Are moral values & standards a thing of the past?

No! People still have morals. They may be different than they were in the past, but that doesn’t make them non-existent. In fact, humanity has improved in countless ways. Look at how differences used to be treated. They were squashed down. Now we are at least attempting to embrace them. Look at how African Americans, Native Americans, Asians, women were treated. We are lucky to live in the time and place that we do.

I have met people who seem to care not at all for others, but those people have always been around. They are everywhere. And most of them do actually care.

Some people do not know how to express themselves in an acceptable manner. But when you think about it, they are the true sufferers. If you can’t love, you will never be loved. If you can’t treat people appropriately, then you will never even have friends. I can’t imagine a more hollow existence.

I completely disagree.

How are morals less than before? Human rights become a bigger and bigger issue. It’s considered bad to be sexist, racist, xenophobic, homophobic, or generally bigoted. We still think murder, adultery, and stealing are bad, and punish them with either the law or social shunning. Have you seen the moral outrage people have over issues like music pirating or cheating on a school exam or a teen lighting up a joint at a concert? There’s never been a perfectly moral society, but just because people don’t always help you out when the contents of your purse spill out (and btw, the other day, no less than 5 different women helped me do just that when I carried a particularly faulty bag) doesn’t mean we don’t have any morals.

When my mom was a kid black people had their own drinking fountains and were hung for looking at white women incorrectly. But the people that did the hanging the night before would open the door at the store for the white woman behind them.

I think that throughout history, moral standards and values change to fit with the lives of the people living at that time and place.

I can agree that we have lost some of the ethics that we used to have in the past but at the same time we might have improved on other moral issues.

I can agree for the simple fact that there’s more people running around today.. In my day things were pretty tame as far as neighborhood crime was concerned and I recall my parents tsking about New York and it’s most rude people which was mostly over-populated.. Now this over-population is everywhere and in these areas are more rude people and those who aren’t as rude stay inside or out of site because of the rudeness of their neighbors.. Most people are too busy to converse with others which makes them rude. Hardly anyone helps others because as their too busy with their own petty lives they just don’t want to get involved. A sorry lot indeed but that’s one of the negatives you must endure in the name of progress.

Yes I agree. I should like to think that I have a moral code which I use every day but maybe I’m wrong. In any case nowdays people like to help others only when there’s something to be gained and they “live” by a moral code only when it suits them.

So, if we live in a time when morals are a thing of the past, this says that there was a time in the past when morals existed in greater quantities then they do now, that there was a time when people were generally decent and good and not selfish and didn’t usually only do things because it benefited them. To which I ask: And when exactly was this point in time?

I can answer that. Mostly depends on the zone you live in. For instance where I live people still help one another, especially neighbours but not all of them. I’ve been to different countries and I can tell you this, there are places where neighbours don’t even bother to say hello, let’s not talk about other things [they don’t even know your name even if you are their neighbour for more than ten years].
Standards change at the same time while the world evolves. Assuming you go to a grocery store [not a very big market] how much time does it take you now to socialize with the clerks there if you do it? Nowdays they say hello/thanks/goodbye because it’s part of their job but a few decades ago they did it from other reasons.
If you see a person misplaces something today what do you do with it? Oh and if you decide to give it back haven’t you noticed he doesn’t look at you with kind eyes too much.

There’s a lot more things that changed. Ethics evolved. Moral codes seem to suit only a few categories and mostly nowdays when someone talks about morals they complete with religious people.

Yeah, I don’t think you actually answered the question. “Some time in the past, in this one place” is a bit vague, and doesn’t prove anything.

You want exact dates/times which is impossible.
In my country morals still exist. For you, I don’t know where you live so I can’t really tell you.
Look back in time and as soon as you see Churches going empty you can find your answer of WHEN it happened.

@Hibernate Why is it impossible? If it existed, you can pin it down – I’m not asking for an exact minute in time, but perhaps a decade or an era isn’t too much to ask. Also, morals exist outside of church attendance, outside of Christianity. And, everyone being Christian doesn’t mean horrible things didn’t happen, that people weren’t selfish.

