Is smacking your dog effective in the disciplinary department?

What? No. It’s not effective with anyone or any living being unless you want them to dislike you or be scared of you.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir Okay I appreciate your opinion. What is your suggestion for discipline?

Mind you all, the bait wasn’t for him, its for mice. I’m not smacking him just to do it.

I don’t recall ever “smacking” my pets. I had to lightly swat my cat’s hind flank a couple times to teach him to stop jumping on the kitchen countertops, because nothing else worked. He was just being stubborn.

Many animals will respond to a firm “No”.

And please remember, just as it is for children, there is a huge difference between a spanking (hand to butt, and never hard enough to bruise…) and smacking. “Smacking”, to me, implies more of a traumatic hitting than it does firm discipline.

@WillWorkForChocolate Okay, I will employ a firm no. Any Dog owners out there with suggestions?

I do not support this but sometimes it’s necessary or else the dog won’t learn. I mean let’s be serious here, it’s not like you can relate to a dog like to a person. A dog needs to know his boundries. he doesn’t know he eats poison until he’s sick and when he’s sick he won’t know it’s from the mouse trap.

It’s rather bad to disciplinate him this way but if he doesn’t understand from your tone something needs to be done. Okay some might contradict me but I had dogs and sometimes we had ti apply harsh love.

@Hibernate Well the good news is, there was no poison on the glue trap. But also I wasn’t smacking him to a pulp. He’s still in his learning stages so I need to know if its ok to smack after firm, “no nos” with tone don’t work.

I use a squirt gun full of water with a squeeze of lemon or lime juice in it for some reason dogs don’t like citrus juice.

I’d also move the glue strip to a place the dog can’t get to.

@dreamwolf Since you can not convince him not to eat the glue, you have to figure out another way to deal with the mouse situation. The dog can’t understand why you’re smacking him.

@WestRiverrat I don’t think I’m going to classical condition him by burning his eye lids.

@dreamwolf A “No” may or may not work, like I said- it all depends on the animal. If you feel it’s necessary, please remember to only apply your hand to his flank, and do it just firmly enough for him to get the point. Never “smack” or “hit” him, and certainly don’t do it anywhere other than his flank, because you could cause damage.

@WestRiverrat well we had one that was constantly eating our lemons and liked lemonade. Tonic water was liked too. But it never hurts to try and see.

@dreamwolf I know you didn’t beat the crap out of the dog. It will take time. You need to ahve patience with him but eventually you guys will work something out.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir Well it wasn’t the trap I was smacking him for, it was for the bait, which the trap held, so wouldn’t he get the point not to sneak around for something not givin to him? @WillWorkForChocolate On the flank you mean like the side near the tail/back?

@Hibernate Yeah, he’s a phenomenal dog, for the most part he’s on point with all commands. Just the bait on the trap is too new. I literally had it blocked well, and he dug it out, even after being told no firmly though. Maybe I will just repeat no no, a harsh tone since I already smacked him. He might get it?

@Hibernate there is always the one that proves to be the exception to the rule. There are several brands of bark collars that use citrus sprays. As much as they sell, the must be effective on at least some dogs.

@dreamwolf can you switch to a different bait that the dog isn’t interested in.

@dreamwolf The flank is the largest, fattiest part of the hind leg, it’s the animal’s thigh.

@WestRiverrat I’m pretty sure you can discilipine a dog to not eat the bait instead of dismissing the traps or the baits all together.

My grandparents used to use the technique of giving spicy treat to their dogs by throwing it in front of them to teach them not to eat any food thrown by outsiders again. Coincidentally, the same method also written in a dog book and it’s written that chili water isn’t poisonous to dogs and is effective to teach them a lesson.

The same practice could be applied to mousetrap, dip the treat with chili water and after your dogs tried his mischievousness a few times he’ll eventually learn to avoid any food from that mousetrap. Just an alternative method.

@Your_Majesty That’s a very good example.

This is the same puppy that just survived parvo?!

