Do you see the necessity in couples staying together for the sake of the children?

If the couple is really toxic, I feel divorce is better.

I think, if you no longer love somebody it is very rare that you can pretend you do for too long. If you can coexist together peacefully without loving each and you both want to do so then that is great. All the kids see is that both their parents live with them in a peaceful enviroment. However, I believe this is very rare. Most of the time, once you have stopped loving someone you cannot pretend for very long. Resentment creeps in and you would, naturally, want to move on with your life and maybe find another person to love. In this situation, even if you did stay together for the kids, as they got older they would notice the rift between their parents and this isn’t healthy for anyone.

I am glad my parents didn’t stay together for the sake of my brother and I. They are both much happier now.

@Blackberry I’m glad you feel that way… My kids preferred our family because the problems were repairable if the other party cared to try. He didn’t because another woman made it a good enough reason not to.

Now he is raising her kids… How convienient for her huh?

@Leanne1986 Relationships are about more than just “love” too much emphasis is placed on that as a viable excuse for the dissolution of an entire life simply because there wasn’t enough love… even and especially when it was always claimed there was. What about cultivating respect, decency, attempting to SOLVE problems instead of ignoring them and then blaming everything on the other person? How about creating an environment with intent and purpose that doesn’t break down the very fabric of this entire country?

ANything can be worked through, relationships are a choice, and when something else, some other living breathing entity is brought into a situation against their will, you have a certain obligation to that child to better their life.

If people have the presence of mind to leave a room so as not to argue in front of a child, how easy is it to maintain an amicable relationship for their health and sake and safety.

I still believe it is selfish want and self indulgent concern… Any problem can be fixed… Destroying the reality and saftey of a childs personal environment is unforgivable. Especially for a piece of ass.

@GabrielsLamb : I’m sorry you had to go through that, but your response to @Leanne1986 seems to be quite tainted by your own experience. She points out some very real concerns; resentment, thinly veiled anger, etc. My parents had a lousy marriage, not a lot of overt fighting per se, but the dislike was apparent, snideness crept in, it was pretty awful to be around. I wished growing up that they would divorce. They didn’t, and it had a horrible effect on us.

The worst period of my life is from just before my parents got divorced. I’d rather have been working in a sweatshop. It was a little rough right after the divorce, too, but not nearly as bad.

Painful recovery > downward spiral.

I think it depends on what you mean by the couple “staying together”. I don’t think it’s healthy for the couple or the children if the parents are going to pretend to still be in a romantic relationship with each other just because of the children. Children can pick up on things more than most adults seem to give them credit for. They will pick up on the coldness between the parents, they will pick up on any stress between them, and most importantly, that will be the relationship they will look to for what a “normal” relationship/marriage should be like. That’s horrible in my opinion. I wouldn’t want a relationship like that for myself or for my children and I certainly wouldn’t want them to think that a marriage/relationship should be like that.

Now, if the parents could agree to “stay together” as in live together (as roommates) and still raise their children together, that could be great. Unfortunately, I don’t think that is a possibility with most broken relationships so they end up needing to raise the children in separate locations.

Ideally, if the parents can’t work out their relationship (after trying) they will put their differences aside and focus all of their energy on their children. Unfortunately, that seems to be where the real problem lies because one or both of the parents don’t do that. Instead, the focus on other things/people.

I don’t think that it’s selfish for parents to separate because their relationship is unable to be recovered and sometimes that is really what’s best for everyone involved.

Diovorce is never easy, I divorced my ex when our daughter was 15 and it was rough for a few years, but, I am also proud that I showed my daughter that one should never comprimise themselves for a toxic relationship.
Funny now, she told me once that she wouldn’t have ever dated her dad. lolol

I don’t believe that all relationships are meant to last “forever” and that as parents, the best thing we can do for the greater good of all is to leave unhealthy relationships.

Self preservation is not selfish, and leading by example is whats important with kids.

My daughter has seen and gotten to know me as a person, and reclaiming my best self was the best gift I could give her. She is far more secure and confident at 23 than I was.

@JilltheTooth The point I was trying to make as a counter to her comment was the fact that yes, of course all of these things happen, but a committment to a marriage as well as to a child should be the main focus as human beings as well as to honor a contractual obligation to exercise that humanity through it to the best of one’s own ability.

