Does this offend gay people?

I’m not homosexual, but I am shocked that people still use that term. Is there a particular socioeconomic group or age that is using “gay” in this way? I haven’t heard “gay” used in this way since I was in middle school (mid eighties). Even then it didn’t make any sense, unless you were referring to the movie “Top Gun”.

My skin’s not that thin.

I find it totally offensive.

If a person describes something they don’t like as being “gay”, then that implies that being gay is unlikeable.

From that, I can see why some people would be offended by that usage. I certainly am.

I’ve met gay people that don’t care, and gay people that do. It depends on the individual, I guess. This can be said about anyone, because there are some who find the term “black people” offensive as opposed to “african-american”, or “white people” instead of “caucasian”.

I’m with Blackberry on this—I’ve heard the phrase used around gays who seem in no way offended—in fact, I have a gay friend who uses the phrase. The context in which I’ve heard the phrase, and in which I’ve used the phrase, is to mean it’s “over the top” with frilliness or something. That sofa is “so gay.” It does NOT imply that I don’t like it, but rather, it speaks to the aesthetic. Since some find it offensive, I’ll probably ax it from my speech.

Yea this is from when I was in university a couple of years ago.

This reminds me of my friend Susan. In a group conversation, because of her bitchy attitude, someone called her a cocksucker. She just looked at him, and said “Well, ya!”, like Of Course! And I’m Good At It!!!
It was a truely funny moment.

If I was gay it would really piss me off. I think of it this way, if someone used my nationality as an insult or my cultural heritage as an insult, I wouldn’t stand for it. I feel really bad that this phrases is so common and that some gay people have had to desensitize to it or just put up. Some of my very close friends are gay so I get very riled up with this kinda stuff :/

I don’t like it as it has a negative connotation. It means lame.

Thus, it equates gayness to lameness.

One way to tell if something is offensive is to substitute a word that you identify with. I think that you would find yourself offended if everyone used your identity word as a substitute for things being not up to snuff.

@marinelife: “I don’t like it as it has a negative connotation. It means lame.”

I think that’s what they are trying to say, and it’s too bad that university students are lacking access to a dictionary or thesaurus.

As an experiment, however, what if we tried some other terms….
– That movie is so straight.
– That movie is so African American.
– That movie is so Jewish.

Not sure we could use these and imply that the movie was bad. To me, the statement, “That movies is so gay”, is a statement about gay people as much as it is about the movie.

@Blackberry @picante I don’t see how using black is the same as using gay? Black doesn’t have a negative connotation does it? Most black people I know prefer it. Whereas even if gay people are fine with being referred to as gay, when the word is used as a way to describe someone being stupid, or idiotic, or embarrassing, that is an entirely different thing.

@tom_g You said what I basically said, but we posted at almost the exact same time so I had not read yours. People do use Jew, not Jewish, negatively like gay. Jew the price down is an example. But, it isn’t used as commonly as gay, it is less of an issue. I have only heard it used in MI of all the places I have lived.

@JLeslie It’s not the same. My point was that people are offended by all sorts of names and labels, and something that is offensive to one person may not be offensive to another.

@Blackberry I agree with that.

@Blackberry I think you nailed it. It’s the labels that bug me. If someone said “That’s so white” to me, I’d be a little ticked.

@Adirondackwannabe Yeah, like when people make a reference to someone who can’t dance very well, there may be a white person joke associated with it, but it won’t offend every white person; some may think it is funny, and some will be angry.

The only people who speak in that way are ignorant pinheads, they shouldn’t be the source of offence, more to be laughed at & ridiculed. For their views are entirely without worth, stature or meaning & with that I bid you good day sir!

@Adirondackwannabe That happens here in the mid south. Black people use white to mean right wing Republican. What bothers me about it is I am white and not a right wing Republican. At the same time other things stereotyped as white don’t bother me much. It depends how the word is being used. Like using blond to mean ditzy.

@tom_g Oh, and it is usually young people that use the term. I use to say it years ago, but my new term is “lame”. I like calling things lame that I think are….well, lame.

@Blackberry Exactly. I say that myself. Not that white guys can’t dance, but similar. I complain at clubs in the Midwest the white guys don’t dance until they are drunk, and then they can’t dance well anyway.

