(NSFW) Should Fluther be accepting of all confessions and the people making the confession? Read details.
This is my birthday present to @FutureMemory.
This question was brought on by a discussion in a different thread, where some users feel that Fluther should be more open-minded and accepting of unconventional confessions… specifically masturbating the family pet.
I know that the topic of consent has been discussed on Fluther before, but my question is where the line should be drawn for acceptance within the community.
Would you be accepting of someone that admitted to sexual acts with an animal?
Would you feel the same way if someone admitted to sexual acts with a human child?
What’s the difference between the two? If any?
Do you believe that if someone/something is unable to verbally consent to sex that the default assumption should be that no consent was given? Why or why not?
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107 Answers
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said “if it can’t say yes, the default should be no.”
Yes, Anuf said it best and most concisely.
I find the last topic we were in beyond disgusting. Whether it’s an animal or a toddler or a low IQ adult, to me it’s all the same topic.
I’m also pretty sure dogs don’t have sex for pleasure.
It depends on what they confess, although in general, it is better to give advice than criticise.
Mods: This is sort of a Social-Meta hybrid question, so I don’t know where it belongs…
I’m pretty open minded (3 tattoos and a bastard child, after all) but all your examples push the “icky” or “rage at the concept” button and I’m afraid I can’t welcome that stuff, even knowing I don’t have to click on it. There’s plenty of that stuff elsewhere, do we need it here, too?
@Blackberry I don’t know how to give advice to someone that thinks doing things to their pet is okay.
Yeah, nef. I knew that last thread would spawn a discussion like this.
That was an extreme illustration of the point. Honestly, it made me laugh just to see such animation on a Fluther thread. Beastiality and Pedophelia are pretty universally disliked. The fantasies exist in people who don’t necessarily want to act on them. It’s a sticky situation to say that fantasies shouldn’t be mentioned.
@SpatzieLover I don’t know much about what happened lol. I was trying to give a general answer.
@Blueroses I agree. But I also feel like admitting that you fantasize about these things, and admitting that you’ve done something which many people (myself, included) would consider to be rape… are two different things.
Fluther is a question & answer site. If someone wants to confess about being intimate with a a child or an animal and asks for guidance, then let them. Let’s face it…it happens. If a Jelly can provide help to the person asking the question, then I am all for it.
@Pied_Pfeffer well, the incident in question wasn’t someone asking for guidance. But I agree that if someone is looking for help, that it would be best to help and not judge.
When people are filter-deficient, the systems must be filter-rich. Only the governing body here can determine if such discussions are worthy of the Fluther-Filter.
I’m sorry that the young woman in the canine jack-off thread has not acquired more sensitivity around what might be wrong with that scenario. If I could give her a filter, I would. And I’m worried for the dog and the young woman.
Jesus, this is what I missed while I was antiquing today?
This reminded me more of the “what should I name my cactus?” It sparked a lot of people out of apathy and it was deliberate bating. I enjoyed the thread, gotta say.
I don’t feel that I have to accept any confession that I find abhorrent.
I find the idea of someone sexually abusing an animal abhorrent. So I would not consent.
Of course, not speaking refusal is not the same as consent.
Hahah! Ok, after being educated on the subject. I can say that, although disturbing, I still believe in free speech. I do like Fluther’s standards, but there was nothing wrong with what was actually stated and I’m sure we all know that. These things happen, and the mods deal with it accordingly.
@Blackberry just to clarify, it isn’t about modding or not modding. It’s more about the fact that some people felt the need to jump to the defense of the person who was talking about how they had sexually abused their dog. Citing that people/jellies should be more accepting of things that might be taboo.
Which ultimately lead me to wonder if the reaction would have been the same if the poster was bragging about masturbating a child, instead of an animal, since the two are equally unacceptable in my personal opinion. And personally, I don’t think that anyone should ever be accepting of rape. So… it brought about this question. Just how accepting should we be? Keeping in mind that we’re talking about action, not fantasy.
Should it be taken in context? The poster seemed to only be responding to get a rise out of others, which I thought constituted trolling. So, for entertainment value, per se. Or, if the person is seeking help for their actions? Or if they are uncertain if what they have done is wrong? I mean, where do we draw the line as a community?
Do you believe that if someone/something is unable to verbally consent to sex that the default assumption should be that no consent was given?
YES
Why or why not?
I cannot understand animal language and don’t know anyone who could translate so I’d never presume to make a move on an animal and chance offense… if I ever fancied one.