I’m sorry to have disagreed with her, *it happens… but I felt that way before my marriage dissolved and I still feel this way now, my “experiencing” it, has absolutely nothing to do with it so please don’t make it out like I was in any way attacking her opinion. People disagree and in my mind that is perfectly acceptible.

I hope Leanne knows that most of the time, I actually do agree with her and meant her no ill.

I’d also add that THE reason anyone should leave a relationship is because you don’t like who YOU have become. I didn’t like myself nor recognize who I was anymore, I didn’t like who I had become and that was a huge catalyst, waking up and saying to myself ” this is NOT who you are!”

@GabrielsLamb You said “Any problem can be fixed” and unfortunately, that is just not true. In order to fix any problem, both parties involved in the problem have to be willing and able to come to a compromise and fix it. There are some instances where that just is not possible. The relationship of the parents isn’t really the issue here, the issue is how the parents are acting with their responsibility to their child after they are separated. Two very separate and different issues! I know some couples that split up after having a child and they have a better relationship now as co-parents than they did as a married couple. It would be nice if that could happen more often after parents split up.

@GabrielsLamb I beg to differ. I think love is very important. I agree that there are relationships that can survive without it but if you are with someone you don’t love then you may, naturally, start to wonder what else was available to you and when this happens you can start to feel resentful which, no matter how hard you try to prevent it, could cause an unhealthy atmosphere. A child doesn’t have to witness a full blown row to sense animosity.

I also don’t believe anything can be worked through. We can’t help how we feel and sometimes it doesn’t matter how much counselling you go through, if you don’t want to be with someone anymore there is no fighting that.

I think parents that decide to stay together under these circumstances can sometimes do more damage than good and I know I would have ended up resenting my parents had they stayed together because it got to a point where they couldn’t bring themselves to be in the same room as each other.

@Coloma But I bet no one will accuse you of being agreeable based on personal experience.

*Snark!

Do you feel that she might have been just as happy or well adjusted had you two managed to work things out between you for her sake? Have you discussed this with her? What did she say… I am interested in this from the childs perspective.

For all of the so called “bad” my ex claims there was, my children prefered us together. It’s strange to them to go there and see him living with a woman they dislike for the mere fact that she was the single reason their lives are disrupted.

Personally, they don’t remember there being so much wrong that they weren’t happy… That is HIS perception for HIMSELF as HIS excuses to leave me for someone else when and where it became convienient for HIM to do so…

Seems it was all about HIM. But then again he is really good at saying things like “I love you.” and “Forever” and “Soul mate.” on his terms at his convienience and never having meant them. I was merely blamed for knowing it wasn’t true and being rather unhappy about it.

Knowing he didn’t mean it, I would have never left him. Not ever!

Am I happier now as a person without him? Absolutely I am, but my children however are not.

It depends. A two-parent family is best for the child, but if the atmosphere in the home is angry and contentious, that is no good. The parents should only stay together for the child or children if they can be amicable.

@GabrielsLamb

At 15 she was angry about the divorce, at 20 she woke up to her dads stuff, saw him for who he really is, a dishonest, game playing narcissist, because, of course, sooner or later the leopard reveals it’s spots and she ended up having her own experiences with him that opened her eyes to his true nature.
Sooo, kids have to come to their own conclusions, you just have to let it unfold naturally, and it will.

@marinelife Again… My point is to find reasonable ways to SOLVE those issues. That is being glossed over as a very important factor in what I am saying.

@Coloma I am not attempting to be rude or assumptive in any way so please understand that it is for the sake of the question alone that I am ASKING this not assuming anything…

How much has your opinion of him influenced her opinion of him and or the ways she percieved his behavior?

I see the decision to raise children as a lifelong partnership whether or not the partners reside under the same roof.
There are perfectly amicable divorces that still give a child necessary security if the parents discuss and agree on things like rewards and discipline and never use the child’s affection as a weapon against the other parent.

I completely agree that rearing a child in an atmosphere of tension and false emotion negatively shapes what the child will look for in his/her own adult relationships.