@Blackberry That’s the problem I think, since gay is used primarily among young people, if a gay teen is feeling insecure or unsure, or worried about being found out; when he is called gay for any reason, he is freaked.

I think people who use “gay” to mean lame, should march in their own Lame Pride parade. ;=)

Well shoot. Since I haven’t heard ‘gay’ used as lame in 30 years, I was hoping it was gone. Yes, I find it offensive, and I’d pull anyone I knew that used it aside for a private chat.

I’ve done this when a friend used the term ‘Jew them down on prices’. She was appalled, as she had no idea it was a slur, and that her family had always used it.

@JLeslie O.o That is a great point. Assuming younger people are more sensitive to these issues, it is probably way more nerve racking.

@Blackberry And, sometimes the term is used like lame, but sometimes it is used for effeminate. I remember when my BIL finally came out, his mom and sister were freaked they had commented at times on his hair and clothing as being “gay” although the word is almost worse, more like faggy. It was in a different language. The thing was, he is gay. He was wearing stereotypically what gay people wear. We all tend to dress, speak, take on mannerisms of the people we hang around, the people we associate with. But, he really did not want to be found out, so it freaked him out, but I think he did not realize what he was doing was necessarily stereotypically gay until someone pointed it out. He had to kind of bridge fitting in with his group, and how he was expected to be in general society and his family’s expectations. No wonder it can lead to an identity crisis. Probably a teenager who felt secure in his sexuality might feel a twinge of embarrassment if he is teased for his clothing choice, but then he just never wears that stuff again and blows it off, or decides he doesn’t give a damn what his stupid friends think.

Yes.

I’m not gay, but the misuse of the word still pisses me off. I play world of Warcraft yeah I’m a nerd, and a few weeks ago I bailed on a “dungeon” because everyone else kept being stupid and getting us killed. When I bailed, one of the guys in the group said “I can’t believe you ditched, Ropie, that’s so gay!” And he said it publicly in our “guild chat”, so I publicly chewed his ass out over it. I think it’s stupid when people use “gay” to mean lame or dumb.

@WillWorkForChocolate Was Leroy in your party?

While I am not homosexual, I have found my generation has adopted the word gay (and others like fag) to simply be basic insults, that don’t actually seem to have any implication of the insultee’s sexual orientation.

Language is continuously evolving, and the word gay is no different. Barely 60 years ago it had an entirely different meaning than a homosexual, and I would bet in another 60 years it will mean something entirely different again.

@tedd – Sure. Language is changing all the time. However, isn’t the word “gay” really making a commentary about homosexuals as well as the target of the adjective?

When groups of (young) men are together, there are comments like these…

- Don’t be a pussy.
– Grow a couple.
– Man up.
– What? Does your vagina hurt?

The point of these might be to pick on a man for being weak. However, these comments are really expressing feelings about women. It’s implied that it’s a negative to be like a woman. It’s implied that women are weak.

To some degree, I suspect the same thing is going on with “gay”. I could be completely wrong – admittedly, I have not heard this used since I was in middle school – but I would suspect that the person using the term “gay” either has negative feelings towards homosexuals or has yet to work out exactly how s/he feels about them.

@tom_g Well the obvious root of the word gay as an insult would have been in comparing the insultee to a homosexual, but as with most words that’s how they evolve. The word “fag” for example, was originally used to refer to homosexual men as it meant an old lady or a “twig” (if you get the innuendo). It evolved into the more accepted meaning now, of a derogatory word for a homosexual. Going even further, I’m of the opinion that the word fag is evolving again into a synonym for jerk or asshole. I even have homosexual friends who routinely use the word fag as an insult.

Basically going back to the original point of the post/response…. The word was rooted as an insult to homosexuals or in calling people homosexuals, but I think its simply evolving into a synonym for “lame.” I mean, how do you think gay came to “mean” a homosexual person?

No offence intended at all here. But homosexuals bring it on themselves, their attitude is ‘in-your-face’ gay, it’s as if they have to let you know it. There is nothing wrong with being gay, so why put on the usually flambouyant behaviour!?

I’ve never met a ‘straight’ person who is ‘in-your-face’ straight.

I’m not a homosexual either, but if I was I would be offended. However, I think the majority of people who say it, don’t use the word to actively show their disgust or disapproval of gay people.

