Negative Connotation with the word "Atheist"?

Atheist, from Greek, means without god, or godless. Godless is a pejorative term so it should come as no surprise that atheist is treated the same way..

I assume it is personal, because to me the word has a positive ring to it.

Well, to be literal, the very word “atheist” (a-theist) is a negative… that is, it means “not theist”. Maybe there should be a more positive label, like “rationalist” or something.

I’d like to add that I don’t hate Atheists. I respect them even more than Christians and I watch TheAmazingAtheist a lot and agree with most of his views excluding that God definitely isn’t real where I’d argue there’s still a slim possibility.

Even before being an atheist, I never thought the word had a negative connotation at all.

I think “atheist”, like “communist”, “socialist”, “liberal”, “abortionist” are political hot button words meant to emotionally separate out the abhorrent from the masses of right-thinkers. It gives people who might disagree on major issues a feeling of commonality. Against those devils.

I agree that there is a pejorative feel to it, for the reasons that @LostInParadise, @dappled_leaves, and @Blueroses state..

The atheist group in my neighborhood calls itself “freethinkers.” Apparently this term has some currency and history:
[ source 1 ]
[ source 2 ]
[ source 3 ]

As an atheist myself, I’m uncomfortable with the term. I don’t like defining myself in opposition to something, particularly not when using that something as a reference point seems to make an assertion about its existence, at least as an idea that has some power to define. It’s as if we were saying, “You see that God guy over there? Well, we don’t believe in him.” I don’t believe in any gods, not just one of them.

But not-believing is not an active, busy thing I do. Rather, to me it means living quite comfortably and confidently (and ethically too, and respectfully toward life and nature) without the intrusion of an irrational and untenable set of beliefs whose main effects are to bind, confuse, and control through guilt and fear.

I think it definitely has a negative connotation. Whenever there is a theism-vs-atheism battle, you always hear the theists call the the atheists ”[insert insult here] atheists”, but the atheists never say “We’re atheists and we’re proud”. They normally use a different term, like as an above response said “freethinkers”. The word “atheist” is used alongside insults more often, even though the dictionary definition is perfectly neutral.

@PhiNotPi So it’s sort of like in the way “gay” has a negative connotation?

All I know is that the atheists who tend to speak up on Fluther tend to be narrow-minded and judgmental. IRL I have never met someone who judged me because I believe in God, so in the real world, for me there are no negative connotations. Here on Fluther it is full of negative connotations because I know that if I say what I believe I will be judged negatively and persistently without hesitation.

@SuperMouse Are you calling me narrow-minded and judgmental? The ironic part is that your first sentence uses “atheist” in a negative sense.

EDIT: But I do think that it is a bad thing that atheist has a more negative connotation on Fluther than elsewhere.

That’s a real shame @SuperMouse because I feel I align with @Jeruba. I don’t have a thing against people who have faith. I have my own set of values and beliefs and even if we (theists and a-theists) don’t call them the same thing or ascribe the same dogma to them, our values are similar. What the hell is the point of trying to denigrate somebody else’s foundations? Talk about hurtful futility.

@PhiNotPi with apologies to you and everyone else here on Fluther who has not attacked theists, allow me to say I do not think of you as narrow-minded and judgmental. There is a thread where many atheists had no problem whatsoever attacking (no I do not believe attacking is too strong a word) thiests solely because they believe in God. Yes, my first sentence speaks negatively about a certain atheists who seem to believe it is not only ok but completely appropriate to think less of someone because of what they believe. In general @blueroses I agree with you, I do not judge people based on what they believe. I will however judge people based on their treatment of me.

@SuperMouse It’s ok, I know that you weren’t talking about me.

@SuperMouse If you’re talking about my other question, it was out of curiosity, not an attack. The fact that people claim something to be real that has no supporting evidence boggles my mind and I wanted to see it from a theist’s perspective. My examples were examples that you can choose to admit, but because of those examples being the only ones I could think of is the reason I won’t go as far to claim God to be real but I will say that it is a possibility.

Psst. “Atheist” and “agnostic” are not mutually exclusive. You’re probably an atheist.

@Ivan I say we don’t know if God exists and I consider the possibility of God (or a higher power in general). Atheists don’t consider the possibility. Agnostics say we don’t know.

