Why would women go out with guys who dress and behave like slobs?

Sometimes it’s lack of self esteem. Sometimes they’re just stupid.

My mother was a beautiful woman who was very… *What’s the word? hmmm… Conscience of what other people thought. My father is the most obnoxious A-hole you would ever want to meet. She would agree to go out with him, and she was always very poised and respectful, always dressed to the nines and looked classy, to his intentionally and with intent toward making her embarassed… he would behave loudly, get food on himself, slurp his liquids and bang the utensils on the plates…

He also held his fork like a troglydite and when they got older, he would intentionally take out his false teeth at the table and lick them clean. Which usually made her want to die. *Which is exactly why I think he did it?

I can’t say that they loved each other? Mostly he was an embarassment to her… I have no idea why she stayed other than the fact that she had kids and wasted so much of her life on him… She probably felt trapped.

Those people might be feeling exactly what you do… But mostly people don’t go around announcing their disatisfactions and miserys outwardly.

So basically… Don’t judge, she may very well agree with you, or she could just be a well dressed slag herself and simply hide it better? Dress doesn’t necessarily show the person but behavior does.

You never know what is going on in the background noise in someone else’s life or head. I feel horrible at the thought of all those years my beautiful, respectful and poised mom, had to be publically subjected to that treatment as well as others viewing her as accepting of it when inside, she was tormented by it.

Perhaps he is a great guy who cares for her, has a sense of humor and is smart. Dress is just an exterior quality.

Unfortunately I think some women start to get desperate and will take any guy with a job after they turn about 28 or so.
But there are also women who like to dress up for themselves, or because they feel they must compete with other women.
Then there is the woman who dates the loser just for company and will dress to the 9’s because she never knows if she may bump into Mr. Right while out with said loser.
You never know. They may not all have been couples. Except for the one couple, they might’ve just been friends.
Overall, I think society has forgot how to get dressed. Last year I went to a nice resturant with friends for a birthday celebration and everyone of our group was dressed nicely, but half the people coming in were dressed like they were going to McDonalds. Even one of the people who came to the celebration wore an actual white undershirt, wrinkled.

There could be a lot more to the story than how they were dressed.

A few guys I hang out with are all in their early-mid 30’s. They typically where somewhat “vintage” looking blue jeans, t-shirts, a few of them ball caps… and that’s out at restaurants and bars… even if their g/f’s are dressed super nice (hell I do that too, save for the ball cap).

But the flip side that you’d have over-looked because you’re judging them on their apparel, is that all of them have good jobs, houses, nice cars, they’re nice guys, good to their girls, fun/funny to be around… heck they’re even in a band.

Maybe they didn’t have a chance to go home and change? Maybe a million things. You can’t judge someone simply based on how they’re dressed.

Now if they were being inconsiderate dicks, spilling food everywhere, being rude to their g/f’s, etc… you would have a case.

From the opinions of many women, it seems some women will date a 600lb guy with 8 kids as long as he has a good personality.

There are many reasons why, and I’m in the same boat as you, I don’t get why some do this.

I agree I am making an assumption about their personalities based solely upon their appearance. That is all the data I have. But odds are slim they all just got out of the operating room and did not have time to change. If you are single and in a sports bar, fine, wear anything you want. But if you are on a date you should give your partner the respect she deserves. All things being equal, as a woman, which would you rather look at and been seen in public with; a ball cap wearer or a nicely dressed guy? Sure it is superficial, but so is your hair, makeup, dress, shoes.

Read @GabrielsLamb post above. Do you want to go through live dreading going out in public with your man? Isn’t it better to drop him now while you’re just dating and have the chance?
Why do we accept the minimum standard?

@worriedguy I think there may be a slight stereotype at work here as well. Women are expected to have a better fashion sense than men, and men can get away with some faux pas because of this. It also doesn’t help that some think a man that dresses too well might be considered gay or metro, which shows a lack of masculinity to some people.

The typical image of an older guy is some khaki shorts with high socks and new balance shoes. Some older men do this, and many have no problem with it because “meh, that’s just ole dad” or something like that.

@worriedguy Ladies… He is right! Drop it like it’s hot before you turn into my mom!

How do you know it’s a date? Maybe they are all married?