When I was in school my Italian teacher used to punish anyone who said the word gay (in a derogatory way) by picking up rubbish and it was good because it taught you to be aware of the way you were using the word and realizing how easily it was said without thinking.

It is still a very much used term in society. My sister says it (hesitantly) sometimes and she knows it’s wrong, but it’s so deeply embedded. Awareness really is the key to making people think twice, like was mentioned above, you wouldn’t say, “that song is so Jewish!”

@thebluewaffle I have…. and damn she was an “aggressive” one ;) lol

@tedd I get what you’re trying to say, but it has still evolved from a previous meaning of “homosexual” and this evolution has stages of developments.

Its the same as “pussy” which is now an bonafide insult and no women are insulted by it however it stems from considering women to be weak and cowardly.

@Jellie Gay didn’t previously mean homosexual, it meant happy or jubilant. Back in the 40’s it would not have been socially awkward to say “I had a gay day today.” or “Well that was a really gay party.” In fact they would have been positives or compliments. It evolved into homosexual’s because they were “happy” or “gay” back in the 60’s in how they acted or what have you.

Pussy started as a word for vagina and then evolved into an insult based on the assumption of women being weak sure I’ll give you that. But I’ve met many a woman who still uses it in the previous incarnation of it just being another name for their vagina while in the throws of passion. If you go over to England you’d find it evolved entirely differently, as it’s used to refer to someone who is affectionate or concerned with others (like if you saved a kitten or something, you could be called a pussy, but its actually a compliment).

If it didn’t mean “lame” in context, I wouldn’t care.

@tedd I’ve lived in England and I haven’t heard it used in a complimentary context

Also your answer made me think, did it evolve from meaning “happy” into meaning homosexual because the gay community is seen as over-the-top and loud?

@Jellie Well I guess that may be incorrect (I’ve been told that’s a meaning though). But the point stands, its just an ever-evolving word. The only ones that I don’t think would evolve are things like “jewish” or “asian”, as those have always (and will always) have set “parameters” as to what they refer to.

But even so, taking them negatively is all in the eye of the beholder. If I called someones budget for themselves “impressively Spartan” I doubt the Spartans (were they alive today) would take offense to me comparing someones austerity to their own.

@tom_g “When groups of (young) men are together, there are comments like these…”
—Don’t be a pussy.
– Grow a couple.
– Man up.
– What? Does your vagina hurt?

I have to say as a female, I cringe when I hear a guy say any of these things, it instantly puts me off.

@Jellie “Its the same as “pussy” which is now an bonafide insult and no women are insulted by it however it stems from considering women to be weak and cowardly”

I think to say no women are insulted by it, is just wrong.

Anyway…back on topic a bit. Even to use the word “lame” instead of “gay” is offending people with actual physical illnesses or deformities. Gee trying to insult people without insulting other people is hard these days!~

@tedd it’s not in the eyes of the beholder though. For example I was standing with my gay friend who suggested watching this movie to me an another girl. The other girl frowned and said no way do I wanna watch it, that’s such a gay movie. Obviously meaning it to be a bad movie and using the word gay instead.

@Keep_on_running no I shouldn’t have said “no” women are insulted. I know I get angry as hell with anyone using the word pussy as an insult, especially when women themselves say it.

@Blackberry LOL, pretty much!

@tedd – I want to make sure I understand what you’re saying. Are you saying that “gay” has now evolved into a word that no longer means homosexual (well, at least in the context of something being negative, like “that movie is so gay”)?

I suppose that’s possible. I have no idea what the kids are talking like these days. Do you think that people who use this word in this context would use it if they were hanging out with people who happened to be homosexual? I would imagine that there is some part of the speaker that might self-edit or choose a different word. Who knows, maybe I’m wrong here.
But I completely agree that language is a fluid, living thing. If it has evolved into something altogether different, I’d love to see data on who is using the word this way. It sounds like it may have made a resurgence among college students or recent college graduates. Were these kids using this up through middle and high school, or did it reappear in popular culture rather suddenly?

@thebluewaffle – Is that satire in an attempt to stir the pot?

@thebluewaffle In case you’re not joking, there are “in your face” straight men all over the place. They are usually sports fans or guys that drive huge pickup trucks that are raised 10 feet lol.

As a queer person, I find its usage stupid and inappropriate. It doesn’t offend me, because there is so much wrong with the world, I just have to let some of it go..however, I think less of a person who refuses to stop using the phrase even after I let them know it’s problematic.