@comicalmayhem nope, not talking about your other question. I am talking most directly about this question. When I first responded in that question I hadn’t felt judged because of my beliefs, by the end I absolutely did.

Regarding your other question, 1) I am not the least bit interested in the labels you put on my reason for believing in God and as I said there, if it makes you feel better to label it and fit it into one of your suggestions, then so be it; 2) From the jump I pretty much expected to be called out for somehow for what I wrote so it was neither surprising nor offending.

@SuperMouse Weird, ‘cause I thought you and me had a good interaction on that q and I’m one of those fluther atheists that ‘speaks up’, whatever that means’

The word atheist is gasped at because there are more religious people than atheists. You should check your biases and move on.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir Well, everyone has biases. I’ve noticed the word atheist having a negative connotation with my christian friends and people on yahoo answers.

“The amazing atheist” is a perfect reason to associate negativity with the word.

@digitalimpression I highly disagree. He’s funny and has great political views. He doesn’t talk about religion as much as his name might suggest, but when he does, he’s rational about it.
Most of his videos are about his views on the world in general as well as current political and social events.

@comicalmayhem I’ve suffered my way through several of his videos and personally find him to be crass, caustic, and very lonely. But of course, we can disagree. =)

It doesn’t. You are really stuck on this subject, aren’t ya?

@digitalimpression He’s sarcastic and eccentric and shares his views with satire. He mocks religion freely, which is why some religious people who watch his videos (why would you watch them?) do not like him.
He hates the world’s “decline” as he might call it and complains in almost every video. But that’s his persona. If you watch his videos, you’re looking for complaints about the world mixed in with sarcastic humor.
I can see why Christians would hate TheAmazingAtheist as they’d probably be looking for the ones aimed directly at religion. We can disagree though.

@perspicacious It doesn’t with you, but with a lot of other people it does.

@comicalmayhem One can only answer for one’s self. Your statement that it does with a lot of other people is quite presumptive and ignorant, unless you have a list of names of people of a length that would qualify as “a lot of other people” who have shared their thoughts on this with you. It’s a worn out subject here. Maybe you could come up with something else to ask about.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir weird cause I thought that theists were called “ignorant” among many other things in that thread. Check my remarks upthread here and you will note that I was talking about those who made all kinds of nasty remarks there, if you didn’t you need not believe you are included.

@comicalmayhem

“Atheists don’t consider the possibility.”

That’s a misconception. Agnosticism deals with knowledge, whereas atheism deals with belief. You say we don’t know whether or not a god exists; that makes you an agnostic. But if I asked you whether you believed in a god, would you say yes? If not, then you lack a belief in god, and are therefore an atheist by definition. Simply by the construction of the word, one is either a theist or an atheist, in the same way that one either owns a minivan or does not. Whether or not you’re an agnostic is an entirely separate matter.

@Ivan “But if I asked you whether you believed in a god, would you say yes?”
I would say no. But then you need to consider the question: “Do you not believe in God?”
Which my answer would be no, and of course there is elaboration: I believe in the possibility.

Atheists would answer no to the former and yes to the latter. They do not believe in god.
Agnostics ultimately say no to the former and no to the latter. They do not believe in god, but they at the same time do. Contradiction? Yes, without the elaboration. The difference being Agnostics don’t go as far as to say yes to the second question.

Like religion, I’d blame poor representation..

As an atheist, it saddens me to know that there is still some negative connotation to the word.

I don’t rant/rave on Christians simply because I don’t have time, but if they shove their beliefs down my throat when I am minding my own business in public, you better believe I will speak up (and I have!).

I blame the fact that our country is filled with Christians. Some are cool but many can’t fathom the idea of OTHER people not having faith and having morals without faith. So they get really upset and put us down. Eh.

In the U.S. there is at least one openly gay member of Congress, Barney Frank. Someone who is openly an atheist would have zero chance of getting elected to Congress or as president. Maybe things are not so bad for atheists in some European countries, but I imagine it is the same situation for most other countries.

I think many people associate negativity with atheism because there are many atheists out there who are in general rude and judgmental towards people of faith, calling their beliefs stupid, irrational, etc. Then again, the same could be said about many overzealous religious people towards atheists, which is why many atheists also associate negativity with religion. There’s a difference between having a spirited debate on the subject and being insulting about it, there’s a thin line and many people often cross it when discussing it.

