What can anyone tell me about Acupuncture?

There’s Certified/Physician acupuncturists, and the certification doesn’t require much – it’s for physicians or chiropractors who’re looking to expand, and have home study, have little or no actual experience in acupuncture, don’t have to take a national exam, don’t have to complete continuing education courses, etc.
And then there’s Licensed acupuncturists (LAc), who have to complete a master’s level program at an accredited college, have hundreds of hours of acupuncture experience, pass a national certification exam, and take continuing education courses.

I had acupuncture. It didn’t help, it just felt like someone sticking tons of needles in me.

I got some pain relief and much better sleep from acupuncture. Depending on where you are, if there is a naturapathic school nearby, there may be well trained practitioners in your area.

Although it did nothing for my chronic lower back ache, I did enjoy the sensations and the uncontrollable urge to cry for the entire session. Very cleansing.

I don’t know what credentials they need but I do know my insurance has covered them in the past.

Acupuncture is the only relief I got after a car accident years ago. For several years I was given a ton of pain pills, muscle relaxers an nothing worked except to keep me high and sloppy. Acupuncture gave relief to where I started to be able to sleep comfortably, sit and ride in a car more comfortably. Since that time, I go in for a “tune up” a few times a year if needed.

It’s a bunch of crap. Studies have shown that you can get equivalent results by poking people randomly with toothpicks. Toothpicks are a lot cheaper than practitioners licensed in a bogus therapy.

And yet, @gorillapaws , people have been getting effective results for centuries. Go figure.

@JilltheTooth that’s what a placebo does. It actually does make you feel better, but it’s psychological. Did you read the study? The plural of anecdotes isn’t data, you need to compare the effectiveness of a treatment against the effectiveness of a fake one to determine if it works. The fact that it’s been used for centuries is a logical fallacy called an argument from antiquity. Bloodletting was also “getting effective results for centuries.”

Oh, pooh, @gorillapaws , I know what a placebo is, I also know that any study like that can be manipulated. I’m also curious as to how animals can be said to have a “placebo reaction” to various therapies that are called by some to be bogus.

How can you tell if the study has been manipulated without reading it first? If there are some questionable procedures implemented I’d be happy to discuss them with you, but shouldn’t you read it first?

I’m sorry, I don’t mean to minimize what you’re getting at, really, but my energy level is very low right now and this is an old argument. I will read the whole thing in the morning, I honestly didn’t mean to disrespect your post. For now, I’ll have to say Goodnight.

My ex-wife was an administrator at a school for acupuncture for a number of years. There is a national certifying board here that acts much like the AMA. I know that the students at the school studied full-time for 2 years and had extensive hands on experience with patients in the second year.

I was one of the patients, and I can tell you that it works. Acupuncture cured the flu for me and helped me with other maladies as well. It works.

It has been demonstrated to relieve some types of pain and is recognized by most insurance companies to do just that.

I would also like to mention that when I was using an acupuncturist, they were quick to point out when I should see my Western physician. They never forced any treatment on me.

I believe it works. I never had it done though. I’ve known several people to get relief from it when medications just didn’t do a thing. I think it works on the principle of it applying pressure on nerves that have a direct link to the areas of pain. I say this because I’ve been known to get a sharp twinge on one spot and lets say on my thigh and have a twinge happening on my side. I noticed if I applied pressure to help relieve the twinge that the second twinge will also fell the relief it brings. And if I did it vise versa than I would feel the same thing happen. Or I may scratch a spot on one area and feel a twinge in another spot.
Its like the time my hand first felt on fire and then it went numb for a few weeks. I felt the same pain in several parts in my arm. I told the doc that I had not injured my arm. He sent me to get an xray of my neck because he said the source of the pain was from a nerve leading from my neck.
Even after the pain was gone the next day, the numbness remained for a few weeks. I could move my fingers but I couldn’t feel anything. I think it pretty much works on the same principle. Kind of suppressing what the nerves feel.

