Why does "txtspeak" bother you?

I’m fine with it in incidences where people are actually typing on tiny cell phone number pads, and ‘lol’ and ‘brb’ can be helpful in many instances. (Usually when talking to someone who is so funny that you keep laughing and don’t want to come across as a hyena… and then you have to go pee from giggling so much.)

My beef lies with the people who use it when they could easily just type the word ‘too’, or ‘to’, or ‘you’. No wonder i’m a vegetarian.

I think people have a problem with it because in the “real world” of business, law, medicine, etc., that kind of language just doesn’t work. So, “kids” using this language consistently get into bad habits of communication. Furthermore, I find that it speaks to a certain amount of intellectual laziness.

For me it’s along the same lines as Delirium. It’s fine for the odd quick message, but for something like a full email or Fluther, I find it so frustrating because if the person writing it can’t take the time to type out the word in full, I don’t feel they’re giving it much thought or attention, so why should I? Yet they often expect responses (they are often disappointed).
Also, for me, regularly typing in 3 languages, I make sure to type and speak them correctly, which is confusing enough. Taking shortcuts like txtspk makes it impossible to be even halfway well-spoken in any language, even less 3.

It probably bothers some because it takes them longer to read it than normal print. Fluther is not the “real world” of buisiness, law, medicine, etc. so other than the argument that the creators of the site added the rule saying no to txtspeak it shouldn’t be a big issue. If someone were to give a really good, informative answer to a question in txtspeak would that still be giving it less thought than if they typed it out normally? I’ll admit though that two of the people from the earlier thread on this subject seemed to be doing it just to get a rise out of everyone.

@ Delerium (and I rarely do this): LOL.
It took me a minute to figure out what the hell you were talking about, but then when I did I legitimately laughed out loud.

A lot of conventions regarding language in the “real world” have changed over time. Why should this one be any different?

Also I find it hard to call someone “lazy” for electing to type one or two fewer keystrokes (although you could go the opposite way and say they are the laziest of the lazy for not typing an extra one or two keystrokes—I guess that’s a matter of perspective). And why is this particular form of laziness associated with low intelligence? I am incredibly lazy about things like cleaning and paying my bills but people tend not to make judgments about my intelligence based on those things.

So why the txtspeak/low-intelligence connection? Is it just that the two groups tend to overlap?

Would be interesting for a seasoned txtspeaker to weigh in with a well-thought out (even if not well-typed out) argument.

It only frustrates me when I can’t figure out what they’re saying!

@Niki. Just to clarify, I didn’t say unintelligent or stupid, I said “intellectually lazy.” One reason to avoid textspeak here is that if this arena is to persist and survive, people will have to be able to look back, read and understand the comments. Textspeak to me seems like an insidious fad that will eventually be replaced by something else.

I just read this this morning.

@DeezerQueue: 1 reason why that article is dumb

many people use fluther from their iPhone, so it should be accepted here. The one thing that drives me mad is when someone corrects someone for typing in all caps..so frigging what… Its not yelling if you can’t hear it, and it’s so 1990’s dopey AOL. HOW DOES THIS BOTHER ANYONE.

@nikipedia: I find it amusing that the following immediately precedes the materials.

“This article or section needs copy editing for grammar, style, cohesion, tone or spelling.”

@ezraglenn: I’m happy that it made someone laugh! I wasn’t sure if I was being too vague or not.

Just like everything else there is a time and a place for it. If your on a cell phone or aim go right ahead and use it. But I think something like fluther that prides itself on being informed and educational should at least be mature enough to type out a god damn word. sorry but im not listening to the guy who is like “ZOMG 1st u hav 2 put teh…...”

Why should I spend the time to formulate a cogent and intelligent response if the person asking the question won’t even take the extra effort of a few letters?

I don’t even use txtspk when typing text messages, as I can type fast and remain clear. Plus, the extra time I take to make it easy to read is a sign of respect for the person I’m texting.

But it doesn’t suggest that the writer isn’t intelligent, it suggests that they are sloppy and disrespectful. There are appropriate venues for txtspk, but this site isn’t one of them.

bc s lz n nclear

http://www.fluther.com/disc/13266/why-cant-you-txtspeak-on-fluther/

@soundedfury: In my fantasy world, as long as you got your point across, that would be enough. Why do shortcuts in typing imply that someone is sloppy and disrespectful? Do you feel the same way about other rules of spelling and grammar?

@Zaku- beak is laws in nuclear?