Here is the history on the meanings of gay in case anyone is interested.

@tom_g Excellent point. It really makes my blood boil when someone makes a comment that implies a male or female stereotype. I’ve discussed my dislike of these terms with them privately as well, including with a few on Fluther, even if it is not directed at me.

Twice I’ve been told that I have balls for doing something brazen and another for being confrontational with an office bully for picking on a co-worker about her religion. While I realize it was meant as a compliment, it is really a verbal slap in the face to all women and men who are not comfortable with taking risks. What was interesting is that both comments directed to me were made by women.

@thebluewaffle I beg to differ. Homosexuals do not bring it upon themselves. What does is people who are freaked out by the fact that others can be attracted to people of the same sex. Not all members of the LGBT community are open about their sexual status because they fear judgement, and worse, repercussions from those that lack empathy for their situation. What seems really weird to me is that most of it is based upon religious beliefs. Not all, but most.

I have a fair amount of friends who are gay, and the vast majority of them are not flamboyant. It felt like an honor of trust when they were comfortable enough to tell me what they didn’t feel should be public knowledge just yet, if ever.

In my experience, straight people are more vocal about being straight, whether they mean to or not. Women flaunt their engagement rings, people bring their partners to parties…the list goes on. Many years ago, I found out that several friends suspected me of being gay because I never talked about going out on dates. I also shared a house with a guy for eight years, and it took two years before he told me that he was gay.

@Pied_Pfeffer: “In my experience, straight people are more vocal about being straight”

Of course they are. I agree. They also have an entire society as a support system – a society that aggressively promotes heterosexuality as though it needs promotion. It’s absurd. I really think @thebluewaffle might have just been trying to get people going by throwing that in there (I hope).

Although I am not gay, I have gay relatives, a couple of gay friends, and I work with and serve gay people everyday, just like I do the hetero’s. I find it incredibly offensive.

@Jellie I would think that a perfect example of it being in the eye of the beholder. Your friend was insulted because he is homosexual and took the word gay as a comparison of something bad to homosexuals. Had I been there I would have taken it as meaning the movie is bad, not similar to homosexual’s. I of course understand his sensitivity to the word, as in my explanation its still in the “process” of changing to a new meaning, but I highly doubt your friend meant to imply that the movie is similar to homosexuals, and hence bad as a result.

@tom_g I would be hesitant to say its completely evolved, but yes in my opinion at least it is headed in that direction. Rarely do I use the word gay to refer to something homosexual, and almost always it is after someone else has used it first (and I still tend to use just “homosexual”). I will use it somewhat often though to refer to things I just generally find boring/lame/etc.

I for one embrace stereotypes (gender, racial, sexual, etc). I’m all about laughing at one another, so long as you’re ok with laughing at yourself too. I like to joke that I’m so pale I can hide in snow…. Its all very… Dave Chappelle, lol.

I don’t personally find it to be that offensive, though I have friends who avoid using it around me. I have never asked them to do that, though I have asked them to not use “faggot” around me. They wouldn’t use “cunt” around a girl, so what makes this any different?

Anyway, the reason people find it offensive is because it creates an association between homosexuality and negativity. It DOESN’T MATTER if you are not talking about homosexuals when you say that movie is “gay”. Obviously you’re not talking about homosexuals. But the problem is that you are creating an association between the word for homosexual and negativity. Think about it. Why do you think the word “gay” even means “stupid”? Because being gay is seen as a stupid, bad thing by many people. That doesn’t mean that every person who uses gay to mean “stupid” thinks that, they don’t. But that is the reason why the definition exists in the first place and using it strengthens that association for many people.

I happen to think the term is just stupid and is a sign of a lack of a descriptive vocabulary; it does not offend me. But I can understand why others are offended by it. And to claim that the word “gay” has evolved to no longer mean homosexual is absurd; tell that to the millions of gay people who identify as “gay”.

@thebluewaffle the gay people in your face might be the ones you notice, but there are gay people all over the place just blending in. I happen to like flamboyant gay men, I find them funny, and loving, and over the top, and I like it. I don’t want to repress all the very different types of people there are out there. And, I second @Blackberry, especially among men, there are macho, idiot, sports loving, controlling, super heterosexual men out there. If I had to choose, give me the outrageous gay people. But, we should not have to choose, and either should they. I like when men have a strong side and a feminine side. I like when women are feminine and also powerful. I am not sure if you were referring to some gay people seeming rather angry, sometimes I feel that, and their quick anger can cause them to get in your face in a different way. That makes me sad actually, because I know it comes from people having treated them poorly.

