

You still identify as a Muslim because the teachings of Islam are designed to polute your mind. Not only does it teach dogma, but a whole way of life as well. This aspect of Islam has poluted your mind, and left you incapable of having a rational discussion about the topic.

Stop taking it all so personal, I am not trying to attack you, I am simply answering the question that you asked. If you are that sensetive to answers you don’t like, maybe you should not ask this kind of question.

I like you as a person, I am sure you have seen me answer some of your questions in the past, I hope you find a nice boyfriend, and that you have a good life, I don’t have anything against you. That is the entire point. Why can’t you just understand that saying “the religion of Islam is bad” is not the same as saying “all muslims are bad” and not the same as saying “muslims can be potentially bad because they believe in Islam”.

@poisonedantidote You clearly stated muslims are bad people or potential bad people and that they are untrustworthy above about 100 times. I don’t have to show you where you did. That bothers me since you don’t even know one muslim personally. I have grown up with many, many and I disagree with you.
You may not like Quran, but you can not say that even people who believe in it and like it are “bad people”. I gave you an example of my grandma. You are calling my grandma a potential bad, untrustworthy person and you have never seen how she holds and kisses me, gives me love, helps poor people around her and is kind to everyone around her. Personality and religion are not the same things. I think you are mixing them. You meet some muslims, talk to them, share with them and listen. And then you come here and talk about them. I ask this question because it bothers me so much that muslims are considered the worst among religions when people don’t even have a clue. You can’t know each and every muslim. And if you don’t, do not talk about it like you do.

I agree with many of your ideas… Again I honestly dislike religion itself. But I am not saying that being a muslim is being a potential bad person. That is offending to me since I know 100+ muslims and none are like that. I dislike many christians but I also love many.

But I got my answer.

Muslims are looked down on because people are too lazy to take an interest in the lives of people other than their own kind. It is an expression of ignorance.

@Cruiser I did not feel you have demeaned the Holocaust with your post. Not at all. It’s just that seemingly raising 911 to that level is a bit of a stretch. But I see your point. : )

@poisonedantidote you are saying things like

“Personally, I don’t trust Muslims.”
”...but I still dislike Muslims.”

I think it’s justified to think you dislike muslims and not just the religion. You seem to say you cannot separate the person from the religion. This I agree with in theory but practically, a lot of people who say they are from a certain religion don’t believe in EVERY aspect of it. (Whether they then actually remain Muslim/Christian/Jewish after that is a different thing.)

Also those verses you quote, at least a few of them, are out of context and are actually talking about when you are under attack or being threatened.

I personally like the idea that people can identify with a religion, and not have to believe or act on everything the good book, whatever your book is, says. As @QueenOfNowhere stated, her Muslim grandmother is a loving and kind person. Similarly, I have always said I would have a hard time marrying someone from one of the Evangelical Christian religions, because they, or their family, or quite possibly my children would believe I am not getting into heaven, that God does not accept me into his kingdom, and it is offensive. That no matter how good I am it would not matter. The reason I bring it up, is because what I care about is a persons actions, and what they personally believe, not necessarily all the beliefs they are supposed to have because of the religion they identify with. I hope @QueenOfNowhere grandmother does not sit around worrying her perfect granddaughter whom she loves, now will not go to heaven. I have a friend raised Baptist, who even in his 40’s still gets letters from his parents asking him to come back to the religion, that his ways will harm him in eternity. He is a good man, family man, high integrity, still identifies as Christian, but he drinks every so often, will dance with his wife, but he married a Catholic and raised his children Catholic. They do not go to church regularly.

Christians are less likely to understand I think, because Christians have no room for it. As @thorninmud said, he can not understand being atheist and Muslim, can you understand being Jewish and Atheist? Christians have a harder time wrapping their brains around it because of how they think for their own religion. Christians insist on accepting Jesus as your savior to get in with God. Judaism does not. Judaism allows all good people to go to heaven. We believe each individual has their own relationship with God. Probably Muslims are similar to the Christians on this sort of thing, I really don’t know, but I would really like it if Christians were more like the Jews on this point. In my experience Catholic tend to think more like this. The every day Catholic tends to reject that their religion is the only one that should exist or the only right one.