Seriously, positive reinforcment is the only way to correctly train your dog. Why not come up with a better place to locate the mouse trap (somewhere your dog has zero access to would be ideal).

A dog is not a human. If it sees food it needs to eat it…that is HOW there brains are wired.

Only use his name in a positive way. Never negative. If you say “No” or “Leave it” and he does what you ask, you immediately give him a treat & praise.

No,smacking isn’t necessary. A stern NO has worked with my dogs.
There are many books on the subject and help online from professionals.

@SpatzieLover I don’t think you guys understand. I need the traps in key locations. So how do I train him to “Leave It,” do I say “no NO” in front of the traps as well?

You can easily put the glue trap into an area the dog can’t reach or keep the dog out of that room. Glue traps that get stuck to dogs are not fun to remove.

Either put the trap somewhere else or the dog somewhere else or build a strong dog proof shelter around the trap.

I have mouse traps in my home (never poison or glue due to pets and my personal beliefs). They are inaccessible to all but humans & mice.

Often in a case like that, startling the dog (a sharp “NO” and clap your hands loudly) will suffice, but only if you then relocate the object to where the dog can’t reach it. Sometimes a smack is necessary when the dog is about to do something dangerous, like run into the street or eat something poisonous or grab something sharp.
I just read your newer post. I think in that situation you have to be vigilant, and only let the dog in the area of the traps when you are there and can correct again and again. It’s a bore, but I’ve trained dogs in that situation by having them on leash during the training period so they can’t go anywhere I don’t know about.

“Smacking” sounds to me as beating the shit out of someone.
Tell me that that is not the case in your question, please.

@rebbel You are trying to paint me as a beater and stirring off topic. No I didn’t, I stated that within the questions. He’s doing just fine, his tail is wagging and what have you, I let him out for his pee, its all good. I’m not going to do it anymore. But he’s usually good with stern nos and he’s going through growing pains. That is all.

@rebbel and beating the shit out of someone sounds like punching is involved. Not smacking btw.

@dreamwolf I am not trying to paint anything and stirring threads of topic is not me in any way, I am saying that to me “smacking” sounds as beating someone up and then I asked if you could tell me to please say that that is not what you talked about in your question.
And now I got your answer and I thank you.
Edit to add: I have no knowledge on doggy training/behaviour, so I can’t help you there.

Hitting a dog is wrong and a sign of an inferior brain. You are supposed to be smarter than they are.

Dogs are opportunistic feeders. That means they eat when food is available. It is an instinct. You are fighting his instinct to eat.

You only choice to use another method of pest control rather than baiting traps the dog can reach (he will smell the food). Please make sure there is no poison where your dog can get it.

Maybe not, but it sure is fun.

@marinelife Thanks for calling me a lower ranked brain. I’m reaching out for help. How can I help what I don’t know? Don’t assume to know me buddy. Or how my brain works. Obviously I’m new with dogs.

Can someone stop judging me and give me suggestions how to train this dog similar to @Your_Majesty I’m really not interested in the past, I want to move forward.

@dreamwolf “When you know better you do better” ~Maya Angelou

@marinelife is correct. Your brain is wired quite differently than your dogs. You just need to be a few steps ahead of your pups thinking.

You said he’s going through growing pains. No, he’s not a human. He needs to be trained. He will never be able to learn that he should not eat the food off the glue trap. You are fighting a losing battle with that. Even with “bitter” spray or hot peppers, some dogs will continue to chew and eat things that you don’t want them to.

Work on training him while using a different method to get the mice. Have you thought of using a tin cat or putting a snap trap inside of a tin cat? It’s much wiser to keep your pup away from any sort of trap.

Think of it this way…If you can’t keep him away from the peanut butter on the trap, how will you keep him from eating the mouse you plan to catch on it?

Mice carry parasites. If he eats it, he’ll need to be vetted again.

@dreamwolf : I gave you some pretty effective advice.

@SpatzieLover Do you not see these two contradict each other? ” He needs to be trained. He will never be able to learn that he should not eat the food off the glue trap.” Well if I train him he can learn it.

