If an amusement park has a ban against headgear on rides, do you think they should allow Muslims to wear their traditional head scarves (hajib) on the rides?

Let them wear their head scarves, I say. Have some respect.

Why is it not allowed?

If it is a safety rule then you have to remove them, that is just logical. If it is some kind of park policy, then stop going to that park. I think the park should be able to impose any rules they like, even if it is a stupid rule.

I should have added, in case anybody doesn’t read the articles and comments, that the gist of the comments state that now the park is probably going to be sued by people saying they’re denied their right to religious freedom, but if somebody died from an issue with the scarf, they would then sue for that. By my not adding that point to my question, I maybe did not make clear the controversy.

The people bitching, do you really need to wear any sort of headgear (non Muslims)? Probably not.

If there’s not supposed to be anything on your head, then there’s not supposed to be anything on your head. Period. If it encroaches on your religious freedom, too fucking bad. No scarves means no scarves, no matter who you are.

I think the park is in the right here. If you dont like the policy you dont have to go. Its not an antimuslim policy or else they wouldnt be able to wear their hajib at all in the park. They just cant wear it on the ride for safety reasons. They need to quit bitching and realize not everything is about fuckin religion.

If it’s a safety rule then you just need to stop being a dick and take them off. You freedom of religion is not imposed on at all, you can still put your head in a bag because you think it has something to do with the meaning of life any other place you like.

When have there been 15 arrests because someone was told to take their hat off? Leave it to Muslims to make a mountain out of an anthill. Let me guess, Allahu akbar?

Okay, if safety is an issue, I change my answer. Don’t go on the rides, if you are not going to remove your head gear.

I would think that this rule should by prominently posted at the park entrance. I could understand people getting upset if they pay the full entrance fee and then discover that many of the park’s attractions will be off-limits to them.

I agree with @jca here. It’s all very well throwing around the “religious rights” card but if something went horribly wrong due to the park making exceptions for Muslims, they would probably find themselves being sued by the very same people that were shouting and screaming about religious rights.

Like @thorninmud I think it should be made obvious that head gear is not allowed on the rides before anyone has paid to get in if it isn’t already.

It’s a park rule for safety, take them off or go to a different ride.

@thorninmud Good point, and I would assume they would be posted at the rides, but outside the park is more efficient.

Why are all the muslims on the kid’s rides? Lol.

So… just because you can’t do something, you want to screw it up for other people who can? Real classy.

The amusement park officials made it a special day to celebrate the end of Ramadan. They were in contact with the Muslim American Society who organized the day. The park officals let the society know the rules in advance. This doesn’t necessarily mean that the rules were communicated or passed onto any Muslims not affiliated with the group.

The safety issue makes sense. I wonder how the rules are posted around the park. Amusement parks are usually clear about not allowing people below a certain height on a ride, warning pregnant women, etc. Surely they post something about not wearing anything on their head if it is a rule. Otherwise, the park would be setting itself up for a lawsuit waiting to happen.

In this case, I disagree with those disputing the banning of burka/hijabs. The argument given, other than religion, is that they are worn low and tight. That may be, but there is still a chance that one could become loose and fly away. In looking at the rides that the park offers, some of them are going to generate a lot of wind force. If keeping their head scarf intact is so important to their religious beliefs, they should avoid some of these rides, whether it is allowed or not.

This reminds me of a case where I live, a while ago a couple Muslim women wearing a hijab were turned away from an amusement park because they refused to take them off when asked. Something about hygiene when swimming in the water (if I can remember correctly, my memory is horrible). They sued the company and received a cash payout. I personally don’t think there should be exceptions to a rule, especially on religious grounds, some say it’s discrimination, but what comes first the law or religious tolerance…and should that be law? Hmm…

I agree that it depends on the reason for the rule. Since it says it’s a safety concern, the rule should absolutely apply to everyone. If it were just an arbitrary rule, then I think Muslims should be allowed to wear their scarves. It’s no big deal for somebody to remove a hat if they’re just wearing it for fashion reasons, but for many of these Muslims, they’d probably choose to leave the park before they would remove their scarves, since wearing the scarves is very important to them. It’d be silly for the park to lose business just to uphold an arbitrary rule.

Going to an amusement park is not a “right” – I don’t think the argument that they’re being denied rights holds water. It only seems wrong because it seems discriminatory. But it isn’t truly discriminatory – it’s not the amusement park’s fault that some of their patrons wear clothing that happens to be dangerous.

