Do women like those of Venezuela who see bigger breast and plastic surgery as the stalwart mark of beauty, rankle feminist?

Well scientifically, our instincts are to do whatever it takes to survive. They see this culturally acceptable, and desirable by way of perhaps making good money off these ta-tas. Of course, this is my “humans are just another species” mind speaking. Inside of me its outrageous and does destroy the feminist movement by way of sex sells virtue.

I don’t see an obsession with beauty as counter-feminist (or however one would put it). A wish to appear beautiful whether for male attention or for personal gratification, to me, doesn’t ring any alarm bells to me as such.
However, where going into debt is concerned, that is unhealthy on a whole other level. That means you don’t have your priorities in order. But then again, that is what priorities are: subjective. May be being better looking IS more important to some people than being debt free. Who are we to judge?

Me personally? I would think 10 times before going under the knife even if I had the money.

It’s all about choice, @Hypocrisy_Central.

@JilltheTooth People were not so liberal with ”it’s there choice” in regards to this question. Interesting….....

Not a thread I was involved in, and I’m sure I’ll take some heat for my rather simple post above. Ah, well, it’s just too early for me to go into why I feel that way, and someone will take issue with whatever, so…whatever…

No, because feminism is all about the right to do what one chooses.

Just as men have the right to go for penile enhancement.

@marinelife, feminism is about the right to do what one chooses? There must be more to that statement than I’m reading because that isn’t what I thought feminism was about. Right?

I’m not a fan of plastic surgeries for purposes of vanity, but I agree, it is all about choice.

I’d like to see women have more self esteem within themselves rather than resorting to perkier breasts and other cosmetic procedures to give them the “lift” that they really need to find and be secure with from the inside out. :-)

Venezuela? Breasts are the obsession of the United States. But, I do find it to be true that Latin American women tend to be see surgery in general, and cosmetic surgery as very common place, and seem to have no worries about what can go wrong under the knife.

I am torn about how I view the obsession with beauty. I do find that in macho cultures the women tend to be much more focused on looking beautiful. It is not uncommon for Latin American women to say things like, “you better keep looking good, or he will find someone else.” There is an incredible emphasis on physical beauty and outward appearance in these cultures, and so in some ways it is an assault on feminism.

At the same time, women should be able to do whatever they want to help them feel good about themselves, barring any serious body dysmorphic syndrome. A little nip tuck, laser, etc., can be empowering to women. Many times women go under their knife for themselves no for a man, which I implied above.

Also, I think there is a difference between changing a feature, and trying to maintain youth. If someone is flat as a board and wants breasts, or has a huge nose, I can completely understand altering oneself. Keeping signs of age from setting in I am ok with also, but in its extreme I don’t like it. I like a few wrinkles, and I don’t like perfectly smooth plastic looking skin.

So, as I said I am conflicted. Overall I am in favor of having these cosmetic options available to us.

Also, men are starting to do more and more plastic surgery.

Lastly, my generalizations aout Latin America are certainly also seen in the US and other countries.

@bkcunningham That is what men have and that is what women want.

I dunno..IMO the women that “market” themselves as sex objects attract equally shallow men that are apt to dump ‘em anyway as soon as the more attractive model hits the runway.

I can’t think of any more horrible way to live than in a state of chronic anxiety about my looks.
No matter what one does to “augment” their physical blossom the flower IS going to die, sooner or later. haha

Anyone should be free to make themselves more beautiful according to their own perspectives. My only concern is if it becomes an obsession that diminishes other more worthy pursuits in life. That would be tragically pitiful.

No, you rankle this feminist ~ more later, gotta run

@Coloma Well said. That fits into the theory I was presenting, but you said it in a much more succinct way.

Women who are serene and confident in themselves have an indestructible beauty.

I see cosmetic surgery for older women as simply repainting the same old car over and over agian. lol
It might look a little shinier but, it’s still an old car underneath the paint. haha

@Coloma So, does it mean you are ok with that sort of plastic surgery? Or, you finf it to be a waste.

@JLeslie

Not my thing, a few years ago several of my friends were going through identity and loss of youth mid-life crisis sort of stuff, the procedures they had done, boob lift, mini-face lifts, botox etc. not only had complications but I could hardly see much of a difference.

At that time I choose to spend my money on a sabbatical and travel. It was a “natural” face lift…the face lift you get from contentment, rest and fun! :-D

I just can’t reconcile spending 10–20k on my face and boobs…why?

For that amount of money I can not work for a year and sit in my hot tub with a happy brownie. The effect is the same and it is far less invasive. lol

@Coloma :)

Anyone else ever notice that when Hypo posts a question about breasts, or short skirts (“minis”) or thongs, the Related Questions on the right are often similar questions authored by him?

@Coloma I’d like to see women have more self esteem within themselves rather than resorting to perkier breasts and other cosmetic procedures to give them the “lift” that they really need to find and be secure with from the inside out. :-) The truth of the matter is she feels she won’t get to the point of bowling him over with her sense of poetry, or how she graduated magna cum laude out of her college because he is going to be checking out her friend with the perky breast, legs for days with no cottage cheese, and that apple round butt. That is what is going to happen in the real world, and even more so in their world.