I have never used accupuncture. but I have used accupressure successfully for years. Placebo? I don’t know, but if it works consistently with multiple people for years like it has for me, sure, bring it on! It’s sure cheaper than the expensive medical procedures I’ve had that didn’t work. I think you’re jealous, @gorillapaws

@snowberry if it turns out I’m wrong that’s fine; I really have no emotional investment in the success/failure of a particular treatment. I do however, follow the conclusions of well-designed, peer-reviewed studies. It’s troubling to me that when such studies demonstrate that a particular treatment is no more effective than a fake one, how that doesn’t generate self-reflection, but instead it makes people defensive.

If such a study were published that contradicts a strong personal belief I have, it held up to the challenges of the scientific community, and the scrutiny of experts, I would do a few things. First I would try to find legitimate weaknesses in the study. Absent any, I would tentatively accept the conclusion, and then I would analyze the logic behind how I erroneously came to believe something that wasn’t true in the first place. I would try to glean lessons from my analysis in the hopes that I would be less likely to make similar errors in the future. For me it’s about discovering the truth and not about being right/wrong.

If it works… I don’t care much what the scientific community says. I’ve had tons of stuff done to me that medical professionals have told me were “safe” and “proven” with all their scientific data they held up as proof, but brought me nothing in return, and/or cost me thousands, and/or have harmed my health. Eventually I got smart enough to learn to recognize what would happen if I allowed them to procede, and followed another course of action which led to a healthier outcome. Accupressure costs me nothing, doesn’t harm me, and in my experience works. Sorry about your data, but I’ve had this conversation before. It goes nowhere.

It has been proven to work, but not for the reasons they claim. They have debunked the chi and meridian business, but it works, regardless of where the needles are put in. They believe it may have something to do with the release of endorphins in a relaxed state.

I’ve had it done. I had weeks of treatment. I’m sure it helped a little bit. It got me away from my high pressure desk / computer job for 40 minutes every day and I layed down and was really relaxed. I was still getting horrible headaches until I met a physiotherapist who treated the problem instead of the symptoms.

This is what made me consider Acupuncture for my husband. He has back problems.
http://www.theatlantic.com/life/archive/2011/09/a-healthy-poke-demystifying-the-science-behind-acupuncture/245816/
My concern is finding someone who is legitimate.
Thank you @Hawaii_Jake

@snowberry “I’ve had tons of stuff done to me that medical professionals have told me were “safe” and “proven” with all their scientific data they held up as proof, but brought me nothing in return, and/or cost me thousands, and/or have harmed my health. ”

By medical professionals, are you referring to board-certified medical doctors? Not all studies are well-designed, well-implemented, honest, or repeatable by others, and sometimes even very reputable MD’s can be taken in by faulty research. Also, it’s important to note that not all treatments that are effective, are so for all people in every circumstance. Just because a treatment works significantly better than a fake treatment, doesn’t mean it’s 100% effective for everyone in every situation.

MD’s are trained to use treatments that have been proven to be safe and effective, while weighing other relevant factors. This doesn’t mean that they’re going to have 100% success rate, even if they are doing everything they know how to do to make you well. When you get a bacterial infection, doctors will prescribe antibiotics, but it’s possible your infected with a strain of bacteria that’s resistant to antibiotics. This doesn’t mean that the MD did the wrong thing by prescribing you the standard antibiotics first.

It’s also possible that your condition may have been psychogenic. This doesn’t mean you’re lying, or faking or that your symptoms aren’t “real”, but that the cause of your disorder originates in the mind. In such cases, most conventional therapies aimed at treating physical causes will be ineffective. It’s possible that the cause is something modern medicine hasn’t discovered yet, or that the medical professionals you visited weren’t very good at their jobs. There’s nothing wrong with getting second, third, forth opinions. There are legitimate controversies in the medical field that haven’t been studied enough for a firm conclusion to be reached. There are many reasonable explanations.

Of course they were board certified medical professionals. In each of 4 pregnancies, I was informed that I’d never give birth vaginally, and that there were no other options. So I opted for home birth, with a midwife. Everyone was born fine and healthy, no complications. One birth was a set of twins.