@DominicX Great answer!

@DominicX it doesn’t matter to me that when gay is used it is not being used to mean homosexual, what matters to me is that gay people are, or might be offended, and it is understandable when they are because it is said regarding something negative. I just want to make sure I am clear on that before I ask my question. In your experience you believe people associate gay people with being stupid? I have never heard this stereotype, it never occurred to me. I also think words can change in meaning so much the previous definition is moot. Gay, back in the day, meant happy. I have no idea if gay men were perceived as happy? For them to adopt this term. I am not sure how it came about that homosexuals are now called gay?

@JLeslie I am not the person you asked obviously, but to my knowledge (which is admittedly somewhat limited) that is how gay came to refer to homosexuals. Back in the 60’s their flamboyant or “fun” life style (think like the old biker club type thing) was called “gay” since gay meant happy or fun. The name stuck and eventually picked up the negative connotation as people took offense to being called homosexual or “gay”.

@tedd Have you ever heard of a stereotype of gay people being stupid? Do you think that went along with that whole happy go lucky thing?

@tedd I can accept that the word may one day evolve into meaning bad without any reference to homosexuality. But it has evolved from people who considered being gay something lame/negative and that is where it takes its roots from.

@JLeslie

“Stupid” in my context is just a general negative adjective (GNA): dumb, stupid, lame, gay, retarded, bullshit, annoying, shitty, crappy, etc. I didn’t mean “stupid” as in “unintelligent”, although obviously the use of stupid as a GNA comes from its meaning “unintellligent”. If you say a movie is “stupid” it doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s not cerebral, it could just mean that it’s a bad movie. “Gay” got lumped in with all these other GNAs because of its meaning “homosexual” because that was viewed as negative and insulting, and thus calling something like a movie “gay” is a way to show that it’s bad or lame.

@DominicX Makes sense now. I wasn’t thinking of stupid being used in the way you presented, I was thinking less intelligent. Thanks.

@JLeslie No I’ve never heard a stereotype of homosexuals being stupid. In fact some of the ones I know are quite smart.

@Jellie I’m pretty sure it evolved from the comparison of homosexual culture being jubilant and “gay” rather than an ironic use of the word gay to describe something lame.

The negative connotation of lame or stupid didn’t come along until straight people were being called “gay” as an insult, and those straight people taking offense to that. Eventually gay was deemed a bad thing, and insult in and of itself, and in my opinion at least it is evolving to the point where it means a bad thing or an insult that doesn’t have any comparisons or implications of homosexuality.

Such language usage subtly and often unintentionally continues to associate homosexuality (in its multiple forms) with something distasteful and ugly if not worse.

How we speak or what speech we accept, colours our speech and reinforces (often negative) attitudes in ourselves and others.

That is why any hate speech, no matter to what group if refers, and no matter how mild it may seem to be is harmful in society. This is not merely an issue of “political correctness.”

@Dr_Lawrence Hate speech, yes. Insults not intended to single out a group though is not hate speech. If I called someone a “fucker” or an “asshole” you would not assume that to be hate speech (as in hatred towards a specific group of people, obviously I wouldn’t be fond of the person). If I call a movie I’m watching or a boring day at work “lame” or “stupid” I doubt you would call that hate speech. The same is slowly becoming of words like gay, that didn’t even mean homosexual to begin with, they are losing that association to homosexuals.

And while I agree hate speech is harmful to society, the ability to express ones anger or distaste for a situation via “colorful” language… while not really beneficial towards our overall intelligence, is imo extremely beneficial to society.

@tedd: “The same is slowly becoming of words like gay, that didn’t even mean homosexual to begin with, they are losing that association to homosexuals.”

I think this is really what we’re talking about. “Slowly becoming”? If someone was around me and my friends or family and said, “That movie is so gay”, the term gay would not be considered a synonym for stupid. I would be willing to bet that I am not alone. So, even if it’s ok in some circles to use this word, it may not be elsewhere. There is some inherent risk. Why not find a better word? How about a word that isn’t meant to represent a group of people?

