It's Columbus Day here in America. Why the heck do we celebrate it if Columbus wasn't the first one to discover America?
Also, does the mail run today? I hate it when pointless holidays delay my mail for a day.
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I always wondered this. And also if you think about it- the dude was LOST and just found us on accident!
He becomes a hero because of a screw-up. I kinda wish that would happen to me when I screw up!
No idea about the mail. I am hoping the Library is open because I returned a movie last night and forgot to put in the disc. (I wonder if I could be a hero for that one) ;)
@Dog I’m pretty sure Columbus didn’t even land on the United States mainland.
Horseshit, really. If I leave my front door unlocked, and someone stumbles into my house – did they just “discover” it? And are we to celebrate this?
@KateTheGreat See! That is what I mean!
In history has anyone ever accidentally gotten so lucky?
Yeah the mail doesn’t run today.
Wouldn’t matter, Kate, the banks are closed. Grr.
I thought the banks were open. Anyway I know that feel, @KateTheGreat.
I don’t think there’s anything worth celebrating. While I don’t think Columbus was an especially cruel person for his time, he and his expedition were certainly savages by any modern standard. They enslaved and mistreated the native peoples they “discovered” and claimed their resources for foreign lands. That’s just fucked up.
I do think Columbus was hugely important in world history. If nothing else, look at how agriculture changed after Columbus. Italians didn’t have tomatoes; Irish didn’t have potatoes. Chocolate, vanilla and coffee were unknown to Europeans. Horses and cows were unknown to native Americans.
I’ve always been interested in how differently things would have turned out if the Chinese had “discovered” America before Columbus and set up a similar world trade. They almost did; in the early 1400’s Chinese mariners had a much larger and more complex fleet of trading ships than anything in Europe and had already established trading routes as far away as Africa. It was only a quirk of the Ming Emperor, who unilaterally decided to cut back trade, that the Chinese didn’t make it as far as the Americas.
So that everyone has an excuse to watch Gremlins and The Goonies today.
Columbus discovered the Americas. He first landed on the island of Hispanola, which contains the Domican Republic and Haiti now, but still called Hispanola. You are thinking too narrowly, as in the United States of America rather than the American continent.
“In fourteen hundred ninety two, Columbus sailed the ocean blue” is a lot easier to remember than “Thorbrand Snorrason showed up about 1300.”
Using the names of his sons, “Snorri” and “Thorlief” doesn’t help things.
Vespucci Day has a nice ring to it. Yes I know he didn’t “discover” the americas either, but he did lend his first name to your little country. Besides, any excuse to eat loads of pizza & ice cream…..or maybe not.
My bank was open—just went through the drive-through not even remembering it was a made-up holiday. I guess that was my little discovery.
Yeah, it should be Viking Day instead.
If we’re going to celebrate the Vikings, why not the Asians who were the first humans to actually step foot on the Americas 15,000–30,000 years ago?
Actually, yeah. We owe them that, after setting foot in the Americas and massacring them, and then celebrating that on Turkey Holocaust…
@Symbeline I still don’t understand why Native Americans are so upset about Thanksgiving. I assume you feel the same by calling it a holocaust. We teach that the white Europeans were horrible to the Native Americans, it’s not like we try to say they arrived and everything was peaceful.
Because it doesn’t matter that he wasn’t the first one to discover it; his “discovery” opened the door to New World exploration. The Vikings may have discovered it first in the 10th century, but that didn’t lead to any more explorers or have any important lasting consequences; it was the Columbian discovery that did essentially “change the world”. Now, of course, as other have said, the Native American genocide that was to come isn’t much to celebrate and I do think of that when I think of New World exploration…
Columbus’s also killed, kidnapped and enslaved a fair number of native Americans. Columbus’ men forced native Americans to pan for gold and cut off their hands if they refused.
So I wouldn’t exactly characterize their mistreatment as “coming” ... Columbus sort of set the standard himself.
@JLeslie, Thanksgiving is my favorite holiday. I never interpreted it as a celebration of colonialism (which is the obvious interpretation of columbus day). The Thanksgiving story is about how these Europeans got in over their heads and the native Americans showed kindness to them. It’s a lovely story made even more poignant by the fact that those same Europeans eventually would turn on those same native Americans.
@Qingu Are you being serious or sarcastic?
About Thanksgiving? Serious!
Is it so shocking that I actually like a holiday? :)
@Qingu No, LOL, it isn’t shocking. I just was not sure what you meant by your last line. It seems we are actually agreeing about the holiday. Although, Passover is my favorite because of the food. Thanksgiving dinner isn’t very exciting to me.
@JLeslie The Holocaust part was a joke I was making about how we eat turkey on Thanksgiving.
Well, maybe I should explain it better. Obviously it was against the native Americans’ interest to help the Europeans, but they did it anyway and we honor them for that. Whether or not people actually take this into account when they celebrate T-giving, I dunno, but I think it actually makes it all the more honorable, that the holiday is based on a genuine act of altruism.
As far as food, the trick is to use Cook’s Illustrated recipes. Cranberry-molasses-glazed turkey is better than anything at Passover. (Plus I hate the story of Passover.)
Who cares, I have today off. But Columbus was a total douche waffle.
Because Americans secretly wish that your Thanksgiving was as early as Canada’s.
@Qingu I remember once talking to redpowerlady about Thanksgiving, and she was very bothered by the young children dressing up like Native Americans in plays, and some other parts of how we celebrate Thanksgiving. Seems we are offending some Native Americans. I explained to her growing up I always had very good thoughts about the kindness of Native Americans, their love for the land and nature. I had a hard time figuring out what was so upsetting. She continued that it bothered her the history was not taught accurately.
Sure, Howard Zinn did a decent job with his “People’s History of the United States”, but most of the garbage I was fed through school seemed to imply that good old Columbus saved the natives from their primitive ways. I didn’t even hear about Zinn until after high school.
I can see that… it’s not like native Americans have much to be thankful for.
Although as far as I can tell Thanksgiving isn’t all that legendary for a holiday. There reallly was a cooperative fall harvest gathering; the native Americans really did teach the whites farming and helped them avoid starvation.
Plus, it’s not like my ancestors were at or involved with people who came to Plymouth Rock (my ancestors came over during the late 1800’s). So I don’t really celebrate Thanksgiving as if “my” group of people is personally thankful for the treatment. I just think it’s one of the few bright spots in an otherwise uniformly terrible and depressing history of American colonialism. It’s also the only major holiday I can think of that’s about altruism and isn’t based on BS legends.
@Qingu I should add that redpowerlady likes to celebrate thanksgiving, and I remember her being on various Q’s about favorite foods for the holiday. I don’t want people to think she was all negative about the celebration.
@tom_g, how old are you? I think schools and reference materials have gotten a lot better at preventing that stuff in recent years…
Jeez gramps, get with the times!
@tom_g What state did you go to school in? I am 43 and that was not the message I got when I was very little. We loved the corn bread the teachers made, and were greatful to the Indians for teaching us new yummies to eat.
@JLeslie – Massachusetts. Supposedly it was a good school system.
@tom_g That surprises me. I find it interesting that was the case though.
For the Sausage and Peppers at the street festivals. And besides…
How strange would HAPPY Bjarni Herjolfsson Day! ...sound?
You KNOW some people wouldn’t say it right… Some people never do.
Well, Columbus told everyone. Made quite a difference, didn’t it?
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