@Leanne1986 Of course love is important… but that being said it also wanes to a certain extent realistically and naturally over time as two committed people become familiar with one another. The point is to cultivate other things to offset that very natural progression. Love remains, but it becomes about other things as opposed to sex or attraction or affections. Gradually as two people work themselves into any mutual situation it becomes more about compromise than anything else. THat’s just a fact that is contingent upon not much more than a personal ideal of what each individual feels consitittes what love is or isn’t

@GabrielsLamb Since you have shared your personal story here, I’m just curious, to what length would you have been willing to compromise to keep your children’s father with you in the house/marriage for your children’s sake? Would you have allowed him to sleep with other women if that meant your marriage/home stayed intact (if that was the only compromise he was willing to make), essentially agreeing to an open marriage? You don’t have to answer here, I’m just really curious since you feel so strongly about the family staying intact for the children’s sake.

Love does not always remain in relationships. People can and do stop loving each other over time for various reasons. Sometimes, that love can’t be rekindled, no matter how hard the couple tries.

@Blueroses No one is seeing what I am trying to say… The point is NOT to raise a child in a false atmosphere of respect and emotion but to WITH INTENT cultivate that as a choice. I mean people behave as though they have no control over certain things and then bash other people for their lack of control in other circumstances.

Are we not thinking feeling rational creatures that in this day and age for all of our psychology and intelligence we can’t make these situations work for a greater purpose?

@GabrielsLamb : Again, I think it’s a shame that your relationship didn’t work out, but maybe HE was that unhappy and you didn’t see it. Maybe the problems were not reparable. Nobody here is saying that divorce is a picnic for the children, but sometimes that kind of disruption is the best thing in the long run. I know many couples that do a much better job child-rearing apart than they ever did together.

Loveless marriages are never worth it. However, sometimes the ties that bind are financial. My parents stayed togther for the sake of raising us and in those days if the separation had happened and the money dried up for support, we would all have been SOL. In loveless marriages there is going to be scarring no matter what. Every situation is unique.

@GabrielsLamb As the child of a divorced couple (you said you wanted a childs point of view even though I am now an adult). I have no ill feeling at all about either of my parents or their divorce. When they were happy and in love our home life was wonderful but when the relationship started to turn sour and I could see that both wanted different things I was relieved when they finally admitted that they could no longer live together. I have a good relationship with both my parents and I am pleased to see that they are happy. Of course, the divorce was painful for a time but I think that seeing them force themselves to try and find an amicable way of being together would have caused a much longer, deep rooted pain.

Whilst I agree with you that love changes over time and this is not necessarilly a bad thing, there is also the chance that, as people change (and we all do) the relationship becomes stale. If you no longer love someone enough to be able to get the interest back (and I am not talking sexually here but interest in being with the person in general) then, I would imagine, living in a stale relationship, no matter how much you try to fake it, would become very depressing.

@Seaofclouds I wasn’t willing or not, to go to any lengths, for me it just was what it was and that’s the way it was! For me leaving wasn’t an option, I was committed to it. I asked for help, I recieved none, I asked for councelling, he never had the time, I asked for cooperation and concern, he didn’t have it to give.

He never tried, I became angry and there was absolutely no communication because although he was giving me mixed messages, saying love, he never once invested himself in trying to actually cultivate it in any other way but providing.

It didn’t matter to me how bad or good it was from time to time. There was plenty of good, plenty of value and lots of good things about it that now that he is gone, of course all of that never existed.

People in my opinion justify bad behaviors in all sorts of different ways. Avoidance and denial were never two of mine. I deal with everything with intent and purpose.

WHen and where I am allowed to do so.

@GabrielsLamb

Not much, he revealed himself to her over a few year period, and, he was great at portraying himself as the victim, so, she felt the need to support his false self image, for awhile.
I had to let go and allow her to have her own experience, and while she still loves her dad she also is very wide awake to his stuff. This has lent itself to some great talks about his narcissism and I am grateful I have been able to help her see that his behaviors towards her are not “personal”, just the nature of the selfish beast. lol

@Coloma THank you very much for sharing with us and for being honest. I appreciate you very much

@JilltheTooth Please read the question again. That is just so not the point here.

@GabrielsLamb I am willing to agree with you that a couple should at least try to get through their problems and I am sorry that your husband wasn’t willing to do that for you or your child. But sometimes with all the will in the world, if something’s missing, there is no getting it back and atmitting defeat is the healthiest option for all parties involved in the long run.