Also, when I was young and kids used this saying, it was not meant as merely a synonym for stupid. It was more powerful because it was really a statement about homosexuals, and a vocal assertion of one’s heterosexuality. I think it’s closely related to misogyny like I mentioned above.

@tom_g Because the word gay wasn’t meant to represent a group of people, it was meant to be an adjective. And I refuse to bow my use of a word simply because someone else takes offense to it. As if my calling someone homosexual should be an insult to begin with.

If I want to insult someone, I’m not going to try and call them homosexual, via any of the derogatory or alternative names for homosexuals.. I don’t consider that an insult… I’m going to just call them an ass or some synonym of that.

@tedd: “Because the word gay wasn’t meant to represent a group of people, it was meant to be an adjective. And I refuse to bow my use of a word simply because someone else takes offense to it.”

Here’s where we disagree. The word “gay” in the context of “That movie is gay” is not derived from “happy”. It’s derived from a group of people called homosexuals as an insult.

I suppose you get around that with “And I refuse to bow my use of a word simply because someone else takes offense to it.”

I’m not accusing you of consciously attacking homosexuals when you use the word (if you do). Is it possible, however, that you are overlooking the fact that you’re using a word in a way that a) represents a group of people, and b) was used in the context we discussing as a pejorative term?

I think it’s one of those things that hits some people negatively, but others don’t find it significant to take offense at.
I don’t use ‘gay’ to describe anything negative because I think it’s an unfitting term and sounds stupid used in that context. I do consider it insulting, though I’m not gay myself so I can’t really be personally insulted.

@tom_g I would argue what matters most are the people who are offended. The lady down the street from me, and several jellies, think it is just fine for her to have her confederate flag out in front of her house. They will argue it is not racist and no one should be offended, But those who view that flag as a hateful flag have good reason to be offended, even if she doesn’t have a racist bone in her body. She s ignoring the impact of the symbol on the minority. Same with using gay, and other similar terms, it is ignoring the experience of the minority.

It’s a term that started out as one thing, and now means another. And the only people keeping the homosexual connotation to the term gay are the ones who raise up issue with it. Hell there may be a good chance that the next generation wouldn’t even know gay had to do with homos if it weren’t for the people who kept bringing that part of it up!

@mrrich724 I don’t see how gay hasn’t much to do with so called homos because most are more likely to use the former rather than the latter to identify their sexuality.

@mrrich724 “Homos” is extremely insulting. If I were you, I’d strike it from your vocabulary immediately.

Using the word “gay” to imply “bad” or “lame” is offensive to many people, myself included. Once a person knows that, the kind and considerate thing to do is, you know, not use it anymore.

@mrrich724

Why do people keep saying this? Have you honestly never met any gay people who call themselves “gay”? Maybe it’s a California thing, but practically everyone here uses “gay” to mean “homosexual”.

Crap. Obviously, I meant “If I were you, I’d strike it from MY vocabulary immediately.”

@DominicX Definitely not a CA thing. Every gay person I know calls themselves “gay”.

@DominicX – Here in Massachusetts, every gay person I know calls themselves “gay”. There’s also people referring to LGBT community, and if I’m not mistaken, the G does not stand for “green”.

Yea, that’s my point, I know homosexuals don’t like being called “homos.” I was trying to illustrate that there are worse things out there to say than assigning something unfavorable as “gay” with no thought of homosexuality anyway. Hell, before someone decided gay referred to homosexuals it meant happy. The word ONLY HOLDS AS MUCH WEIGHT AS YOU ALLOW IT TO.

Also, it’s not a west coast thing. I was born, raised, and currently reside on the east coast. I lived in LA for two years.

Speaking of me never having met gay people with preferences for certain semantics, my godmother (who is also my aunt and one of my closest family members and best friends) is homosexual. And she’s of the group that pretty much only identifies with other homosexuals in friends and acquaintances, so growing up I’ve been exposed to many many many homosexuals. I even lived with one in Los Angeles for a time. They ALL have referred to something as gay on more than one occasion, as in “that’s gay” (and no, not in a homosexual way). I very rarely heard them refer to themselves as gay. . . I think (but don’t know for sure) that they just decided to be beyond it so they didn’t really refer to their orientation at all, so there was no need for the word. If you knew them, you knew their orientation, and if you didn’t know them, there is no need for them to tell you what they are…

Give it so much attention and it becomes a big deal because you make it one. They chose not to do that.

