My daughter keeps missing her curfew. What to do about it?

How about if she misses her curfew during the week she isn’t allowed to go out on the weekends. It is pretty obvious that her currency is her time with her friends so this would be a logical consequence. If she is still late coming home from school insist on picking her up. The tiptoe/tomato/peach thing really has nothing to do with the behavior at hand and frankly sounds rather cruel. Not to mention that if she is still blowing through her curfew it isn’t working to curb the bad behavior.

@SuperMouse we actually did that (not letting her go out on weekends). And she actually snuck out twice when we were already sleeping. Last time it happened was last weekend which is why my husband is so mad as she seems to simply no longer care about the fact that she is hurting us and making us worry about her whereabouts and all she cares about is this boyfriend (which we are not very fond of btw).

About the tiptoe thing, I don’t know if it will have effect or not as my husband only came up with it this week and today is only the second time she has to do it after being late more than 2 hours yesterday (she did the first 60 ‘tiptoes’ minutes yesterday and is now doing the second 60 mins period with 23 minutes left for tomorrow).

My guess is your mixed feeling are that you are against it, but are standing behind him. Make sure that he knows your real feelings.

I think it is a bit over the top and a more civil approach can be found. (She may also never want a tomatoe/peach in her life again).

This is about a boyfriend and will more than likely push and break every rule possible to spend time. Try to recall back to each of your childhoods and what each of you did in this situation.

Maybe a good conversation and some concessions to help each side with this is in order. In a way, you each need to put yourself in each others shoes in order to come to some common ground.

I agree your rules seem very reasonable. But if she is sneaking out then she is in full-out rebellion mode. I would not recommend physical punishment as it will probably alienate her to you and make her feel more rebellious. I think @SuperMouse and @blueiiznh have good suggestions, and I’m sure you’ll receive more soon.

I think that punishment sounds over the top too, and what will she learn by it? At a certain point with our boys, we had a curfew – say 1 a.m. – but if they wanted to be out later than that, they had to call us by 11 so we would know where they were and what the E.T.A. was. Maybe you could set up a system like that for both afterschool and on the weekends. If she is not able to let you know when she will be late, then you can move on to other consequences but I would never do a physical humiliation punishment such as your husband wishes.

I would talk to her about birth control at some point soon though if you feel it is warranted.

Pick her up from school every single day. Bring her home and don’t let her out in the afternoon or on the weekends. Put bells on the doors and make it tough for her to sneak out her window. Have a conversation about what she can do to earn back the right to go out. I would be careful not to rail to intensely on this boyfriend because that might just harden her resolve to be with him.

@janbb about letting her call us when she feels she will miss the curfew…this makes sense but how can i trust that she is where she says she is when she calls? she already lied once about being at her friend’s house and when we checked it was not true. And I do need to know where she is especially at late hours in the night…

Devise an appropriate punishment if she is late. Inform her of this new punishment should she be late again. Then most importantly carry out the punishment if she is late again.

@SuperMouse she didn’t snuck out the window, we live in one of the high rises near the gibraltar harbour so the window will not work. She just went out the main door which opens using a pin code and we can’t responsibly change the code and not let her know it, there can always be a fire in the building or similar.There is always a security guard at the concierge, but the security company keeps changing the guards and some just didn’t care to let us know when it happened (or were sleeping themselves…)

I’d keep her home, grounded, or take other things away, like her TV or other games. Showing up at her school to pick her up would be both humiliating and effective, I think. Have this ‘boyfriend’ over for dinner and let him know that there are rules in your house and if he can’t abide by them, then he is not showing enough respect for your daughter, because she will be the one facing the consequences, not him.

If she is late during the week, she doesn’t go out on the weekend. If she is late on the weekend, you pick her up in person at the school during the week.

Waiting up for her on the weekend and letting her know you know what time she came in and you will be talking about it in the morning, and then do talk about it in the morning EVERY time she is late and punish accordingly. Don’t let her think she’s playing a game of ‘lets see how much I can get away with.’

I try to stay away from the physical punishment stuff. It tends to only build resentment, fear and too many inventive ways to get around the rules even more.

@tedd that’s what my husband did with the tiptoe thing. She was informed last saturday when she snuck out at night that this will happen if she is ever late again. and on thursday she was late again…so do you think we should enforce the punishment or change it to something else? I agree with the people that say that it’s kind of harsh…i tried to do it myself for around 10 mins and it was not comfortable at all…i’m trying to convince my husband to change it to something else but for now he wants to hear none of it.

@blueiiznh you are correct. i’m kind of against it. but when i tried to talk him out of it he got even madder and started saying that it’s all my fault and that i’m not strict enough etc. so for now i didn’t want to say anything anymore until he is in a better mood.