@Leanne1986 I used my personal experience as ONE example… But the point here really is that all people should at least try there absolute best before opting to go that drastic of routes FOR THE SAKE OF THE KIDS. Thanks for seeing that. I seriously wasn’t attacking your answer merely trying to get you to see things from another perspective.

I understand completely what you are saying.

Do you have children @Leanne1986

Oh, dear. No, @GabrielsLamb , I won’t read the Q again, I read it twice and my last post was based on your posts, not on the original Q. I’m probably not going to give you a blanket agreement, so there’s no point. Never mind, I’m out.

@GabrielsLamb That doesn’t exactly answer my question though. My main question is, if he was willing to stay if you would have an open marriage (so he could sleep around) for example, would you have agreed to that? I get that that wasn’t an option in your case because he refused to try, I’m just wondering how much you would have sacrificed to keep him in the house for your children. I really believe at some point there is a line that all of us have and that we won’t cross. I personally would never have agreed to such a situation just so that my husband would stay.

As far as opinions of children’s experiences, my parents divorce was the best thing that happened for my family and for my parents. There were miserable for as long as I can really remember as a couple. They tried to keep the fighting away from us and keep up a good front, but it was easy to see that it wasn’t real. There was so much tension even when they were trying to get along. My mom and I have talked at length about this and she constantly tells me she wishes they would have split up sooner and honestly, so do I.

@Seaofclouds I would have done anything yes. That is exactly why people have open marriages. and I believe I had even suggested that to him as an option once or twice. His response was to continue to avoid, lie, tell me he loved me, tell me how “nothing was wrong” which is obviously not the truth… which made me angry, which gave him his excuse… Of COURSE an open marriage wasn’t an option for him… His morality wouldn’t have ever allowed that. So he jacked me and my kids instead. Because that was a reasonable solution to him.

and when he was good and ready with no prep warning or planning, when he was ready to be with her, and persue her he left…

As Eddie Murphy said… Youst like that!

I don’t know if I can say for sure which is better, but I can tell you this: My Dad has been married and divorced twice. First with my mother, but I was only four when they got divorced and I remember nothing of it. It’s just like it has always been this way and it doesn’t bother me. But the second one, with my step mom, was bad for the kids. Because they saw all the fighting for most of their lives, but they always worked it out, you know? And then one day they didn’t anymore and now, just recently, they have divorced. My sister is almost 17 and my brother is 19. They remember all of it and it changed them.

@Scarikah WOuld you have been happier, even for the fighting if it wasn’t on a dangerous or abusive level * Because I believe that is inexcusible and should dissolve a relationship when people don’t get help… *An abuser statistically usually isn’t willing to do that. when it is physically abusive and there is danger and it can’t be stopped, then that is a reason to dissolve.

but would your life have been happier and better adjusted had you stayed together?

IMO 90% of what people call “love” is really dependency and addiction. Real “love” is genuinely wanting whats best for another, even if that means you have to let them go, or give yourself permission to go. The “old” ways of relationship in our society are very damaging and foster unhealthy, codependent situations.

Part of our growth is in untangling our faulty belief systems and being brutally honest with ourselves. Staying in relationships that have outlived their shelf life because of fear, obligation or dependency is an awful way to “live.”

Cheers @Coloma Exactly well said as always with just a tad more grace and dignity than I am ever able to successfully manage. LOL

WHat can I say, I am a bit of a brute at times.

@Coloma Indeed. I’ve heard people say they loved another person because they “needed” them. And because the person made them feel better about themselves.

I honestly can’t say. I have no clue, because that’s not what happened. They did tell me though that they never loved each other. That they only got married in the first place because my Mom was pregnant with my brother. Only thing they have ever agreed on. I know I’m not too bad off though. At least I’m not angry about it. Because I don’t remember..

There was a time when I felt very distant from my wife. I wanted a divorce. I was really unhappy. I didn’t feel we loved each other. I felt like I could get what I wanted elsewhere.

Everyone I talked to at this point told me that the kids come first. I believe it. I’m not sure how it happens, but I believe it. I don’t believe it is good for parents to be miserable with each other. I don’t see how you can parent well. But I think you can parent better if you are amicable.