@ANef_is_Enuf I don’t want to take the bullet, but I think there’s a grey area. A child? Totally understandable and I agree with you 100%. But the dog situation isn’t black and white. We all know some dogs hump people without their consent, and we also can not verbally communicate with animals, and this is where the grey area comes in.
But see, that thread started with an assumption that the OP was a troll. She is not. She took that assumption and ran with it to see what really gets the jelly-nerves firing.
The original post was not moderatable. (invented a word there?)
Oh man, that actually made me laugh out loud.
An argument people often have about sexing children is that children can speak, they are capable of sexual urges and blah blah. My argument is that children aren’t for adults’ sexual outlet, they should be given the chance to develop, explore and come to sexual identity among their peers. There will be many more years to experience sex with adults but childhood is such a short time.
I agree with you @Blueroses. The thread was ruined by the troll hunt. It was a legitmate question. If someone has an issue with a question, isn’t it best to flag it and let the mods make the decision to delete it or not?
@Blueroses or @ANef_is_Enuf
“I knew that last thread would spawn a discussion like this.”
What was that last thread?
I’m having a hard time with this one, too. It wasn’t removable from a mod perspective (until the whole thread turned into a train-wreck), but I was pretty uncomfortable with leaving the confession in place, too. I think the best way to handle it would be to let the person know that what they’ve confessed to is shocking and outside the norm, and why it is so. In a calm, logical fashion. I know it’s hard to keep your cool in this type of situation, but we should all try.
As far as assuming the asker was a troll, right from the get-go, I’d rather not see that happen. Flag and let the mod-team decide, instead.
Do you believe that if someone/something is unable to verbally consent to sex that the default assumption should be that no consent was given? Why or why not?
Yes, I do believe that is true. It’s considered that if a man has sex with a woman who is too drunk to consent or unconscious or something, it’s rape, right? Same deal.
As for the general idea of the question, I think that if someone out and out admits that they’ve done something sexual with an animal, in a very nonchalant kind of way (as happened in that thread) – I think it should be flagged. As much as those of us who’ve been around for a while might think we know what’s up, ultimately it’s up to Auggie and the mods to decide what can and can’t fly.
@Seelix so, again, I agree to leave the modding up to the moderators… but as a community what should the reaction to confessions like that be? Ignore them? Accept them? Point out that we don’t think that kind of behavior is okay? Suggest ways to help? I mean, the real discussion wasn’t about whether or not the confession should stay.. it was what the proper reaction would be.
I definitely think that we all agree that modding should be left to the moderators. I did suspect trolling, and I still consider it trolling, but I see now that it was more of a reaction to the original accusation of being a troll than it was actual trolling from the start. (Thank goodness I didn’t have to say that outloud, because that was a mouthful.)
If someone confesses about something illegal, (and I think both of your examples are) then it is open to be called out. I didn’t read the other thread. I think I know what question it was and passe on participation
@ANef_is_Enuf – I think it’s acceptable in a situation like that to say something about it if it bothers you. In a way that isn’t out-and-out bashing, if possible. I saw the thread when it was first posted; I didn’t see what happened after the dog post, so I can’t speak for whether I think the reactions of others were appropriate. Me? It would depend on my mood and the topic, but I think I’d definitely flag it first and keep an eye on it.
Now that I’ve seen it and my face looked just like Fiddle’s! yeah, I would have been flagging and probably saying mean and rude stuff, cuz, well, ew.
My first reaction was to write something along the lines of, ”like sensationalism much, need some extra attention today?” and then write the whole thing off as a bunch of bullshit but I’m at work and bored for many hours to come so…
I once made a question about masturbating dog, it was intended as joke, though. I’m not really good at jokes, therefore I shouldn’t try again.
I believe every confession has a value in it if the they’re really looking for help, or something other than entertainment. Just give them the benefit of doubt if they sound harmful as we could sometime misinterpret one’s intention. When a question is branded as NSFW you should know that you will take the risk on your own when you read it no matter how prone to no good the question is.
Oh today is FutureMemory’s birthday? Good to you FutureMemory!
I would be accepting of these confessions and depending on the context of the confession…I’d try to help them stop, especially anything involving a human child. Animals can’t consent either but hey, I have my own story involving a pit bull that makes me reconsider those kinds of things. Do you want me to tell you about it or are you drawing the line there?
As to masturbating dogs, most handlers will tell you ( if they’re honest ) that they will occasionally masturbate a guard dog ( or other “working” dog ) to keep them calmed down.