No. Don’t get me wrong. I did not say all Christians are moral. I did not say non religious have no morals but as long as you are not “governed” by someone higher you can simply do what suits you more often. And yes a lot of Christians are fakes and I’d like not to talk about them.
Morals ceased to exist when people began to think about themselves they are better than others in certain situations. For example there’s a question about you keeping a promotion when the boss made a mistake. Most started thinking if the other party deserves it more than them. Even if the boss died it’s not your place to judge his thinking so yeah .. no ethnics there. Most said they would not keep it but in a real life occasion like this I don’t think that many will just pass the opportunity.
Thieves used to have a code to live by. Always to keep their word to another fellow member, never to snitch, and never to steal from another thief. It’s everyone for themselves now. They steal even from those who barely have to eat in a day.

What does this tell you? That things slowly changed it’s not like everyone chosed a time/place and just quited with morality.

There are people who are less friendly than we’d all like, however I’d tend to disagree that moral values and standards are a thing of the past. I think the opposite actually. I find more obliging people than not in my day to day life. People get caught up in the rat race and feel they have less I suppose.

I disagree. I know plenty of moral, decent, helpful people. Every generation says something like this is happening (“Kids today!”), but it’s not really true. People tend to view the past through rose colored glasses.

This is just completely false. As others above have mentioned, it’s quite the opposite. Some have proposed that there is a cognitive bias involved in believing that things were “better in the past”. Steven Pinker also addresses this bias when people talk about how things are getting more violent, when it’s actually the opposite.

@augustlan that may be true but some things were better in the past while most are better for these days. People did not have internet but they appreciated a letter when they received it.
While moral these days suffer a lot they had their own issues back then too.

I disagree completely. It might seem that way sometimes if you’ve had a run of bad luck or if your own karma is catching up to you, and cultural norms differ, so that what seems normal and moral in one part of the world (or at one time) may not be so in another time or place.

But people generally have to have moral codes; that’s what directs us to pro-survival actions.

I know this question is not about technology, but Andrew Tanenbaum’s observation is somewhat apt : “The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from.”
The modern phenomenon of many kinds of people mixing in society exposes each of us to folks who don’t think like we do.

So, I’ll easily agree that things ain’t the way they used to be, but from what I can tell everyone around has some kind of standards for their own behavior. I don’t like some of what I encounter, but they got a right to be assholes and I just don’t want to hang around with them. Or bank with some of them, or do business with some of them, or live next door.

I suppose it depends upon what sort of group you hang around with. Some are still very moral, while others are immoral or simply amoral. Frankly, I would prefer the immoral to the amoral, if I had to make a choice. As for me and my family, we do our best to follow the highest moral standards.

I think times change as do trends, the things that were perhaps not tolerated 50 yrs ago have become an acceptable way of life today.

I know that here in the UK things have become very different from the way they were when I was growing up. The morals and standards for whats acceptable are now are different from way back then. Parenting has a lot to do with good installation of morals, however its a modern society and my old fashioned morals have no value on the streets with my kids!

So to a certain degree I think that a generation of kids are being bought up with the ‘I don’t care’ and ‘So what’ attitude and passing that onto their offspring. Kids having kids breeds ‘ignorance’.

@raven860 “People do not really have any moral sense anymore. ” Says who? Do you seriously believe that Warren Buffet committed $45 billion to charity for fame and glory? He had plenty of fame and glory already for having amassed such a fortune. I hear stories on the news day after day of people risking their lives to save another, and some of them lose their own life in the effort. I hear stories of people finding a billfold with thousands of dollars in it and returning it to the rightful owner with the money still inside.

Morality is stronger today than it was in the dark ages, or the age of warlords and empire building. There is still some slavery in the world, but it is on its way out. There are still some dictators, but not so long ago, every nation was ruled by a tyrant and murder was the routine route of secession. Morality will never become obsolete because the Golden Rule is true. The 60s phrase, “What goes around comes around.” Expresses it most simply. And more and more of us are realizing that’s true.

Of course they’re not a thing of the past. Most people have just gotten past the idea that morals derive from ancient religious texts.

For example, religious people have accused me in the past of having no morals. But I do have morals!