That doesn’t mean being together. It does mean having good communication with your ex and caring for the children above all. A friend of mine suggested that a good model for this is to let the children have the house, so to speak, and each parent has a separate abode and they take week-long turns staying in the house with the kids. This way the kids don’t have to uproot themselves every week to move to a new house, and they get equal time with each parent. It takes a lot of good will to do this.

My wife and I went into therapy, and it has helped, but I don’t know what the future holds. I feel better about her, but I still don’t feel connected to her the way I did when we were first married. I feel like we are better as a family—with the traditional configuration. But I also don’t want to live without some of the things I want in life. I feel like I’m totally committed to working it through, but I can’t say we’ll be successful, and in the end, if it doesn’t get to where I want it to be, I don’t think I can remain married at the sacrifice of my own well-being. I’m just not that selfless.

I do like my wife. Even if we can’t rekindle the love; I do like her and no matter what happens, I hope we can maintain that feeling. However, I’m afraid that if it should come to separation, that won’t be possible. I hope we never have to find out.

This doesn’t happen – “create happiness by will”, you can’t force happiness.

NO. I am no fan of divorce but it’s much better to live separately then to have all them “fights” in front of the kids.

@GabrielsLamb: Your choice of wording in this question gives it a powerful bias towards agreement with your less-than-subtle opinion.

This is language with a slant: ”Isn’t it an example for the child” when two people can iron out their differences and show themselves* able to create happiness by will and a want to do so*, rather than to dissolve and destroy the attachments of lives that will negatively effect them regardless of what we tell ourselves to justify it.

Is it finding personal happiness that is important or is it ”selfish, self preservation and personal desires and needs” with a make-shift excuse?

Once you have children, ”shouldn’t your lives be about them”, making their lives better, making their opinions sound and their examples solid and secure?

How important is the happiness of the parents when and where children are concerned.”

No one benefits from a divorce; families that are loving, functioning, well-balanced and nurturing certainly produce happier children than families that break apart, even after the most energetic and judicious attempts to fix things.

If you simply started your questions with ”Is it an example for the child,” or ”should your lives be about them” (also vague and awkward) you are asking for unbiased information.

Aren’t I correct?

@GabrielsLamb the reality of my divorce is that if you asked my ex-husband about it, he would probably say many of the same things about me as you are saying about your ex. He would most likely accuse me of throwing our family away for my own selfish reasons and destroying his life and the lives of our children with my horrific behavior and refusal to work through the issues in our marriage. Unfortunately, these feelings come from his having completely rewritten the marital script immediately after I filed for divorce. Truth be told I begged him for years – and with even greater intensity after we had children together – to help me do something to save our marriage. I existed in a state of utter misery in my marriage, my children have always brought me joy for years and years while I begged my ex to see a counselor, to read a book about relationships, or even just talk to me about what was wrong and how we might be able to fix it. None of that happened. After banging my head against the wall for so long I was forced to face the truth that he was unwilling to help fix our marriage and the dysfunction was impacting my children as much as me.

Before, during, and even now after my divorce I have agonized about what it has done and is doing to our children. It was them that made me stay as long as I did, but when I heard my oldest son say – more than once – that he is glad we finally broke up because it made the fighting stop, I figured I was on the right track. Of course it would be awesome if couples could “iron out their differences” and provide a functional family for the sake of the kids, but reality isn’t always that easy. You seem to be simplifying the reasons for divorce, I can guarantee you, my life is about making my kids’ lives the best I possibly can, not about a selfish pursuit of my own bliss at whatever cost necessary.

Now I am happily married to a man who is nothing short of the love of my life. As much as I have agonized over the impact of my divorce on my children, I find great excitement as they get to witness a happy, healthy, loving relationship between two adults who are truly dedicated and respect one another. As far as I am concerned this is a gift to my children.

I know this isn’t part of your question, but I think you and your children will both benefit if you spend some time coming to terms with the end of your marriage. You sound very bitter and unhappy about the way things turned out, and of course you have every right to feel that way, but at this point you could probably benefit greatly from some personal healing.

@GabrielsLamb I don’t have children and my answers are based on my experiences as a child of divorced parents. I am happy with the decision my parents made.

After my divorce, my former husband (and the father of my two children) and I had a very amiable and cooperative relationship. For five years we lived several blocks from each other and shared many activities and events.

We also made joint decisions with very few moments of dissent. The kids used my apartment as their primary domicile but hung at out their dad’s whenever they wanted to.