And I echo the suggestion about birth control. It sounds like she’s sneaking around with her boyfriend. Another thing is, have you spoken to the boy’s parents? Are they home all the time? I know that parents of boys have a very different attitude to sex than the girls parents. Double standards they may be, but an ugly life truth.

@chloe_gi If she says she is at a friend’s house, you can call that number. Maybe have her always give you another phone number where she is at in addition to her cell phone and tell her you will call that.

It sounds like your husband is determined to do this punishment. Maybe he has to do it this time since he threatened it but maybe he can be made to see it will only harden her against you two.

Would some family counseling be at all a possibility?

And by the way, welcome to Fluther! It is a great place to get serious help.

You all have to stick with whatever is decided and agreed on once the line is drawn in the sand. If you put a rule in place and backtrack, then this will only continue.

Put some serious time into solving this. Each unacceptable action should have a consequence.

@cazzie everything you mentioned has been tried except picking her up from school which neither of us can do due to work (and given that everyone else walks home my boss would not be very happy if i went away for an hour everyday to do this).

About the boyfriend, he did come for dinner once but my husband almost ended up beating him up…i won’t go into more details but you get the idea…so we’re really out of ideas about what to do which is why my husband came up with this rather exterme, i agree, idea of having her do the tiptoes punishment. We don’t know his parents, he doesn’t go to her school and is frankly kind of a dubious macho guy…we are thinking seriously if we should forbid her to see him altogether.

@chloe_gi It sounds like there is much more to this dynamic already based on “he did come for dinner once but my husband almost ended up beating him up”

Rebellion is certainly in the mix based on that alone.

Maybe at some point you can get in to a discussion with your husband about the different goals between military discipline and family discipline. In the military, you are just trying to get soldiers to bend to authority, while in the family, your goal is to raise a child who will want to communicate with you and who will grow. Big difference!

@janbb GA I could not have said it better.

@blueiiznh do you think it would work if we forbid her to see him at all? or will just make it worse? also, since my husband made it very clear to her that we will use the tiptoe punishment from now on, do you think we should continue with it (even if i don’t personally like it) so as to not be perceived as weak and backtracking?

@janbb very well put!i’ll show it to my husband when he calms down…now i don’t think it will work frankly as he’s just too determined and stubborn

Do not forbid her to see him! That will make it worse. And I have always rethought my responses to my children and told them when I had made a mistake and changed my mind. That did not undermine my authority at all, maybe because I never thought of it in terms of authority but rather thought of relationship.

I think your husband may be on course for losing your daughter if he does not get more flexible in his thinking.

Every time she misses curfew take away a day of something, some hobby, she really enjoys. My daughter had some behavior issues at one point. A counselor suggested that to me, and suggested I take it out of her gymnastics training (which she loved, loved, loved and which we were paying for) including competing in events. I was a little shocked at first because Gymnastics is such a very good thing…but we did it, and it worked.

And…sometimes you just have to track them down, too. Go find her! It’s embarrassing for them, but then they know that you WILL come after them!

PS. I hope you like us better than Y! Answers!

@janbb you seem like a wise person, i fully agree with your posts. I wish my husband was the same way, but he is more the impulsive kind and has all these theories about how life is tough and kids should be toughened up when they grow up etc. It’s not the first time he uses these kinds of punishments btw. He also uses things like hold your arms up above your head or out to the sides in a T holding books for bad grades, etc

@Dutchess_III about fluther, i already like the site. much more interactive and clearly better quality posts compared to y answers.

What’s the point of the curfew? You say it’s not about safety. Even if it were, if she is at her boyfriend’s home, she’s safe from everyone but her boyfriend.

Is it to keep her from doing things that are inappropriate? If that’s the reason, the cat’s already out of the bag, probably.

Is it to keep the neighbors from talking? That’s not much of a reason.

Is it to keep her on track at school? Then the consequences should be tied to school performance, not curfew.

You know, I hope, that punishment doesn’t work with young people. Research shows that over and over. Young love will not be denied. Punishment only makes them angry and secretive. She’s growing up, obviously making her own decisions. First thing I’d do is figure out what it was I wanted __for her__ not for you. Then talk to her about it and how you see her social life impeding those goals.

My first thought is that the weekday restriction might be relaxed. It’s not that it’s a bad rule, but your daughter clearly has shown that it’s not livable for her. So renegotiate.

@chloe_gi unless i missed something, I have not read anything that shows the bf is doing anything wrong. Dubious macho is not much to go on. If you want to meet the parents, then you can make that happen too. This is for all of your sakes.
Forbiding will only instill a resentment.
Working together is the only way through this based on a unified set of family values and beliefs.

Here’s a piercing question that you don’t need to answer online but maybe think about: How much are you afraid of your husband and how far are you willing to go in confronting him so that you can help your daugther?

I was lucky, although my husband and I are from very different cultures, we did not have many conflicts in our parenting beliefs.