@JLeslie I can definitely understand being Jewish and atheist, but that’s because I have a conception of Jewishness as an ethnicity that’s somewhat independent of my concept of Judaism as a religion. I don’t have equivalent concepts for a Christian or a Muslim ethnicity.

@JLeslie let me explain. I’m a Christian and people who do not share my beliefs do not like me. I have friends who are Jewish, Muslims, Hindu and they are not liked by others either just because they are DIFFERENT then the rest. Isn’t it clear? If someone believes something different he’s not gonna be liked by others no matter what he believes.

Think of it like this. Galileo said the earth revolves around the sun and he got burned because he was DIFFERENT. No matter what someone choose to believes [be it he can support that with facts or not] he’s gonna find a lot of people who discourage him not to believe that.

@thorninmud But, why can’t it be so? If Arab Muslims say, feel like the two are intertwined, why can’t it be like Judaism? It can be whatever they want in my opinion, amd yet still it can be separate all at the same time. When someone asks me what I am (I live in America, so it is common to ask where your family is from or what you are) I answer my family came from Latvia and Russia. The majority of the time they want to know if I am Jewish. If they want to know, then they should ask that. As much as I feel ethnically Jewish, it does not define where my family emigrated from to get to America. When Italk to a Catholic I usually assume they are Catholic, not always the case, but usually, and being Catholic and being Italian is all intertwined to hpw the person is. The Italian Catholic is different than the Irish Catholic, but they have certain things in common also. I really think we should not putting our idea onto how to categorize someone, they decide for themselves.

Jews are kind of stuck being considered one people, because that is how the world sees us, even if we want to say no, Judaism is my religion, or not for that matter. Hitler would not have given a shit if I had said, “please, I do not practice my religion, I am not a Jew.” Our fellow Jelly Qingu runs into this, and has stated his annoyance at people still considering him Jewish, even though he rejects the religion, all religion.

@Hibernate I do not have that experience with any of my Catholic friends or Jews. As I said before Jews believe each person, each religion has its own relationship with God, each is worthy, and Jews believe all good people will go to heaven. Sharing beliefs does not affect whether I don’t like someone or not, religion is personal. What you said sounds like something a Christian, non-Catholic would say. I can’t imagine a Catholic, Jew or Muslim who I know not liking someone because they are a different religion. Although we do dislike when someone actively tries to convert us, or thinks we are less worthy or assumes we have less integrity or morality. Treat me with respect, and I will treat you the same. Golden rule. You get what you give.

But I don’t think that Arab Muslims would ever say that their ethnicity as Arabs and Islam are intertwined. Muslims have always seen Islam as a universal religion that can be taken on with a simple profession of faith. They don’t see anything particularly “Arab” about it.

But (and I may be wrong) Jewishness was always seen as integral with being descendants of Israel.

@mazingerz88 @Cruiser with all due respect, 911 was America’s greatest tragedy but it could never compare with the Holocaust. Think about it. The greatest tragedy was most likely Pearl Harbor. The amount of civilian loss might have been less, but it was a full-on attack by an actual government state with the capability, if used right, could have invaded the West coast.

It is just that 911 was more shocking. Uncle Sam has enjoyed the reputation as bad boy on the block who kicked butt and took names. The US was not only the makers of the WMD it was the only nation to ever use it on another nation, and still try to justify it, and get off pretty much unblemished. No one ever invades Uncle Sam’s airspace; he does that to other people. Therefore, not only was the air space of the US de facto violated, it was with its own aircraft. That made the US look weak and feckless and when you have always been the biggest and most powerful on the planet, so to be sucker punched like that was shocking and embarrassing.

America always needs a scapegoat. Currently we have Muslims, immigrants (only a certain kind, though) and taxes. Just give it a decade or so and we’ll be on to other scapegoats.

@thorninmud I thought about it more, and I think it probably is the case that Arabs or Muslims think of the two as being intertwined. But, I don’t see why things cannot evolve for theor to be “modern” Muslims, or however they choose to be called, who are less religious. Just like modern Orthodox Jews, or Reformed Jews. No reason a group of Muslims cannot break off an define how they choose to believe or practice the Muslim religion.

I rarely think about being Jewish as being a descendent of Israel. It is so long ago afterall. I have no idea how far back I would have to trace back to verify my ancestors were from Israel. The first Christians are also from Israel. The only real difference is the Christians went all over trying to convert everyone, and the Jews didn’t. I don’t know if it is in the old testament not to convert others, or if it is just tradition in my religion. But, in modern day we see it as respectful. Respecting the other person and their beliefs.

