9/11 Congress singing of God Bless America on the steps of the Capitol, why did no one raise a stink?

In our nation’s time of sorrow, it wouldn’t have been appropriate.

Because it was not good form, much like this question.
:p

I’ll be curious to see the responses of those who mock politicians who mention God and their faith. I’m curious if they had any problem with the President’s “invocation” this morning at ground zero.

Politicians have to mention god these days or they don’t get elected so… I can’t speak for anyone else but I try to ignore it, and pretend it doesn’t leave the taste of battery in my mouth.

I think it is an empty sentiment since there is no God. But not everybody agrees with me. Why shouldn’t they have their moment? It was not a legislative act, after all.

Because we don’t make a stink about every little thing that mentions God done by the government. I love the song God Bless America, and I am an atheist. I just don’t want anyone being forced to sing it or expected to. If congressmen want to sing, they are free to. It was not during a congressional session, it was outside. No one in the government ordered it to be sung.

God is politics. A politician who doesn’t mention God can’t stay in office. In the case of nine-eleven, mentioning the Christian God is an anti-Islamic thing that tells people you don’t support those evil Muslims.

It is pure pandering, only everyone says it isn’t. Anyone who says it is is either despised or accused of anti-Americanism or both.

I found it offensive. I thought it dishonored the memory of those who had died in the fall of the towers. I didn’t think politics should be brought into it, but it’s election season already, so I’m not at all surprised. I think this is 90% show and ten percent real sentiment. It’s people doing what they think they should just because everyone else is doing it. They want to be seen to care and do the expected thing, regardless of whether they actually mean it.

I do agree though that it was a political move also, speaking directly to the Christian right. That whole we are a Christian nation, commies are athiests, Muslims have a different God, blah blah bullshit.

So was Obama being insincere in his invocation, @wundayatta and @JLeslie?

You’re raising a stink, @Hypocrisy_Central. Isn’t that enough?

@bkcunningham No, I believe he was sincere. I think the congressmen who sang were sincere also, and the nice side benefit is it speaks to certain people. I think this happens all the time in politics.

My feelings about it are not perfectly in line with Wundays. I am not so negative about it.

@bkcunningham ; Obama id a Christian, so his prayer WAS sincere.

Most who write here probably think that not only is there no God but there is no polarity called evil either. And yet we see good and evil all around us everyday. There are many, many super intelligent Fluther folks out there – how can this be? We are actually living in the advanced chapters of the great drama, but we’ve got the stage of life so messed up with our poor theatrical lighting that we can’t see what used to be evident. Our hearts are many sizes too small and our heads many sizes too big. We must not confuse world religions with truth, which so very few want to look at.

I think the question addresses the separation of church and state argument many like to invoke and the hypocrisy by some in not calling out the POTUS and Congress, @Judi. Not whether or not Obama is a Christian. My question was directed at @JLeslie and @wundayatta who implied the President was pandering and playing politics.

I am only saying it is a side benefit. I think all of us felt strongly about America during that horrible time. Whichever “America” song they might have chosen, I think the feelings are sincere in their commitment and love for our country.

@Hypocrisy_Central __believing all legislators should conduct themselves in a none-God manner__
Wow, that explains their behavior the last few years. Definitely a non-God manner.
I certainly want my legislators acting in a moral and rightious way.
The Constitution doesn’t say freedom FROM religion, it’s freedom OF religion. I don’t think the framers wanted Congress to act like a bunch of heathens.

Essentially, people feel god and prayer are part of our country, so if one doesn’t feel that’s necessary, it becomes a problem. But since we’re not in the bronze age anymore, some of us appreciate our progressive lifestyle, and simply think beliefs should stay at home.

How did this question pass the moderators? I always get re-questioned and it’s lame because the English I use is correct for the most part. Like I have to simplify. This question has spelling errors. I don’t get it, step up your game Fluther.

Every question I ever submit gets returned to me for some moderation. Sometimes more than once. I use to try to make the corrections I thought they wanted time and again in a single question. Now, after awhile, I sometimes give up.

When you consider just for a second that those 3,000+ souls were all from every imaginable religion that we could suspend any bias for politics or sources of faith to come together and allow for dignified ceremonies in an effort for all to heal and put this horrible tragedy into a more peaceful perspective however one sees fit.