@6rant6 she’s not at the bf house but going to clubs etc. the point of the curfew is to have her home and able to focus on her homework during the week. the weekend curfew is about safety because even though this is a small town and very safe during the day, let’s be realistic, no place is 100% safe after 1am on weekend nights with lots of drunk people going around.

@blueiiznh maybe i’ll sound prejudiced, but the boyfriend is a drummer in a band, has way too many metal sticking out of various holes in his body and she is a really smart girl, always among the first in her class, so we want her to use her good grades and go to a good unuiversity, have a great career and not waste her time with this guy who may be cool now but will probably end up fixing cars in some dubious garage when he grows up and mom and dad won’t be paying the bills.

@janbb indeed a complicated question to answer online but i’ll just say that indeed my husband is not the easiest guy to go against.

I’m not a parent so this might not be very helpful, but have you tried talking to your daughter about what she thinks is a reasonable curfew, and maybe finding a compromise?

If you are setting arbitrary rules for her, it sounds like she is of the age to realize that they are meaningless, and she might be willing to suffer pretty much any consequences to get what she wants. But if you can communicate to her why you’re setting these rules and listening to what she wants, perhaps there is a way you can both find an acceptable agreement?

@chloe_gi If it’s really about school work, then it needs to be about school performance, not about curfew. She can see that. By pretending one is the other, you look controlling and lacking empathy, not caring. Certainly a compromise would be better than nothing. Having her participate in the rule making helps her to become an adult.

If it’s really about safety, then address that will her. (I’m dubious that she’s clubbing after school.) If there was a rule that she’d always answer her cell phone when you call would that alleviate some of your concern? Don’t expect to get everything the way you or the Mr. wants. Try to find something you can all live with.

Talk to your husband about the inevitable consequences of hostile relationships versus what you can do to help your daughter assume more responsibility for her decisions. His rules are a way for him to make decisions for her. She’s 16, she’s probably having the time of her life. Playing Major Dad is not going to hold sway.

@6rant6 the weekend curfew is about safety. the schoolday curfew is about having enough time to study and do homework.

Have you guys had any real conversations with your daughter about this, or have you just talked at her about the rules? If you approach her with the goal of understanding where she’s coming from, it’s fairly likely that you can work out a mutually satisfying arrangement. Of course, that would require compromise, so you would need to be prepared for that before beginning the conversation. As long as you simply try to enforce rules that she doesn’t understand or appreciate, you will only make her more rebellious. If you come up with reasonable rules and consequences together, she will be more willing to comply since she had a hand in deciding what they are and understands why they are in place. Since she sounds like she’s getting relatively close to adulthood, this would be a good learning opportunity for her in setting her own boundaries to meet her goals.

Also, it’s really not your place to decide who she should date. This guy may not be your idea of an ideal mate, but is there truly anything wrong with manual labor? Not everyone is meant to go to college. If he doesn’t go, that does not make him less of a man or less worthy of your daughter. Besides, the way a person decides to look and the hobbies he chooses is not a fair indication of his character or where he will end up in life.

Full disclosure: I am not a parent, so take all of this as you will. However, I have spent several years working with rebellious teens at camp, so I have a pretty good idea what works to get them on your side and what pushes them farther away. I would say the biggest thing is to work with them rather than ruling over them, and to choose your battles carefully rather than making everything an issue.

@bobbinhood i think it will be very hard to have my husband bend the rules. he is not a very consensus building kind of guy, but more of a ‘she is my daughter and she must do what i say’ kind of guy. Don’t want to be overly critical of him though, he did work very hard all his life to give us a comfortable financial situation but he does have a short temper and a fairly controlling mindset.

@chloe_gi, What a surprise that with a dad like that your teenager wants to rebel.

@nikipedia i’ll admit that sometimes i think the same.

@chloe_gi Another thing to consider is whether you are trying to help her reach her goals or yours. You said, “we want her to use her good grades and go to a good university, have a great career…” What if that’s not what she wants? If she feels like you guys are pushing a goal on her rather than helping her to meet her own goals, you can only expect more rebellion. Does she feel like her relationship with you guys is more dependent on her academic success than on who she is? If so, it’s a recipe for disaster.

Unfortunately, your husband’s authoritarian attitude is likely yielding the opposite results of what he’s going for. If he cares more about being in charge than a bout a relationship with his little girl, I’m not sure what you can do. If you approached it correctly, do you think you could get him to respond well to a conversation about helping her set and meet her own goals rather than expecting her to meet his? At some point he needs to realize that she is her own person. If he can’t accept that, he risks losing her forever.

@chloe_gi put bells on the door so you can hear her coming and going. It may be easy to sneak out without making much noise, it is nearly impossible to sneak in! If your strong military husband installs them, odds are good she won’t be strong enough to remove them!