@dreamwolf You need to continue training your dog. Your dog is not “having growing pains”...he’s not human and is not eating off the trap to spite you. Dogs are incapable of spite.

You will never be able to effectively train him to leave a mouse trap alone due to his brain type.

@SpatzieLover I never said he was spiting me. Do you personally have a dog? With whom you’ve trained? What have you done to get him to do what you wanted? This is what I’m trying to accomplish.

I currently have three dogs. One is a 4month old pup. I have trained dozens of dogs.

Treats & praise are my tools. Occasional training with a clicker….then more treats & more praise.

EDIT: I have also successfully toilet trained cats with praise & treats. My cats come when called

@SpatzieLover There you go, that’s what I’m looking for. So you are certain, the smacking won’t do any good? Because I know its one thing to train a dog to “do” something, than the get them to “not” do something. How does positive reinforcement work in this case.

OK, there are a few flaws with your approach (I won’t even get into my thoughts on hitting any animal). One of your problems is timing. The dog did something and you are basing the discipline on evidence that you can see when the event is long over from the dog’s way of seeing the world. He very likely has no idea why he/she was punished in the first place which makes it ineffective. The dog has got to connect your behavior to what he or she did wrong and can’t do it in this example.

As you will not be able to “guard” your mouse glue strip 24 hours a day, I agree with the others who have suggested that you switch to a different type of mouse remedy. For example, here is a trap that the mouse goes in (you then release them outside far away). The treat for the mouse is inside the trap and the dog can’t get to it.

With your glue strip approach, one day you are going to have a stuck mouse and a dog who is going out of his mind trying to get to it, so the glue strip is not your best approach (you will have a very difficult time untraining your dog once there is a live mouse in the glue). Not to mention how difficult it is to try and remove the rodent from the glue strip (not fun).

To address the issue of how to train the dog in a positive way, there is the “leave it” command. A number of websites have instructions for using commands with or without clicker to teach the “leave it” command. Once your dog knows “leave it” then when he is bothering your new mousetrap, you use the command (something that he now knows what it means) and reward him with a small treat or positive praise for ignoring the offending object. Part of your problem now is that your dog has no earthly idea what you want him to do. If he has a command that he knows, then you can use the command and actually communicate to your dog what your desire is for his behavior.

Yes, a swat on the backside will not cause permanent to the dog’s psyche. It will not make him hate you, it will not make him turn into a killer. It will not do anything except hopefully make him aware that what he did was bad and he should not do it again.

I have been training dogs for 35 years, have always used a swat when necessary, my dogs love me (see my avatar). I also use choke chain (or to use the now politically correct term, check collar) because it works and does not break my dogs neck like a haltie will.

This never swat your dog theory is one of the reasons why there are now a couple of million more dogs in shelters now than ever before. If you want to make a lifelong process out of training your dog, then luring and shaping and only positive reinforcement is okay. If you simply want your dog to be a member of your family and a socially acceptable dog, then use the time tested (still used by most police and military trainers where lives depend on the dogs behavior) Koehler method of dog training.

I don’t think a swat on the bottom destroys a kid either but I am not an expert in that field, in this field, I have trained literally thousands of dogs so I know a little bit on the subject.

@rooeytoo I answered to “smacking a puppy” as I knew this is a puppy and I don’t swat . I’ve always grabbed the dog at the nape of the neck if it didn’t submit.

@rooeytoo Thank you I needed to hear that because I was starting to feel like a monster. @Kayak8 well for the timing part. I did hold the trap in front of him, that was destroyed, so do you think he has a sense of what was wrong then? I’m not being confrontational with my tone by the way, I’m seeking active help and I appreciate it.

Guys these are all great. I will no longer smack the pup for anything. But will emphasize on the tone of my no no’s. Since it’s already been done i cant take it back. I’ve told him sorry already. I super appreciate your advices. and thanks for calling me inferior, etc, you guys are really helpful with that and should continue to put others down in life. but for the others you have uplifted me in my understanding thank you.