I just can’t reconcile spending 10–20k on my face and boobs…why? Because the culture you are in tells you that if you didn’t look hot and beautiful, you might not get as good of a job. Whoever goes there to eat, buy, etc. feels better if they see a pretty woman, that makes them feel better. When they feel better, they spend more money. Top that off, if you are one of the few 34C in your neck of town, getting dates, and a mate is that much harder. That is why you will hawk everything even grandma’s ring to get ”pumped up”

@JLeslie Also, I think there is a difference between changing a feature, and trying to maintain youth. If someone is flat as a board and wants breasts, or has a huge nose, I can completely understand altering oneself. First off, they are not all old women, many are young. Sagging jowls, and bags under the eyes are far from them. You turn 15 and people are telling you what size chest you are going to move up to, don’t seem to address wrinkles they don’t have yet. Second, what is wrong with being 34A if that is the way you are? If it is about your personality, charm and wit, you tell me a woman can have all that an not overcome the fact of not being 36C or 36D? Doesn’t say much for the power of inner beauty. If I don’t want people staring at my eye patch, and the parrot on my shoulder, if I did so when I didn’t need to, how can I expect no one not to notice? If a woman don’t want to be known as a ”pair of tits”, or have men speaking to her chest, getting them puppies remanufactured is going to help promote that? I don’t get that.

That is what men have and that is what women want. I knew it, they want balls and a penis, who needs that crappy uterus anyhow. All it does is bring forth the miracle of life, how useful it shat?

@FutureMemory Anyone else ever notice that when Hypo posts a question about breasts, or short skirts (“minis”) or thongs, the Related Questions on the right are often similar questions authored by him? Because those other <yawn, yawn YAWN> subjects pertaining to politics, game, trivia, or the all time favorite “Do he like me”, <YAWN> exciting questions were already gobbled up.—OH SNAP!. All that was left was the area pointing out the hypocrisy in attractiveness.—

@Hypocrisy_Central Of course it is two different things, two different age groups (well usually it is. I do know a few women who had boob jobs in their forties to increase size and some nose jobs also, same as I know 30 year olds who get botox already, but those are exceptions). If the woman with a 34A chest feels great about herself – awesome. I don’t think she needs to change a thing. But, we can’t ignore that most women are at least a B, and especially in the United States breasts are coveted. Just finding clothing that fits would be difficult as most tops are made for women who have at least a little cup size going on. I would assume in nature breasts are a sign of fertility, so maybe there is some sort of innate thing that goes on with men finding some curves attractive. Typically I am not overly keen on those types of explanations, because I think most human beings in the end pair up with people for much more than body type. But, physical attraction counts to some extent.

@Hypocrisy_Central

I’m aware these things are of concern to many, but, I think that the cosmetic scene is narcissistic an outta control nightmare and, the monster just keeps growing.

I think feeling inadequate because one does not look like a Victorias Secret model is a sad commentary on a culture that places so much value on the external.

I can relate to an older woman maybe wishing to “perk” up her looks a bit, but, when teens and young women feel the need to go under the knife to ramp up their competitive value, sorry, I see that as sad and unhealthy.

Plastic surgery was invented to help those with disfigurements and I think the industry and original “need” for these types of surgeries have been bastardized beyond comprehension.

Of course I like to look nice, but, if I feel I must go under the knife to enhance my marketability, again, no thanks.

I also know 3 women that have had very bad experiences with permanent nerve damage, disfigured breasts, and one young ( 30ish ) mother who had a stroke after a tummy tuck a few years ago, leaving her permanently partially paralyzed with 2 small children to care for.

@Coloma I also know 3 women that have had very bad experiences with permanent nerve damage, disfigured breasts, and one young ( 30ish ) mother who had a stroke after a tummy tuck a few years ago, leaving her permanently partially paralyzed with 2 small children to care for. See, those things happening is why I cannot understand why some people have no fear of doing the surgery. But, I guess it is like people who are afraid to fly cannot understand why people take the risk of getting on a plane.

Ok, here’s the thing. There is a group of feminists (and there are many schools) that are anti-plastic surgery because they inevitably see women getting surgery as brainwashed victims. They’re also anti-pornography, anti-prostitution, etc. etc. I do not align myself with this particular group because I account both for human agency and for each of us operating within systems that are somewhat outside our control. The treatment of women as objects and the consequent pressure for women both in the U.S. and Venezuela (there is now an expansion of treating men as objects but the proportion is less and men still retain their subjectivity in society) to care more than necessary about their physical appearance can not be understood as if they each make this decision separately from patriarchy. It is true that, to each individual, it seems they have free will but, of course, there are also societal patterns that put pressure or encourage women to do what they do. There is a high value in Venezuela on a certain look and, clearly, if that’s how everyone wants to look, that’s what every girl growing up will want until they shift the current. As far as feminism being all about choice, it’s not as simple as that. For example, when it comes to reproductive freedom, I, as a feminist, feel that every woman has a right to her body and should have the option to abort or not without ANY issues. yet, I feel that the man who contributed to the fetus should have rights as well on the subject of abortion of his child, as well. Otoh, there are some women who proclaim themselves as feminists but belong to a group that I term ‘spice girl feminists’ where they have mistaken attnention for acting sexy for men as empowerment under the rubric of ‘it’s my choice’. We can make choices all the time and that’s good but we shouldn’t forget what the context of our choices involves.

Thank you, @Simone_De_Beauvoir. Now I have another name to put with my thoughts on what I’ve called the MTV Generation of women.

@bkcunningham Yep, sure thing.