@6rant6 while @chloe_gi does say that school work and focus are the reasons for the weekend curfew, forcing a child to stick to a curfew time is also about teaching them responsibility. It is about her parents helping to prepare this young lady for the time when she will have to arrive at a job on time and be self-motivated to succeed in life. This is a way of helping her learn that she cannot shirk the responsibilities of life.

The reality is that this tomato/tiptoe punishment has nothing to do with the crime and therefore will probably do little other than cause her to think her parents are slightly sadistic. I do like the suggestions of talking to her. Share you concerns about her boyfriend and for her future. Explain why it is important for her focus to be on school. Then ask her what she thinks is a reasonable punishment for this behavior. @janbb is completely right when she says that as long as you address this appropriately, you will not look weak if you change the punishment to something that relates more closely to the crime. A

Have you asked her what time she would like to come back? I mean as long as she does her work and isn’t stopping out til midnight on a school-night surely shes old enough now to work out what time she should be coming home in regards to her schedule and when she wants to be doing her homework. My mum always used to ask me what time will I be home that day. If I was then late then I would not be able to go out at the weekend. My parents would just want to know before I left in the morning, would I definitely be back for dinner… Then I would do my work later that evening, some days however, I would get back from school early and do my work then and then go out later. It depends what people were doing outside school.
Maybe have a flexible time when she comes back, ask her then seriously stick to it because she has made her own rules.

Frankly, I thought this could be a trolling question when I heard that she had managed to stay on her toes for an hour. I find that difficult to believe. Were you watching her the whole time?

Your husband doesn’t know what he’s doing. The military method of discipline, as fond as soldiers are of it, is dysfunctional. It is a purely hazing mechanism designed to create a certain cohesiveness amongst those who survive it. It, of necessity, requires that some people get picked out as scapegoats, who fail, so the others can bond.

Your daughter is not in a group of recruits. The only possible cohort to bond with she might have is a sibling or her schoolmates or her boyfriend. Guess who is most likely? Everyone you and your husband are doing could not be better designed to drive her away from you and into the arms of her boyfriend.

How many times have you hear, “You don’t understand!” How many sullen looks have you seen on her? How miserable is it to be around her these days? She’s 16. These are the last years you will have with her at home. Is this how you want to spend the time with her? Is this how you want to drive a rift between you? Let me ask you a question? Do you want to have grandchildren? Do you ever want to see them?

She’s 16. She wants to party. She wants to feel loved. Cared for. In fact, she is desperate for it. She isn’t getting it at home, so where do you expect her to go? And who is she getting the least love from? Is it any surprise that her boyfriend is about as opposite from her father as can possibly be?

You need to have confidence that love and understanding are the key here. Your husband has to lose his attitude and eat crow. She has to win this one. He won’t allow that to happen, of course, so my advice is useless, but I’ll give it anyway.

One day, she’ll come back and tell you “boy, did I make a mistake.” She’s made a mistake and maybe she already knows it, but there’s no way she can admit that. She’s had to work too hard for her mistake. Sunk costs and all that. There’s no way in hell she can leave the dude now that she’s stood on tiptoe for hours for him.

She should come back and tell you that, but it’ll only happen if you let up. You need to understand her. Understand her motivations. Understand what love means to her. Understand why she wants fun. She’s 16 and she has hormones raging in her body. You can’t stop that. You can only try to guide it, and you can only guide it if she’s willing to talk to you and she’ll never talk to you if she doesn’t think you listen.

You listen and you don’t judge. You talk to her about the boy. You become a confident. And I’m sorry, but you can’t judge. You just ask questions and trust that, since she’s a smart girl, she’ll eventually figure it out. You trust that she knows how to learn. Does she go to a Catholic school? I’m not sure what the school system is like in Gibraltar, so I’m not sure how your husband’s ideas are echoed there.

As to your husband, you have to stand up to him. This system of punishments isn’t working. You need to work with your daughter, not against her. You are her only buffer between her and your husband, and you are the one who has to protect her and teach him to do things differently.

If possible, get family therapy. This problem is much deeper than the boyfriend or it never would have escalated to this point. I doubt your husband would go, but you may have to urge him to do this and teach him why. It’ll be no good if he goes because you force him to. It has to be because he wants help in solving this problem and because he is open to the idea that he can learn to communicate with his daughter better. There is no need to say anyone has a problem or is at fault. But you do need some better communication skills. Or rather, empathy skills.

This peach thing is bullshit, though! I can’t even believe anyone ever came up with it. That has to stop. Yesterday! It is abuse, in my opinion. Stop it now!