I was in a restaurant a few nights ago and there were four couples in their early 60s at a table next to us. It was kind of funny. The four men sat together and the four women sat together. They might as well have been in different worlds. The women were all dressed to the nines and the men were wearing jeans and t-shirts.

I think that the uniform for men is changing these days. Dressing down is cool. It’s like men are ok being themselves, but women have to be eye candy. Is that so far from reality?

Maybe they enjoy looking nice and getting dressed up, but aren’t so shallow to judge everyone around them by their compliance with this practice.

worriedguy dictionary:
dress like a slob: to wear informal clothing when/where worriedguy thinks it inappropriate
behave like a slob: to wear informal clothing when/where worriedguy thinks it inappropriate

I enjoy dressing up, for the right occasion, but I abhor the superficiality of the instant judgment people make about a person by their clothes. There is a lot more going on than you can see, and a lot more to every person than what they chose to wear at the particular time they were unlucky enough to fall under your judgmental eye.

Some people don’t give a shit what clothes other people wear. Come on, now.

@wundayatta You asked how did I know it was a date? They were sitting boy, girl, boy, girl,.and you could tell by the body English who was with whom. Only one woman was wearing ring.

@nikipedia But, again, all things being equal, which would you rather be sitting next to at a nice restaurant? Last time you went out to a nice place, did you do your hair, lipstick, eyes, or spend more than one minute deciding what to put on? If you are 20 and in school it is fine to play poor and wear anything. . But once we are in the real, working, adult world and are in a nice restaurant I believe the guys should man up and wear big boy underwear. Many guys are basically lazy and, like sewage, will naturally flow downhill unless expectations are set early.

Being a slob or not caring is a data point, a small sign of thing to come.

Read @GabrielsLamb post again. I wish I could give her 10 GAs

The last time I went out to a nice restaurant was Friday night and we had great Japanese food. We had a lot of really good sashimi and this weird pickled jellyfish thing, and hot sake.

I have no idea what either of us wore.

I do not give one one millionth of a shit.

@Smashley I agree it is a superficial, snap judgment. People are free to dress any way they wish. Even to a job interview. Let me know how it works out for you.
You don’t need money to wear a button down shirt or not wear a backwards ball cap. Like it or not, in the adult world, your appearance matters. It is a data point.

Look up the book “Blink” by Malcolm Gladwell. It discusses the snap decisions we make in the blink of an eye and how occasionally they are incorrect but, by far, they are correct.

@nikipedia (Hey, you know I love ya’!) But, are you going to tell me you didn’t wear any makeup or put on lipstick, or eyeliner, etc? I don’t believe it. Hopefully he afforded you the same courtesy. But then again, you’re still in school, right?

@worriedguy I’ve quoted Gladwell about that, too, but I still wonder if it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy. How can you objectively measure how a person really is? You might be able to take a poll and confirm that others do or do not perceive that person the same way, but that doesn’t mean the perception is true.

I think the notion of snap judgment is very problematic.

@worriedguy :: I have had dinner with Nikipedia. She doesn’t need make-up.

@nikipedia: “The last time I went out to a nice restaurant was Friday night and we had great Japanese food. We had a lot of really good sashimi and this weird pickled jellyfish thing, and hot sake.

I have no idea what either of us wore.

I do not give one one millionth of a shit.”

This made my day.

I wouldn’t care. Unless he or she smelled.

@johnpowell Ahhh…but she still enjoys the blessing of youth… I’m guessing she did a little primping before she met you. And you did the same. Heck I’d even primp for you! ;-).
You’re a lucky guy.

@worriedguy – You miss the point. Of course we make instantaneous judgments about people, which we often reinforce thereafter with a strong confirmation bias. My point was that you have no idea what was going on, who these people were, what their beliefs and standards are regarding attire, and yet you’re regarding the males as some kind of offender because their attire doesn’t match your opinion of suitability.

Maybe they were kinky, and having only the girls dress up was a kind of sexy power dynamic. Maybe the girls get dressed up because they enjoy dressing up. Given that one couple was married, you were probably encountering three couples with some amount of history: perhaps the showy part of the mating ritual is complete, and the people are all wearing what they feel comfortable in, personally, without making demands on their partners.

Did you ask the females what they thought of the situation?