If anything, when they referred to themselves in terms of their orientation, they used queer as the identifier.

As in “I’M HERE, I’M QUEER, AND I WANT BEER”

@tom_g Well if I had to sift through my vocabulary in conversation to remove any word that might potentially hurt someones feelings because of a meaning attached to it 50 years ago, I would never get a sentence out. It may just be my generation, but gay is quickly losing its homosexual implication. I have homosexual friends who use it in the “lame/stupid” context on a frequent basis.

@tedd: “It may just be my generation, but gay is quickly losing its homosexual implication. I have homosexual friends who use it in the “lame/stupid” context on a frequent basis.”

You may be right that your generation just completely changed the word. All I can say is that you may want to be careful because we’re not talking about “50 years ago”. If you are visiting Massachusetts anytime soon, your “generation’s” perceived co-opting of the word might be taken in the wrong way.

Also, if my 39-year-old gay friend, who grew up with “that movie is so gay” meaning gay is bad context, bumping into a bunch of young hipster straight guys who are unaware of the recent use of that term might take offense. And more importantly, it might make you just look like a complete asshole. It doesn’t matter if a bunch of youngins start using “Jew the price down” as something harmless that doesn’t intend to insult Jews. It would be completely understandable for Jews to wonder what the f*ck is happening.

If you use the plasticity of language and analyze the evolution of “gay”...

1. happy -> homosexual

2. happy -> homosexual -> synonym for stupid/criticism of homosexuality

…where does your new use fall? To me, it seems that it…

3. happy -> homosexual -> synonym for stupid/criticism of homosexuality -> synonym for stupid

Even if we assume that you are right (for the sake of this discussion), and the term has evolved in a few (< 15 years) so that the term – for a small group of a particular age, mostly straight people – merely stands in for “stupid”, the etymology is important.

I think we’re probably talking past each other here. To summarize – it doesn’t mean what you think it means for a large part of the population. The recent origin of the context was not harmless. Language is a way to communicate. Even if I’m completely out of the loop of the recent (<15 years) evolution of this term within a certain population, I think words that do not communicate sufficiently are words that don’t work.

@tom_g I just fail to see why I should avoid using a word, that has already evolved multiple times from its original meaning, because some people think or mean it to be derogatory towards homosexuals by simply calling people homosexual…. as if that’s some kind of insult. As if I was watching a stupid movie and called it gay, and someone thought I meant homosexual… And they get offended…. so ignoring for the moment that I don’t mean homosexual at all, they are perceiving being a homosexual as a bad thing… not me.

@tedd: “I just fail to see why I should avoid using a word…”

Don’t. Just keep using it.

@tedd @mrrich724 the fact is that the word “gay” to mean lame hasn’t evolved naturally. It has evolved from homophobic and demeaning attitude. People would call something gay because they meant to say it was as bad as being gay or homosexual. Now that homosexuality is better accepted maybe everyone doesn’t use it in that context but we cannot ignore where it took it’s meaning from. Gay didn’t start meaning “lame” out of the blue. It took the meaning or evolved into that meaning from people hating homosexuals.

Don’t stop using the word but you can’t deny where the meaning came from.

I don’t think the word ‘gay’ should NOT be compared with something thats ‘lame’ or whatever. I think it’s completely offensive.

@tedd I’ll give you a reason to quit using it in a derogatory manner. Making a comment that something is so gay (lame) is still offensive to many people, whether they are a member of the LGBT community or not.

Some people will continue to use a derogatory term unless around a person that might take offense. For example, some men don’t use the words they do around other men when a female is present. It’s the same for racial and nationality slurs. The challenge is that, in the case of using ‘gay’, you just don’t know who it might offend based upon physical features. I’ve worked with and for several people who were gay or lesbian. I didn’t know it at the time. Imagine if you were in this situation and made a comment like, “Boss, please don’t put me on another shift with Bill. His work is so gay.” Better yet, put yourself in your co-worker’s place. How would you feel about it?

If you have any empathy on this, then just stop using it in this fashion. You might not ever be confronted for using the term, or someone may tell you how they feel about it. The worst thing that could happen to you is that you lose the respect of others.