Does your town has an actual curfew? I’m sure it probably does and for a 16 y.o. it’s probably not as late as 1 a.m….use the services that your taxes pay for…have the police pick her up, explain the situation to them, they will likely be helpful. Another option, one that I have used myself, is to take away everything they have…phone (she can use the school phone to call you is she needs anything), TV, video games, cool clothes (pick her outfits out for her until she comes to her senses), computer. She doesn’t leave the house unless she is with you or her father…sounds heavy but definitely works. By the way, how old is the BF/ If I may ask….

I would ask her why she is having trouble being home by curfew. I would also explain to her why, specifically why, you have the curfew in place. I think this is a chance for her to logically negotiate with you a new compromise. If you have the curfew to control her, you are coming from the wrong place. If you have the curfew to know she is safe, that I can completely understand. You are her parents, her practice before she hits the adult world in explaining her rationale for why she should be able to have more freedom, or later it willbe why she deserves a raise, or the promotion, or work together with her husband to decide how to acheive her own goals.

If I were her parent I would be in the mode of she must check in with me so I always know where she is. If the rule is she be home within an hour after school, she must let me know if she will be late. I can’t worry about such things. Wondering where she is. Find out why she is having a hard time making the night time curfew. I had a much ater curfew than my friends, because they went to house parties, got drunk, and the cops broke it up by midnight. I went to dance clubs with my boyfriend, never drank, and wasn’t home until 3:00 in the morning.

If you negotiate a new deal then if she breaks curfew I would ground her for weeks. She should know ahead of time this will be her punishment. Two weeks no phone, home 20 minutes after school, no contact with her boyfriend.

I also would get her some condoms or birth control pills.

I second the idea of family therapy, although I doubt your husband would go along with it. He is part of the problem; not part of the solution. You are caught in the middle, which is an uncomfortable place to be. I’m sorry to say it, but I think you have to stand up to him in a gentle but firm way or, indeed, you will lose your daughter.

@Tuesdays_Child I don’t know if there’s an actual legal curfew here. I doubt it though. I know that in the US there are strict laws about curfews and selling alcohol to people under 21 but things are a bit more laid back in this respect in Europe. I think last week I read a news item which was saying that in a recent poll a significant percentage of British teens (don’t remember the actual number) have been drunk at least once in the past week…

I forgot to add that if your husband tends to do the military, very strict, zero tolerance, power driven, controlling thing, she is bound to rebel hard I would think. Of course all parents need to control their children to some extent, but it can be brought to an extreme. I am not presuming anything about your husband, but his punishment in this case seems extremely harsh, doesn’t teach her anything, and not fitting.

@chloe_gi I definitely believe that.
I know I was drinking by the age of 16, not copious amounts but I first got introduced to alcohol pretty young, I don’t drink a lot! but I did drink regularly at the age of 16, I would go down the pub at a weekend and I know my younger sister borrowed my ID from the age of 16 to go to clubs its a bit harder now they have brought in this “look 21 thing”!

I’ve never heard of a town curfew for young people. (UK)

@JLeslie I agree and unfortunately this is not the only time he has used similar tactics. As I think I already mentioned in a previous post he also makes her stand with her arms above her head or out to the sides holding books, or do pushups / situps for various things like bad grades, talking back, not doing chores etc. I don’t support these methods but then he always accusses me of being too soft and saying I’m to blame for the problems with her.

@chloe_gi…o.k., you might give the other option I listed a try..it worked for us.

Your husband’s method of punishment sounds like child abuse.

If grounding her and taking away her cell phone did not work, then do not let her see her boyfriend.

Pick her up after school.

Tell the boyfriend that if she is not home by her 1 A.M. curfew, she will no longer be able to go out with him.

@Tuesdays_Child the bf is 21 (so way too old for her the way i see it)

@chloe_gi…yep, at her age a five year difference is alot…not familiar with UK laws..does the age difference constitute a legal issue there?

@Tuesdays_Child I’m not sure but I know that in my own country in Eastern Europe (where I grew up) girls can marry from 16 onwards with parental consent and from 18 without parental consent since they are adults. But I doubt there is any law forbidding a non-contractual relationship (just bf/gf). To be honest I don’t know what UK laws say about it and even less sure what Gibraltar laws say (I know that in some areas Gibraltar is self governing).

Okay. I’m gonna get flamed for this, and probably censored by the mods, but I think the problem is that your curfew is unreasonable. She’s 16, so she’s practically a young adult. School lets out when? 4? 5? So she has to be home by 6 for a 16 year old? That’s a little ridiculous, IMO. No wonder she’s rebelling against it.

Maybe set a more reasonable curfew, like 8 or 9. And make it conditional on getting her homework done. If the homework isn’t being done, then the curfew gets moved earlier.

@HungryGuy I welcome all points so I certainly don’t want to flame anyone about their opinion, after all it’s the purpose of such sites to encourage online debate. The school actually finishes quite early, on most days at 3pm, but I don’t find having to be home by 4pm unreasonable. Once she is home she needs 2–3 hours on average to do her homeworks, we take her to ballet practice 2 times a week and we go together to the gym on two other days so I find it quite ok for her to have to be home by 4pm.