My morals are that it’s wrong and unethical to harm or impose your will on other people without their consent.

The corollary is that whatever occurs in private alone or between consenting adults is perfectly moral and ethical.

Live and let live…

I disagree, I think we tend to idealize the past and fool ourselves into thinking things “used to” be better.

Whenever we have a natural disaster, it seems to bring out the best in people. And that tells me that when people are put to a test, their highest moral character comes to the fore.

I think people confuse manners with morals. It is deceptive how people can politely judge and condemn people in an immoral manner, and others can rudely enforce a basic moral code.

“People do not really have any moral sense anymore.”

Where do you get off saying this? it is totally untrue. If you just look at the discussions on this site, you will meet many, many ethical people who are only trying to do right.

I see ethics and morality every single day.

People still have morals, but there are many types of morality.

Many people believe that everyone needs to be self-sufficient and that it is immoral for the government to take money from anyone to help those that cannot help themselves. I mean, 286% of welfare recipients are drug addicts who have no intention of ever seeking gainful employment, right? And there are so many jobs out there that the only reason for anyone to be unemployed is if they are lazy ne’er-do-wells.

There are also those that believe that any romantic arrangement other than one man and one woman is immoral while others don’t care so long as all parties involved are consetning adults.

It is immoral to not accept Christ as your savior (we are a Christian nation… allegedly), yet it is also immoral to defy the freedom of religion granted by the First Amendment. It is immoral for people to immigrate to America without being fluent in English, yet it is immoral to close our borders and stop being the melting pot.

The truth is that we are quite moral, we just don’t all have the same morals.

“The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.”

—Plato

People have been whining about modern society’s moral decline for literally thousands of years.

@jery Moral & immoral to me are basically actions that either help or hurt people respectively. There have always been both moral and immoral people. I just am not sure who number more.

I have always assumed that we have grown quite well as a society for reasons @Aethelflaed stated “It’s considered bad to be sexist, racist, xenophobic, homophobic, or generally bigoted. We still think murder, adultery, and stealing are bad, and punish them with either the law or social shunning.”

However, I still keep coming across people who openly ( among friends at least are quite vocal about this). I have heard racist chit chatter, homophobic slurs, vicious and vile behavior. You are right however they wont do this publicly…cause that would damage their social standing and career.

For example the behavior exemplified in the U.K riots by youths…I know for a fact that such behavior is quite common among the younger generation. Behavior shown from the Pheobe prince bullying case and Rutgers suicide case and other such cases shows that to some extent. I have met a few professionals here and there ( a few doctors) who don’t take much interest in their patients.

I don’t want to turn this into a political debate but the best example in my opinion comes from this political cartoon of the republicans: http://lebanonspring.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/economist-cartoon-debt-ceiling-congress-obama-tea-party-republican-gop-crisis.jpg The Tea Party basically screwing over our economy and therefore well being…..only to get rid of Obama & Democrats. Just last night or the night before(?) in Obama’s words “Stop the Political Circus”.

Yesterday, there was this article about a Muslim women and her experience with TSA. Some of the hateful comments written as feedback to her and their popularity was disgusting.

I remember a few years back during a Soccer World Cup game in Spain, some Spanish fans made racist comments towards a black player for the Spanish team while in the stands during a game. I am not sure if those fans felt any repercussions for it. I have heard Spain can be a very racist place but I don’t know if that is true. I do know the world cup has this banner up condemning racism before games now…which is good.

Things like these and some of my own experiences ( I have quite a few lately) make me wonder.

@Qingu
That is a good quote…answers my question quite well.

I completely agree that there are people out there who are more than ready to help, I have met them too but I felt like asking this question because of some of my observations. I guess my question/answer is more of a rant or a vent…but I needed to know what others think about such things.

@raven860 “Moral & immoral to me are basically actions that either help or hurt people respectively.”
Some people have a different definition of “morality” than you though. Then again, I suppose that is because many embrace the “No true Scotsman” fallacy and come up with their own definition of “people” which excludes those that they don’t like (Blacks, Muslims, the poor…), so you’re not wrong. I mean, it’s not immoral if non-people get hurt, right?