@Smashley Oh, I get the point. I’m just saying that it is a sign, a data point, a potential indicator of things to come. If the guys won’t dress up to go to this place, odds are they will not dress up to go to other places. (It was a nice restaurant.). If the guys are not dressing up as a sign of respect for the women that is another indicator. The assumptions might be wrong, but if you had to bet….

Oh, and if you are over 30 and one of the guys wearing the ball cap backwards I have a secret tip for you. Sometime around the age of 28 all women figure out that any guy wearing a cap indoors has either not washed his hair or is suffering from early (or late) male pattern baldness. Even if he secretly has hair like Fabio, they will assume the cap is covering chromedomeatude. They’ll deny it, of course, but they’ll make a mental note. Yet another data point.

@worriedguy:-Sometime around the age of 28 all women figure out that any guy wearing a cap indoors has either not washed his hair or is suffering from early (or late) male pattern baldness.

I fall into the subset of “all women” and never remotely thought about this.

Hygiene is one thing; an absolute definition of “slob” is another.

And one could make the case that many women are too invested in their superficial appearance…fussing over hair, clothes and make-up is not necessarily a good thing. It can sometimes lead to obsessive behavior.

I have not worn make-up or used a hair dresser in 20 years. My social and romantic life (when I was still interested) has not suffered.

Not to derail the thread, but I thought the point of Blink was twofold: sometimes snap judgments are surprisingly accurate, but under the wrong circumstances, they’re unsurprisingly inaccurate (e.g., Amadou Diallo).

And I am still in school, but I am in like 19th grade now, so I’m not sure if it counts.

And thanks for the compliments, gentlemen. If I ever have dinner with @worriedguy I will wear lipstick and eyeliner.

I know a lot of us automatically make snap judgements about people, based on their appearance, but if you take a few minutes to really think about it- what’s wrong with wearing jeans, tshirt and ballcap to dinner as long as the guy was being kind to his date and wasn’t cussing out the waiter?

I’ll admit that I occasionally apply a minimal amount of makeup to go out and normally wear a dressier blouse and shoes to a “nice” restaurant, but I still frequently wear jeans. I like jeans, they’re comfortable and they make my ass look good.

@nikipedia And I promise to wear my “big boy” underwear. :-)

@worriedguy No, your Underoos are much more sexy!

@WillWorkForChocolate I can probably find my kids’ He Man undies someplace.

I really like the fitted jean look on the right person. Coupled with heels and a blouse few looks are sexier.

When you get dressed up with “minimal amount of makeup… normally wear a dressier blouse and shoes to a “nice” restaurant, but I still frequently wear jeans.” would you prefer your date to wear a ball cap backwards, t-shirt and sneakers or oxford shirt, khakis and shoes? Your choice – pick honestly.
In both cases the underoos are hidden.

@nikipedia Yes the point of the book was that sometimes the snap judgment are wrong but they are more often right. Evolution favored the ones who instantly made the right choice. Either way, a snap judgment will be made. Why start off handicapped?

@worriedguy I think what you are trying to convey, *Put and taken from a female perspective is how when you lower your standards, people do tend to judge you as well as your company. It happens, no matter if people admit it or never do and swear they aren’t judgemental. The mere way the human eye is made is conducive to judgement, the way the eye connects to the brain is conducive to judgement.

If a man cares for you, he should care to, in the very least, take the time to show you and anyone looking the pride and respect that in many cases now days has failed the girls in even knowing they should require that as a show of affection, respect and bonding in the first place. It’s allowing laziness and disrespect. “You teach people how to treat you.”

It is common sense really and these guys shouldn’t be allowed to be SO lax and selfish that they let her share the ill gotten glow of their slovenliness as a life choice.

That’s why they say “COUPLE” as in two, involved, together… one should reflect the other. Beach attire is not acceptible in a nice establishment.

I have tattoos, they’re pretty obvious, and as a rule… Out of respect, if I go out on a date with a guy, I always take the time to ask if he minds if they show, or if he prefers them be covered.

Usually they say it’s okay, but certainly I would never disrespect his public image of what he wants to protray of himself and leave them exposed because I like them, especially if I like him more.

And if he became a boyfriend, and hated them, I would never go out in public with him unless they were covered. Even if they required make-up to do so.

My father may be an A-hole… But watching my mom suffer for so many years… She raised me right!

