Should all smoking in vehicles be banned across the UK to protect people from second-hand smoke?

Ugh. Leave us alone. I don’t smoke around non-smokers, I don’t smoke around children, I certainly don’t smoke in my car with someone that doesn’t smoke, I’m not hurting anyone but myself, and it should be my fucking right to do whatever I please with my own body.

@ANef_is_Enuf – My sentiments exactly!

I guess I am confused by the question and response so far. You both seem to want the right to choose not to do something that you think is harmful to others. But clearly, some smokers do choose to smoke in their cars while others are present. This will
mainly affect children, since adults have the choice not to ride with such a person. Why would you oppose a law that prevents them from smoking in cars, only because you want to maintain the right to choose not to do it yourselves?

@dappled_leaves because I smoke in my car when no one else is with me. Or when other smokers are with me, and I don’t want to be told that I can’t. It’s my car, for crying out loud.

@dappled_leaves – You’ve hit the nail on the head with your second sentence – want the right to choose!

It seems to me that civil liberties in the UK are largely non-existent.

If it’s your personal vehicle and they choose to be there, knowing that you would or could be lighting up, that’s on them. It seems society would be better served if the law was written to protect those who society deems incapable of making that choice and leaving everyone else to do as they will.

Huh? They want to ban smoking in cars? Is this a UK/USA language mix-up? By cars, do they mean these or are they talking about public train cars or something?

I am all for people being safe and healthy and of course for parents being responsible enough not to expose their children to secondhand smoke, but this is not a good idea. A car is a personal possession and government has no business in our personal possessions.

I think smoking in an enclosed area (car, house, restaurant) when children are present should be banned. It probably won’t happen because people won’t stand for being told what they can and can’t do in their own homes or cars, but kids don’t have the option of riding with someone else or just leaving. It always amazes me to see people smoking in a car or room with children or babies. How can anyone do that, knowing how harmful it can be? Are there really still people who don’t know (don’t care?) that second-hand smoke is one of the major risk factors for SIDS?

But what smokers do in their own personal space is their business. I just wish there was a reasonable way to get people to stop exposing kids to it.

As @SuperMouse points out, there may be valid reasons to look out for the welfare of children. If this is the goal, however, shouldn’t we be making it illegal to expose kids to smoke rather than making smoking in a car illegal? I don’t see the connection.

If my neighbor drives to work every day by himself and smokes the whole way, the only person he has affected is himself.

In Missouri, the law makers banned smoking throughout the state… except for their own offices inside the state capital building. So if a citizen wants to smoke, just arrange a meeting with your state senator in his office. Light up all you want… and don’t forget to take the kids. They do this in a building we pay for.

My company has told us not to smoke in company vehicles. All it did was piss off the smokers, since we usually don’t have passengers.

No. People should be allowed to smoke in their cars as long as smoking is still legal. The only exception might be smoking while a minor is in the car, that would make sense to me. Oh, and please fine smokers when they throw their cig butts on the street for littering.

@filmfann Maybe the company has to pay when they return a car that smells like an ashtray and has some damage fromexcessive smoking.

I smoke in my own car on my own if I smoke I will ask others in the car if they mind, and I stress honestly mind. But I wont usually smoke if there are people who don’t smoke in the car anyway. It is my car why shouldn’t I be allowed to smoke in it. If there are people in my car with me then they should be grateful that I am giving them a lift! If they don’t like my smoking they can walk. Its not a big deal to me. I don’t have kids and if and when I do I would never smoke in the car or house but that’s up to me. Next they will be saying you can’t smoke in your own home then ban smoking all together. It is your choice and I would defend my right to smoke in my own car any day. I would not mind a ban on smoking with children in the car but that’s a different matter.
It is already banned to smoke in public places and that includes company vehicles but you own vehicle? That’s not fair at all

Why would people be upset about a law that dictates what they would do anyway? Everyone here seems to agree they would not smoke in their car if children were present, so a law about it doesn’t affect you at all. I completely understand being against and annoyed about a law in general about smoking in cars, I am against it too.

