Suggestions for talking about mutual cheating?

Why the need to be secretive when you already agreed upon being open to other people? IMO, you’re pretty much already roommates with benefits.

Although you entered into the relationship with permission to play around, it was with the proviso that you tell her about it afterwards. You did this the first time and all was well.

But you have broken trust by not sticking to your rules for the next 5 times. Every relationship is based on trust, whatever individual rules you create between you.

What do you actually want from this relationship? You are quite derogatory about her when you say: “If I were to make any complaints it would be that I have had to compromise my social life and my intellect…” and you make a couple of further statements that suggest that you don’t really rate this person as a valued partner. If this is the case, I would ask what you are actually doing staying with her? If you do not get what you need from her, and it is likely that the reverse is true, then you are preventing her from finding someone who can appreciate her just as she is, and of course, the same goes for you.

I appreciate your openness in asking this question and in providing such full and frank details. I genuinely think that both of you could be happier in different relationships (or, heck, even single).

So, how do I suggest you handle this? I suggest you have a night in together, with some simple food, a bottle of wine, and have a frank and honest discussion with her. Open up to her the way you have above, but be prepared for pain, hurt and upset, and be grateful if you’re lucky enough to avoid those, for it will mean that she is in the same place as you.

Then give yourself a break…

How about while you’re both eating breakfast and doing the dishes or some other minor, mundane activity you say: “Hey…. can we talk?”
I know it sounds trite but communication really helps and talking starts it off.

I don’t think you could be in a more comfortable situation for discussing this… you’ve both agreed to play around, each of you seems to be aware that the other has, and it sounds like you’re still comfortable with each other. Just be yourself, and talk to her. Don’t try to set a mood for the conversation; I know I hate it when SOs try to manipulate situations like that.

Does her affair or fling or whatever bother you at all?

For me, if the sex is not good, then there are severe problems with the relationship. We aren’t connecting on a level that is crucial for me. I don’t feel very accepted or even known is my partner is not making love with me and doesn’t seem to like me, physically.

I wonder what makes you go off on these NSA experiences? Is it just for fun or are there emotions involved? If there are not emotions involved, why do you bother?

You sound like you would be more comfortable being roommates with this woman. I don’t feel a sense of love, although you do seem to be very appreciative of her.

There’s no really easy way into this conversation. There’s no certainty about how it will turn out, nor what feelings it will bring up. I suppose tears aren’t as much of a problem as anger. I don’t know how women want to be introduced to these conversations, so perhaps a woman here could help.

My instinct would be to just go for it one evening. I’d say that you wanted to talk about your arrangement. That you’ve been unhappy, and here’s why, and here’s how it started happening, and then tell the story of your little things, and why you didn’t tell her about them.

Then see what happens. Maybe she will tell her story and maybe she won’t. I wouldn’t ask her. Then you start problem solving to see if you can each get what you want and need. If not, then what? Is it time to separate? You can’t know in advance. All you can do is tell your story and see what happens.

Wow!

OK, in my book, this is not a relationship at all. You don’t socialize together, you don’t have sex, you don’t kiss. You both sleep with others. You both flirt with and socialize with others. You don’t really communicate. I would run, not walk, away from this.

But that’s me. As for you, you say that you have violated the one policy you do have. You have failed to disclose cheating incidents (Why do you call it cheating if it is OK in the bounds of your relationship?). You also snooped through her stuff.

I think that means it is not a good relationship even on your weird terms. A talk is long overdue. But first, you should figure out what you want. It sort of seems as if you would not mind it it ended.

That’s good. I would not mind if it ended. What a mess.

@marinelife Great Answer! What I like most is that it is so you! “That’s good. I would not mind if it ended. What a mess.”

When I retyped that quote, I found myself dying to put in exclamation points!

How can she diminish your social life when she encourages, (or at the least doesn’t oppose) you “seeing” other women? Just curious . . . Other than that, I wish more people were this open minded in relationships! Good for you.

I’m not sure how to help you with your question/issue, but I’d say do your best to work it out. There aren’t many women who are willing to remain with a guy, and even love him and work on things, AND allow him to see other women without making an issue of it.

@wundayatta, her fling doesn’t bother me in and of itself (although it induced a mild degree of shock). I guess maybe I see it as a prompt to find out if we’re going anywhere forward or if I need to get myself ready to move on. I don’t want to mark time being dutiful if she’s waiting on me to get comfortable enough to leave.

Part of my deal is a deep regret at not having had more sexual experiences when I was younger. Right or wrong, that feeling has been undeniable. That was part of our discussion a long time ago, and she was very understanding about it. I am also inept at “playing,” and so the idea of serially seducing women the old-fashioned way has always been too daunting. Also, I guess it’s been a little bit of an exploration to know what it feels like to step out when things get too routine—whether that helps one appreciate and enjoy one’s primary relationship. Aside from the fact that it’s difficult (for me) to get “just in time” NSA, it’s something I’ve generally saved for when I felt I could not hold out longer. To answer your question, I suppose I bother because I haven’t yet made enough of the foolish mistakes maybe most make when they are younger.