They shared vacations and summers with us both and both sets of grandparents.

When I remarried and moved from NYC to Philly, he came down for all interesting events and slept in our guest room. We picked him up and dropped him off at the train station.

It was not ideal but far better for us all than to have lived in a festering atmosphere of bickering and escalating hostility.

We remained good buddies and had routine long telephone conversations until he died, a year ago.

There is now a large, modern greater family unit consisting of me, my daughter, her three step-brothers and their families, her half-brother (from my ex’s second marriage) and our friendship with her step-mother (the widow) and my second husband’s first wife.

Most of us will be at my sister’s for Thanksgiving this year.

I begged my mom to divorce my dad many times, starting at about age 7. I believe my sister and I would have been better off if she had done so.

Like always, I want to point out that no one knows what goes on between 2 people in a relationship. I refuse to judge others’ relationship issues.

Absolutely not! Better to have access to both parents as individuals than as a warring/destructive couple. Best example ever of being cruel to be kind.

The best examples we can set for our children is to NEVER sacrifice the best parts of ourselves at the alter of another. Ya know, the old ” an unexamined life is not worth living”.

There is no glory in being a martyr, martyrs get burned at the stake, bemoaning their fate all the way, not realizing that they have allowed themselves to be led to the slaughter, willingly, if not unconsciously. lol

@tinyfaery That is the second answer that is what I actually wanted to know… Thank You!
The first belonged to Coloma, and then Scaricka thank you each. ♥

*People seem to be stuck on the fact that they BELIEVE I wanted to be agreed with… Nope, that was never the point. I asked a question that got turned into a discussion about divorce and couples. What I meant was the emphasis is on the children. I realize discussions go in many directions during the life of an open thread so it’s not the big deal you believe I am making over it either… I’m not, I’m just saying…

*Internet remember… You gotta see through the words and read them emotionless because you do not know what I am feeling so you should never guess.

What I wanted to know was how the children are affected and what about their feelings the point was that it shouldn’t be about the parents as much at all. And it turned into a thread that was disagreeing with me for feeling like anything can and should be salvaged because other people can’t manage it. Which then turned into other people leading the thread into accusing me of being biased which I wasn’t.

The parents just really weren’t the point. Otherwise I would have asked “Should men and women divorce or attempt to make it work.” Without children, it’s just a matter of two people, and how they feel or don’t about one another and that is never a reason to stay if you’re life isn’t being fulfilled by that other person.

I don’t really even believe in marriage all that much, but if there are kids… That’s different, It’s not really about their happiness anymore and my point is that if everyone expects so much out of others in life, how come they don’t expect better out of those who do the same things that they either have done, or might do… As though by agreeing you need an excuse up your sleeve just in case to make it okay in the event that you opt to seperate without making it work.

The point actually IS to stop and consider the normal response out of the box and to many possibly see things from the height of a childs view. *I should have said that but the question edit timed out.

Agreeing or not doesn’t make anything a good idea or not. It just means that you agree or disagree. Give me a little more credit than to believe that everything works for everybody, I know that it doesn’t go that way and that isn’t the point to say anyone else is WRONG… But people who say divorce seem quick to say it without thinking about it much leaning it on reasons like love and happiness when that isn’t the point of the thread.

Those are reasons to divorce yes… But are they good enough reasons to compromise the entire life of a child? That is the point.

Coloma had a great point, being happy after a divorce is a great way to teach a child to be happy. But in her responses because she has a daughter again the emphasis was on her daughters happiness she provided her child that in perspective.

What happens when the divorce devistates the one left holding the child responsability? What happens if the children are her responsability nad his is merely financial, she bears the brunt of everything concerning them and he get’s to raise another woman’s children and they know that? How are the kids supposed to feel? In MY situation My kids are still unhappy, they preferred us as a family they dislike her and they dislike her children.

I wasn’t leading the question, I was trying to get an answer. Tiny Fairy, coloma and scaricka actually answered it.

But then again… Maybe I should have specifically asked people who have gone through it? Not a bunch of people that don’t even have children and some that are and haven’t been through it. But what you contribute is meaningful, I’m not saying that it isn’t, what I’m saying is that of COURSE I understand all of that, but it just wasn’t the point really that’s all.