Amen and amen. Let us come together in our faith. At least for one day. For one hour of one day. President Obama’s words touched me this morning when I watched the ceremonies in New York, Pennsylvania and Arlington, Va. It was nice to see President and Mrs. Bush walk along the memorial at ground zero with President and Mrs. Obama. Those waterfalls are amazing. I was moved to tears at times. Anyway, what would it have hurt for a representative of every major religion say a few words?

@bkcunningham Obama, Bush, Clinton, and other Presidents I am sure, used various different clergy from many faiths at many different ceremonies. I think the country knows generally they want to be inclusive. Specifically, Obama and Bush mentioned our country being of many faiths in their inaugural speeches. I can’t speak about other Presidents, only because I am not very familiar with their inaugural speeches.

I was talking about today, @JLeslie. At the ceremonies in New York marking the anniversary of the terrorists’ attacks on America.

@bkcunningham Me too, and knowing the men who are our Presidents.

Do you think they should have allowed religious representatives, people of faith, clergy, religious people or whatever you want to call it, at the 9/11 ceremony in New York, @JLeslie?

They were expressing their personal faith which there is no law against.

@bkcunningham As you can guess, I prefer not. But, I would not get all crazy about it if they did. NYC is so diverse, I think better not to pick one clergy to say something. Obama is Christian, so it is natural to him to use Christian words of comfort. I don’t feel it was political. I think if Obama never said God Bless America and never used religious verbiage the Christian right would definitely point it out. So, maybe some of it is purposeful to keep them at bay, not sure. But my feeling from Obama is when it comes to moments of great sorrow, times to reflect, and his desire for safety for all Americans and our way of life, that his religion does play in how he views the world and life. I don’t expect him to not be the man he is. Where I never think in those terms, never think about God. I realize others do though in those moments.

@bkcunningham If we had a President who was an atheist or who was not from one of the Abrahamic religions, would you find it odd for them to not mention God, or would you expect them to say what many Americans want to hear? Would the lack or absense of God in speeches stand out to you?

If he/she were an atheist and read Psalm 46 like Obama did this morning, I’d think it was strange. I would wonder if the POTUS had taken a leap of faith and become a believer if he read that passage in that context. Of course it would stand out to me. I’m sure it would be a known fact that the POTUS was an atheist and we wouldn’t be expecting him to cite the Old Testament.

Eh, it’s just a song. It’s not like they were singing “Onward Christian Soldiers”.

@bkcunningham But, if the president left religion and God out altogether, not just at a 9/11 speech, but every speech, would it stand out to you? Bother you?

A separate question, is it typical for Christians to site the old testament? I am not talking government officials, just the average Christian or clergy who does reference biblical passages.

@incendiary_dan Oh, it’s worse than that, they went to war afterwards and killed, according to a separate post, 100,000 Iraqi civilians. When American politicians sing God bless America after a terrorist attack, and you’re in the same country with potential scapegoats, run for your lives.

@everephebe Because it was not good form, much like this question. It is good enough form to generate a response deemed well enough for half a dozen lurve or more. I guess the form would have been better if I would have combined it with how many people were constipated, and didn’t have time to go before the attack, or in the John dedicating, being caught with their pants down. Perhaps the all time favorites of if the man in HR believes the woman in records likes hime because she always smiles at him in passing and leaves him a cupcake every Friday.

@filmfann Wow, that explains their behavior the last few years. Definitely a non-God manner. I certainly want my legislators acting in a moral and righteous[sic] way. If people do not believe being said to act and carry on sans God should be a comfort to them. Since most who do not believe take it morality comes from somewhere else, though they can’t scientifically say, that would make a politician who has no god of any type still able to act civil.

Because there are things that embarrass even atheists and they probably thought then was not a smart time to be anal about it .

What’s the use? As Alex put after I wondered whether so many families can be quite so religious (given their speeches), “it’s an affliction that affects those most dire in need of it”. Apparently, there are golf courses, beer, and the Yankees in heaven and a million ways to soothe one’s inability to control what has happened. So sure I’d raise a stink, but what will it accomplish? Nothing.

I don’t know if it is common for Christians to cite Old Testament text, @JLeslie. I would imagine, as it pertains to members of the clergy, it would depend on what they were talking about in their sermon (if that is what you meant).