I would probably consider myself an atheist, possibly agnostic, and I have no real problem with people who believe in God or a higher being. However, I do have a problem with people trying to shove their beliefs on me and make me believe what they think is correct, and I think that’s where a lot of religious people and atheists are coming from with their negative connotation on either side. It pretty much goes both ways. Many religious people would say to atheists, “Oh, you’re going to Hell because you don’t believe in God and you don’t follow the Ten Commandments!” But that’s not to say all religious people are like that, not even close. On the other hand, many atheists would say to a religious person, “Oh, you’re so dumb because you believe in God. Why would you believe something so ridiculous, it’s like believing in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny!” Again, not all atheists are like this, I wouldn’t even say the majority are like that. But it’s the people that do act like that, who are self-righteous about their beliefs and look down upon those who don’t agree, that give the concept a bad name.

Another reason for it might be that for thousands of years, a majority of societies were mainly, if not completely, religion based, and not believing in a God was practically unheard of. Often times, it was even considered a crime not to believe in God. I think the fact that atheism has been a much more recent development than religion is where a lot of religious families/people get the idea that it’s “bad.” It’s much like the conflict about homosexuals. For thousands of years, no one would even think of not being attracted to the opposite sex, or at least admit it. Being “straight” was the established norm, and being gay was “weird” or “ridiculous” or “just a phase.” But as time goes on, sure enough, much of society is more accepting of the idea. Religion is a much more established belief, and I think in the future, once it becomes more commonplace and people get used to the idea, atheism might be more accepted in society as well.

Not always, no. The atheists that I am friends with or related to have never insulted me or berated me for my beliefs, so I don’t have any negative feelings about them. A lot of atheists on the internet, however, are an entirely different thing. They are perfectly free to hide behind their keyboards and say whatever they like with no repercussions, and frequently say all sorts of nasty things about theists. That makes me associate them with nothing but negativity, much of the time.

I was looking for something more on the lines of pronunciation of the word.
Like I heard something about writing comedy where if you use the sound “ck” as in “black”, it makes the line more effective. That’s spoken word writing like TV and Movies, not novels.

But maybe it is just stereotypes. “Muslim” also has a negative connotation in [prejudice] America.

Now I feel like I overwrote, haha.

@comicalmayhem that is why I write it as a-theist. I’m not a part of the group who would make WWFC or @SuperMouse feel uncomfortable about what they believe. You can’t challenge a belief. It’s stupid and cruel to try. If I don’t agree, so be it. I don’t think I’m going to the hell I don’t believe in.
If you want to argue dogmatic issues, I’m there. I’ll never strike a blow at a person’s keystone. That’s a spiritual kick in the ‘nads.

@comicalmayhem

I’m not going to repeat myself. Your understanding of the words is incorrect.

@Ivan Reread my response. It’s spot on. I’ve been agnostic for about a year and have looked into it. I’ve considered Atheism, but thought it to be a bit illogical to claim that God definitely doesn’t exist. But I used to be Christian until I found it illogical to claim that God definitely does exist. It’s about what we know to me, not what we think we know. To think we know something seems ignorant.
I’ve also considered ignosticism as I believe God is undefinable if existent. But I’m agnostic because there’s really not much of a difference anyway where agnostics say “higher power but we don’t know what it is” without drawing a conclusion that the higher power exists or doesn’t exist. I’m in between. I’m could be either agnostic or ignostic, but I choose agnostic because it’s more common and well-known where in ignosticism, I’d just be corrected with “don’t you mean agnostic**?”
Your mistake might be not knowing the difference between agnosticism and atheism.

@comicalmayhem

“Your mistake might be not knowing the difference between agnosticism and atheism.”

Holy shit wow. I literally just laid out the definitions of both of those words quite clearly. From this point forward, I will assume that you’re a troll.

@Ivan Actually Ivan, I apologize. On wikipedia it says an agnostic atheist is a person “who do not believe any deity exists, but do not deny it as a possibility”. So I guess I’m an agnostic atheist or ignostic atheist.

(Which still doesn’t make sense to me because it doesn’t seem that an atheist of any form would consider the possibility of God, but I guess it’s the literal term.)