A Six Flags near here had to close down one of their roller coasters recently because a man flew off the ride and fell to his death. This man was an Iraq war veteran and had lost both of his legs – he had prosthetics. The safety strap could not hold him in because of his prosthetics. People who are missing limbs are not supposed to be allowed on rides. It’s the same concept – it sucks to be denied something just because you are a part of a group, and it feels discriminatory, but the rule is in place for our own safety, not to oppress us.

It is a safety issue. If the end got caught in the machinery something horrible could happen.

It’s pretty black and white. Loose clothing around machinery is always a hazard. Take em off or don’t ride.

Whats the deal with the safety helmets in the park?

Also, the Muslims must remember that they are in America and not their homeland, anymore.

@john65pennington America is the homeland for many Muslims.

@john65pennington Ouch….

@john65pennington yea… that was a bit much…

@john65pennington I love Toronto. Such a diverse city with many cultures and religions, and people are extremely tolerant.

Actually the helmet idea has some merit. If they were to keep everything under a helmet, so there is no loose cloth that would accomplish allowing them to ride and keeping the headgear.

The MAS group that organized this out screwed up on this one plain and simple. There were lot’s of emails between the head of the MAS chapter that inquired about head scarves rules and even asked for clarification and “forgot” to include this on the flier…

A string of emails obtained by The Journal News between Playland Event coordinator Adam Harvey and MAS New York president Hatem Gawaly included questions about the head scarves Muslim women wear.

“I need to get more details please about whether a burka/hijab constitutes as a head gear,” Gawaly wrote to Harvey on July 19. “There will be a lot of commotion about this.”

Harvey responded on July 23: “The head gear RULES are there for safety and they will not change them even for a big group. I am sorry

Having just been to an amusement park, I noticed many rules not being followed. One ride said no earrings, yet no one took their earrings off. Another said to keep your arms down at all times. Didn’t happen.

I’m curious if these people were singled out when no one else was. I can’t really make a comment until I know the circumstances.

Honestly. If you tuck that shit in tightly nothing is going to happen. I wonder how all this went down.

The management of the park may not actually have a say in the matter. It might be a condition laid down by their insurers.

@tinyfaery Valid point. They may very well have been singled out. The feelings of some Americans towards muslims and islam are not hidden lol.

There have been two deaths at Playland in the last few years, and then they revised their rules and they are very strict about them.

I was there once about four years ago and a worker was walking, apparently on his break, talking on a cell phone. The administrators were at a table outside, doing paperwork, and one noticed the kid on the cell phone. He asked the kid why he had a phone when he knows the rules are no cell phones are to be used by employees. The kid said “my mother’s sick.” The administrator said “Well you know the rule is you have to turn the phone in and if someone needs to get hold of you, they can call the main number.” I was impressed and I realized they really are enforcing all the rules, because they can’t afford any more fatalities.

A loose headscarf could catch round someone’s neck and choke them, or it might blow onto the rails causing a serious accident. I think the Amusement Park was right to enforce their policy.

I want to add the last time I was on rollercoasters my readers came flying out of my shirt pocket and I am sure ricocheted off of someones noggin behind me!

What about Sihks and turbans? 6 foot of free flowing hair is not safer than it all tied up under a turban.

It’s a safety issue, a concern the amusement park wants to negate in order to avert gross shite happening like a scarf tail swiping along and getting entangled on some equipment to where it yanks someone’s head off or loose from their neck or torso. As someone wrote, if an accident did happen, say a sprained neck or rash across the face then I’d gamble that person would try to sue the amusement park.

@Keep_on_running In that example, it sounds like a valid case for a lawsuit. Based upon the limited information you posted, I’d be willing to side with the people who were banned.

I agree with @Adirondackwannabe Offering helmets with a chin strap should solve the issue.

@Cruiser Thank you for the additional details. Even if the information was published in the Muslim American Society’s flyer, it doesn’t necessarily mean that every Muslim who went to the park had access to it, much less read it. If the park officials want to prevent a lawsuit, they need to post the specifics and stick to them. That requires training park staff members on not only how to deal with these situations, but why. Discrimination and potential lawsuits should be included.

To all: So far, this does not sound like a case of discrimination.