@GabrielsLamb You said it much better than I, plus you bring the woman’s perspective. And, sadly, have the first-hand experience.

In reverse, I have noticed that since I have lost weight and dress cute, do my hair and make-up etc, other men treat my husband better. It’s like, “So what’s so special about you that ‘SHE’ likes you?” When I was way over weight it was almost like, “Sorry dude. I’m sure you didn’t marry her that way.”
Of course no one ever said those things, but I could sense it. It’s like an attitude.

@I feel ya judi!

@GabrielsLamb You get it! Hey, are you free next Friday? I know a nice restaurant. ;-)

Kids… they never listen… they just never listen…

@worriedguy My husband usually wears jeans and a tshirt. Sometimes he wears a ballcap, depending on where we’re eating. If we go to a truly “nice” restaurant, he’ll still wear jeans, but with a polo type shirt. Then again, jeans, tshirts and caps are standard uniform for a lot of people here in Texas, haha.

I know it’s been the style for a lot of guys since I was a teen to “dress down” but I’ve never been a fan and have never wanted to date a man who presented that way. I’ve been called shallow and stuck up but I’ve not been sorry.

The man I was married to and the men I’ve had relationships since then have all been snappy dressers when it comes to going out. I don’t think I’ve ever passed up a diamond in the rough.

My husband doesn’t dress up to go out. I do. I mean, he is clean, shaven, deodoranted (yes, I made that up.), and his teeth are brushed… but the odds of catching him in anything but holey jeans, a polo, and a baseball cap are slim to none. It takes a major event to get him dressed up, and even then he tries to get by with the bare minimum. He hates getting dressed up, and I really don’t care. He has virtually no sense of style, but that isn’t exactly a quality that I look for in the person I want to spend my life with. I don’t care what he wears, he has a big heart and he makes me happy. The fact that his wardrobe is lacking snazzy clothes has zero bearing on my interest in him. Then again, I don’t think of myself as a particularly superficial person.

Different people want and provide different things in a relationship. Maybe they want to look that way themselves, but don’t mind if their men aren’t as pretty as they are. Vive la difference!

I certainly don’t require my woman to be as good in a fight as I am. Though I would find it hot…;-)

Those guys probably didn’t appreciate your outfit either, if they noticed. The details you’re proud of would be meaningless to them, just like their reasoning for their clothing choices weren’t appreciated by you.

And they probably thought your date looked better than you did, and should find someone else to be with.

Someone more like them.

Or, if they were smart, they spent that time telling the ladies they were with how nice they looked and how lucky they felt to be with them.

Yeh, it’s the gangstah style.. sneakers, low baggy pants, ball caps, t-shirts. It’s not my thing at all because I just can’t take someone who looks like that seriously.

1) they have low self esteem.

2) they are women, and so are predisposed to care more about the inside of a person than the outside of a person, which is a noble trait.

3) maybe they’re getting dolled up, not for the other guy, but b/c they enjoy it for reasons other than b/c they expect their guy to do it to. it may be separate.

Maybe because they’re less threatening? I think guys who dress and behave like slobs do so because they themselves are afraid to “man-up”, that is, assume the identity of a mature and responsible adult male. They don’t want to grow up. Being like children, these guys attract women who want to baby them, mollify their insecurities and take care of them, even boss them around and dominate them. Most slobbish men are unconscious of this, but you see them all the time in public, in their baseball caps to cover their messy hair, with their unshaved dirty faces and pot bellies or geeky looks, in sweats or t-shirts. Lol.

But you’re absolutely right @worriedguy. Most guys these days are nothing but slobs, pitifully.

@MRSHINYSHOES It’s hard being the exception that has to whip these men into shape…...You, worriedguy and I will never get to rest. :/

I know this is a pet peeve of mine, but c’mon…

@MRSHINYSHOES: “I think guys who dress and behave like slobs do so because they themselves are afraid to “man-up”, that is, assume the identity of a mature and responsible adult male. They don’t want to grow up. Being like children,...”

Are you for fucking real? Seriously, I know you did use “I think” to qualify this, but is this some kind of instinct thing or do you have something else you’re basing this on?

@MRSHINYSHOES Yeah, that’s a turn-off.

Assuming all possible answers are already written I just want to say that whenever I hear or read the word baseball cap the last couple of years this scene of “The Wire” comes to mind.