My dad smoked in the house costantly when we were little and my sister hates him for it. If there had been a law maybe he would not have to live with his adult daughter resenting him so much for it. She felt miserable every day and he did not care, it was worse when she was sick, he dismissed her complaints for his addiction. He regrets it now. Not only because she resents it, but because he thinks he was wrong.

Also, even adults have a hard time saying, “yes, please don’t smoke, thank you for asking.” You think asking gives the person the ability to stop you from lighting up, but how often does someone tell you to not smoke really? My husbamd hates, hates when people smoke, but he would never stop someone most likely. He would just not be around that person as much while they do smoke.

I personally don’t mind if someone smokes a little when I am around.

@JLeslie I don’t ask. Even if non-smokers insist that they don’t mind, I’d rather step outside. It’s just my own preference.
I just don’t want to be told what I can and can not do in my own space when there is no one around to be affected by my behavior.

@ANef_is_Enuf Believe me I get it. I don’t like laws governing every little thing in my own private space. Banning all smoking would be way too far for me, but I can see the rationale behind banning smoking if someone else is present. In apartment buildings the smoke and smell can waft over to other apartments, especially depending on how the air and venting system is interconnected. I guess there are non-smoking buildings to take care of that, even if there is not a law.

We dictate children must be in safety seats in cars, this is similar I think regarding children.

A car is private property, there is no grounds to ban smoking in cars, if you don’t like it, don’t get in the car. However, perhaps it would be ok to ban smoking in cars while the car is in motion, simply to prevent accidents from lack of concentration.

@JLeslie: “We dictate children must be in safety seats in cars, this is similar I think regarding children.”

…except this seems to be saying that people driving around with no kids should be required to have kids’ car seats in their cars.

Well, that was an interesting answer, @RealEyesRealizeRealLies, but not quite correct, apparently.

When the politicians start wagging their fingers and saying that it’s “for the children”, then the battle is lost.

I just won’t get in a car with someone who is smoking. I don’t think legislation is needed for that.

@tom_g Right, I agreed banning all smoking in cars is ridiculous, see my first answer.

@JLeslie – sorry. Got lost for a minute.

@tom_g No problem, I did start playing devils advocate a little, which might have been confusing, but no matter what I maintain people should be able to smoke in their cars if no one else is present.

Dumb.

@CaptainHarley We are not far behind. Read Wiki on Protect IP Act

Where does an individual’s freedom come into play in this proposal? This is going way too far.

I agree with no smoking in cabs. I agree with no smoking in restaurants.

But banning a person from smoking in their own personal vehicle, oversteps the boundary of freedom.

I have a new car and do not smoke in it. I do not smoke in my home. But, for the government to tell me I cannot smoke in my own personal car, is a violation of my right to freedom.

I am not hurting anyone, but myself and the outside air belongs to all of us.

This is going way too far.

Smokers and those affected by them use tax dollars in the health care system in the UK. OK?

@cazzie – What are you saying? Is this strange car thing an attempt to take a step towards outlawing tobacco completely? If so, why not just try to outlaw it – along with french fries (or “chips” or whatever you call them)?

@tom_g I definitely think the ultimate goal is to outlaw smoking competely.

Then they should just try. And then outlaw unhealthy foods, driving a car, ladders, not exercising, etc.

I don’t get the “smoking shall be outlawed on every other Monday between the hours of 10am and 5pm anywhere painted blue or light orange” crap.

@tom_g Probably there are people out there trying, but I think the majority of people don’t want to infringe that much on people’s right to choose their own poison, LOL.

None of those other things are bad for you in small doses and moderation. Even small doses of the tobacco products most people smoke are dangerous. They are purposefully filled with outright poisons to hook them and keep them addicted.

Say, it never existed, the tobacco industry. If someone wanted to create that industry today and came to the US and pitch it as a product, do you think it would be accepted?

@cazzie – I’m not following you, and I’m not sure anyone would like my position on this bigger issue.