As to sex with underage children ( < 18 ), if I find you, I will kill you. Period. End of discussion. [ That’s a generic “you” BTW. ]
Here am my birthday present to FutureMemory. He know what I mean. ;-p
You guys might remember this thread, in which there was an actual confession of pedophilia.
It is a horrifying confession, and a disgusting idea, but I thought it was one of the most valuable threads I have read here. It is not often someone will openly discuss their motivations for what is widely regarded as a heinous, unforgivable act (not to mention, illegal).
So I think we should be open to hearing shocking ideas, and having our values questioned, so that we are prepared to defend them and know that we can really get behind them.
And for what it’s worth, on the masturbating dogs issue: I think it’s gross, but I’m having trouble making a moral argument against it.
I think it is more of a buyer beware as Fluther is not immune to impostors and people just flaming away to get a rise out of people who take themselves way too seriously.
It’s like a car wreck…take a look and move along.
Oh yuck, this just reminded me of when I belonged to wis.dm and some chick said she had let a dog lick her while she was on her period. Farking absolutely revolting.
Ah, @Simone_De_Beauvoir , why do any of us exist? Are we random clumps of molecules drifting along in the universe or do we all have some divine purpose?
@JilltheTooth Are you high, as well? Was I supposed to get high too? I mean, for futurememory’s b-day, ‘cause he’d be all over that.
@Incoherency_Central Sorry, it can something be difficult to keep all the members of the extended Central family in my present memory.
@Simone_De_Beauvoir
For the purely existential joy of exploring the outer boundwees of thine collictive writing standards!
This discussion is going to drive me to drink, but I think I’m actually late with that sentiment.
This discussion may drive me away from drink.
I think my Fluther is broken
Oh my god, haha. Love the name @Incoherency :)
@ANef_is_Enuf
“This discussion is going to drive me to drink”
@Blueroses
“This discussion may drive me away from drink.”
Then I can be both of yours’s designated driver, American foxes! ;-p
I think people should be able to make all sorts of confessions, but I do agree with flagging what just seems really wrong. I can’t really say where Fluther draws the line, but alerting the staff would be a good idea. They can take it from there, and decide if they want the material on here or not. This should be my opinion as a member, but I don’t feel I can really answer constructively, aside from the following;
If need be, the authorities could also be notified.
If the person is looking for help (I remember one thread about a guy hitting his girlfriend, and he was seeking help with those acts and drinking; what he got from Fluther was very admirable) then the community might be able to help them. Rape and fucking dogs is nasty shit, but I think there are a lot more benefits to letting people confess to this stuff, unless they’re a troll.
It shouldn’t be deleted right away.
I remember an ex jelly confessing that he had had sex with a dog and I believe it was a donkey. I liked this jelly up until then. I lost all respect for him and never read another thing he posted after that. So my answer would be that you can confess your actions, but don’t expect everyone to like or respect you afterwards.
@chyna Aye. :)
Did I ever tell yall about that time I f…I mean…erm. XD
Just a bit of humour, not making light of anything here. :)
@chyna Was this confession public or via PM?
@nikipedia I finally finished reading that thread. That was heavy.
Here’s what I think. Human child: no. Animal: depends. I figure if an animal is big enough or strong enough to do something about the person trying to engage in sexual activity with them, then there is a sort of consent or non-consent. I mean, if a guy fucks a horse, and the horse doesn’t want to be fucked, there’s nothing the guy can reasonably do to continue fucking the horse.
As to the confessions thing, fluther as a whole need not be accepting about anything. In fact, many fluther members are not accepting of things that don’t hurt anybody, but there is no discussion about those things. It’s only when something that the majority of the site doesn’t like comes up that this kind of issue is raised.
Btw, I didn’t read the thread. I deliberately avoided it.
I’m going to really have to broaden my normal rule of thumb here. I have no problem with any sexual acts between consenting “beings” even if they are things I wouldn’t do myself, even if I think they are “icky,” as long as there is full, conscious consent and no exploitation, then it is up to the individuals involved as to what the do or don’t do. Animals cannot give consent, children cannot give consent, drunken and drugged people cannot give consent, people whose intellectual capacities are diminished beyond a certain point by developmental disabilities or mental illness cannot give consent. It someone or some creature cannot give consent then they haven’t given consent and you do not have their consent to engage in sexual acts with them. As to whether or not people who confess to illegal activities on fluther should be flagged or reported, that has been discussed recently and there really isn’t a good answer, I don’t think, too many things complicating it.