Am I the only one thinking:
1. It’s quite surprising to have such anti-religion sentiment on this matter. They simply can’t remove the scarves, it would undo the whole point and they shouldn’t be restricted in their movement. Perhaps it is a safety issue but I’d guess they certainly don’t care to bend the rules a little because these are Muslims which brings me to

2. If this had to do with Christians and crosses, people here would be much more uppity and against the park. Just look up and see how many people used curse words in their reply. That kind of thing against Christianity isn’t as tolerated.

I wanted to take my purse on one ride and the attendant said I had to store it. I got into the ride, tucked my purse into the seatbelt, like I always do, then the attendant said go ahead. I guess this place has decided to be so unilateral with their rules (as if they can’t train their employees to spot what might and might not be dangerous) that they would rather be discriminatory, and lose business, then to treat people with some respect. Oh, well.

The problem with this is that people don’t like the concept of “religious exemption”. If it’s a safety rule and applies to everyone, then theoretically, they should follow it, since they are a part of “everyone”. People don’t want to hear “oh, they can wear headwear because of their religion, but you can’t”. The rule either has to be equal across the board or it shouldn’t exist.

I honestly just don’t think it’s that big of a deal. Is there any evidence that wearing headwear like that is any real risk to safety?

I’m speaking for others because I honestly don’t know how I feel about this, though I probably agree with the first paragraph. It seems Muslim headwear makes the headlines a few times a year…

@Pied_Pfeffer I believe the Park has covered all the bases pretty thoroughly here including training of the park staff of these types of issues…

“Westchester County Deputy Parks Commissioner Peter Tartaglia said Wednesday that the Playland amusement park’s staff undergoes sensitivity training at the beginning of each season to teach them how to deal with patrons of various backgrounds, including Muslims.”

@Cruiser Thank you for tracking down that article. It supports the fact that this issue is about the safety of all and not singling out a specific group.

Here’s one example of loose clothing that caused a roller coaster to stop. I would look for more examples if I had the time.

It’s a safety issue. Why is that so difficult to understand?

Also, it’s called Hijab.

Does this mean I can’t wear my spaghetti strainer in an ironic, douchey fashion?

@jonsblond if it were a safety issue then why don’t they make you strip naked?

@Joker94: Also, it’s called a collander.

@jca Just gonna take that as a no..

@Joker94: you’re putting words in my mouth.

No one has to visit an amusement park or go on the rides. And it is not a requirement of anyone’s religion that they be allowed to ride a roller-coaster.

The park is doing nothing whatsoever to interfere with anyone’s religious practice. What commercial park reaches into the lives of private individuals and prevents them from worshiping as they choose? That’s ridiculous.

Rather, it is setting conditions on the use of its equipment and services as part of an implied safety contract. Sure, it’s discrimination—exactly as it is discrimination to say that no one under a certain age or a certain height can go on some rides. Discrimination is not a dirty word. It means telling things apart, and it’s a basic survival skill. In this case it is also part of a safety policy and has nothing to do with religious observance.

People of goodwill who are not out to make an issue of something by deliberately inciting controversy will simply say “Guess I’ll have to miss this ride.”

@jca Are you unable to see the difference between meanings ascribed to Hijab and to a spaghetti drainer?

@Simone_De_Beauvoir: It’s not clear if you’re being sarcastic or not. Please elaborate.

@jca I’m not being sarcastic. You answered @Joker94 ‘s comment with a comment similar to mine that I posted above. I just wanted to make sure that correcting how to spell hijab isn’t the same, in your mind, as explaining something about drainers. The symbolism is different.

@Lightlyseared Yeah, I don’t see my shorts flying off when I’m on a roller coaster. You are being silly. :P

@Simone_De_Beauvoir: Did you not see my comment to him later that he was putting words in my mouth? Lighten up.

@jca Ah, the classic response to something making you uncomfortable. Let me leave this conversation then.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir: Ok then, let me just make it “Did you not see my comment to him later that he was putting words in my mouth?” Please don’t assume I’m uncomfortable.

@jonsblond you won’t see a hijab flying off either as they tightly pinned to the head. So that argument boils down to little more than a poor attempt to justify rasicm.

@jca Then why do you assume I need to lighten up? I am quite lightened up right now, just relaxing, eating Nutella.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir: That’s good. I dropped the “lighten up,” remember?