Anyway, are you saying that you support this car thing? If so, do you support it because it is a step in the (right) direction of making tobacco illegal?

I don’t think a multi-billion dollar industry will ever be made illegal. That’s moon talk and downright silly. I think there is something mentally wrong with people who start smoking. Knowing what we know now, in this day and age. Anyone who smokes is on their way to becoming stinky and sick. Who in their right mind chooses that?

OMFG! Really!? I don’t even smoke, but I am a proponent of smokers’ rights. It’s their kid to fuck-up as they please and adults can just leave the area.

Why don’t we go after the real polluters. Oh, yeah. Capitalism.

I like the idea of banning smoking if children are present in the vehicle. If a person is alone or with other adults, I don’t think they should be ticketed. I know many of you here say you wouldn’t smoke in a vehicle with children, but many people do, unfortunately. I’m disgusted by the amount of people I witness every day who smoke with children in their car, and many of them with their windows just barely cracked open ugh. (I grew up with smokers and had to go to school smelling like an ashtray. It sucked.)

This is just another crazy law potentially going to be introduced to stop us from driving me thinks, get us off the roads check these if you think smoking is the real issue?? :-/
The Law in the UK, is fucked up, big style; as far as civil liberties are concerned. Surely the police have better things they could be dealing with? :-/
Maybe not??

I think insurance companies should charge an extra premium to smokers. For every child the smoker has, the premium should double. In Britain, I’m not sure how to work this, since you don’t have a private insurance market.

I think that if people are smoking in a car with children, they should be fined. It shouldn’t be illegal. Just cost money for the privilege of fucking up their kids’ lungs. These fines should be used to pay for the extra health services resulting from the increased rates of emphysema and lung cancer that will result from the smoking.

Let the market take care of it. Since the market is breaking down (health insurers in the US dump insureds before they get expensive, and then they become the taxpayer’s responsibility), it is the job of govt to keep the costs attached to the appropriate payer, so that companies can make decisions using actual cost information instead of subsidized cost information.

This way smokers can pay their fair share and make their decisions in a responsible way, and not leave an extra burden for society. Society should not have to subsidize smoking. And yes, we could do this for other known health hazards, as well.

Price is a good way to attack these kinds of issues. The extra taxes on cigarettes are driving down the consumption of same.

You’re all missing the point, it seems. This is legislation that’s going to be approved – it’s a totally logical progression for all the nanny-state lovers – because it’s “for the children”. Children don’t have a choice when they’re in their parents’ car and their parents smoke. Ergo, the legislation will almost certainly be approved “for the sake of the children”.

@CWOTUS You are way too optimistic. Even the proponents of this don’t want it enacted now. It is the first punch in a very long boxing match.

@wundayatta ?

Optimistic? I think a new law will be enacted to further restrict personal liberty and you think that I’m optimistic? I suppose if the penalty being proposed were “beheading” and I was thinking, “no, they’ll water it down to confiscation of the automobile and denial of custody of the children”, then I might be “optimistic”.

I don’t like limitations on personal freedom, even for stupid or dangerous things. Not even “for the sake of the children”.

I reckon lacing every hundredth pack or so with strychnine and cyanide, or threatening to do so might work better than those pictures or any anti-smoking law. Oh.. no… wait, they already have strychnine and cyanide IN them. {palm face} and they suck it in anyway…

@cazzie – You seem to be missing the point totally this isn’t a question about stopping people smoking, it’s about removal of civil liberties and freedom of choice. If you want to discuss stopping people smoking please feel free to ask a question about it.

When people smoke around us, we smoke by default. I don’t want to smoke. Don’t I have any freedom of choice?

@cazzie – Your choice is: Don’t get in a smokers car! Respect his choice to smoke in his own private property.

I’ve had jobs where I had to travel with my boss. Who is going to protect me there?

Do you think a law would help you if your boss chose to flout it? Would you flag a cop and have your boss arrested?