The same goes for me with the POTUS. I didn’t know what to expect today. Either way, it wouldn’t have surprised me. I did enjoy Obama’s words though. He’s a very good orator. His rendition of the Psalm 46 was beautiful and very moving. (He didn’t read the entire verse.)

1God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.

2Therefore will not we fear, though the earth be removed, and though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea;

3Though the waters thereof roar and be troubled, though the mountains shake with the swelling thereof. Selah.

4There is a river, the streams whereof shall make glad the city of God, the holy place of the tabernacles of the most High.

5God is in the midst of her; she shall not be moved: God shall help her, and that right early.

6The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

7The LORD of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah.

8Come, behold the works of the LORD, what desolations he hath made in the earth.

9He maketh wars to cease unto the end of the earth; he breaketh the bow, and cutteth the spear in sunder; he burneth the chariot in the fire.

10Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.

11The LORD of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge.

@Hypocrisy_Central: This question needs serioius editing . It is not clear.

What in the world does occopello mean? And none -God and on a the steps of a pillar of government?

@bkcunningham That passage does nothing for me, while there are many biblical quotes that I do find interesting and thought provoking. Although I am not a theist, and not religious, I think there is wisdom in the bible, as I think is true of other religious texts. Pulling from any religious text for philosophical guidance or comfort does not bother me at all. I saw Clinton do this often from many different religions,

You know, just yesterday a friend of mine wrote on his facebook an atheist leaning statement. It was more a criticism of how Christians embrace suffering, cannot remember the exact words. I know him as a Catholic, but we never had spoken about religion, and I have not lived near him in several years. Later in the thread of comments he did reference the imaginary man, so it confirmed to me he is an atheist. I doubt he has any idea I am an athiest and I don’t say it on facebook. Anyway, I thought to myself, his brother dying in his 30’s and his wife lost her brother when she was a teenager, I just assume the pain of life means he rejects God. I could be wrong as to why he is an atheist. My point is, he got me thinking, people who go through tremendous pain, tremendous loss, and witness horrific tragedies, they tend to either take comfort in their belief in God and their religion, or reject it all. I would think the person who rejects God because of this sort of circumstance is more hurt or annoyed by the bible being referenced than the average atheist in the crowd.

occopella = a capella

Having them singing a song acknowledging God, (I know some will try to water it down to say “who’s god?”, or that is was their personal god, but the intent of the composer is quite clear), on a the steps of a pillar of government. = “Having them singing a song acknowledging God, on a the steps of a pillar (institution) of government. (I know some will try to water it down to say “who’s god?”, or that is was their personal god, but the intent of the composer is quite clear),”

Did you hear President Bill Clinton’s dedication speech for Flight 93? Fantastic. One of his best and he has had many great speeches. It is worth seven and one-half minutes of your life to watch this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0xkzT2SZCI&feature=player_embedded

I think the planet would be far better off without religion, but Congress singing that song did not offend me.

@bkcunningham

“occopella = a capella”

I heard that it was called occopello if the singers were step singing and no stink was raised. ;=)

“Occopello” as written may be a sort of pasta.

TL;DR

Under normal circumstances, such a thing would cause quite a stink.

However, it would be highly disrespectful to all who lost their live that day to take such a tragedy and politicize is. Never mind that the Republicans have done so for the last decade. So, the reason it hasn’t caused a stink is out of respect for the fallen.

The mod that helped you re-write this question deserves a freaking medal.

Probably out of respect, and it wouldn’t do any good to make a fuss about it. I doubt they’d wanna be anal about something like that in the wake of a tragedy of that magnitude. Although I’m sure there were some of them who were pretty miffed about it all.

I don’t thick anyone wants to deprive ANYONE from freely expressing their religion, except in cases where the listener is not free to walk away, as in school or a job. Using public money to erect or maintain religious shrines is not appropriate unless it is preserving an artistic treasure or historic sight.

I understood the jist of the question as written the first time I think some here are too embarrassed they forgot to watch the news that day?

^^ Psst. gist…

Hahaha.

@bkcunningham I think that on a personal level, Obama was sincere. However I also think he was well aware of the political impact of religious comments. He could have gone with something neutral had he wanted to. It would have expressed his sincere sentiments equally well. He could express it, as he did, in religious language and have gotten across the same message in a sincere way.