@KatawaGrey
“I mean, if a guy fucks a horse, and the horse doesn’t want to be fucked, there’s nothing the guy can reasonably do to continue fucking the horse.”
I agree, and the existence of Centaurs is a historical implication of consent.
To answer your question. I think one of two things, whenever I see an outrageous post. Either they are simply trying to get a rise out of people because they think it is all funny. Or they need to take their question to a priest or someone who doesn’t mind hearing crappy confessions. I know I wasn’t put on this planet to give anyone absolution, so they should just move on with their little freak show and take it to little freak web sites that cater to that stuff.
I don’t need to learn about child abuse or animal abuse or any kind of rape in any fashion. I do not want to understand their motives and I don’t want to justify it in any way nor do I wish to listen to any justifications for it.
Just because something has been done for hundreds of years doesn’t make it right. Many cultures believed in mutilation and sacrifices but it doesn’t mean it was right. Slavery existed for hundreds of years and still it doesn’t make it right.
As a society we are suppose to go forward and I like to think as fluther as a place where we can help each other go there, but I don’t think speaking to people who are simply looking to force their ill thoughts is going to help anyone. They are just looking to justify their behavior. Their minds are warp and I don’t think anything anyone says will correct that malfunction.
@JilltheTooth Please don’t call her a bastard child. She’s a fucking great kid.
@JilltheTooth I’m extremely sorry. It was an overreaction on my part. How about friggin great kid?
@Adirondackwannabe : Better, but you still got some learnin’ to do ‘bout respeckfulness, there, fella!
Okay I missed the thread in question & show up late for this one, but if I understand correctly, the “community” should accept controversial topics & maybe even offer some help to the individual in question. Laudible as that may be & good luck to anyone who feels the urge to do so, i’m not going to entertain any such thoughts personally. Any person commiting such depraved acts is immediately rendered as invalid in my book, that’s just the way it is.
@JilltheTooth Off topic as it may be, you know there aren’t two jellies I respect more than you and your kid. Well, there’s a bunch I really respect, but you two are right up there.
@Adirondackwannabe : We cool, dude! And, yes, I feel silly typing it that way. Hipster-ish, I’m not.
@Adirondackwannabe: I love being a bastard! On Father’s Day, I call my fellow fatherless friends and we do something fun sans fathers!
@JilltheTooth: It’s only hipster-ish if you typed that “ironically”. ;)
You my lady, are a great person! How’s that?
Finally he gets it right!!!
Lol! I’m a fucking great bastard kid, too. Can I join you?
damn it. I wanna be a fucking great bastard kid too :(
Hey, the fucking great bastard kids are the very bestest kids! Wish I was one!
I like the answer from @Pied_Pfeffer. It happens (apparently, even if I never knew that some things happened), so if someone wants to discuss its effects and aftermath here, then why ever not?
I still object strongly (as I once did in this forum) to questions such as “What’s the best way to arrange a three-way with my guy and another girl?” (as much as I would object to “How do you think I should masturbate the family pet?” and questions of that ilk asking for strictly prurient “advice”). It’s one thing for a person to say, “I did this and I need to deal with my feelings and consequences; how can I do that?” and it’s another thing entirely to ask for advice on how to do something objectionable (and I think it’s objectionable to use people simply for sexual gratification, regardless of how “nice” one is about it otherwise).
Bring it.
I didn’t realize it was so cool to be a fucking bastard kid.
@bob_ What do you think, my friend? You remember me and wis.dm – Is the story true?
I wish that I was antiquin’ with Fiddle. That’s all that I have to say about that, Jennay!
@Jude I wish you were too. I bought some good stuff.
With animals, I think the thing is that while I’m sure many can consent in some capacity, we don’t have the kind of communication and understanding of their minds in order to have a meeting of the minds that I’d consider to be vital to establishing consent between a human and an animal. I don’t really feel like a dog humping my leg can be taken as absolute consent. Maybe if we knew more about dogs, and could talk to them and be all “Oh, is that what you want?” “Yes – woof!!” “Ok, come here” then consent might exist, but at this point, we cannot establish a definite yes.
Best part of this thread? Fiddle’s face pic, easy.
@Blackberry and @redfeather: We should have conventions. Our motto could be, “My folks aren’t married and that’s okay!”
@KatawaGrey my parents are married though. I feel… So alone…
@redfeather : So were mine. I didn’t want to inflict that shame upon my child. ;-)
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