@raven860

Toeing the party line I see.

I think it depends on the age of the responder to this question what you get for a reply. If morals is about promiscuous sexuality, easy abortion, quickie divorce, flaunting gender orientation etc. anyone born after mid 1970’s might feel the moral compass has not gone south as this has been the climate of the world they have lived in. The 1960s truly was the start of acceptability of counter culture but it was the 1970s that began to see the legalization of most especially divorce and abortion. And of course political shadiness began to rise to the forefront since, say Watergate.

These recent years since there has been so much competiton in the world of television, there really is no subject left unturned and the majority of things get frequent laundering on women’s network and comedy spoof shows. I see that the FUCK word which I am told really originated with being an arrest acronym for (for unlawful carnal knowledge) in earlier centuries is now acceptable everywhere in TV land and even workplaces rely on that staple of the short words to introduce, fill, and complete most conversations even about business.

I cast my vote with anyone who thinks society is pretty ill right now in what we value and don’t. While individuals do make up the world and our choices influence outwardly to others, I think the bar for flaunting grossness has been raised high enough that we would need sky hooks to bring it back down to, not a prudish level but a level that does not numb individuals from reality.

Not at all! Despite the modern world’s best efforts, Christianity (religions in general, really) puts forth a moral standard for its millions (billions?) of adherents, and they largely stick to it.

In “I don’t want to turn this into a political debate but the best example in my opinion comes from this political cartoon of the republicans” should have been Tea Party

@smilingheart1 That fuck is an acroynm for “for unlawful carnal knowledge” is a false etymology. It’s been around for centuries longer. The more you know.

I am committed to a high moral and ethical standard.
I do my best to cause no harm, and am adamant about conducting ourselves with honesty in all our relationships.
Inspite of some of the hard knocks of life I still believe there are more honest and moral people than otherwise…as long as we break even it keeps the status quo between good and evil balanced.
Ideally the good will tip the scales. haha

I definitely agree. At least, in my own country. Most people are more pragmatic than more compassionate these days. There are always possible hypocrisies behind every decent moral attitudes. There are, however, exception if people are related by blood, or status.

Not every people adopt the same moral code, as each people from different country or culture might produce different moral values (i.e. having more than one wife is considered as morally wrong in some countries). And not everyone do every kind of moral activities related to the moral code they adopted. (i.e. one might love to help others in need for free, but disrespect women at the same time).

I might be wrong but I also feel like that nobody does something for nothing nowadays. We couldn’t blame them as their environment probably expect them to care more about themselves in order to survive.

@raven860, you mentioned you hear racist and homophobic stuff… but consider how racism and homophobia have evolved even within our own lifetimes, let alone in the past 200 years.

200 years ago it was widely accepted that black people were literally subhuman. 50 years ago black people allegedly had equal rights as whites, but you could say the n-word in many public places and nobody would bat an eye. Today? Racism still exists, but it’s been driven underground. That’s a tremendous amount of progress. The same can be said for society’s attitudes towards gays.

There will always be anecdotal evidence for lack of progress, but (1) it’s important to keep the big picture in mind and (2) I seriously think that one of the reasons you are noticing such things more often is because they have become rarer and more looked-down upon.

…

Also, you mentioned the Republicans and Tea Party. I am demonstrably not a fan of these people—but compare them to the Republicans during the 1980’s! Willie Horton? What about the Southern Strategy of explicitly appealing to white southern racists? I honestly believe that most Tea Partiers are not racist. They certainly favor politics that put blacks at a disadvantage, but that’s because blacks are more likely to be poor and the poor get screwed by laissez-faire. The Republican Party has been like this since FDR… but their racism has actually gotten much, much less explicit.

I was just thinking how much life is getting better and more fair for everyone today. Sure, we as a society still have lotes of work to do, but it appears to me at least that we aren’t moving backwards.