@cazzie – In the UK it’s already illegal to smoke in a work vehicle, so you’d be safe there. We’re talking private vehicles, peoples private property.

Smokers don’t even realize that the poison oozes out of all their pores. Everywhere they sit they leave a trail of poison which infects other people.

I can’t imagine why it is even allowed anywhere. Smoking kills more people than more than AIDS, cocaine, heroin, alcohol, vehicular accidents, homicide and suicide combined. source

@Pandora

I know. It keeps me up at night. : ((

Lets face it. Laws such as these aren’t for children. It has everything to do with medical cost. But I am always surprised that the fat heads in government that often vote for this stuff have no problem stuffing their faces with a 2000 calorie meal in one sitting and can barely wipe their own asses. Last I heard the UK has an obesity problem with their youths. They will just continue the cycle and make thier children someday, just as overweight.
Why not simply charge tobacco companies more money for the problem of having to deal with smoker health issues. And companies like tasty cakes and candy also pick up the tab as well as alcohol. Oh, wait I know why because than these law making fat heads would have to pay more for their junk food and alcohol. How can they afford to pay for that pitcher of ale down at the pub then?
Oh, they should also add tea. Its often sweeten and the sugar rots the teeth and the tea stains them. Why not just add a sugar tax. It leads to childhood diabetes and diabetes in the elderly.
Lets not forget salt that leads to high blood pressure. Dam those chips to hell.
My point in all of this is when will it end. This sounds like a slippery slope to communism. Thats right. Let the Kremlin tell you exactly what you should and shouldn’t have.
And while they are at it, lets give the black market a boost in sales so this way legal businesses don’t have a fighting chance to succeed. You know they are just savering the idea of being able to find a way to skirt around everything a country bans. Just look at how prohibition worked out for this country. There will always be those who will find a way around everything.

@tinyfaery “It’s their kid to fuck up as they please…” This makes me so sad. Not only that there are parents who don’t care what they’re doing to their kids, but also that other people don’t care what some parents do to their kids. I could be wrong, but don’t you work with kids who have serious problems, or am I thinking of someone else? It seems odd to me that someone who works with messed up kids would make that kind of comment.

@jonsblond I grew up with smokers too. I don’t think anyone considered the effects of second-hand smoke back then, but now when I see someone sitting a car puffing away while their small children are right next to them, it just amazes me. Someone I went to high school with recently friended me on FB and as I stalked checked out his photos I saw a picture of him sitting around a table with several other people (indoors), many of them smoking, and two of the women had babies on their laps. What can you do? I was so tempted to comment on the photo, “Wow, babies and cigarettes. What a combination!” ;)

You know, if people could engage in these behaviors without affecting anyone else, then I’d be all in favor of personal responsibility. Problem is, people can’t engage in these behaviors without affecting others, and yet they seem not to care.

So the issue of personal responsibility is moot. The smokers have already dispensed with that. To protect myself from the impact of their behavior, I figure I get to do what I can, since they have already broken the unspoken social contract (i.e., that we are all responsible for ourselves). I’ll pass a law to protect myself from them. Just the same as I pass laws to protect myself from criminal behavior.

I’m sure smokers will all jump all over me for saying this, but smoking is criminal behavior. It causes other people to get sick. If we can sue a company for polluting, why not an individual? If we can get compensation for the damage someone does us, why can’t we stop them from doing the damage in the first place?

^ I absolutely agree with you here, @wundayatta.

thank you, @wundayatta for saying so eloquently what I am too embittered to say.

No.

@wundayatta – So being in your own car and smoking is affecting others? Sigh

This is NOT a debate on whether it is right or wrong to smoke!

@Mat74UK Does it look like the law is going to pass? I can’t imagine outlawing smoking in someones own car is going to pass.

All parents do damage to their children, whether they realize it, or admit it. I know that from my work with children and my own experiences. Smoking is but a trifle when I think of all the other things parents do to their kids. My grandparents (who were more like my parents) smoked around me all the time. I’m still here. And really, the air, and the water for that matter, where I live probably has more toxins than cigarette smoke.