There is a difference between “dislike” and calling someone “shit”.

There is a difference between “probably” and “abolutely all”.

If you guys are not capable of understanding the difference between my position, and that of a fundamentalist christian that thinks all muslims are terrorists, then all I can do is suggest some English lessons for begginers.

[shrugs shoulders and walks away feeling like I just got done talking to the mentally handicapped]

Lol I feel like there is no difference under this subject.. The point is obvious… Well whatever.

“I feel like there is no difference under this subject”

Just goes to show how much Islam can polute a mind, thanks for proving my point

@QueenOfNowhere I’m in a christian school at the moment and they made me hate religion, that’s why I’m an atheist. Not to distract you, but out of couriosity how did that come about?

@poisonedantidote Lol are you freaking kidding me? “Islam” polluted my mind?! Have you been listening to what I’m saying?! You are saying “muslims are probably blablabla…” “muslims are potentially bad…” You know what, I get it. You are just another ignorant person to me who has prejudice over certain groups of people. I guess we can’t change how people think. Just like there are animal abusers in the world, there are many types of closed-minded people too. xoxo

@Hypocrisy_Central I’ll pm you.

@QueenOfNowhere

“I doubt you know any modern muslims. And did you read all of Quran? What you have is called prejudice and you will be ignorant until you leave it alone.
I’m in a christian school at the moment and they made me hate religion, that’s why I’m an atheist.”

That was the first reaction you had to my first post. to call me ignorant. You have twisted everything I have said, and said nonsensical things since the beginning of the discussion. You are too emotionally invested in the subject to make sense…. this is something Islam has done to you. So yes, it polluted your mind.

@poisonedantidote As @JLeslie pointed out clearly….
So, I’m not repeating myself over and over again.

Lol you are so wrong brother… So wrong… I am not even a muslim right now. And I’m not in a what-you-call “Islamic” country. I’ve also never worn a head-scarf and been wearing mini skirts, mini shorts and drinking since I was 13. How did Islam polluted my mind? You are so hard to deal with. Goodbye!

Sand in private areas.

Sorry. Thought you were asking why muslims always look down.

If I may briefly throw myself into this fray :)

@QueenOfNowhere To answer the question you posed, I think most people are uninformed about Islam and its tenets. Because they didn’t grow up with it, they are unfamiliar with what the Quran says and what it does not. They are also not familiar with certain aspects of Middle Eastern/North African culture so certain customs seem strange and outdated. Unfortunately, people are familiar with 9/11 and the actions of “Islamic” terrorists. So instead of finding out whether or not these terrorists are nutjobs like all other religious extremists, many would rather sit back and assume all adherents to Islam are the same. Its not right, but its what many people do.

Also, if I might chime in on @poisonedantidote responses, the impression I have is that he dislikes religion dogma as a whole. I think he would have similar issues if we were discussing the Book of Mormon or the Bible. Its not the people he dislikes, it’s the religious tenets as a whole (Am I on the right path here? Or am I somewhere out on left field?)
I don’t think he intends any disrespect to you. Like my husband, I think he tends to be a brutally honest speaker.

@QueenOfNowhere Yes, try not to be offended by @poisonedantidote his view is informative and held by many people. It is good to hear him out. He and you are not that far apart in how you feel about religion in general actually.

I see that Godwin’s Law isn’t being enforced here…

It is probably for the same reason that I am skeptical of Christians. Both religions have a history of violence (often directed at each other), both have people that interpret their Holy Scripture of choice to justify whatever they do whether it be misogyny, theft, murder, pedophilia, or whatever other depravity they choose. One other thing they share is the fact that the vast majority of their followers are decent people but that is overshadowed by the radicals. To my mind, both are quite nearly the same, and I treat both equally, but many Americans learned all they know (or want to know) about Islam on 9/11.

But there is another possibility. Ignorance is not only common, but it seems to be a virtue in current-day America. Why use your brain when others think for you? Why bother with facts when everything Rush Limbaugh and Glen Beck say is true? Combine that with a No True Scotsman logical fallacy and everybody “knows” that all Muslims are terrorists who dress funny and mutilate/kill women for no good reason.