Funny, just this morning while I was working out I heard a commercial with a deep voiced black male doing the voice over…Next, I saw a mixed race family on another commercial…

During my childhood, I frequently asked my mom why there weren’t any black people in commercials. Then, later in my tween years, blacks were only seen in commercial late at night when Soul Train aired. Now, finally I see black people on my TV daily…

Both of my parents worked in the “black” grocery stores during the Milwaukee riots. My parents were friends with people from “that neighborhood”...some of their own family members called my parents “N____ Lovers” during that period of time

@Qingu I think their current strategy is to appeal to Christian bigots, and I cite the anti-gay and Islamophobic rhetoric I often here from that side of the aisle as supporting evidence.

Then again, it isn’t universal, merely common enough to be of note. Some call it “appealing to the base”, but it ignores the fact that many Conservatives and Christians are rational, open-minded people, which leads to a schism within the GOP as you have that crowd competing against the clinically sane people for the right to call themselves “True” Conservatives.

Which brings us back to how viewpoints have evolved, yet not all evolve at the same rate.

On the whole, yes, sadly.

@Aethelflaed .. There were times when peope were civil and had quite good morals and it still exists today, the problem is that the averages have not changed but the population has which computes to much less people now then there were then while there are far more today who do not recognize these traits..

In the greater way morality is used around here, there is none, or any that really makes any difference. Morality is about which group had the might and clout it enforce their belief and will. It is quite different from civility. To help another out just because you want to lighten their burden might have little to do with morality but more on civility. Nations where honor killings might go on, or government torture will still have those who would help out another in need. Has morality left? To some who believe it a stand alone deal, it is a nebulous trip through a gelatinous personal pet peeve.

@jerv, I agree that forms a major part of their strategy; certainly explicit homophobia is alive and well in the modern Republican party. But I would say that racism and racist appeals—to the extent that it exists in modern Republican strategy—has been driven deep underground and must be highly coded.

I think the question behind your question is: Why do some moral values & standards change over time?

@Qingu That is a good point about the Republican party. However the point I intended on making was regarding their choice of action of benefiting the party at the cost of American People. The magnitude of how far they are willing to go to ensure their party can gain power is horrifying and downright disgusting.

@jerv “so you’re not wrong. I mean, it’s not immoral if non-people get hurt, right?” So are you saying I am no different from a racist or a religious bigot because I dislike racists or bigots?

@raven860, I dunno. It doesn’t seem worse than what the Republicans did during the Bush years. Seems a continuation of the same moral standards in a different strategic setting.

@Qingu True, it just happened recently therefore indicating no change in their standards to date.

@raven860 Not what I was saying at all, but I can’t really think of a way to rephrase it right now. Not enough caffeine to think straight yet.

@jerv Okay, Please let me know what you meant soon.

@Aethelflaed

“How are morals less than before? Human rights become a bigger and bigger issue. It’s considered bad to be sexist, racist, xenophobic, homophobic, or generally bigoted. We still think murder, adultery, and stealing are bad, and punish them with either the law or social shunning. Have you seen the moral outrage people have over issues like music pirating or cheating on a school exam or a teen lighting up a joint at a concert?”

I think if we look for it we can find enough examples of behavior of the exact opposite nature. I would like to believe that society is as you state it however from some of the examples I mentioned before and some other everyday behaviors I have noticed from people makes me think otherwise. I think we are conflicting on this topic because when you measure how moral society is, you are considering what kinds of laws and organizations exist. When I am assessing our society’s moral views I am considering the way most people deal with each other and things that go relatively unchecked. I am not which and what combination if any is correct to make a proper assessment.

Today, only fools would publicly commit immoral actions because of consequences to their career. Behind closed doors, a bunch of people like to get their hands dirty because they face no repercussions.

@raven860 My disagreement is not over whether people are awful now, but the idea that they are now awful where they once were moral and righteous. Fine, people suck today. That doesn’t mean they didn’t suck just as much in the past.

@Aethelflaed Yea, I guess things are the same as they were in the past. Disappointing thing is that it means the future will be the same.

@mattbrowne

Indeed.
“I think the question behind your question is: Why do some moral values & standards change over time?”
The answer to that would be very interesting.

@Aethelflaed

So when you say people do suck, is it because of experiences with former friends, unlike family members and acquaintances?

@raven860 No, it’s because of everyone.

@raven860 – They do change because of new insights within cultures and encounters between cultures.