But that seems to be the mindset and the reason why nothing ever works anymore like it had for our grand parents… People are too focused on self these days, and like to habitually blame other people for it.

No, mostly the parents just keep creating more and more tension for their kids who end up feeling trapped as well as slightly overlooked.

What I do think is selfish is when parents split up and move away to where their kids have to change schools and neighborhoods. This happened to my stepkids and they’ve had a lot of anger and depression issues spark up.

My grandparents (both sets) were miserable and behaved in ways that was not beneficial to their kids. However, they did stay married.

My paternal grandfather was regularly unfaithful to my grandmother and essentially had her cooking, cleaning and gardening for five sons and a nephew.

My maternal grandfather was unfaithful to my maternal grandmother and gambled away much of his paltry income. She was so miserable that she stopped speaking to all her in-laws and all but one of her own sibs.

@Coloma, @tinyfaery and @Scarikah gave you the answer you wanted. Was everyone else misreading you or wandering off course?

@GabrielsLamb after reading your clarification it sounds as though you are only interested in the opinions of children from divorced families. But just in case you are interested in hearing from divorced parents please allow me to say I always tried to keep my child’s point of view in mind when deciding whether it was time to end my marriage. As a matter of fact, my children’s points of view were really the only ones I did keep in mind.

Those are reasons to divorce yes… But are they good enough reasons to compromise the entire life of a child? That is the point.
In my case I would argue that staying with the father of my children would have compromised their lives to a much greater degree than my decision to leave him has. I know that might rub you the wrong way but from where I’m sitting it is the truth. You are flat out wrong to believe that no one who divorces considers their child’s happiness in that choice. @Coloma is by no means the only mother who emphasized her child’s happiness after ending her marriage.

What happens when the divorce devastates the one who is left behind? What happens is it then becomes incumbent upon the parents to do whatever they have to do to become healthy and happy with themselves and the best they can for their kids. You have no control over your ex, but you can work hard to become the very best @GabrielsLamb you can be to be the best parent you can possibly be for your children. Financially? Well there is no denying it is tough. I’ve been living hand to mouth for three years now trying to finish a college degree only to have my financial aid yanked one semester before the end. What can I say? It’s tough. But a person has to do what they have to do. Easy does not always equal right.

The reality is that studies show that even into adulthood a great number of children of divorce dream their parents will get back together. The reality is also that sometimes that is just not possible and we are forced to do the best we can with what we have. There are a lot of things that have happened in my life I would rather have avoided, but they were out of my control and I have grown with every single experience, no matter how painful.

I think I’m just not explaining myself correctly is all… Sorry guys. I’m not really feeling all that good today either so that is adding to it.

I meant no harm, I was just looking for an answer… But my bad I guess that is what the General section is for? *I almost never even go in there because it usually frustrates me that you can’t talk off topic…

*Now I realize what it’s for. LOL

Sorry Jelly peeps… I’m a dummy sometimes…

Carry on!

If you are a “dummy” @GabrielsLamb… you are the smartest one I personally have had the pleasure of meeting : ) <big hugs>

ps. lurve your new sweater @SuperMouse ; )

@GabrielsLamb there is no need to apologize or feel dumb. Sometimes the Collective takes questions places the OP might not have planned or could even have foreseen. In my experience the tons of I times I have been taken to school on these types of the things the best thing to do is roll with it. Big hugs and lots of vibes for a better day!

@EnchantingEla, thanks, it was created by Jeruba! See this thread for details!

nice play on words @SuperMouse… see the “thread” for deets on the “sweater ; )

No, I don’t think it’s selfish. In fact, pretending to be happily married is often more selfish. A lot of times, staying together “for the kids” can be a way for parents to avoid dealing with issues in their marriage.

Also, the arrangement doesn’t always benefit the children. Living in a contentious relationship drains the parents’ emotional energy, which means that they can’t be fully present for the children. They might become snappish and impatient with the kids. Alternately, other parents become co-dependent on their children, using the child as a replacement for the spouse who’s not meeting their emotional needs. In these instances, it would be better for the parents to divorce rather than to inflict their own unhappiness upon their children.

@lonelydragon Thanks for the great answer and I LOVE your avatar! One of my favorite movies!

