What do you think about Fluther creating a standard about writing from the 3rd persons view?
Might be too radical. I think it would lessen the offense of how some answers are worded. For instance writing in the third person would eliminate examples that say, “Everyone knows that monkeys eat bananas. You wouldn’t want to eat a banana and act like a monkey.” The “You” would make the reader think it is possibly personal at that point.
I know there is about to be a lot of junk talk because I’m a newbie and I haven’t been here for a while. I’m not parading my flag around, just curious to what you might think about this, in black and white.
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Would never happen, sorry.
I think most people get that that ‘you’ isn’t them.
I find myself using you when I probably should use one, a person, people, etc. Sometimes, I catch myself, and instead of rewriting everything, I write in a “not you personally, you in the third person.” I don’t think fluther would ever get on board with your idea. Even if it were a rule, I think so many people wouldn’t follow it.
@JLeslie Yes, I mean, this is an adult site after all. It would be awesome to practice above high school level writing standards. ::From Privacy & Policy:: “This site is intended for adults…” I know sometimes its hard to get away from “You,” especially in the Social Section because sometimes “You” is aimed politely, for instance, “You are so hilarious @blablabla, you gotta know when to fix your life up too though” Maybe in the General Section only would the rule work out.
@whitetigress I don’t consider using you to be poor writing standards. You in the third person is perfectly acceptable, but it can lead to misunderstandings. We usually straighten out the misunderstanding when there is one.
@FutureMemory Yeah, thats one way to think of it. @jleslie agreeable.
Flutherites are a wild and lawless lot.
High school level English is just fine. This isn’t English 202 college level coursework, it’s fluther. As long as a person communicates clearly with decent English standards I’m good.
“You” is always used in the second person. “You in the third person” makes no sense, to me.
Personally, I’d like to ban “awesome,” but I doubt that that is going to happen either.
One is getting so tired of these questions… is Fluther really broken? Why are people trying to fix it?
@whitetigress my reply isn’t particularly directed at you, it’s just yours is the question that has finally made me respond. I appreciate you are thinking of ways to try to make things better and it’s great that you love the site that much to do so. :)
That’s a bit much, don’t you think?
Mod perspective: Oh pleeeease no.
@gailcalled Amazing answer! ;) “Amazing” is the new “Awesome”
@gailcalled You is certainly used in the third person. Southerners use y’all. Jersey sometimes uses yous guys. :).
I still have to take issue with that concept.
I would read “You guys are awesome” as an answer in the second person.
“Them guys are awesome” would be the third-person version.
“What do you guys think of this answer” is also in the second person.
@harple Thank you I understand your statement. I’m that guy in America who questions everything and likes to bring things to the table, it’s just how I was raised. If the majority like it then thats fine, if the majority are against an idea thats fine too as long as it was brought to the table and out of my mind then it wont haunt me anymore.
This thread has stayed remarkably civil considering the subject matter :)
I hate the idea. I am writing an answer so I want it to be read in the first person. I think there are other ways to not cause offense rather than writing in the third person.
He doesn’t think it’d fly. And when I say He, I mean me.
When I say you – I mean you.
@gailcalled Actually y’all and yous guys might be second person plural come to think of it?
But “you” can be used in place of everyone, anybody, one, a person, people, then it is third person. Isn’t it? You, she, he, it; third person singular. Or, can be third person plural also.
I think I’m generally a nice person. I try not to go out of my way to be an asshole, and I usually try to be at least somewhat friendly. I also think of myself as a bit sensitive, my feelings are probably hurt more easily than many people. I also think I don’t want to feel like I have to walk on eggshells every time I log on because I might offend someone/hurt someone’s feelings/step on toes, whatever. Maybe it is my imagination, but I feel like at some point things are going to get so PC that everyone will be afraid to speak at all.
“You” in any form is always second person. That’s the definition.
Third-person plural can only be “they.” There is no plural of “it.”
These are examples of a plural second-person sentence: Source
Class, you need to be in your seats when the principal arrives. Tom and Jerry, I’m speaking to you as well. By the way, are these comic books yours? (Regionally speaking, in the American South you might hear a teacher say, “Class, y’all need to be in your seats….” “Y’all” is a contraction of “you all.”)
And one can always use “one” as the subject of one’s sentences.
“In the U.S., ‘one’ is often replaced by ‘you.’”
Gail is right of course. And you don’t “write from the 3rd person’s view” you speak in the third person. Like when a certain jelly who shall go nameless writes her nickname, instead of simply “I.”
I could never be accused of this. Zen out.
@gailcalled If there is no third person you, no wonder people take you personally all of the time. I use you constantly when meaning a person or people.
You’d do better, @JLeslie – and I mean you – if you would say “one.”
@JLeslie: I am not the inventor; I am only the reporter.
”...no wonder people take you personally all of the time.”
You talkin’ to me?
@zensky I do write one, but I frequently write you, because that is how I talk. I’m not saying it is correct. I acknowledge in my first answer that I know it can cause misunderstandings. I always thought it was the third person you, but I am not a language expert. Maybe I am thinking you formal in Spanish, but I don’t think I am.
@gailcalled Yes. You. It’s always you. Your fault. You – you you – you.
You were thinking like “vous” in French.
@zensky I know very little French, but it would be “usted” in Spanish.
Yes, Usted – I knew that. Usted is Vous.
So, is the example the OP gave incorrect?
It’s still incorrect, for all the above reasons.
I still think the OP meant “One.”