Given two options to say the same thing, one of which is neutral and one of which gains favor, especially with a crowd that usually doesn’t like him, which way is he going to go? He’s going the way that is to his political advantage.

Jist

Suet yourself.^^

gail, always the rabble rouser :)

It is always Milo who writes the officious answers when I have my back turned. Don’t blame me. (Or do I mean “sententious”? Or “tendentious”? Take your pick.)

@bkcunningham I was following the sub-thread here about Obama being sincere in his religious remarks. My opinion is no he was not sincere. It was political. I think he would have gone the neutral route if he chose to be true to himself. That’s the sense I got after reading his two books. He was more pragmatic than religious, if he was really ever. He used church organizations to push his humanitarian agenda as a social worker because it’s logical to do so. But I really did not get a sense that he’s even faithful. I’ll bet he’s truly an agnostic. I’ve listened to him talk about it and gut feels says, he’s not really into it.

People can sing whatever songs they please to find consolation in a horrible situation. I do not care what words they contain. Singing a song does not have a negative effect upon anybody, so I could hardly complain about it.

I think that was for the world audience as much as it was for domestic consumption. It was bound to draw more criticism from the yanks here than anywhere. I thought is was uplifting even though I am agnostic.

@mazingerz88 I also think Obama is not very religious. But, he does seem to do the ceremonies. Baptized his kids, marriage in the church, etc. So, to pull from scripture in a time of great sorrow, maybe not so much to comfort, but out of tradition, probably is not disingenuous. Although, I think he of course knows how it wil play to the crowd as well. I am not religious at all, but if I were asked to speak at a funeral, I might look through the old testament for something.

I imagine no one complained because to do so, considering the context, would have been horribly inconsiderate. Three thousand people were butchered that day, after all. I would hope even the most anal atheists would forgive them of such a minor transgression. I certainly did.

You know, as smart as many Flutheronians say they are, if you do not spell out the question (literally) to a ‘T’, they are not capable to fill in any blanks. ;-p

Three thousand people were butchered that day, after all. That fact should have no bearing on whether one compromises their principals or not, but that is another thread.

You know, it’s kind of funny how you try to minimize your train wreck rough drafts by inferring it’s a lack of intelligence on the reader’s part. ;-p

PS – Fact from fiction, truth from diction.

Lawlz.

An HO scale train falling 2in to the carpet, hardly a major upset. ;-P
Catchy phrase, think I may use it more often. :-)

@Hypocrisy_Central HUH? That fact should have no bearing on whether one compromises their principals or not, but that is another thread. That is the whole point/issue behind your thread! As many people above have stated, people who might normally object felt that remembering those who had died was a higher principle than objecting to a song written by Irving Berlin.

And do you think people should have made a stink ten years ago? Please express your opinion.

@zenvelo I imagine no one complained because to do so, considering the context, would have been horribly inconsiderate. Three thousand people were butchered that day, after all. What is what I was responding to. What difference does it make if it were one person, 10, 500, 5,000, or 50,000? You are saying they would not go with their guns as they had their dicks hard, that Judge Roy Moore remove the statue of the Ten Commandments from the Rotunda of the Capitol? I would not stop being who I was one something that fundamental to who I am, no matter how many dead there was. If I thought they just went “poof”, and there was no judgment awaiting them, even more so. The only ones who would be suffering behind it are those who are sad they were gone.

I just wonder why those who 10 years ago cowed out then, when normally they would have a tizzy over something as benign has having a moment of silence everyday before class if it meant some kids would use that time to pray. Seems kind of wishy washy.

@Hypocrisy_Central Because most people are considerate people who don’t attack those who are grieving. And to consider the singing of God Bless America as an affront to the First Amendment in such a moment is to be as petty as anything I’ve heard.

And your choice of language lowers the level of discourse in this thread.

@zenvelo @Hypocrisy_Central Because most people are considerate people who don’t attack those who are grieving. And to consider the singing of God Bless America as an affront to the First Amendment in such a moment is to be as petty as anything I’ve heard. To point out what you always thought was not appropriate is now an attack, just because a death happened? Wow….I never knew that. I said nothing of singing being an affront to free speech; I am not the one saying you can’t mention God when connected to government.