@Lightlyseared lol. ok. everyone is a victim. <rolls eyes>

@jonsblond Not for nothing, since I’m involved in my own fun conversation above, but just because someone wants to discuss racist implications of events (whether you believe it to be so or not) doesn’t imply they’re victims or see anyone involved as victims.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the future with this policy.

First, I think it is worth noting that no one in the US has a right to an amusement park ride, just as no one in the US has a right to a driver’s license. These are privileges one must meet certain requirements to obtain. What the people in this case have a right to is non-discrimination. If they can show that the rules were applied to them without being applied to others, they have a case. If they cannot show this, they have no case. To this end, the point about earrings made by @tinyfaery is quite relevant. But as she said, we so far lack sufficient information to say whether the rules were being enforced in a discriminatory manner or not.

That said, however, I think we have a social responsibility—though not a legal responsibility—to make the various elements of our society more friendly to people from all walks of life. If there are design reasons why headgear in general cannot be worn on certain rides, so be it. If it is only that way because no one considered the possibility that some people might have strong reasons for keeping their heads covered, however, it is worth looking into how they could be accommodated. Note that I am saying we must do so, only that it is worth trying.

I’m wondering if they would require a person to remove any fake hair they might be wearing?

Depend son what rides we’re talking about. If it’s a roller coaster they can loose them and get stuck somewhere on the track and become a menace for the rest of the rides. The rule wasn’t made to be disrespectful.

@Hibernate exactly! I made the mistake of wearing flip flops to Six Flags once. Guess what? I was denied a ride on Superman.

@jonsblond How much did you sue them for?

I can’t believe there are people making this into a racist act. Do you know that most mechanics do not wear a wedding band because of the danger. I once used my rotary grinder with a loose shirt, I still have the scar on my gut from when it became entangled and started to grind through my flesh. It is a safety precaution. Once I was riding my scooter, the guy on the cycle in front of me had a Snoopy scarf around his neck, it came loose and came back and hit me, I was momentarily blinded and almost wrecked. Plus part it of stuck under my visor and gave me welts on my face from the wind whipping it before I could pull over to remove it.

I am so sick and tired of certain groups demanding special treatment. I can’t walk into a convenience store with my motorcycle helmet on. I think I will call that cycleism and claim I am being discriminated against. I worship my scooter so it is probably against my religion as well. Now who can I sue for the injustice and emotional pain these callous acts have inflicted upon me.

Muslims are not stupid people. If the US is their homeland then they have had ample time to get themselves acclimated to western common sense and tort law. Unless they are truly dumb they all knew full well the reason to remove head gear was for safety concerns and chose to take the low road citing prejudice and discrimination. They have figured out by now the ACLU is all knowing and all powerful and will throw down the gauntlet at the slightest whiff of human rights violations so they can make a point that Islam is a religion to be reckoned with and it won’t hurt to settle out of court for a few million bucks to boot.

@woodcutter I’m not so sure. Those particular Muslims can be sued for trying to get a ride and put in jeopardy the other people there. SO it can backfire if they want to start a lawsuit or something. [not to mention if they do it those amusements park can reserver the rights to not allow them in the parks anymore]. Might seem awful but if they don’t wanna follow the rules it’s better to stay home. If one enters into a Muslim home and disrespects him the Muslim can kick him out. I believe the amusement park can do the same with their “own houses”.

Here is another article on the park incident. Wow…it really did get out of control.

I feel bad for the park officials. Their intent was to do something nice for a group by offering substantial discounts on tickets. They communicated the rules to the group organizer well in advance, as well as to those attending at the entrance gate. They were only looking out for the safety of all attendees. The park experienced three ride accidents in the past, which resulted in the deaths of two children. While not clothing-related, it was enough to create more stringent policies for both employees and customers in order to prevent this from happening again. The staff was in the process of giving back refunds to those that were dissatisfied with the rule when the riot broke out. They called the police when it got out of control.

I just cannot see this as a case of religious discrimination based upon the facts provided so far. It is not as if all rides ban the wearing of headgear. Nor does the park in general…just certain rides.

I also read in an article in Lohud that the park Commissioner, Peter Tartaglia, said that someone did die in another amusement park on a go kart ride, wearing a hijab that got caught in the ride. So it can happen. If they did not enforce this rule and someone died, they would be subject to another lawsuit and possibly the park closing, as it’s not profitable as it is, and they were under intense scrutiny after the deaths they had in the past.