@Blackberry @MRSHINYSHOES

Know what? Let’s leave the ball cap guys alone. It is pretty clear that stacks the odds in our favor. Their loss is our gain. ;-)

Lol! Was that guy serious?

More

Guys

Stacking

Your

Odds

Make sure those cuff links are shined though gentlemen, it’s the key to dating.

@tom_g Guys dress and behave like slobs because—

1) They’re too lazy to take care of how they look;

2) They don’t care how they look;

3) They’re stuck in a child/adolescent phase and can’t grow out of it;

4) They feel threatened by men who “do” take care of how they look;

5) Or a combination of any of the four above.

To me, NOT dressing like a slob and taking the time to groom yourself and look decent is a sign of self-respect. At the same time, how others react to you often depends on the first impression you make on them, and looking like a slob not only indicates a disregard for personal hygiene but shows a total lack of respect to others because you don’t care how they feel about you.

You don’t have to “dress to the nines” or have money to present yourself decently. All you got to do is groom yourself and dress cleanly and neatly. Put some effort into the way you look.

But like @worriedguy said, if a lot of guys want to look like slobs, let them. They stand to lose in the mating game. Snark, snark.

….unless of course they have tons of money. Apparently women will date/mate them no matter how they look or behave.
As long as there is no prenup. ;-)

@funkdaddy All of those photos were taken in “casual” places. I’m not sure that counts.

@MRSHINYSHOES – I’m afraid we see things so differently that every word that goes into every statement either of us makes should probably be qualified. I can hardly recognize anything but flame from your last post, but it could be some kind of cultural or language thing or both.

Can we agree that fake psychobabble is a horseshit excuse for an answer to any question here on fluther – especially when the person spewing it has no fucking idea what he is talking about?

Just because my gaydar is going all ape-shit at your whole scene (which I’m not even sure is real, by the way), doesn’t mean I’m right. And it would be crap for me to claim that you are. Is it possible that there are people out there who don’t fit into your 5 options above? Let me walk through a couple of possibilities that you might have left out:

6) They do not feel that keeping up with the joneses is morally, environmentally, or spiritually defensible. They do not need to impress anyone, and they couldn’t give a fuck about what anyone in this superficial, consumerist culture thinks about their appearance. They are clean and comfortable.

7) They do not have the ability – financially – to keep up with the latest styles, so they may appear to be dressing like a slob. So, they work hard and put money towards things that really matter, like food and education for their kids. They may or may not give a shit what the pathetic, shallow sheep of the American public thinks about their appearance.

8) They have a style that fits in with their current social group. Within their circles, the way they dress is the appropriate way, and a man-child walking around with a scarf tie around his neck is ripe for ridicule and pity.

9) hmm..I don’t know, maybe you should ask someone who doesn’t dress as “nice” as you. Maybe you’ll learn something.

@tom_g A lot of guys do not want to dress well or take care how they look because they’re afraid that they will be accused of being effeminate or being gay. In the 1950s and early 1960s, men in general took a lot of care in how they looked in public, irrespective of how much money they had. It was a sign of self-respect and dignity.

It sounds like you are homophobic my friend. Don’t confuse dressing well with effeminacy. Sorry, but you are sorely inwardly frustrated, as I can tell from your angry words.

I made my point here. Yes, we can’t seem to see eye to eye on this. Lol. So long and have a good day. ;)

@MRSHINYSHOES – ....and again.

I’ll drop you a message.

I actually think these kind of guys are lame. You think you’re cool because you can do whatever the hey you want but it just shows you’re boring and don’t know how to impress girls.
On the other hand, some girls are stupid because they let the guy get away with whatever he wants because they think he’s cool, or think he’ll be upset if they say anything about it to him. And you’re right @worriedguy, some accept it because they think they can change them if they don’t like what they see.
Some girls don’t care what the guy looks like, as long as they’re looking good. Most overdress anyway because they want to look better.
Some girls might care but are too lame to speak up.
So If you see a girl with a guy like this, she’s probably just as lame as he is.
I would like to say I’m the type iof girl that would make te guy change into something decent and appropriate in a situation like this, but I’m actually they shy and self conscious type that would keep to myself and accept whatever, eventhough I’m being a hypocrite by saying this. Lol