@niki – It depends on the context, of course. But it’s also important to realize that the way you choose to express yourself also carries over to how you portray yourself. I simply don’t trust that someone asking a question, but using shortcuts like txtspk, may be able to appreciate the nuances of an answer. In that case, I may hold back when answering or ignore it all together. Again, it’s not that I think they’re dumb. They just don’t seem very invested in the question in the first place.

So, when I say sloppy, I mean slopping in appearance (as our words are our appearance online), and disrespectful in that they are asking for my time and effort without showing the same courtesy.

For other rules of spelling and grammar, yes, I do feel the same within reason. I certainly don’t expect everyone to be 100% perfect in spelling, nor do I expect them to know obscure grammatical rules. But I do desire the same level of basic grammar that would be expected in conversation. I’ll let homonyms go when typed (although I cringe), but outright misspellings are problematic – especially since most browsers have built-in spellcheck these days.

I think its akin to going to a the mall, or a movie, or an elegant party, or the opera in sweatpants and an old ratty tee. Its just not classy.

OR You could worry more about answering the question than the manner in which it was asked.

I guess the idea of “classy” sort of strikes me as a bourgeois way to get all judgey and look down on people over things that don’t matter. Like how they speak or the clothes they wear. Y’know?

Class isn’t really a money thing. Class is more a…. way of dividing the population.

For example: Person A doesn’t like reading books in their spare time. Actually doesn’t have a single bookshelf in the house. Thinks art is dumb. Thinks that a woman is worth talking to if she has her ass hanging out of her shorts. Thinks its attractive to wear oversized shirts and to be holding their pants up at all times. Thinks recycling is uncool. Drives a orange hummer. Makes 300,000 dollars a year.

Person B adores literature and can talk proficiently about it. Uses their library card so much that they have the number memorized. Thinks that going to an art museum is the perfect date. Thinks that a woman is worth talking to if she is eloquent, coherent, intelligent. Thinks its attractive to wear jeans and basic tees which both fit perfectly. Recycles whenever they can. Rides a bicycle. Makes 19,000 dollars a year.

Which person is more classy?

@D- depends who you ask, everyone has their own definition of class.

Damn those ambiguous words! ;)

Right. I don’t have an issue with the money part. I know lots of nice rich people and shitty poor people and vice versa.

I take issue with the judgey part. You are very astute to point out that “class” is ambiguous, which makes it a basically meaningless and really convenient catch-all insult. You can call anyone “low class” based on that person having different taste or values from your own. Seems really closed-minded….and low-class. :)

In my opinion, there are two classes: with txtspk, and without. The latter is above the prior.

Question for you Niki. Do you use textspeak in your reports at work? If not, why not? And what do you think would happen if you did?

I don’t use it at work—or in general—because of the prevailing stereotype discussed above that people who use it are lazy (intellectually or otherwise) and/or unintelligent.

I am trying to respectfully disagree with that stereotype and to suggest that for better or worse internet slang is making its way into our zeitgeist. To build off your example of this being of questionable propriety at work, some of my colleagues (including MDs and PhDs) send me emails with smiley faces or “LOL“s.

Smileys and things like “LOL” that have entered the broader lexicon are perfectly acceptable in an informal setting. But they are still a far cry away from txtspk, and are certainly not formal.

I use smilies daily in my work correspondence, but I work for a start-up and we actively foster that kind of informal feeling.

@soundedfury: This is what I’m getting at:

”...that have entered the broader lexicon are perfectly acceptable in an informal setting”

It seems inevitable to me that other internet abbreviations will enter the broader lexicon as well and become increasingly accepted. I don’t really have a problem with this and still am not convinced there’s a good reason to have one.

Yes, language is a continually evolving beast. Language evolves at every level of organization:

- From generation to generation [over time]
– From region to region [over space]
– From work/school to home [based on audience]
– From interest to interest [between common hobbies, etc].

That language morphs is a basic understanding of language.

But society has a way of doing things – so that progression continually happens without hiccups – and that requires common language for the exchange of ideas. This is why “good” English, or “good” French, or “good” Spanish is required at work and school, and preferred elsewhere. It is commonly accepted and everyone knows what the next guy is saying.

When you introduce txtspeak, which is a viable dialect all of its own [because it qualifies as communication] – there are clashes. Txtspeak is still a recreational dialect and should not spill over into work/school applications.

Users of txtspeak who utilize it in every facet of their communication with others are considered:

- lazy, because if you are “bi-lingual” you must know when to use what language and when.
– dumb, because they have not wisely chosen context for their language.
– ignorant, because they refuse to utilize the standard language for communication in work/school.