@comicalmayhem

Thank you.

In my experience with atheists, it seems that their agenda is to disprove God, like they are right and it is just so definite because they’ve come from rough housed societies. I’ve heard all kinds of deranged arguments such as, “If God exists, why did he break up my parents marriage? That’s why I’m atheist!” So that’s why I feel a negative connotation with the term atheist. I also feel like, when one attack anothers belief, they become a put down, tyrant minded type. Don’t get me wrong, some practicing Christians are behind the notion that they are to shove their ideas down someones throat. I think we can all agree that anyone trying to shove an idea down anyones throat is just wrong and brash.

There’s a bunch of reasons that don’t help our image (can’t be good without god, atheism was linked to communism in the 50s (in the US at least), etc..), but I think the most common underlying annoyance at the moment is that many of the arguments atheists make about the negative impacts of religion, and the lack of evidence for god, are…how can I put this…..justified.

And thus, of course we’re disliked, by some. Any group of people that effectively challenges well established instituions or ideologies, will be disliked by those that want to keep the status quo, or feel threatened by the associated implications for their own beliefs. Those groups and individuals perpetuate negative connotations, because it is the best rhetorical defense they can muster.

Hence many theists by and large focus on tone/poisioning the well, rather than addressing the argument.

@SuperMouse “Yes, my first sentence speaks negatively about a certain atheists who seem to believe it is not only ok but completely appropriate to think less of someone because of what they believe.”

Wait a minute…so it is in fact okay for someone to think less of someone beause of their beliefs….as long as it’s a theist like yourself doing the judging. :)

@Blueroses Yes, you’re truly kind and well-spoken when it comes to talking about differences in belief systems. And I think I speak for all Fluther theists when I say, we appreciate that.

@AdamF if someone is going to call me ignorant and my beliefs absurd, yes I am going to judge that person for their treatment of me. If you are trying to tell me that you don’t judge those theists who put you down because you don’t believe in God I am dubious. There is a huge difference between judging someone based on the way the treat you and passing a knee jerk judgment based solely on what they believe.

It was merely a comment on the sentence, which directly contradicted itself, which I thought was amusing, hence the smiley. I know what you meant, perhaps I should have made that clearer.

But I also think that regardless of whether someone treats me badly, it is still reasonable to judge someone based purely on their beliefs, in some cases. Some people chose to adopt horrible unfounded beliefs. How could I not judge an educated person who joins a neo-nazi organization as an adult for instance, regardless of whether I myself fit their stereotype as a pure aryan.

@AdamF good point, thanks.

No worries… :)

@dreamwolf, I’m bothered by this: “In my experience with atheists, it seems that their agenda is to disprove God . . .”

Not doubting your word, but you sure do need to know a different class of atheists. Those I know are much more like me. I have no agenda whatsoever with respect to God (any god) other than to be let alone about my absence of belief.

I don’t wish to persuade anyone or disrupt anyone’s beliefs. In mixed groups I generally don’t bring up my beliefs at all and am quietly tolerant and respectful when I hear others speak about theirs, even if they’re busy assuming I agree with them. I’m comfortable enough with my own convictions that I don’t feel a need to set everyone straight if they misconstrue my position. If asked, I will answer truthfully but without attacking, although if I’m pushed or harangued I might indeed mount a stronger defense.

I think both trying to prove and trying to disprove the existence of an unseen supreme supernatural being are foolish endeavors, doomed to futility. I doubt that anyone can ever accomplish either one conclusively; it’s been tried by some of the greatest minds in human history. Even if they did succeed in logical terms, they’d confront flat-out denial from the other camp, because zealots are not interested in proof.

For my part, I fear zealots of every stripe and prefer to follow the path of my own understanding without interference and without interfering with others as they do the same.

I think you’re wrong here: “I think we can all agree that anyone trying to shove an idea down anyones throat is just wrong and brash.” If we all agreed with that, there’d be no one doing any shoving, and yet the woods are thick with proselytizers and zealots whose mission is elimination of any who differ with them, the most benign and humane means to that end being conversion. They think their god wants them to do this.

I don’t think there’s anyone there to command me to do such a thing.

Relevant blog post addressing the original question just came out..

http://freethoughtblogs.com/greta/2011/09/29/is-the-word-atheist-negative/