If it really doesn’t matter to you, then @tom_g is correct…just keep using it.

@mrrich724 “Yea, that’s my point, I know homosexuals don’t like being called “homos.” I was trying to illustrate that there are worse things out there to say than assigning something unfavorable as “gay” with no thought of homosexuality anyway.” – awww, thanks…gee, now I feel better.

@Jellie I’m not denying it, but then by the same token you can’t deny the fact that it was originally derived from a synonym for happy or jubilant, and its base original meaning had nothing to do with homosexuality.

@Pied_Pfeffer I don’t use racial or ethnic slurs because those are inherently tied to a specific race or ethnicity. Gay was adopted to mean gay, and now it is being adopted again into a new meaning. Put me in their place in your examples and I wouldn’t care. I have gay friends like I’ve pointed out, who use the word themselves and for years were closet homosexuals in our presence while we (and they) used the word gay to mean lame or stupid… with no apparent repercussions.

Despite popular belief words cannot break someone, and the amount of emotional hurt they do is reflected in however much weight you put into the word. Even if you think someone is using a word to describe you in a derogatory manner, so the hell what? It doesn’t make you any less of a person, let them wallow in their ignorance. And moreover if the word isn’t even being used in a derogatory manner and the person using it has no grudge whatsoever with a race/ethnicity/sexuality that it has been previously used to describe…. then really who the heck cares?

You people are all so emotional about words. Our language has evolved so much in merely the past 100 years that you would barely be able to find your way around a city if you magically transported back to 1900. Go back to 1000 and the English language would be completely alien to you. Words change meanings, just as gay has at least 3 times in the past 60 years alone. Get over it, here are real problems in the world and you guys are arguing about hurt feelings because someone used a 3 letter word to describe you as a group of people who like others of the same sex…. Again, as if being a homosexual is inherently a bad thing to begin with.

@tedd I’m addressing this to you only because I know you fairly well (from here). I know you’re not a terrible person. I do think, however, that you’re being incredibly stubborn about this, maybe to make some kind of point. I cannot, for the life of me, understand why anyone would knowingly using a word that is offensive to many, many people. It doesn’t really matter whether you think it shouldn’t be… the fact remains that it is. Why be unnecessarily hurtful? Please consider changing your mind on this one.

Additionally, I don’t think your generation actually has changed the meaning of the word. My children are all in their teens, so presumably they are younger than you. They don’t use it and neither do most of their friends. It’s not uncommon today to hear about one teenager calling another out for using ‘gay’ to mean ‘lame’.

@Pied_Pfeffer You have to really know a person to know what slurs and generalizations you can toss around. You can’t just look at them and assume. On a different question I talked about how people say negative things about Mexicans around me, they don’t ever guess I am married to a Mexican.

@tedd Maybe sticks and stones break bones, but words don’t hurt, but when hate and violence feel real in our minds the words are fucking scary sometimes. If a neonate looking guy wearing a swastika starts talking about hating the Jews, I am afraid not offended. Even if he would never harm a fly, I don’t know that in my head. Gay people have had violence against them, as have women, and blacks, and Native Americans, and more. What I think you miss is we the minority tend to feel vulnerable, or I will speak for myself, I sometimes feel vulnerable. I am not easily offended, when someone says some bullshit about Jews or Mexicans and they seem harmless I just chalk it up to them being idiots, but it depends on the situation. I have no idea if you are a minority or not, maybe you can identify with what I am saying.

And, back to my first sentence, many times words do hurt, especially young people, it can be extremely damaging depending on the child.

Words DO hurt. Sometimes the damage they cause takes far longer to heal than the damage caused by sticks and stones.

@JLeslie Excellent point. That’s why they shouldn’t be used at all.

@tedd: “Gay was adopted to mean gay, and now it is being adopted again into a new meaning.”

You keep saying this despite the fact many have pointed out that words don’t “reset”. For example, go ahead and “reset” the term “n*gger” to mean “rotten”. It doesn’t matter if you really are just using that collection of characters to mean “rotten” – you’ve chosen a word that has a particular history.

I’ve been Gay ever since I can remember, and I use that word all the time… “man is that ever gay…” and what not…

I am GAY… so who cares man?

Its funny the str8 peeps here think its offensive…

Maybe the GAYS in here who are offended are in the closet str8s!