I had a dentist who came with high acclaim who told me I had 4 “small” cavities. He hollowed out 4 of my molars. According to subsequent dentists who looked at the x-rays, there was no reason to do that. I had never had a cavity before, and did not have one for over 20 years after that, until I started having to have those teeth repaired. Since then I have paid thousands on those teeth because of his selfish actions, and have experienced a great deal of trauma in the dentist’s chair.. Nobody told me I needed to get a second opinion to take care of a few “small” cavities. It’s buyer beware, unfortunately.

One time I got sick and ended up with an ear infection. I went to two doctors and received 3 kinds of antibiotics, but I did not get well. Eventually I got smart and went to a naturopath, who cleared me up rather quickly, considering how sick I was. I felt much better after the first visit.

I could keep going, but it’s all placebo or psychosomatic effect anyway, so why bother? (Sorry, but I’m just a little bit cynical).

@snowberry it sounds like that dentist you visited was a real scumbag who belongs in jail for violating his patients’ trust and damaging their health for profit. Have you considered that being victimized by him has damaged your ability to trust medical professionals, and to evaluate future doctors’ advice with a clear-headed rational mind?

As far as the pregnancies go, that is way out of the scope of my knowledge. I’m really not sure why they were so afraid of a vaginal delivery, but assuming they were honest and looking out for you and your babies’ health, they probably had a good reason for their recommendation. If multiple OB’s told my hypothetical wife that a vaginal delivery was too dangerous for her and her child, I would urge her to follow their advice because I wouldn’t want to gamble with their lives like that. I’m very happy to hear it worked out for you and your children.

Regarding the ear infection, it’s possible that the illness ran it’s course (many do clear up on their own), or that the antibiotics did work, but it took a while to clear up. It’s possible that the naturopath used a treatment with clinical effect. There are many reasonable explanations.

@gorillapaws Sorry, I wrote out a very long detailed answer, but something happened to it. I’ll have to respond later.

It’s a bunch of crap. It’s been shown to be a placebo. It’s like herbal teas which cure cancer, and powdered rhino horns that fix erectile dysfunction. “Eastern Medicine” is all the rage in our society. All you need to do is take some discredited foreign therapy, repackage it, and the gullible will pay through the nose for it.

@Soupy : Then why does it work on animals?

@JilltheTooth
I am sure there are many people doing Acupuncture that do not actually know how do to it correctly. The buyer must always be ware. I have heard that when done properly it works. The problem is there are No studies giving a clear answer that I know of. Some people say that American’s have too little training. How can you find an ethical person to do it?
After a car accident I received Electric Acupuncture to certain Pressure Points. It helped temporally.
I think the problem is we do not actually know if it works.

@JilltheTooth so far as I can tell, it does not work on animals at all. The studies I have analyzed found no difference between the control group and the group subject to acupuncture.

The occasional positive results from treatment on humans can easily be explained by the placebo effect.

@philosopher : I’m on the pro side here. There are some reputable places that train, John Bastyr College in Seattle, for one, University of Bridgeport in Connecticut for another.

@Soupy : Studies that you can’t find or not, I know vets that have used it effectively, and friends with horses have had some remarkable success. I’m old enough that I don’t feel that if I can’t find something on the internet it doesn’t exist.

@JilltheTooth unfortunately I find anecdotal evidence unsatisfactory. I don’t think that wanting evidence before believing something is a great failing. I’d have to take the word of the scientific community over the alleged word of vets I’ve never met. If I were to see the positive effects with my own eyes, and could see them repeated and maybe tested, I’d be convinced.

Well, @Soupy, since I’m not trying to convince you or in fact anyone, here of anything, I don’t see that that is a problem. I answered @philosopher‘s Q, the ball is out of my court. If you don’t want to use or endorse acupuncture, then…don’t. It’s that simple.

@JilltheTooth I just answered philosopher’s question too, with my non-endorsement of acupuncture. Not trying to convince anyone, just stating why I feel that it’s rubbish. Each to their own and all that.

@JilltheTooth @Soupy
I honestly do not know what to believe.
I wish I could find a Triple Blind study saying why Acupuncture works.
I always try to keep an open mine about life. I do not trust anyone or thing easily. I have heard both positive and negative views about Acupuncture. From several people I know and now yours.
I read the story I posted.