And thanks you guys I appreciate the kind… I can be a jerk sometimes. ♥ LOL
Lurve to the Jelly fish!

@GabrielsLamb I also gave you an answer based of my experience with my parents divorce, but perhaps it got missed in the midst of everything else. Just in case you missed my perspective from my parents divorce, here it is again:

As far as opinions of children’s experiences, my parents divorce was the best thing that happened for my family and for my parents. There were miserable for as long as I can really remember as a couple. They tried to keep the fighting away from us and keep up a good front, but it was easy to see that it wasn’t real. There was so much tension even when they were trying to get along. My mom and I have talked at length about this and she constantly tells me she wishes they would have split up sooner and honestly, so do I.

I think it’s normal for children to go through stages when their parents get divorced though (especially if they didn’t see it coming). I have a cousin that practically went through the complete grieving process after her mom left (moved out of their house and into a house with a new guy that had gotten her pregnant (she was cheating on her husband)).

If a relationship really isn’t working, it isn’t working, regardless of how much you care about your children. I don’t think it’s wise to stay in an unhealthy relationship just because you want your kid to have two (unhappy) parents living together. Divorce doesn’t mean that the child can’t see/have a happy relationship with both of their parents.

Divorce is hard I’m sure. I lived through that as a kid, and it certainly sucked. However, I don’t think it’s being honest with your kid to stay with a spouse you don’t wanna be with anymore. That’s like lying to them about what love and unification is. I’d be okay with it if the parents agreed to stay together to be able to monetarily look out for their kid though, until they can figure something else out.

Well, we live and learn. I know I’m a racehorse, so I no longer choose donkeys nor expect Tortoises to transform into Hares.

As we grow wiser we realize that if one chooses to blend Lions and Zebras there’s gonna be carnage on the relationship savannah. lol

Of course couples should try to work through their problems, especially when children are involved. However, when irreconcilable differences arise, it’s often much better for the child of the parents separate. I know from experience. While having divorced parents is no picnic, it was much MUCH better than living with two parents who were constantly miserable.

Every situation is different. The answer is not the same for all couples. For these reasons I see no need to read any of these essay answers or your OP narrative.

@GabrielsLamb: It’s a huge leap from taking a position that is not clear to most of your readers (and perhaps not to yourself) and then calling yourself “dumb” and a “jerk.”

Here Eric Idle takes a useful stance; listen to the very last line, please.

As both a child of divorced parents, and a divorced parent myself, I can only say “no”. Both my parental family and my own are much better off after divorce than we were before.

My feeling is that unless there is abuse (emotional or physical) it is better to stay together for the sake of the children. Divorce is bad for children. And the adults who are looking for some magic somewhere else will only find out that wherever they go, there they are. They need to be grownups once they bring children into the relationship. However, if no children are involved, if people are unhappy I think divorce is just fine.

@skfinkel I understand where that feeling comes from, but I think it’s probably quite outdated. Lots of things are bad for children, not least of which is living with two very unhappy parents who fight all the time, you know? I’d much rather my children have a vision of what a happy, healthy relationship looks like, so they know what to aim for in their own lives.

That said, I think how a divorce is handled is quite important to the children’s well-being. Mine was very amicable, and my ex and I co-parent quite effectively. My kids, while sad at the time of our initial split, are much happier now than they were pre-divorce.

No question that there are some couples that can deal well with divorce, and those are people who understand how hard it is on children, and do what they can to make it better: not fight, easy access between houses, no hard feelings. Again, mature people. It might be an outdated idea, but data show that divorce is hard on children, and harder than we want to admit. Also, I would suggest, unless it is the most glorious, supportive, and friendly divorce, divorce is most likely not the bed of roses either partner thought it might be. And most divorces are not happy go lucky, but bitter experiences that are caustic for all involved (except for divorce lawyers, who profit handsomely from the confusion and vulnerability of one or both members of the relationship). Sometimes, you have to get out. But struggling to work it out, if possible, is, in my opinion, better for all involved.

I do agree that divorce shouldn’t be the first, or even the fifth choice. Trying to work it out is indeed better. It took us about 4 years of working on it in many different ways (after initially realizing we were in bad shape), and two bouts of marriage counseling, before we called it quits.

Divorce can be a “bitter, experience that is caustic for all involved” but so can staying in an unhappy marriage for years.