@chloe_gi Maybe she’s feeling a little overscheduled and wishes she had more time to just spend relaxing with friends. Have you two talked recently about whether she’s still enjoying ballet and her other after-school commitments?

@chloe_gi – Sorry if I came across a little harsh. Maybe have a little talk about the ballet and the gym? Suggest she either needs to get home in time to get her homework done, or she needs to give up the ballet and/or the gym. Of course, she needs to fulfill whatever commitments she made to the various teams, but suggest that if she gives up the gym or the ballet, then she can have a later curfew.

Wait, he is 21? I missed that. I would not be happy at all with him being so much older. Let’s give him the benefit of the doubt that the guy is not trouble; if he is 21 he should easily understand why you have curfews, as opposed to a rebellious teenager. Does he know your curfew?

@JLeslie yes he does know about the curfew, but frankly doesn’t act like he cares much about it….he’s not the most responsible guy imho

@Mariah she loves ballet so that’s certainly not the issue,

What are her grades like? How is this affecting her schoolwork?

@SpatzieLover last year she finished 3rd in her class, this year grades are ok but not as good as last year. so i think it’s clearly affecting her schoolwork

@chloe_gi does she love ballet enough for you to use it as leverage? Would it be realistic to tell her that with her being out so late and losing focus something is going to have to give and since she refuses to follow the rules that will have to be ballet?

Let her know in no uncertain terms that schoolwork MUST come first. Then, friends and boyfriends. If she doesn’t have a job, and you as parents allow that because you want her to have good grades, remind her of that.

It sounds to me like you and your husband need to speak privately to refocus. He may be in denial that she is nearly an adult. If needed, you may want to both go to a therapists to discuss your plans with someone, then implement them.

More than anything, I’d focus on open, honest communication with your daughter. Let her know you’re concerned for her future, her grades, and her well-being. Personally, I wouldn’t even discuss the boyfriend for a while. I’d re-focus.

I think your husband’s idea of punishment is verging on abuse and may badly damage his relationship with your daughter. I would be honest with her and tell her why you want her to be home by a certain time. Tell her you are worried about her getting through her exams or whatever it is and see if you can work out a compromise. Physical punishment is a very bad idea.

I know that this is probably considered old-fashioned, but do you know if they are sexually active? He’s 21 so you need to give that some thought…..

@Tuesdays_Child that’s a whole different story and I’d rather not discuss it here…but fully agree that that is certainly not something to be overlooked or taken lightly

Sorry, I didn’t mean to be indelicate but I work with a group of teens who are exhibiting a lot of the same behaviors as your daughter and, frankly, it troubles me…..

Thanks all for your contribution to this. Lots of good quality answers and clearly a very interesting q&a concept al fluther. I have to go for the day (and for the weekend) but should be back next week when hopefully I can start to contribute not only towards asking but also towards answering other questions.

@chloe_gi You are going to be a great addition to Fluther. Have a good weekend!

@chloe_gi I would not use her ballet as a bargaining chip.

Welcome to fluther.

@JLeslie why wouldn’t you use her ballet as a bargaining chip?

@SuperMouse Because I would never want to take away ballet from my daughter. It is good for her health, it is disciplined, it is beautiful, and I would not want to risk having to follow through with taking it away. I would not want to punish her with something I greatly value as a positive influence in her life.

@JLeslie it would be interesting to find out how much she values ballet. If she does she will make her curfew.

I’m kind of with @JLeslie on this. I wouldn’t want to take away the things that are good for her, although I see your point.

I see this as finding the kid’s currency and if ballet is her currency – use it. If she is doing it for herself, because she loves it, she’ll step up and follow the rules. If she is doing it because her mother loves it she won’t. I know it might sound harsh, but it is less harsh than standing on her tiptoes for a duration of time and at least it is a consequence that somehow relates to the rules she is breaking.

@SuperMouse I understand where you are coming from, but as a mom (I am not a mom, but if I were) I would worry her involvement with this new man is going to distract her from her ballet in the first place. Ballet class is time away from him, and hopefully a good infuence.

I would forbid her to see him if she does not make it in by curfew, or take away something else. But, just to reiterate, I also think maybe she needs a revision in her curfew, allow her to have some power in the agreement, so she is not compelled to spite her parents.

@SuperMouse It is not about being harsh, it is about I don’t want her to stop going to ballet. I don’t want to risk it. It might already be threatened just dating the new guy.

I would want to punish with something she thinks she can’t live without, but I know she would be better off without anyway. Like limiting phone time, computer time, etc.