@SpatzieLover – As I said, I base my opinion on the training and handling of thousands of dogs. I have handled killers and wimps, there is no one size fits all training method, but, I will say it again, I have never seen a dog ruined or spirit broken by a swat.

Discipline, even physical discipline, is not synonymous with abuse and hopefully the world will soon once again realize that.

I would love to stick around and debate this further, but I am off to work, which, by the way, is training and handling dogs, on a daily basis.

Never. It will never learn if it keeps getting subjected to pain and/or fear. How do you achieve a positive from a negative?

@dreamwolf You asked: “well for the timing part. I did hold the trap in front of him, that was destroyed, so do you think he has a sense of what was wrong then?”

Imagine that you have a condition where you only have awareness of what is going on right this minute. You have been placed in a foreign country where you don’t know the language. You did something, for example, touched a strange thing on the floor. Then someone yelled at you and then hit you. Now they are waving something in front of you. You understand that they are angry, but you don’t understand why they are angry. You understand they are waving this thing around in the air in front of you. With a human brain it is even confusing, “don’t touch this thing I am touching and showing you” really doesn’t make sense.

That it was “destroyed” is only meaningful to you who knows what it is supposed to look like. The dog doesn’t have a concept of “destroyed.” This is no different than a child who colors on the wall. The child doesn’t have a concept of $25/gallon paint, the time and effort that will go into repainting the wall, they have to be taught not to color on the walls. With a child as with a dog, you redirect them into doing something they are allowed to do (coloring on paper or playing with an appropriate dog toy).

The instant your dog’s nose touched the glue strip or when the dog started moving toward the glue strip was the time to correct the behavior. The dog cannot (with his current training) understand why you are waving this thing in front of him and can’t guess how you wish he would change his behavior.

If my dog moves toward something off limits, I make a noise and draw his attention back to me. I say “leave it.” I train dogs that search for human remains and it is critical that they do not mess up a crime scene by moving any objects (however delicious they may look to a dog). When I say “leave it,” they have been trained as to what the command means and they know not to touch or move the object.

@Kayak8 – Just out of curiosity, how many hours of training does your dog have? I have considered search and rescue work with my dog but do not have enough time in my schedule to devote.

In general, the average person does not want to train for to achieve their goal. I think most people just want their dog to be a member of the family and the fastest way to achieve that is not necessarily the same methods used to train s & e dogs or sniffer dogs, etc.

I worked with a dog today who usually has to be knocked out to have nails done, a haircut, ears cleaned, etc. I find that cruel and ridiculous. So I worked on the dog. I am sure there are some who would have called the SPCA had they witnessed it. But by the time I was finished the dog was accepting all of the above, no muzzle, no tranquilizers and very little resistance. All that in one easy lesson.

@dreamwolf – I would suggest you get the Dog Whisperer pod casts and watch them. He doesn’t swat or smack or hit or any other word you want to use, instead uses a sound and touch on the neck method that works well.

But many say his methods are too harsh also. I think they have never been faced with a truly aggressive dog who was destined for the gas chamber unless they could help it.

@rooeytoo I adore, and second your recommendation of The Dog Whisperer. I don’t find him harsh at all.

A good way to discipline is a light tap on the snout with 2 fingers, make the dog lay down with a little tug say no and walk away. Do it lightly though and you can only do it when you catch them in the act.

@rooeytoo My older dog started training at 16 weeks and is now almost 6. We trained twice a week up until he was about 18 months old for him to do live find. We started on HRD (human remains detection) when he was about a year. Initially we worked about three times a week in a variety of different locales and with different types of remains (bones are harder to work than tissue). Although he now has it all down pat, we still train twice a week to refine his indication on buried remains and other specialty elements of the work.

@Kayak8 – Yeah, I was all ready to go because this dog has a fantastic nose, although I was not sure if I could control the prey drive, but then found out about the extraordinary amount of time that you all dedicate and I lost my incentive.

I think the search and rescue dogs and handlers are an amazing bunch, you sure have my admiration and respect! I have a nurse friend who is a specialist in disaster response, she is also something else.