@harple, it took me a long time to figure out that she probably has some degree of social anxiety. While I didn’t know better to see it for what it was, I’ve dealt with many episodes sparked by party invitations and other get togethers where her behavior has gotten terse or whereshe has just shut down. Over time, it has been a losing battle for me and my social life (which is important to me) has suffered as a result. And, we are just different intellectually. I don’t fault her for it, but I have certainly had to throttle down over the years and backtrack on a lot of already covered territory to bring her up to my particular speed. I went to college and she started secretarial work and having kids. What can I say? I don’t mean it as derogatory, but more factual.

@mrrich724, you’re right in a sense, but I guess it’s how I’m wired (or wired to her). Again, her social anxiety and perhaps my messy life. But your point about forgiveness is a good one.

@marinelife, it’s not ideal for sure, but it has been loving. I understand where you’re coming from. For me, it has been my best, longest and happiest relationship to date, but it’s also been that way because we (or I) don’t have the same pressures (money, kids, etc) as most long-term couples. FWIW, we socialize primarily in our family contexts, but we generally don’t care much for each other’s friends (who, demographically, are significantly different). As far as not minding if it ended, I’ve long felt it would be a push if it did. I have things to gain and things to lose either way. Similarly, she has always talked about her desire to be alone for once in her life because she is one of those women who has always had to take care of other people.

Anyway, she surprised me and asked if we could have sex tonight, so I guess that’s still in the mix. Like I said, though, there’s not much kissing involved, generally. When people talk about those 5 gifts or 5 love languages or whatever, “touch” is not hers. It’s more like “acts” or something else.

So, my thinking on the best way to approach it is to just disclose my own stuff and not ask about hers. That way, she doesn’t have to feel guilty or confronted if she wants or needs to carry on. And, it puts us on more truthful footing. I have to decide, though, whether it’s necessary to do this before the holidays, because I absolutely do not have time or extra energy for drama due to a full calendar of commitments. That being said, I do welcome more feedback. This has been helpful to clarify my thinking.

My gut feeling reading through all this is that when your gf first gave permission for you to play around and that same permission to herself, she did it not 100%. That you went out and did it, told her and think she has no idea about the other 5 times? If it were me, my intensity about how I thought I felt about you would have immediately changed, modified. I definitely understand the staying together and all else you two enjoy but like you state, things are different than at first, her interest isn’t the same, her intensity isn’t the same. You two may end up having to settle for that untainted feel of love with new partners you take on the side. In my perspective, you kind of killed it for between the two of you right off.

Why in the world would you not tell her about 5 others if she said you can tell her? You either apologize for those times first, see if she tells you about her cheating…but it seems to me neither of you care to be honest with one another.

I wanted to add something about kissing. It’s a passionate thing and also an intimate thing. It’s something you do in genuine with someone you don’t know well enough to not want to kiss them and you do it with someone you know very well and definitely know them well enough to want to kiss them. You generally don’t have much passion to kiss someone you love only nostalgically anymore.

Can someone tell me, PLEASE, because I don’t understand or maybe I’m just old fashioned. Why would someone go into a relationship with the ‘permission’ to play around? I’m sorry but if my own man asked me to sleep around with other women.. I would tell him that we need a break because things aren’t going well and we shouldn’t be together at that point. I wouldn’t actually CONTINUE to be in a relationship at that point.

@thesparrow- here’s a quick list of just a few reasons people do it:

There are people who know they aren’t cut out for monogamy and so they feel safer this way, not to disappoint others.

Some people agree to this because they’re so infatuated that they’ll settle for just a bit rather than that other person being exclusive.

Other people feel they maintain power in a relationship if they direct the other person can never hurt them by disappointing them. They take monogamy off the table so they don’t have be afraid of it not working. They never have to admit to themselves or anyone else they ‘got played.

I don’t believe in people not being cut out for monogamy. This is a post-modern idea.

@thesparrow Why not ask it as a seperate question on here? You could get a whole host of interesting answers.

@XD Personally, I never believe in leaving things until after x-y-z, whatever they may be. You’re not going to enjoy the holidays with this hanging over you anyway, so why not get it out in the open. You can move on from it then, in whichever way seems right once you’ve spoken.

@harple I don’t want to because I’ll get a lot of backlash.

@thesparrow it is possible to ask a question without giving your own opinion, and it would allow this thread to stay on track for the OP. Just an idea, I understand it can be unnerving asking some questions on here.

I think I will ask but I’ll keep it neutral. Thanks for the suggestion, harple.