I had a friend in high school who was always good in school and avoided trouble. Then, she met this guy and went crazy. She started staying out late, ignoring her curfew, getting into huge fights with her parents. The guy was older than her and clearly a bad influence. The more her parents came down on her, the more she rebelled. When her parents told her she couldn’t see this guy any more, she ran away. For a few days no one had any idea where she was. Her parents and older brother were going out of their minds. Finally, she came home. She was upset and sad for a while, but started seeing a therapist and quickly returned to her usual happy self. I never could figure it out, but it does seem to me that some lessons have to be learned the hard way.

So, I don’t know if there’s anything at all you and your husband can do. I don’t think his punishment is going to do anything other than cause more resentment and rebellion. Telling her what to do and what not to do isn’t working, so either she doesn’t care or you haven’t been consistent.

Is there another responsible person you know who could pick her up from school? If it were my kid, I’d try to work out something like that. She’d be confined to the house when not at school and would have to earn our trust before being allowed out. Maybe you need something like this on the door so she can’t leave without you knowing. But like I said, cracking down like this could have the opposite effect from what you hope.

Your only other option is to sit down and talk to her. And by that I mean, listen to her. Without judging or getting emotional, ask what she sees in this guy. Does she trust him and feel safe with him? Ask her how school is going and what she sees for her life going forward. Have her talk out the consequences of various decisions and really try to help her see where she’s headed. At the very least, let her know you will always be there for her and help her, but that she’s ultimately responsible for her own choices.

Whatever you do, I’d suggest getting professional help for the whole family. You and your husband can learn methods of communicating and having a healthy relationship with your daughter without making her feel like she is being controlled or bossed around. It sounds like she’s used to getting her way up to this point and you and your husband don’t have any sway with her. :(

@chloe_gi And, the worst part is if she hates her father for these punishment, she will be more easily wooed by men who are seemingly nice to her. She becomes an easy target. Parents have it so tough, it’s like you can’t win in some situations.

What worked for me, raising two sons and helping raise three grandsons, was to ask them what they thing the curfew is all about and what needs to be done to avoid the problem. If she insists on breaking the rules, what does she expect will happen, and even better, what do you need to do to help her keep the curfew.

You guys…when the counselor told me the same thing regarding my daughter’s deteriorating behavior…to take away gymnastics practice in increasing increments to change her behavior, I felt the same way. It was a very positive aspect of her life…why would I restrict that? But….we did it on his advice. As soon as my daughter realized were were very serious, she straightened back up, and stayed good for the next three years because gymnastics was important to HER. And she was willing to prove it. @SuperMouse hit it square on the head “it would be interesting to find out how much she values ballet. If she does she will make her curfew.”

I’m just here to tell you, from experience, not philosophy, it works.

Have you tried talking to the boyfriend. Tell him that she needs to be home by a certain time each night or she will not be allowed to see him anymore. He may be more inclined to rush her home on time if he feels he will not get to see her. Then you put the responsibility on him and when he rushes her home, she will be more annoyed with him than you. Only if it doesn’t work out and she wins her way with him than ground her for two weeks with no calls and you pick her up after school and drop her off at school. Then he will know you are serious and be more inclined to pressure her. Then she may get tired of him and drop him.
I do have to wonder though. Are you being consistant? Have you always been consistant with your punishments?
Now if you really don’t want the hassle, you can try making the curfew earlier by two hours. This way she may still come in the actual time you want and she feels she is rebelling but the truth is you are getting her home at a reasonable time.
Another thing you may want to consider is your curfew actually a reasonable time for her age. She’s going to come hom late if she’s 16 and her curfew is 5 pm and all her other friends come home at 8. If that is the case than you may want to sit down with her and find out what she may consider a reasonable time.

This is totally the same person that asked the question about how to punish her daughter for buying $700 shoes. Doesn’t anyone else remember that one?

@prioritymail I thought the same thing. But, I couldn’t be sure. The OP uses British English and the other OP was Chinese-American living in China. It would be a lot of detail if it is someone else.

Where the hell did the kid come up with $700???

@Dutchess_III She charged it on a credit card her parents gave her. They didn’t notice the charge, just ran accross her shoes one day in the closet. Here is the Q.

@JLeslie i checked the other question out. Indeed it seems very similar except that my daughter certainly does not have a vw beetle or $700 shoes (at least not that I know of…). The similarity comes maybe from the fact that just like in the other question my husband is of Chinese origin? I think that if you talk to other asian families you’ll probably find many other similar stories. There’s even a Facebook page that got a few thousand members where kids from Asian families post their experiences…it’s called, quite explicitly I might add, ‘my Chinese parents used to beat me with a feather duster’ :) just google it, you’ll find many similar situations there

What does OP mean, btw? Original poster?

@chloe_gi Original post, or some use it as original poster.

There was a book recently publised called ‘Tiger Mothers’.

http://www.npr.org/2011/01/11/132833376/tiger-mothers-raising-children-the-chinese-way

Might be worth a read for some insight.