Gosh- but you guys really are awesome
I did not know my favorite word was annoying. Dated, yes. Annoying is not good. So I will come up with a new word!
I need time to think
tinyfaery doesn’t like it.
Dog… This changes everything. I thought your favorite word was wine..
So, if I understand it correct, we need a new word for one for use of writing in the third person?
Three.
Wait, so the OP is wrong and he is being critical of other people’s language skills? Sucks when that happens.
The uses of “you” and the intimate “thou” in English correspond to the similar forms in the Romance language. They are still all second-person.
Tu me comprends?
On peux employer “on” en français de même.
“Ici on parle français”. To whom is that addressed?
Oh c’mon, you people! Get a grip or go read some grammar.
@gailcalled Except that the French “on” really stands for first person “we”, not second person “you”. :P
Also, I have it on good authority that “y’all” is second person singular. The second person plural form is, of course, “all y’all”.
Most people know the “you” isn’t directed at them.
I’d rather not…it’d make Fluthering feel like essay writing. And I do far too much of that anyways.
Y’all is singular you in the South. All Ya’ll is plural you. Don’t we love the South?
Actually, I think this is a great contribution to the English language, if not the greatest ever provided by the South.
@dappled_leaves French “on” is used both as third person singular (the equivalent of English “one”) and as first person plural (though “nous” is more proper).
ucme doesn’t think that move is required at this point in time, but he credits you with a decent enough proposal.
@ucme: So, are we amused or not?
@thorninmud It conjugates as the third person singular, but in meaning, it represents the first person plural…
[is running away now, holding his throbbing head in his hands, wishing that somehow he had not ended up in grammar hell. “Why can’t we all get along,” he wonders.]
I see “Ici on parle français” as having a subtle difference from “Ici nous parlons français.”
@gailcalled Agreed, there is a nuance – but it is much, much closer in meaning to “Ici nous parlons français” than to either “Ici tu parles français” or Ici il parle français”.
“Why can’t we all get along,” he wonders.
@wundayatta I can’t speak for anyone else here, but this is enjoyable for me. :)
In the sentence “On m’a volé la voiture!” (“Someone stole my car!”), “on” definitely doesn’t mean “we”.
@gailcalled One is beside himself with glee, positively peeing one’s pantaloons.
How about the personless “Here French is spoken”?
And I never suggested that “on” meant “you” or “he.”
@thorninmud That is tricky… because in this case, it’s more a passive form. You are not really describing the person who stole the car, but the act of theft.
I will soon be out of my depth in this conversation, because I am no grammarian, but have been speaking and living in French for most of my life. I will undoubtedly be unable to come up with the proper terms to suit the academics among us.
Well it is referring to the person who stole the car, but since I don’t know anything about the thief, I can only speak about the him/her in the most general possible way. That’s what “on” is for: it has no gender or other specific identifiers, so it could fit anyone. But it is still third person in this usage.
~Apparently our spelling rules are hard enough for people to grasp as is. I vote for no more complications.
On another note, I cannot yet find a replacement for “awesome.”
I have decided that, for now, with my mom as ill as she is, I am trying to over-compensate here for what is lacking at home. I returned as a mod because it feels good to help people. (It also feels good to ban spammers) But as my mom has been deteriorating I think I am trying to somehow help too much in here, because there is really not much I can do for her, which is very painful. I truly want everyone to be happy in this collective. I want us here at Fluther to live in harmony and have intelligent, respectful discourse.
Obviously this is flawed thinking. Human nature alone seems to prevent such things. I realize now that I am just over-sensitive, and as such I am taking a break for a bit. I will be back. I am not banning my account or anything dramatic, but I am taking some time out to meditate or go somewhere without conflict till I gain more inner peace. <3
I am sorry to hear that, @Dog. I wish you and your mom well, and will miss your voice here!
@Dog – I love you. Do what you need to do for you and I hope my comments on anything didn’t add to your agita.
@Dog Sorry to hear about you mother. :(
A replacement for awesome is fabulous. Said faaabulous. Try it, you’ll like it.
@wundayatta I once asked a question about that very thing. What the south has given to us, I worded it as what issues the south has led on. it was kind of interesting if I remember, and your comment made me think of it, I thought you might be interested even though I know you were just being funny.
Just wanted to clarify that nobody in particular agitated me. It is just where I am at mentally through no fault of anyone. I am not sure how the above might be taken so I needed to be sure everyone knows it is no big deal.
Choc thinks this thread is awesome but the idea proposed is quite unnecessary. Enough jellies are already confused when it comes to proper grammar, and in Choc’s opinion, more restrictions would only serve to make one more confused. Choc thinks one should leave well enough alone.
People with multiple personalities might enjoy this “third person” business. And they’d love it even more if there was a 4th person and 5th person etc.
But most Fluther members would think that it would make the conversations sound snooty, pretentious, and un-personal.
Y’all can’t be serious!
I think the writing standards are fine as they are.
filmfann thinks that can get confusing.
@filmfann The only person who should speak in the third person is the Cookie Monster.
I don’t think first, second or third persons are the problem here and suggest we leave the writing rules as they are. I believe, and you may or may not agree, that the problem would be solved by establishing a new rule, and I quote again from Stuart Little, “Absolutely no being mean!” Them as don’t agree may be beheaded or at least scolded to a point of discomfiture.
Could we possibly hear from the OP – hey @whitetigress – what do you think of what we’ve written?
One would be running around like a chicken with its head cut off if such a rule were in place.
<<This one.
What difference does it make to you or me? They do all the bad things, not us.
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