In my opinion, no more than 30% of txtspeak will be accepted and rolled into the language standard because it does not increase productivity of ideas. Let me further clarify – while it does increase the rate at which ideas are expressed, it does not increase the productivity or clarity of ideas. Language is based entirely on conveying ideas. If it does not excel at this, it will not survive.

ergo, ego.

omgwtfbbqsquirbels back :D

@ezraglenn – c it s np 2 nderstand txtspk n who crs nywy?

lol squirbel ftw

(That was supposed to be ironic.)

I can just see it now. First we had to “press 1 for english” What’s next? press *1 for fully written out sentences?

i also think theres a big difference between lol, wtf ,smilies ^_^ and full on txt spk. u cnt srlsy xpect 2 b taken srlsy if u type lik this. Like you said though niki language is evolving and new words are becoming accepted like lol and wtf or like you just said ftw but why would u be accepted when we already have you?

But still i wont use my examples in anything formal.

Always send smileys though. Bitches love smileys. ^_^

Ok, no one has yet talked me out of my new smartass habit of out-txtspeaking txtspeakers.

It’s interesting to me that lol, omgwtfbbq and ftw aren’t txtspk, they are leetspeak. They are very different, imo. Txtspk is a way of spelling that evolved out of text messaging, where speed and efficiency of expression are prized. Leetspeak is more of an internet thing, where the use obfuscates in jokes as a way of showing who is part of the group. There is some crossover – mostly in the realm of “lol” which evolved in chat rooms before being used in SMS – but they tend to be more independent.

[edit]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leet
vs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_language

soundedfury lol and ftw aren’t leetspeak its just slang from the intwebs often coming from gamers.7|-| 15 15 |v|0|23 1||<3 1337 5|*34|< which originated from a group of people in the 1980’s on a internet forum where you needed “elite” status to access certin files which were often pirated software and they didnt want their messages being read by outsiders. ^_^

I was the sysop of a few BBBes in the 80s and remember the first trickling of use, but I was referring to leetspeak as it has evolved to the present day, and not it’s origin. Despite the fact that you no longer need to be 1337 to know leetspeak, the current internet dialect is, linguistically, an evolution of the same dialect that I saw on my BBS.

@soundedfury: You are correct that leetspeek and txtspeak are two different things; but I am a gamer and leetspeak is my recreational language of choice.

In no way did I or others seek to imply that they were the same :)

2. [Trade] WTS [Sense of Humor] <—phat epix
1. [General – Ironforge] OMGWTFBBQ post that legendary again!

leetspeak as in gamerspeak….those are almost interchangeable these days :)

Wow I don’t understand a bunch of the stuff here. Is there a dictionary/interpreter program to convert this stuff to English.

I actually refuse to read txtspeak. I have this filter inbetween the part of my brain that sees and the part that interprets.

In the same way our memories attach to what we deem important and throw away unimportant pieces of info, I filter txtspeak.

:)

@squirbel – There are a few references above that conflate the two.

Also:

[2. Trade]: OMG [Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker] [Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker] [Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker]
Soundedfury has gone offline.

:D So true!! :D

It only bothers me when it is used out of laziness as opposed to pointedly answering a question or updating someone. It has it’s place (text messages, away messages, twitter) but e-mail is not one of them. Nor is a normal blog or forum post.

I suppose it also bothers me because it is not standardized (not that any slang truly is).

“leetspeak” is just stupid. It doesn’t aim to shorten a response, only to make it more difficult to read.

I suppose the largest reason that txtspk bothers me is that I see a lot of shortcuts being made in the name of technology and convenience. To me, there is sometimes nothing more satisfying than reading an article or a book that’s well thought out and written, one that uses words to express and draw in the imagination of the reader. That’s what words do. While I understand that using a conventional mobile telephone like mine that demands pressing a key three times to get to a letter might provide impetus for some to use txtspk, I simply cannot bring myself to do it. I have far too much respect for a language that has taken so long to evolve, as can be said for all languages. Txtspk in fact is nothing new; speedwriting was a handy substitute for those who didn’t know shorthand.

Personally, I think that any public usage of txtspk is inappropriate. It conveys a message to its audience that they’re not worth the extra keystrokes.

I think, in general, it just happens to be pretty highly correlated with lower intelligence. People of high intelligence can generally type faster than those of low intelligence because of the way the connections of their thoughts work. Also, people of higher intelligence are more likely to use diverse vocabulary that cannot be easily expressed with txtspeak.

@girlofscience: I can txtspk loqntly.

The exception that proves the rule. ;-)

@nikipedia: lol, where are you online?

Well, it bothers me because, using it in everyday conversation is dumb, and can make you seem like you are stupid when your not. Chatspeak should only be used in Texting, IM’ing and E-mails.