If you want smoking laws then I want laws that forbid parents from teaching their kids religion. Parents force it upon their kids all the time and, IMO, it’s more dangerous than second hand smoke.

So since parents can’t be perfect, they should just say fuck it and let it all go to hell? Well crap, what the heck have I been working my ass off for these past 12½ years? I had no idea my weaknesses as a parent mean I have free reign to completely ignore my responsibilities to my children. After all, we want to keep you in a job, right? Because a flawed parent who tries their best is clearly on the same level as a parent who totally doesn’t give a shit.

If we applied that kind of thinking to everything in life, what would happen? I’m not a perfect driver, so screw driving laws. Yeah, I might kill someone, but whatever. People die in car accidents all the time anyway, right? I’m not a professional chef, so why bother cooking at all? Since I’m not a nutrition expert, I won’t worry myself about such things and just go to McDonald’s all the time. Other people eat there and they are still alive! I’m not a scientist, so clearly I know nothing at all about pathogens. That means I don’t need to bother washing my hands and if I cough all over you it’s not my fault because I can’t be perfect! Even doctors make mistakes, and airline pilots, and cops, and soldiers, and bus drivers. Since they can’t be perfect, let’s just throw out any standards and accountability for them too.

Wow, I feel so free! I was going to get my kids off to school, but since they are going to grow up damaged no matter what I do to them, screw it. I’ll just lock them in the basement and go to Reno for the week.

Yep, that’s exactly what I said.~ Hyperbole much? Parents are gonna do stuff to fuck up their kids and no legislation is gonna change that. And that’s a good thing.

@tinyfaery – Just so I follow…Are you saying that any and all current laws on the books that are designed to protect children should be abolished?

I don’t think this is civil rights issue. I think it’s a ‘minimising smoking’ issue and I’m always behind those. Don’t blame me you are an addict.

Jesus. If I read correctly what @tinyfaery has said – pretty clearly – it’s that “no amount of legislation” will fix all of the problems that kids can have with parents. That’s not the same as “no legislation will ever help”. At least not quite the same. So the question is “How much of your parenting do you want to be subject to police investigation and compliance?”

Yes, thank you @CWOTUS.

3rd hand smoke residuals are toxic particulate that settles onto surfaces and dangerous volatile organic compounds that saturate furniture, carpet, and coat existing dust.

In 2004, Prof. Georg Matt of San Diego University and colleagues, in a study published in the journal Tobacco Control, found that tobacco by-products were trapped in households, and found in the urine of inhabitants, for several months after smoking ceased.

Smoking in a car puts anyone at risk who sits in, or breaths in, the air of that vehicle, whether you happen to be smoking at the time or not. ‘Smoked up’ cars contain the by-products of smoking and are toxic.

I grew up in a home with smokers. I am chemically sensitive and have suffered lung and endocrine damage as a result. The packaging is right. Smoking Kills. Not only does it kill, it promotes suffering.

Yes, I am prone to hyperbole and enjoy seeing myself go on too much. I did say earlier that while I do think smoking around children should be banned, telling people what they can and can’t do in a car or home they own will never fly.

It is a pet peeve of mine to see people doing things that everyone knows to be extremely unhealthy for babies and kids. I grew up with smokers and didn’t suffer any ill effects from it that I know of at this point but “back then” it was considered acceptable. Since it’s common knowledge now that secondhand smoke increases the odds of many illnesses in children, including Sudden Infant Death Syndrome, anyone who smokes around kids is being incredible selfish. As far as I’m concerned, it’s a form of child abuse.

But just because some things in life affect children (I won’t even say “damage” because that implies a level of problems that interfere with life and I in no way think every single person is damaged) doesn’t mean it’s right to throw in the towel and put up with whatever ignorant or selfish people decide to do to their kids. Maybe not through laws, but through awareness and education. When doctors started heavily promoting the “Back to Sleep” campaign, the rate of SIDS dropped so dramatically (I think by half, but I don’t have time to look it up).