@cazzieThat book advocates very strict and over-disciplined childrearing. Do you think that is what is needed here?

@janbb I said ‘insight’ not ‘instruction’. We’re looking at a clash of cultures here and that book is almost a tongue and cheek look at the very strict ways some kids from Chinese culture are brought up. If you don’t ‘get’ the tone of the book, I guess it’s not for you.

@cazzie I haven’t read it, just about it and the controversy it raised In America; that’s why I was questioning. That isn’t the way it was presented in the media but you’re correct; I shouldn’t have judged it without reading it.

Yes, OP means Original Poster.

As a somewhat rebelliant teenager myself, I can tell you that you have to stick with whatever you decide to do in way of punishment. Go along with your husbands “tiptoe” whatever for a while, and if there isn’t a difference in her behavior, then go on with another punishment. It won’t have any effect on her if you are not consistent. Even if it is a little harsh. Obviously, if she is continuing to disobey, it isn’t too harsh or she would change her behavior to stop it. And if she does continue coming home past curfew, or won’t follow any other rules you have in your house, add onto the punishment. Take away her cell phone. Take away any privileges she has. If she can’t communicate with her bf, how can she know to sneak out with him or whatever? Make it more difficult for her. And don’t just ground her for a couple days either. Make it longer or it won’t make a difference to her. And don’t just take away her privileges, make her do things like cleaning the house. If she has to do things she doesn’t like, she’s more likely to obey so she won’t have to. And as far as the boyfriend goes, don’t forbid her to see him. That’s when the sneaking around and lying gets worse and she will hate you for it. And your relationship with her will weaken. That’s a major key to having a child that respects you and obeys you, Develop a strong relationship with her. You can’t expect a child to change with only punishment. You need to be able to communicate well with her. Talk to her let her know you care for her. Listen to her and see how she feels. There is always reasons behind actions. Either because they feel unloved, misunderstood, or whatever. Just let her know you care about her and let her know you have rules and consequences, not because you want to control her, but because you dont want anything to happen to her. Let her know that she worries you and she hurts you when she lies or sneaks around or whatever. Be open with her, tell her how it effects you. And dont tell her she’donating bad decisions, that will anger her. If your husband insists on making her do the tip toe thing, let him. She should have consequences for disobeying, but also, you should be there to help her. Sometimes us teenagers just need to know our parents care. Be calm with her. Raisin your voice or lecturing her wont accomplish anything. Parents think it gets the point across when then sit there and lecture their child, but your child will listen to you better when you’re calm and understanding. Try spending more time with her. Make plans to do studff with her afterschool so she’ll want to come home.

The next time your daughter miss her curfew don’t allow her to see her friends,
play video games,watch movies,and don’t allow your daughter to watch t.v.

One of my daughters pulled that and unbeknownst to her,after many
failed attempts at talking to “her”, I finally had a ‘talk” with her boyfriend.
By the way my daughter was 13 years old and her boyfriend was 17 years old!
I arranged to meet the boyfriend at a local mall where we had a coffee in
a relaxed atmosphere, where I calmly explained to him that my daughter
being only 13 years of age was so enamored with him that “she” wanted to
marry him! And that meant that she may had wanted a pregnancy to get him?
He then informed me that it was my daughter that was placing pressure on him
to get involved more seriously? ( raging hormones)
He was against that and I also warned him that “if” he got her pregnant or
even somehow married her , I reminded him that “I” would become ‘his”
mother in law and that ‘if” he also interrrupted her Education plans, that I
would then become the worst mother in law in history and that I would
make everyday miserable for him!
He laughed but I remained serious and he got the message .
I also had a talk with his mother about this conversation as well .
She instructed him to stay with my daughter until she was of legal age
“18 years old” or until she got over him.
He in turn treated her with the appropriate respect until she reached
of legal age.
It worked!
This is not a surprise but “she” ended the relationship as she continued
on to University and a good job as an Accountant with her degree.
Apparently she became bored when ‘he’ quit school in Grade 11 to assist
his parents in their Jewelery Business.
She never forgave him for that as she herself was ambitious.
Also it became known that he had got another girl pregnant and was planning
on marrying her. ( I am sure that he felt railroaded into marrying her).
They did marry and a couple of years later they divorced.
Both ,or in this case all three were disappointed and unhappy.

So you think humiliation is effective. My “parents” did this to me when I was younger and made me stand in living room where younger half-siblings could laugh at me. They never had to do it, but I was the step-child. My “mother” never defended me. By the time I was 16, I HATED them both. I was very rebellious and wouldn’t have taken that abuse if they'd have beaten me, which they also did when I was younger. I married two weeks into 17 to get away from these nutjobs, of course to another malignant narc because it felt familiar.

My daughter missed curfew 2 times at 13. The second time I called the cops.